Could we possibly have a civil war?

[burythehatchet]

If so, what would be the dividing line, economic, geographic, lifestyle?
What if one side somehow ended up with all the military bases and the other side had none?
Strange thoughts for a Saturday night...

[candy331]

1. Yep, North vs South again or might say Red states vs Blue states

this time.

[burythehatchet]

3. If its geographic I think it really comes down to urban dwellers'

interests versus suburban interests. People who live in cities consume far fewer resources than do people in suburbs.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

26. It won't be that simplistic....it will actually be neighbor vs neighbor...

...house-to-house, block-to-block, town by town, etc.

This "red state/blue state" crap has no meaning whatsoever.

[MazeRat7]

2. There is nothing "Civil" about war... but I understand the context.

That being said, it feels like we may be headed that way. It feels like the sides will be drawn along idealogical boundaries of religion. After all... religion has been responsible for more war and killing than any other idea since man first learned to write.

MZr7

[Unforgiven]

4. Yep

[AuntiBush]

11. A "CULTURAL" War is more like it. Think we're already there, sadly.

Tides are changing bigtime. Gotta have hope American's are awakening.

[rwheeler31]

5. Yup

Not an icky war though. Americans do not get dirty. No one wins

[AuntiBush]

6. Shew. Didn't I think of that one after hearing of base closings

All along the north and southern coastlines. No. Not strange. Neighbors, family, pals said same thing today.

I did catch a glimpe of some protesting and these were not college kids or Du'ers. No, they were a large group of blue-collared, angry looking guys. There is only so much more this country can take.

Republicans live in those areas, too. Not good for those Rethugs in office now. Not good at all.

[yurbud]

7. hutu vs. tutsis--I don't know the dividing line, but I do know the spark

If democrats miraculously reqain either of the houses of Congress, it will have the same effect on the far right that the election of Lincoln had on the South.

The Bush people would be toast if there was any kind of serious investigation in congress of their actions. Therefore, they would take the small additional step of inciting the Jethros to violence.


I will say the dividing line will be urban versus suburban and rural.

They can cut off our food and shoot us, but we can stop making their favorite TV shows. And we can stop teaching their kids how to read, so they won't be able to find the gun store in the phone book.

[mikehiggins]

8. Nope, no way, no how

Can't happen in any recogniseable way. What we could face is a whole lot of terrorist strikes from groups way beyond the radical fringe on both sides (though I'm inclined to think the blasphemers on the right--the guys who think Jesus wants them to smite their enemies--are more likely to engage in things like that).

Car bombs, sarin attacks, more of that anthrax stuff; its all possible.

Widespread, organised, structured rebellion against the central government? No way. Most Americans across the board consider this government THEIR government, even if they think it sucks in a lot of ways. You don't get revolution until/unless the central government is not seen as legitimate by a huge percentage of the population.

Terrorists? Don't take so many.

[expatriot]

9. No... not in the foreseeable future

For all the talk abotut this country being polarized, a small percentage are actively polticized if that makes sense.

Just think about who controls the media and the common interest that corporations and the commoner have in peace and stability. No, there will be no civil war.

We are too economically integrated and self-interest rules all else. IF interstate commerce broke down, we'd have anarchy and our society would collapse. There is not that kind of polarization as to allow that. It is in everyone's interest to keep stability.

In short, society would have to collapse first in order for their to be a high enough level of civil strife and turbulence as to constitute civil war.

[CatWoman]

10. don't worry

if anyone fucks with you, I'll kick their ass

:hi:

[AuntiBush]

13. LOL! You go CatWoman.

and I'll be watching both of your backs!

:hi:

[burythehatchet]

14. you goy my back ...

I got yours ...

:hi:

[dweller]

16. well, i'm with you

but i'd like Skittles as a back up.

dp

[Cleita]

12. That would be a scary thought, considering all the nutjobs,

like the minutemen, who are armed and think they have military training just because they are associated with some paramilitary compound out in the woods.

[lala_rawraw]

15. We are having it now... but it is a modern version,

We just don't realize it yet because we think it will look the same. And it is not North and South, or blue and red... it is NeoCons vs. Americans. Simple.

We are attacking on all fronts using technology... they us and we them, and so forth. They lose a journalist or Senator to scandal and we lose one.

Modern warfare is either in the camp of missiles or psyops. As you can tell, hand to hand or fire to fire no longer makes sense (Iraq).

I imagine that things will start to get worse when either the Americans finally snap or the NeoCons just use the toys.

