U.S. anger over war memo is slight

[steve2470]

http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/5401197.html

<snip>
For the most part, though, the report stands as a fresh example of today's fractured political discourse in which one person's smoking gun is another's cryptic smoke signal. Among their other frustrations, liberals are fuming because the U.S. news media have barely noted the news that set off an uproar in Europe.

The underlying reality is that the United States has moved beyond the debate over the reasons for invading Iraq, said Daniel Hofrenning, a political scientist at St. Olaf College in Northfield. Most Americans are focused on seeking positive outcomes from the war, not reason to blame the Bush administration for starting it.

"It doesn't mean President Bush gets a free pass, but the evidentiary standard has to be pretty high before he suffers from something like this," Hofrenning said. "At the end of the day, citizens are going to judge him on whether a viable democracy is established in Iraq."

A Cold War-era spy story

The Bush administration has not responded to the Democrats' inquiry, said Michigan Rep. John Conyers Jr., who initiated the request. The White House and the National Security Council also did not respond to the Star Tribune's requests for comment.

<snip>

How about that shit by Dr. Hofrenning ????? :wtf:

[Avalux]

1. NO, Dr. Hofrenning -

the underlying reality is that the media is in the hip pocket of this lying, scheming administration and there's no accountability whatsoever.

How much coverage has the memo gotten anyway? Huh???

Wonder how much Rove paid Dr. Hofrenning to provide his expert opinion. :grr:

[efhmc]

2. Same old, same old. Lies, destruction and deceit.

[Melodybe]

8. Hopeful much?

Bull Shit, this is them trying to sweep it under the rug. If it got some real media attention, people would be outraged.

This guy is full of it.

[Merlot]

3. Most Americans are just "moving on"

Most Americans are focused on seeking positive outcomes from the war, not reason to blame the Bush administration for starting it.

How do you know that, if "most Americans" haven't even heard of this memo yet?

[Fire Walk With Me]

15. Ding! The latest Jedi Mind Trick, exposed.

Telling people how to feel and aiming them away from considering the issue at all, BEFORE everyone comes to know of it.

They're stacking the deck again. They're providing people a structure of response for when the stimulus reaches them. They're treating people like pets. And worse.

It is difficult to be self-aware in this society, due to the onslaught of insanity used to perpetuate it.

[BattyDem]

4. Americans aren't angry because THEY DON'T KNOW!

I've mentioned it to several people and not one of them knew what the hell I was talking about! How can they be angry over something they haven't heard? :grr:

[erichzann]

31. No. Americans aren't angry because THEY DON'T CARE.

You could scream it from the rooftops and it wouldn't matter.

[shance]

38. THANK YOU BD****That's exactly right. The Corp Media is suppressing

the information.

[Triana]

39. EXACTLY. The complicit, corprat-owned "news" media...

...has buried and won't report the story. Americans aren't angry about a whole LOT of things because they depend too much on MSM to deliver the story to them and they are NOT GETTING the whole story!

That's it in a nutshell. They cannot get angry about lies they don't KNOW about!

[GreenArrow]

5. to accept the existence of the "memo"

is to accept that one was a fool. No one likes to be thought a fool. Better keep quiet and press on.

[Mojambo]

6. He's right

The Bush bots and a significant portion of the middle just don't give a rat's ass about the reasons anymore. Forget about whether they should, they don't.

Everyone knows Bush lied about this war. Everyone.

[OneMoreDemocrat]

32. I agree......

that everyone knows Bush lied about this war; it is so evident by now that this particular piece of evidence is just going to end up on the pile that is already in existence and be forgotten.

One more 'smoking gun' that won't count for a hill of beans when it comes to removing this Jackass from office.

Bush is indeed the 'Teflon President'.

[Carolab]

7. Do we have to launch our own MEMOGATE media campaign?

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/May05/Whitney0510.htm

A Tentative Strategy for Ending the War
by Mike Whitney
www.dissidentvoice.org
May 10, 2005

American leftists and liberals have failed to grasp the importance of Dearlove’s statement to Tony Blair and his top advisors in a secret meeting nine months before the invasion of Iraq. (Dearlove told Tony Blair that the US attack on Saddam would be “justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD.”)

