Baptist news article snippets on NC church issue

[The Straight Story]

North Carolina church at center of national controversy over politics & church discipline
....

"If a person is living in a homosexual lifestyle, then they are going against the clear teachings of Scripture and they should be disciplined in order to keep the witness of the church pure and hopefully to help them understand the gravity of their situation with the Lord," he said. "But there's a massive difference between living a lifestyle -- either in homosexuality or adultery or the drug culture -- that is clearly contradictory to Scripture and exercising a voting decision that may be erroneous or poor judgment. But erroneous and poor judgment should never lead to being removed from church membership."

....

"I don't know the particulars of the situation, but I certainly acknowledge the right of each local autonomous congregation to decide the requirements for membership in their church," Land told BP. "However, I would also add that the right to determine membership does not always mean that it is exercised in a correct fashion. I believe it would never -- never -- be appropriate or acceptable for a local Baptist church to decide membership based upon how a person votes.

....

"They need to be at church more than anybody else to hear why they need to change their mind," Land said of a person voting against a marriage amendment. "If you remove them from membership then you've lost the opportunity to share with them and to help them understand that they need to strongly support traditional marriage."

....


http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=20751

[Kerrytravelers]

1. "They need to be at church more than anybody else to hear why they need to

change their mind,"



That has to be the most condescending comment. Unbelievable. Perhaps these people should actually read their Bible in it's entirity instead of listening to hate-mongers. Then they might need to change THEIR minds.




AGGGGGGGGGGGGG
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[FreedomAngel82]

5. And how do they know they support the same agenda?

Just because one votes democratic doesn't mean anything. Here in my town they interviewed one of the women who was kicked out and she said the main reason she votes democratic is because of their economic policies. Look at Harry Reid also. He's pro-life. Oh and Jesus never talked about homosexuality. I was watching "West Wing" last night and season two in episode one (maybe two) Bartlet was addressing some radio people and this woman was in there who made a false claim that she was a psychologist by calling herself Doctor when she had a degree in English. She said homosexuality was an abomonation and used the Bible as her source. Bartlet snapped back at her and said how he wanted to sell her daughter in slavery etc. I think with these people the best argument is as follows:
If a parent wanted to sell their children into slavery is that right?
If a child disobey's their parent can they stone them to death?

The Bible mentions both of those. They also need to change the pledge from "liberty and justice to all" to "liberty and justice for straight white/men women who claim to be Christians."

[Maat]

2. Thanks for the post.

I was waiting for this one, because I love reading the RR sites and keeping up on how they spin things.


I see some spin here. They don't come out and say that the expelled congregants state that the express reason was who they voted for.

Also, did Land just say that it was basically o.k. to discipline (e.g. kick them out of the church) for being gay? Stunning.

[Hekate]

3. I see they still don't think a vote should be private, do they?

As for the (new) message, it's simply a version of the old adage to "hate the sin, love the sinner" and the saying that "a church is supposed to be a hospital for sinners, not a museum of plaster saints."

Yeesh. But they surely do believe that everything members do (and, apparently, think) should be open for public discussion -- no doubt in the pure spirit of Christian love.

Wonder if they'll lose any members over this latest intrusion, or if everyone will simply drink the kool-aid that's been substituted for the communion grape juice and close ranks.

Hekate

[Maat]

4. Guys ... somebody wrote a commentary about the incident ..

over there also.

You have to check this out.

'(BP)--Chan Chandler is one of my students. You may have heard of him. He is the pastor of the East Waynesville Baptist Church in Waynesville, N.C. According to the Associated Press, Chan ousted all the members of the church who would not support George W. Bush in the 2004 presidential election.

Now, if that were true, that would be one sensational story. The real sensational story, though, has been the media’s frenzy over supposed evidence of the religious right’s imposition of a theocracy in America."

http://www.bpnews.net/bpcolumn.asp?ID=1823

It is by a Waylan Owens.

Wow, what rationalization! What fantasy!

[Wheezy]

8. I am a Christian...

...and I think I'm gonna puke.

This guy is delusional.