Imagine the price of electricity rising... poof, no more connection to other people, isolation, fear tactics, no cable, just Fox. That is modern warfare, to dismantle the mind. Or have I read 1984 one too many times?

I do get some comfort in the fact that poppy is old and he can watch all the lies he tried to cover and all the crime become the Bush family legacy before his eyes. The pride he must feel, eh?

[lala_rawraw]

17. Oh, now the Florida law makes sense...

After all, who has all of the guns? Darn it... I will have to use my shoes and throw them at people.

[kineneb]

18. Don't worry lala,

some of us kept grandpa's rifle and have an extensive collection of shoes, too. (Last time I did any target shooting, the guys took the gun away 'cause I hit all the cans.) My mother & I worship at the alter of St. Imelda (shoe stores) on frequent occasions.

[lala_rawraw]

20. Mom and I do too, small world:D n/t

[Mythsaje]

22. As I commented elsewhere recently

every liberal/progressive should own a firearm or two...else how are we going to defend ourselves against the already heavily armed theocrats?

Maybe they're right...REAL gun control is the ability to hit your target

:hide:

[queeg]

19. Bible thumpers against reality

I would dearly love to assist some of them on their personal rapture.

[enid602]

21. civil war

I don't think a potential civil war will be based on religion; despite their high profile now, the fundies don't claim a high enough percentage of the population. I do, however see a growing urban vs rural and exurban divide, particularly with regard to the use and possible rationing of petroleum. The transit-oriented cities (NY, Boston, Phillie, DC, SF, LA, Balto., etc) have the infrastructure in place (if not the current ridership) to move the masses in the event of a true energy crisis. People living in other areas will demand greater gas availability for their cars, and will be more likely to support continued foreign adventures.

[Ladyhawk]

23. The fundies are ubiquitous here in rural California.

I really don't know what to think.

[enid602]

24. had to look up ubiquitous in the dictionary; = omnipresent

I think religion has always been more prevalent in rural areas, but really don't know how many rural citizens are aligned with the RW. I do have family in central Oklahoma, however (a more religious bunch you'll never find) and they are being cruelly hit by Bush policies. The much-ballyhooed housing bubble missed them entirely, and agricultural subsidies have been pared. They continue to lose population, and have paid a gritty price in terms of Iraq casualties. As farmers, they're increasingly skeptical of this spend-and-tax-cut administration, and I can just imagine their ultimate reaction to some of the repug sex scandals which are surfacing. I feel that *'s reelection campaign was brilliant in its ability to garner so much support from rural (and so many other)groups, but I don't think they can continue to take these folks for granted.

[Ladyhawk]

25. The fundies here are hanging onto their leader, but I really think

most of them are hanging onto Bush for the same reasons they hang onto religion. I wonder what will happen if they lose faith in either one?

[Goldmund]

27. Nah.

Not anytime soon, unless something happens that totally re-arranges the marbles.

But martial law or a draft, that I can see at some time soon.

[fujiyama]

29. I agree

I think we'll stay in the state we are now for a while - that of a Cold Civil War based mainly on religious and cultural interests.

We'll likely see flare ups - terrorist attacks by the right (McVeigh/abortion clinic bomber/anthrax types)...And of course the official state sponsored terrorism, where our civil liberties are stripped, one by one.

[carpetbagger]

28. More of an E. German/Ukranian/Tiananmen Square thing.

What would likely happen is that one side would take to the streets expecting to prevail in a big way.

I can easily see what might drive the left into the streets, probably something like a repeat of the 2000 election. That would turn into a test of wills, and whether or not it succeeded would be based on (1) whether troops open fire, and (2) whether 10 million citizens would take to the streets if they did.

On the right, I don't see it quite as much. The black helicopter people mounted their rebellion in the 1990's, and people were horrified. In a post-9/11 age, I think people would demand terrorist campaigns to be dealt with harshly, although the government's decision to give Rudolph leniency shows that once the story slips to page 18, anything's game.

A nonviolent mass right-wing protest just doesn't sound like it's got legs to me. I just can't imagine the scenario that would drive the power bases, mostly religious organizations, to send large numbers of people into the streets for extended periods of time.

If there were a right-wing military coup, I think it would last a week at most. I don't think even the most hardened battalion-sized units have the cohesion to plan and execute such a revolt, and the country can be run from outside DC in the meantime, anyway. And I don't know many republicans who would like the sight of the Dow falling 5,000 points.

[applegrove]

30. I don't think we need to up the anti. It is bad enough that violent men

are in the WH. Let's not talk that way okay.

Yes - we have to fight the fight for our way of life. For standards. For human values in governance. But we fight those fights by organizing.