Yes, the information does confirm that Bush intended to attack Iraq from the very beginning without any compelling evidence of WMD or connections with al Qaida. And, yes, this does only reinforce what many of us suspected from the very onset: that the justification for war was built entirely on lies and demagoguery. Maybe that’s why so many people are dismissing the memo with a shrug of the shoulders like its yesterday's news. But, the Dearlove memo is much more than that. It is the first piece of incontrovertible evidence that a criminal conspiracy took place at the highest levels of government to lead the nation to war. It’s easy to understand why the mainstream media has concealed this story as much as possible. The circulation of this information has the power to erode public support for the occupation and end the war.

We need to remember that over 50% of the American public still believes that Saddam was either working with al Qaida, had WMD, or was directly involved in 9-11. In other words, support for the war is entirely predicated on false information. The only way to dispel these commonly held illusions is by producing concrete evidence to the contrary. We now have that proof in the Dearlove memo.

We’re basically engaged in an information war, and we need to take the initiative. We have to accept responsibility for getting our own message out and abandon the crazy notion that the corporate media will bow to public pressure. The media is the most powerful weapon in the imperial arsenal and the people in charge are not going to provide access for an effort that runs counter to their basic interests.

Now that we have hard evidence of a conspiracy we need to recognize that the truth is not enough. We have to develop the strategies that will take that grain of truth to where it is needed most: to the people who still support the war.

So, how do we ensure that every American knows the content of this one damning document? How do we use the truth as means for ending the occupation of Iraq?

1) Coordination: We need a coordinated strategy to access whatever media is available to the antiwar public (mainly web sites and leftist journals) and ask them to provide a small section of front page space to alert their readers to the Dearlove memo and a link to its content. This should serve as a nagging reminder that we now have definite proof that the war was the result of deception. Left-leaning radio shows, like Air America and Democracy Now! should work up a similar plan.

2) Language is fundamental to the dissemination of ideas. We need a concise two or three word euphemism that summarizes the details of the memo so that it becomes an integral and unforgettable part of a national campaign. The administration has been very effective in using language (“preemption”, “silver bullet”, “unlawful combatant”, “war on terror”) to crystallize their hard-right ideology and make it palatable for the masses. We need a similar strategy to spread the facts. Perhaps, “the Dearlove memo” or “the smoking gun memo.”

3) There must be a steady, deliberate approach to revealing the contents of the memo. Dearlove's comments should be repeated over and over to maximize public saturation.

4) We must take our message to the other side. Right wing radio provides a forum that invites infiltration; it’s just a matter of dropping a few words about the memo that might provoke listener interest. They also have web pages where anyone can jot down their thoughts. We should be willing to enter the discussions on right-wing blogs and supply the details of Dearlove’s communiqué to their readers. There’s a direct relationship between support for the war and knowledge of the facts. The truth is our greatest asset.

The success of the antiwar, anti-imperial movement depends on our ability to disseminate information beyond the corrupted grip of the mainstream press. The Dearlove memo provides the first real challenge to alternative media to step up to the plate, coordinate its efforts, and deliver the goods. I believe it is still possible to get the message out through unconventional channels, and in doing so bring about a speedy end to the war in Iraq and a stunningly blow to the media octopus that’s strangling our democracy.

It can be done, with an intelligent coordinated attack that pools our collective talents, provides a clear message and repeats that message persistently from every vantage point until every American citizen knows the real truth about our criminal involvement in Iraq.

The war will only end when support for the war ends at home. We have a new weapon in that struggle: the truth. Let’s use it.

[bpilgrim]

9. the fucking M$MWs haven't FUCKING informed the American people... yet

i'm sure they'll get round to it, though... check back with us then :evilgrin:

peace

[ComerPerro]

10. There are three kinds of people in the US, and none of them are outraged

Theres the politically active liberals like us at DU, there are moderates who are generally uninterested, and there are right wing extremists who fall all over themselves to kiss Bush's ass.



The middle doesn't know about it, and they don't care to know.

The sycophantic right doesn't want anyone to find out about it, and they just think its a lie.

And the left knows about it, but isn't really suprised at all.





Or, at least, thats how I see things.

[Melodybe]

12. I think you're wrong, people know Bush is a liar and it bothers them.

Talk to a republican lately, none of them are happy with W these days.

[ComerPerro]

16. Honestly, I don't give a shit if they are unhappy with him now

The fact is, they voted for him. Twice. Nothing has changed between then and now. We all knew he was a lying sleazeball. We know about the lies, the profiteering, the manipulation of intel.

They didn't care. They accused us of slander and called us unAmerican.

We needed to just be quiet and support the president.

I don't care if they are upset now. They supported this, they helped it happen.

And, by the time November 2006 rolls around, they are going to fall for the same shit again unless they are given a dramatic wake-up call.

But where will it come from?


Honestly, I know a lot of conservatives (I live in KS, for Christ's sake!) and I have not talked to one who would acknowledge that Bush lied about WMD. Not one. And many of them are fairly moderate.

[leesa]

33. And they would vote for him again. They are master enablers.

[Catt03]

11. Ha...it's only on the left blogs and forums

and they can ask for an explanation from Bush until Hell freezes over..
they won't get it and nothing else will happen

[dflprincess]

13. Let's discuss how the Star Tribune has covered the story

I believe their coverage consisted of one fairly small story stuck back on page A10. Meanwhile, in the past couple weeks, they've treated us to front page stories about how much it costs to go to prom and a local theater group that received a Tony nomination.

I think I'll call the readers' representative tomorrow and vent.

[spindoctor]

14. What do you expect?

Half the Americans still believe that Saddam Husein was connected to 9/11.

More than half of the Americans believe that you cannot question a war once our troops are involved.

Argh!

[Fire Walk With Me]

17. Always ask them why Veteran's benefits are routinely cut

If our troops are so precious to the government (hey, they gave Halliburton a 72 Million dollar bonus, a BONUS, while cutting Veteran's benefits...)

[Don1]

18. Stop making up statistics

"More than half of the Americans believe that you cannot question a war once our troops are involved."

That's simply not true of Americans. It is true for those you see in the media and it is true for both the Dem and Repub Congressmen. That's why the Senate just voted 100-0 to add the $80 billion to Iraq war funds. Even Kennedy said it was for the "soldiers."

The American people do not buy it, though. That's why in polls, the vast majority say the war is not worth it.

[spindoctor]

21. Gotta root for the home team

I don't understand it, but I see this way of thinking in intelligent, educated people who I otherwise respect. Even under registered Democrats.

I wasn't trying to make up statistics, but more than half is a _careful_ estimate.

[Don1]

25. Stop the hand-waving

You said, "I wasn't trying to make up statistics, but more than half is a _careful_ estimate."

You think it is careful, but I do not. These are matters of opinion and neither of us should be relying on hand-waving. Here are facts that are evidence of the opposite view of what you are saying. Stop making up statistics whether or not you think they are _careful_ and please provide evidence!

"Surprisingly, while policy-makers are afraid to have a real discussion about leaving Iraq, a majority of Americans have come to the conclusion that it's time for the troops to come home. A Washington Post-ABC News poll conducted April 21-24 found that 58 percent of Americans say that the United States has gotten bogged down in Iraq, 60 percent don't think that Iraq will have a stable, democratic government a year from now and 54 percent say the war with Iraq was not worth fighting.

The majority of Americans and Iraqis want to end the occupation."
http://www.zogby.com/search/ReadClips.dbm?ID=11322

[spindoctor]

26. woop-dee-doo

We're down to 54% now?

Wow! That's good news!

And boy was I off with my estimate.

[Don1]

28. It's not "woop-dee doo"

The point is that you should not berate the majority and you should not give up hope so quickly. It is not the people who are at fault here, but those in charge. Let us put the blame where it belongs--on the political institutions of this country. And let us together, you and I, do something about it.


Peace

[spindoctor]

29. Let's be realistic

I am not without hope (nor hopeless), but I don't think there is such a thing as a smoking gun at this point, with the possible exception of a recorded conversation between the President and the VP gloating about how they bamboozled the people of the US.
Half the country already knew that the war was based on a pile of lies, and the other half of the country takes their allegiance to the flag a little bit too serious.

I do not comprehend the mindset of the other half. Obviously nobody else does either, because if we truly knew how these people reasoned, we would have more to show for after four years in this tragedy.