[The Icon Painter]

9. Good Heavens

What a sophist! And has anyone ever managed to find out why so many of these fundamentalist idiots always seem to have what we used to call 'shit-eating' grins on their disgusting faces? Or why they all seem to look like late-night television used car salesmen? *shudders* What truly dreadful people they are!

[Lars39]

6. Here's the contact info for Southern Baptist's bpnews:

http://www.bpnews.net/contactus.asp

[atre]

7. I'm sorry, but I find that spiritually repulsive

"If a person is living in a homosexual lifestyle, then they are going against the clear teachings of Scripture and they should be disciplined in order to keep the witness of the church pure and hopefully to help them understand the gravity of their situation with the Lord," he said. "But there's a massive difference between living a lifestyle -- either in homosexuality or adultery or the drug culture -- that is clearly contradictory to Scripture and exercising a voting decision that may be erroneous or poor judgment. But erroneous and poor judgment should never lead to being removed from church membership."

The author offers justification for forced expulsion from membership, and offers two grounds for this opinion:

1) "Keep the witness of the church pure" - The Bible unequivocally informs us that the church can never be "pure" because "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).

2) "Help them understand the gravity of their situation with the Lord" - Gravity? That's interesting. I've never seen any textual justification for the modern conservative Christian stratification of sins - a stratification in which sexual sin trumps all, including the love of money (which the Apostle Paul describes as "the root of all evil" in Timothy 6:10). But I do know that the Bible devotes 4+ books to matters of social justice and less than a half dozen verses to the issue at the forefront here. I would like to know where the Southern Baptist Convention has been on the issue of economic oppression, and why it has thrown its lot in with persons who are as devoted to dollar as they are to their purported God. Matthew 6:24.

Regardless, if the gift of salvation is open to any person who accepts Jesus Christ, as we are explicitly informed (John 3:16), then excluding persons from the church is the equivalent to leading persons away from the Lord, which is a grave sin indeed.

[BeFree]

10. Good stuff, atre

Indeed, judging anyone to not be worthy of approaching the Lord in his own house is about as bad as one can do. Who made these people God?

Ya see, these are the reasons I don't go to those churches, they make it to be a big hassle, and that's not what God would want, now would she?

[chomskysright]

11. wow, he talks like a politician: says nothing and tries to mean a lot...

"I don't know the particulars of the situation, but I certainly acknowledge the right of each local autonomous congregation to decide the requirements for membership in their church," Land told BP. "However, I would also add that the right to determine membership does not always mean that it is exercised in a correct fashion. I believe it would never -- never -- be appropriate or acceptable for a local Baptist church to decide membership based upon how a person votes.

"I believe that preachers and pastors have a responsibility and an obligation to preach what the Bible says about moral, social public policy issues and to encourage people to vote, and when they vote, to vote their values, their beliefs and their convictions. But the decision about the candidate must remain part of the individual responsibility of the priesthood of all believers. A person's casting of a ballot should never be a cause for church discipline."

[Maat]

14. Ah, now I remember ...

remember they (the Southern Baptist Convention) had that ivotevalues.com or ivotevalues.org site.

They strode right up to the legal line - not explicitly mentioning a candidate, but I did read one article in which the author said, basically, that he did not know how one could vote for Kerry given his stances on the issues.

Maybe I should have alerted au.org (American United for Separation of Church and State) when I read the article; but I did not have much hope that the Southern Baptist Convention (the administrative body of the Southern Baptist churches) would ever receive any discipline under this administration.

[chomskysright]

12. & Baptist Press in Nashville: where Frist had his big display 2 weeks ago

901 Commerce Street
Nashville, TN 37203
Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

[Pushed To The Left]

13. It's time for that church to pay their taxes!

It looks to me like they have crossed the line between church and state. Time to pay up!

[Maat]

15. Americans United for Separation of Church and State comes through ....

check out their site ... Rev. Barry Lynn, JD sent a letter to the IRS requesting investigation.

[Pushed To The Left]

16. I recently joined them!

I am going to an Americans United presentation on May 22nd and the Democratic Meetup group I attend will have a speaker from Americans United this month! I'm pumped!:bounce: