Who is the better candidate for Liberals, Dean or Clark?

[Must_B_Free]

Dean was called a liberal, but I read a piece that showedthat his record is far from it.

Clark is a military commander, which makes him somewhat antithetical as a liberal leader, but he has Michael Moore's endorsement.

So which one should I choose to back?

(I am a radical Liberal who loves Kucinch and Gore.)

[knight_of_the_star]

1. Clark

Although my neutrality is suspect on this issue, I would advise going to draftwesleyclark.com and going to the issues section for a full summary. While he is pro-guns, the rest of his platform is pretty in line with the, to quote Dr. Dean, "Democratic wing of the Democratic party".

[Brucey]

2. Assuming either would be elected, then the issue would be

which one could get a liberal agenda accepted and passed? I think Clark has lots of middle-of-the-road friends, who might follow his lead, but Dean has more charisma and Clinton-esque ability to get compromise and action. So, probably Dean.

[blm]

3. I think Clark is a liberal-leaning moderate.

From all I've read.

He was one of the few who backed up Kerry who was advocating for gays to be allowed to serve openly in the military at a time when few politicians would stick their necks out like that.

[goobergunch]

4. Not enough info on Clark yet

The issues page makes him a fairly typical Dem.

[knowledgeispower]

5. I have the same question

I guess it really depends on whether you agree with the Clinton plan (balancing the budget) and which candidate you think can do it best. Dean has made it clear he wants to balance the budget, and I assume that Clark will do the same since he is apparently "Clinton's guy" (sorry if that offends you Clark supporters).

Me personally, I'm not even sold on this whole balancing the budget thing. It was the best thing Clinton did during EIGHT YEARS IN OFFICE and look how quickly the Republicans threw us right back into an even bigger deficit. It simply won't work, because the Repugs will always find ways to enact tax cuts and raise military spending to bust the budget. If you could guarantee that the Dems could have 20 years in office I MIGHT think it was a good idea, but with only 4 to 8 the Repugs can undo any good far quicker than the Dems can do that good.

[wuushew]

6. Micheal Moore is not God, his endorsement is one of many.

-

[sham]

22. I agree with you on that.

But there hasn't even been an endorsement from Moore. See post #21.

[Enraged American]

7. I'm already sick of Clark.

AP and several others agree with me: Clark is no good. The point of the election is to draw attention to issues other than "national security." Clark appeals to only those who think their cars are going to get hijacked on their way to Walmart (the fact that these folks could help Clark win the election is irrelevant here). Clark has no position on any issues and pussyfoots on free trade. He's the Arnold Schwarzenegger of our party.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

10. Christ, Have Some Patience

He's already said he'd have positions out in a few weeks.

Clark will CRUSH Shrub on foreign policy, while all of the other candidates except perhaps Kerry and Graham will have problems. Meanwhile, while Clark is nullifying that classically Thug advantage and turning it to his own, he can ALSO crush Shrub on domestic policy. You act like it's one or the other; with Clark, it can be both.

He's the Arnold Schwarzenegger of our party.

Thank you for discrediting yourself.

:eyes:

DTH

[Pepperbelly]

11. geez ...

Do you really think that you are helping your candidate with your constant, irrational bashing of another candidate? If this is the quality of support and supporters Dennis gets, it makes me re-think him completely. This sort of constant crap will make it a difficult chore to pull a lever for your boy if he somehow manages to get the nomination.

[tjdee]

12. Has Arnold Schwarzenneger commanded all of NATO Europe's troops?

The amount of disrespect toward Clark is ridiculous.

If he *were* just an actor like Arnold Schwarzenneger, he'd get more respect around DU.

[IranianDemocrat]

14. Kucinich, Dean or Green Right?

Sorry to use Centrist's phrase but you extremist wackos are going to give us another McGovern-like election.

[roughsatori]

18. Clark or Bush right?

See how silly that is. Even if it may be true.

[imhotep]

8. neither

they are both politicians.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

9. I Think They're Both Left-of-Center

And similar on many, many positions.

The difference as I see it is that Clark will have the gravitas necessary on foreign policy to defend his decisions, while Dean will be constantly second-guessed by the Thugs.

On domestic policy, Dean is more experienced, but that's also an area where you can rely on advisors more easily without looking weak, and also an area where Congress will play a large role.

The Presidency, as head of the Executive Branch, plays more of an indispensable role in setting foreign policy. While the Presidency has certainly emerged as more and more important in recent decades in setting domestic policy as well, again, I think Congress and advisors (particularly the Cabinet) is also critical there.

DTH

[DoveTurnedHawk]

13. Clark Is Military, But ALSO Liberal

You appear to have a view of military folks as conservative and/or warlike. Would a warlike person say this?

"The highest calling of the armed forces is not to wage war, but to prevent war." -- General Wesley K. Clark

DTH

[IranianDemocrat]

15. Definitely Clark is more liberal than Doctor Dean.

.

[stickdog]

17. Really? On what issues??? (NT)

[stickdog]

16. When did Moore endorse Clark?

Go to a Clark meet up. Read Clark's website and blog. Watch Clark debate and speak to a crowd.

Go to a Dean meet up. Read Dean's website and blog. Watch Dean debate and speak to a bigger crowd.

Dean's candidacy is a historic, organic, iterative grassroots endeavor. Clark's candidacy has just started.

If Dean's army of small activist contributors and insurgent, outsider appeal pulls off the ultimate political success, I think American democracy will be forever changed for the better. I think the stage will be set for even more progressive candidates to run with the empowering small contributor campaign paradigm that Dean, his staff and his supporters are building.

But you have to make up your own mind, right?

[sham]

21. He didn't.

He urged him to get into the race, said that he likes him, but there was no endorsement. The poster did not read the entire Moore article.

Michael Moore to Wesley Clark: Run!
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?messageDate=2003-09-12
This is not an endorsement. For me, it's too early for that. I have liked Howard Dean (in spite of his flawed positions in support of some capital punishment, his grade "A" rating from the NRA, and his opposition to cutting the Pentagon budget). And Dennis Kucinich is so committed to all the right stuff.

[Rowdyboy]

19. Neither is particularly liberal...

Clark a little moreso than Dean. Kucinich and the war guys (Kerry Edwards, Gephart) are about the same as Dean ideologically-Graham may be a touch more conservative.

There's really not a lot of ideological differences between the candidates. We turn molehills into mountains here, because we care so passionately, but most Americans could care less. If the election is held and Bush can be beat, almost any Democrat could beat him. If the economy soars, Iraq settles down and there are no more 9/11's then a Jesus/Superman ticket will lose to */Cheney.

[gully]

20. There actually almost identical on the issues?

But, I prefer someone who governed over someone who oversaw battles.

[OneBlueSky]

23. I was starting to like Clark, until I read this . . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=11938

hanging himself with his own words, imo . . . the positions expressed in this article are pretty much identical to those of Joe Lieberman . . .

[BurtWorm]

24. Yes, that article troubles me.

It makes Clark look like an opportunist who dropped his criticisms about the war when he thought his side "lost." I don't like it. It's stopped my Clarkward drift in the last day dead in its tracks.