The Republican publicity machine seems to know exactly how these people think based on their success rate. Should we blame the Republicans for doing their best to win the elections and being better at that game than our guys? Hell no.
We like to think that all Republicans are part of the so-called Christian Right, or are ignorant southern hillbillies, but the simple fact is that by underestimating the majority of Republican voters, we were unable to defeat a President who so far has established exactly nothing.

And don't give me that crap about election fraud in Ohio. Sure there were irregularities and foul play, but it shouldn't even have come down to one state. We should have won these elections by a landslide. The whole frickin' country should have been painted blue with the possible exception of Nebraska.

Unfortunately, them and us are from different planets. We are from Mars, they are from Klingon. Unless we produce some kind of magic bullet, things will have to get a lot worse before we see a significant change in public opinion.

It is the people who are to blame here, because it is the people that empowered the criminals that occupy the White House. It is the people who support the war because "our team" is playing in it. It is the people who refuse to revolt under a growing oppression because they are too busy surviving in a society that can barely maintain itself.
I don't blame the Christian Right. May God forgive them. I don't blame the aristocracy. May their wealth forever grow. I don't blame the ignorant. May they be protected from themselves.

I do blame the people who should know better. What are they thinking? They are the ones who tip the scale in favor of the bloodshed we engaged in. They have blood on their hands from the hundreds of thousands innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan for supporting the wars. They stole the food and medicine out of the mouths of our parents and grandparents when they supported the Medicare reform. They will be the ones that will slave us until our dying day when they support social security reforms. They trample on our sick for not demanding health care for all. They stupefy our children for not demanding proper education. They maintain the segregation in our country, not by color of skin but by economic status. That the bottom of the food chain happens to be made up of blacks, Hispanics and ugly people is just a lucky coincidence.

I am not disillusioned. Notice below that I support one of the most unlikely candidates in the 2004 primaries. I have hope that one day we will reach a common level of enlightenment, of fucking ci-vi-li-zation, that puts us at least at the level of other western countries. I have hope, but realistically Kucinich will never be President and realistically it will take an even graver moment in history before a significant majority in this country will stand up for what is RIGHT.

[Don1]

30. More on the "Moral Majority"

I agree with about half of what you're saying. Let's get a few things straight, though.

First, this isn't about us-versus-them or red-versus-blue or the-half-versus-the-other-half stats you mention. Only 60% of the eligible population voted this last Presidential election, regardless of how the media tries to paint it. This means that approx. 30% voted for Kerry, approx. 30% voted for Bush, some voted for alternative parties, and approx. 40% voted for NO-ONE.

In other words, the 30% Republican vote is not a MANDATE. Furthermore, and this is IMPORTANT, it does not mean that the majority of people is a bunch of screwballs. The Republicans are a screwball minority. Even the Dems are a minority.

You can also, by the way, see this statistic backed up by a 2004 Gallup poll. 32% of people considered themselves Dems. 28% considered themseves Republicans. 38% considered themselves Independents.

The biggest voting bloc can't stand the two-party system or what it has to offer. So when you say things like that "realistically Kucinich will never be President," then yes, you did give up hope. You fell for the media lie. You fell for the hype of the Dem party, too, and its corrupt electoral system.

You say that you do not blame the ignorant. That's fine, but you lay no blame at the feet of the people who cause ignorance and push misinformation. You say that they are just trying to win elections. No, sir. They are trying to make money off dead Iraqi kids. It's the corporate media who always makes the elections look like a contest between two majority groups (when they are really second-rate political minority groups). And it's the corporate media who does not mention the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi civilians.

The majority of Americans are against the war, but the two-party system chose to give only pro-war candidates. The corporate media machine lied to us, saying those two candidates were the only electable ones and only showed their debates. A bigger bloc than either minority party refuses to vote for the stale, corrupt two-party system.

Most people are not at fault here, like you keep claiming. It's the system. We need to organize and do something about this corrupt system. We need to show the power of the anti-war majority. We need to galvanize the anti-establishment Independents. We the people need to reclaim our democracy from the corrupt, corporate elite. From there, we will see better choices for elections, like Kucinich.

Kucinich is not hopeless. If he is the best that progressives have to offer, then I, for one, will support him and I will not back down.

