Only thing that matters is BlackBoxVoting, everything else is distraction

[billbuckhead]

BBV=end of democracy It's that simple. Why isn't the Democratic machine more up in arms about this? If I don't hear something soon from them, I must assume collusion or submission.

[skylarmae]

1. you are right! What are we going to do?

I don't have too much confidence in Carter and Baker. James Baker I do not trust at all.

[havocmom]

7. Work like hell at your county level to keep the damned machines out

And sign up to be an election judge! Stalin was right about counting the votes. We need to get polling places full of honest Dem workers.

[oldtime dfl_er]

20. James Baker is part of the problem

and can never be part of the solution.

www.cafepress.com/showtheworld

[havocmom]

2. Yep

But there are lots of folks even here who just cannot face that fact.
How many 08 posts per week?

The posts that really set my teeth on edge are the ones about impeachment! Jeeze, what are they smokin and where can I get some?

[halobeam]

3. Yeah, when do we address this FULL STEAM AHEAD??

When it's too late, AGAIN?

What do you think is the best way to get people involved? I belong to BBV, but I have some extra time and would do more, except I don't know what TO do.

I have heard so many people say they don't know HOW to help. Have you?

[billbuckhead]

12. Already too late for 2006? Where's the open source movement?

Where's the open source movement? Don't all the Linux freaks have a big stake in this? Can't you geeks destroy destroy the legitimacy of this fraud on democracy.

[LoZoccolo]

4. Even gun control?

:bounce: :party: :woohoo: :toast: :thumbsup:

[billbuckhead]

14. I don't see the NRA out there opposing BBV? Why is that? Might lose?

The NRA is grimacing about the fillibuster but not a peep about BBV. I think that's cause they know they're in the minority, that's why no Presidential candidate was publically against the AWB. Without the 52 RepuKKKe senators from states with 22% of the population, this murder ridden nation would have civilized gun regulation.

That being said, I WILL QUIT OPPOSING ALL GUN REGULATIONS WHEN THE NRA COMES OUT AGAINST BBV. I can make this gesture cause it will never happen.

That being said, the moment has come for you RBKA Dems, to put up or shut up, either you fight inside the NRA or outside the NRA to get BBV abolished or YOU ARE NOT ON THE PROGRESSIVE SIDE.

[LoZoccolo]

17. You reneg.

Ha ha ha ha ha!

On edit: I misread your post, so the rest is irrelevant.

I just think it's funny that some anonymous guy on the Internet can say I'm not a progressive. Oh well...where do I sign up to start supporting the bankruptcy bill and privatizing Social Security...somebody I don't know kicked me over to the other side!

[billbuckhead]

19. This is the ultimate litmus test for democrats/progresssives. Disprove me?

I my heart of hearts, I know that no one is more scared of all the votes being counted than the NRA. Gun "enthusiasts" prove me wrong.

[PowerToThePeople]

5. I agree too

We will never make any other changes as long as repukes are allowed to steal the government away from the democratically elected officials.

[halobeam]

9. Also, we could have GREAT plans ready

then NO CHANCE in hell of implementing them. Imagine Frist runs, and they steal the election. THAT SHOULD MOTIVATE, don't ya think?

But again, it's WHAT DO WE DO? HOW DO WE HELP?

[ClarkUSA]

6. Common Cause is on this bigtime... I even spoke to them about it

They have a petition out now (I received mine today).

Go to their website and sign up to vounteer/lead in your community. It will be easier to get your state to sponsor legislation than to push it through a GOP-controlled Congress, so start now at the grassroots level!

Send information to your reps, contact Harry Reid -- I wish Dean were speaking out more about this. He's got a soapbox and he's someone who'd get alot of press if he beat the drum about this consistently. I know he set up a committee to study this, but does the DNC really need to examine the issue further to know what is needed?

[SoCalDem]

8. Here's why..

Legislators like things the way they are..

"Lose" an election?... get hired as a 7 figure lobbyist
"win" an election?...maintain power to get kickbacks from 7 figure lobbyists (who used to be in congress/senate) AND get to live on the government dole too..

It's a win-win for them..BOTH parties..

The campaign fiery rhetoric is just that...rhetoric meant to get votes and money from constituents..

The ONLY people who have power to affect change are the very ones who do NOT want change:(

[ClarkUSA]

10. Dean needs to beat BBV like a drum - he has the visibility as DNC Chairman

Anything he says gets coverage....please if anyone knows him here, tell him that
we need to raise this issue in more than a DNC committee that will release its results this fall.

[BeFree]

11. The Vote

The ground in which our democracy has it's roots is called the Vote. If that ground is poisoned then democracy will die.

Someone asked: "Can you prove the e-voting machines stole the vote?"

"I might" I answered, "If they would let me, or anyone else, fully examine the black boxes. What we do know is that there is no way to prove that the votes were counted as cast. No way. In fact, thousands of votes cast in black boxes are known to have not been counted at all. That's a fact. We just aren't sure how many votes were actually lost due to the black boxes being used."

That's no way to run an election, eh?

[halobeam]

15. It's only a selection then

NOT an election. The truth hurts.

One big fat OUCH.

On Edit to respond to #13....

I think many people listened. I don't think ENOUGH people listened. I don't think enough people are listening still.

Look, I spent a while, just asking EVERYONE I came in touch with on line, "Why are you putting so much energy into this issue, when the VOTE DOESN'T COUNT, the issue is DEAD!?!?!?!?!"

Almost everyone, went back to the "issues".

Maybe it's boring, a black box. Hmmmmmmmmmmm, not even a "pink" box or a "music box". It doesn't create more and more or take away less and less, it doesn't do any tricks. (The operators might do some tricks though). All in all, a black box. Yawn,.... hmmmmmmmmm can someone please pass me the Polaner?

I don't get it. Is it apathy? Is it denial? Is it defeatist? WHAT IS IT????\

If anyone can offer insight, then THAT would probably help me sleep.

[BeFree]

21. What is it?

Why don't people take due notice?

Could it be that in questioning the Vote, a disquieting and uncomfortable bug enters the mind with a viral type of infection which ends up with screaming mind numbing questions about the very core of our democracy? That those un-questioning people would just as soon go on believing everything is hunky-dory?

Too, any leader that questions the vote is asking for a quick political death in as much as all the other players will immediately turn on any such questioner and see to it the death penalty is enacted, ASAP. However, it does leave an opening for new players to come on the scene and bust some balls: balls badly needing to be busted, eh?

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

13. There was a New Yorker article that I read in the 80's or early 90's

It was so prescient. Does anyone else remember reading this? It was such a clarion call so early on. It really was years and years ago and it was all about about how easily election voting technology could be hacked. It practically gave a blueprint. I guess no one listened.

[Junkdrawer]

16. As per "collusion"...

Prior to 2002, this issue was on NOBODY'S radar screen, save a few folks like the Collier Bros and Rebecca Mercury. Even John Conyers worked to get touch screen machines into poor precincts.

Nobody thought that the voting machine companies would steal elections.

Nobody looked into the history of these companies.

Everyone thought the voting machine companies were regulated and audited.

"Everybody" was wrong.

In 2002, the unexplained suppression of exit polls and the sudden reversal of several key Senate races led folks here and on several other progressive websites into a massive amount of research that has uncovered the sad state of affairs we are in. That was only 2+ years ago.

Sadly, there is much more education that will need to be done. Even more sad is the thought that by the time our "leaders" catch on, the damage may well be irreversible.

[vince3]

18. You're right.

[AndyTiedye]

22. It's True. As Long As Diebold & ES&SS Count the Votes, We'll Lose

No matter how much money we raise.
No matter how far ahead we are in the polls.
They'll flash up that wretched scene of the Boosh Family sitting around the fire,
and all the numbers will all start to change,
and the Repiglicans will "win" again.