[spindoctor]

37. percentage points, lousy joints and all the glitter we can use

A 60% turnout is historically high (http://www.fairvote.org/turnout/preturn.htm) with averages hovering around 55%. However, it is naive to think that the "silent majority" is not equally polarized. It is also presumptuous to think that they hold any kind of key to success, since historically there has never been a candidate that will rally 70% or more of the people.

In countries with a multi-party system (like my native Holland), we see not only that the vast majority of the voters is still attracted to two (or three at most) parties, but also that turnouts are equally low if not lower because coalition government leads eventually to more compromised decisions anyway.

I do distinguish between campaign makers and policy makers. Where the success of policy may be subjective, the success of campaign is very measurable and I for one will give "credit" where credit is due.

BUT...campaign makers can only tip the scale. The critical mass of political supporters is made up of loyalists (e.g. fundies vs unions) who will rarely if ever swing their vote.

Having said all that, I stick to my accusation of the majority. And in that, I include the people who did not bother to vote for whatever reason. Obviously, the causes I mentioned above did not matter enough to them.

Although it is my sincere wish that the policy makers will someday be held accountable for their crimes against humanity and the US, the people who empowered them, with the exception of those who are in traditional allegiance with the Republican party, are guilty by association.

Finally, I only brought up Kucinich to demonstrate my faith in good causes. However, as the saying goes: Hope is no a strategy. I don't have the illusion that the US is ready for Kucinich, but maybe if we can grow his support we can increase his influence and some of it might rub off on more prominent candidates like Hillary Clinton :eyes:

[Don1]

45. Empirical Evidence is Now Glitter?

"A 60% turnout is historically high (http://www.fairvote.org/turnout/preturn.htm ) with averages hovering around 55%. However, it is naive to think that the "silent majority" is not equally polarized. It is also presumptuous to think that they hold any kind of key to success, since historically there has never been a candidate that will rally 70% or more of the people.

In countries with a multi-party system (like my native Holland), we see not only that the vast majority of the voters is still attracted to two (or three at most) parties, but also that turnouts are equally low if not lower because coalition government leads eventually to more compromised decisions anyway."

No, sir. According to the latest polls available to me, 62% of the US population was in favor of the formation of a third party. It is, therefore, not presumptuous to say that Americans are fed up with the two-party system.

By the way, I rely on empirical evidence, while your arguments about non-existent "_careful_ estimates" are presumptuous. This is why I asked you to stop hand-waving and making up statistics. You never admitted that you were wrong about making up numbers by the way.

[Melodybe]

22. You're wrong, seriously get out there and talk to people

the're more informed than you give them credit for.

THEY WANT US TO THINK THAT NO ONE CARES!!! In case you hadn't noticed everything is a total mind fuck with them, and statements like this play right into their hands.

Everyone is stupid, no one cares.

Thanks Eeyore but you need to stop helping them by spreading this garbage. ITS NOT TRUE!!

I am loaning Fahrenheit 9/11 to quite a few newly interested republicans, for the first time since it came out they are actually open minded enough to watch it.

I highly recommend that you loan it to anyone that you know that would not have watched it before. The oil connections exposed in F9/11 will connect so many dots for those who are not in the know.

Be part of tholution not part of the problem.
Peace.

[spindoctor]

27. I am and I do

And I noticed that even informed people simply don't want to hear.

I hate to say it, but that's what we're up against.

And don't get me wrong. I am not suggesting we stop ringing the bell, but every war has its turning point in public opinion and we are still a far cry away from that...in my humble opinion and experience.

[AndyTiedye]

19. "Moved Beyond the Debate"? What Debate? There Never Was a Debate!

Among their other frustrations, liberals are fuming because the U.S. news media have barely noted the news that set off an uproar in Europe.

Actually, that's pretty close to the top of the list. The media has
treated it as a non-event, just like any other news that is unfavorable to the regime.

The underlying reality is that the United States has moved beyond the debate over the reasons for invading Iraq,

America never really had that debate in the first place, because only
the regime's side of it ever got presented in the media, and that
continues to be the case to this day.

Most Americans are focused on seeking positive outcomes from the war, not reason to blame the Bush administration for starting it.

No, that is what the media is telling us to we want.


"It doesn't mean President Bush gets a free pass,

Yes, it does. Just as he has gotten for every single thing he has
screwed up since first stealing office. The first rule of American
"journalism" today is "Bush can do no wrong".

but the evidentiary standard has to be pretty high before he suffers from something like this

Certainly far, far higher than for any Democrat.

"At the end of the day, citizens are going to judge him on whether a viable democracy is established in Iraq."

He could not be failing much more miserably at that, but of course
he isn't being judged by his failures in Iraq, he is being judged by
what FauxNews reports about Iraq.

http:/

[zippy890]

35. You are square on!

Well put.

and I would add that we now have some damning evidence - of both very serious wrongdoing by the president

AND

serious negligence by the media

[Jade Fox]

42. Excellent post!

Even if people don't care anymore why this war was started (they do!)
History will certainly want to know, and will notice little things like this\
memo.

[devilgrrl]

20. But, but ... the runaway bride/evil father from hell stories are important

:sarcasm:

Of course there isn't any anger!

[RBHam]

23. typical

apologists for Imperialism

[Zorra]

24. Um, MSM just began covering this like yesterday. Many Americans

didn't even know about this issue until yesterday, and most still don't know about it.

[The Time is Now]

36. If a president lies to start a war...

I wrote the following letter to Bill Keller, Executive Editor of the New York Times. I did a check on the Time's web site and could find no articles dedicated to this story.

My new slogan:

Don't be the silent majority.

Dear Mr. Keller,

We live in a changed world. Part of the change is in the fact that the major news media no longer report stories critical of the ruling party. Why is this? We used to hear that the media has a crucial role to play in a democracy, namely, to inform us about the activities of our government, so that people can make reasoned choices. I can still remember a time when this is what the media did. Don't you? It was the media that brought to light the scandals of the Nixon administration, and the media that let us in on Bill Clinton's improprieties. It was your very own paper that published the "Pentagon Papers" concerning the way the war in Vietnam had been covertly planned and illegally carried out.

There are similar documents about the Iraq war that have come to light in England. Do you know not of them? If this kind of information mattered with regard to the war in Vietnam, why is it not important in the present circumstances?

You can read all about it here:
www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8834.htm

You'll find links to articles and documents that show that the British government was aware months before the build-up to the war that the Bush administration was dead set on invading Iraq. It also shows that no one on either side of the Atlantic believed that there was any clear-cut justification for this action, and so causes would need to be invented.

I would think, Mr. Keller, that that is a story. I could even imagine that to be one told with big banner headlines. I could even imagine that it might run for days or weeks, maybe even like the runaway bride story.

That our government duped the population to war, well, that once would have been a big story. But the world and the media have changed, Mr. Keller. Do we still have a free press? Frankly, I don't believe it, but you would, in fact, know.

Please tell me: Are some vital truths no longer Fit To Print?

[leesa]

34. It's because this "christian country" thinks the idea of stealing someone

elses oil to keep us fat and happy is just fine. Christian values, my ass!

[Solly Mack]

40. ANY American that has moved beyond the LIES for the illegal

invasion/war/occupation is an American that is part of the problem.

No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

PART OF THE PROBLEM.

If you're willing to let the lies and the fraud go, you deserve every bad thing that comes from it.

Don't go fucking whining about anything Bush does if you think it's time to move beyond the lies that got us into an illegal war...because anyone that does think that, doesn't have a problem with Bush.

[steve2470]

41. For what it's worth, the NY Times on May 2nd printed something

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/05/02/news/blair.php

The original NYT article is in their paid archive now, but the link above will take you there also. However, since May 2nd, the NYT has been silent.

[kentuck]

43. These suckers would have given Hitler a pass...

I am convinced.

[Mojorabbit]

44. I think that there are a ton of people

out there who have no idea that this memo has come out. They get their news from the tv during dinner.
What is needed is someone like MOVE ON to do a commercial stating that Bush lied to the country re the reason for this war.
I would contribute a bunch of money for an effort like this.

[femme.democratique]

46. "citizens are going to judge him on whether a viable democracy..."

...is established in Iraq."

And we all know that ain't gonna happen - Ayatollah Khomeni here we come!

[mmonk]

47. Everyone who is in love with the

fantasy of empire by force says the same thing (whether left or right). But I disagree on the premise because I know, expecially here in the red states where Limbaugh has a big mark, they don't have a clue (it's not that they wouldn't care if they knew it was fact).