If they replace Cheney with Powell in '04, won't they win?

[AngryYoungMan]

It seems like that's their move. That's why they're frantically distancing themselves from him.

Also, it seems like it might work.

[GregW]

1. Gee ... then maybe someone will ask a "My Lai" question in the debates

Yeah, right :eyes:

[SweetZombieJesus]

4. Not unless Clark's the nominee

Then they'll respond with "war crimes" and "almost started WWIII", and the slime will stick, and the same idiots who voted for Shrub because he was a "regular guy" will believe that this PROVES the GOP isn't racist, and will help elect the first Black VP, even if he is an Uncle Tom.

Most black people will see through it, except for the Juan Williamses and Alan Keyes of the world, and vote for whoever the Dem candidate is. And we'll still lose :(

[Bucky]

31. "Uncle Tom"

Uncle Tom is an overused criticism. Any black person who is conservative can expect to be called a Tom or a race traitor. I don't agree with much of what Powell says or does. I don't care for the company he keeps. But it seems to perfectly exemplify racism to say that an African-American is intellectually prostituted just because he or she holds a conservative philosophy--as if skin color alone is an acceptable determiner of some people's politics.

Such sentiment is not worthy of a progressive website.

Powell is no Uncle Tom. He was forthright at telling the GOP convention to their faces that he supports affirmative action and even made the valid point that they already engage in affirmative action for certain corporations (*cough-Halliburton-cough*). It's okay to be both black and conservative. It's stupid, I think, but in America you have the right to be stupid.

[hippiechick]

2. just discussing this very thing via email

...with a friend ... that it seems like Shrubbie is getting ready to jettison Uncle Dick now that Halliburton has 2 new sandboxes to play in, and $87B for new toys.

Dick's fulfilled his mission, now he can retire and count the cash.

But whose next ? Powell ? Jeb ? Ridge ? Giuliani ?


:wtf: are they up to ?


:hippie:

[AngryYoungMan]

7. But Cheney won't like it.

The prospect of Cheney willingly "taking the fall" is about as likely as the prospect of him donating money to the Sierra Club.

When Bush, Rumsfeld and Rice LINED UP to dispute what Cheney said on Meet the Press, I thought, "What the hell?"

Either it was a mistake, or some weird meltdown/infighting is going on, or there's some master Cheney strategy at work here. But I can't imagine him EVER willingly relinquishing anything.

[SweetZombieJesus]

11. What does Cheney have to lose from this scenario?

He resigns, citing health reasons, and goes off to collect big fat checks from Halliburton, without the stress of having to go on TV and pretend to not be an evil lunatic. He'd still be able to pull whatever strings he's pulling now, and he'd be ensured a presidential pardon should the Dems in Congress ever get the balls or the numbers to prosecute Cheney for his war profiteering.

This scenario is all win for the Republicans, and all lose for everyone else.

[calimary]

26. But if he resigns, doesn't that open him to litigation that he can't

hide as easily from, under the "national security" excuse? Once he's a private citizen again, doesn't that make him more vulnerable? LIke, I'd like to see the 9/11 widows take him apart in a courtroom. Anybody know?

[hippiechick]

28. it depends on the 'presidential secrecy' thing

... remember, poppy bush's papers were locked away for whatever BS reasons, and some kind of fuss was made about it .... if whatever 'rule' that was extends to the veep as well, we'll have no way of ever knowing wtf he was up to, short of a death bed confession, so no way to successfully indict.



:hippie:

[Jacobin]

29. That's when the "pardonez moi" begins

POOF, problems gone

[sangh0]

3. No, but they might win if they

exchange shit for brains

[MuseRider]

5. That was good.

made me chuckle and I needed that. Thanks.

[NicoleM]

6. I don't think so

First of all, weren't they just recently trying to distance themselves from Powell, when it was leaked that he would resign after his first term?

Secondly, people probably associate Powell with all the pre-war hype more than Cheney, because he was on TV a lot more. Convince the people that the pre-war hype is all lies, and that makes Powell a liar.

AND they need the South to win, and I don't know if everybody down there is ready to vote for an African-American VP.

[SweetZombieJesus]

The Republicans care much more about winning than they do about race

Especially the race of the do-nothing VP.

And as for Powell being just as big a hyping liar as the rest: well yeah, but CNN and Fox and MSGOP and ABC and CBS and NBC won't say anything about it. It will all be "Historic announcement by the GOP! First Black Vice President! What a unifier our popular wartime Prez is!"

The media would be like pigs in shit with it.

[NicoleM]

10. It's up to the Dem nominee

to say that Powell is a liar, over and over and over again. If the Dem nominee keeps saying it, they will report it. They love a controversy.

Second, WRT race, I don't know much about the South but I know a little about racists. A lot of them just wouldn't vote before they'd vote for an African-American. I think their racism trumps their Republicanism.

[Isome]

23. just wouldn't vote

You know it! They'll pay mucho lip service to Powell & tha' Skeeza, but when voting time came around, there's no way they'd be willing to put Black man that close to the highest office in the land. This country isn't ready.

[oasis]

25. Dixie would nix a Colin pick.

[DIKB]

8. I doubt it

most people are seeing through this administration. the way they settle every situation by putting Conditz, or Colon in front of the masses "Look here's a black person who supports us, we aren't just elitist white fundie neo-cons." Their attempts are obvious and insulting.

[hang a left]

9. Bush will not be re-elected in 04

no matter who his VP is. It has already been decided. He is going down. IMO

[SweetZombieJesus]

12. Wish I shared your enthusiasm, but...

this is the only scenario I've read that I'm really scared of. Anything else can be successfully defended against, but this...I just don't know how we could combat this in any way without the Repub talking heads labeling us "racists" for attacking the virtuous Veep-To-Be and having it stick with the mush-brained swing voters.

[NoKingGeorge]

13. The powers behind Cheney

Cheney will resign. He can still run aWol from behind the curtain. The money raised to put the pupeteers in office did not come from Cheney or Rummy or Wolfy. The 'Money' behind these traitors is where the real power is. playing 3 card monte is for the public.

[AngryYoungMan]

17. Cheney is not interested in resigning or retiring.

In '97 or '98 Cheney was asked to run the commission they formed to select a running mate for Bush. Cheney accepted. His commision recommended Cheney as the running mate.

He is not interested in running things from "behind the scenes," out of office. Cheney wants power. He has been thoroughly consistent about this for decades. His mission in life is to amass power and evade responsibility. He is not resigning or retiring.

[hang a left]

30. I don't think it is up to him anymore. IMO

[MidwestTransplant]

14. Colin Powell is pro choice and pro affir. act.

I don't think that would go over well with the base.

[MGKrebs]

15. I don't think Powell would accept,

and I don't think they would offer it to him anyway. Powell has been butting heads with the rest of the administration too much for too long. He seems to me to have eventually decided to "toe the line", but not happily. This is just based on my perception of his body language and tone of voice. I would be surprised if he is in the administration in ANY capacity if they win.

Cheney is a less clear to me. On the one hand, I doubt if he gives a shit whether he is in government or not, as long as he is in charge of something(and I DO believe that he is "in charge" of the government)and can make a lot of money. On the other hand, he was an architect of the PNAC plan, so he probably has some emotional (and other) investment in it, so it might be hard for him to turn over the reins to that.

Having said that, he may be able to have almost as much influence being (barely) outside of the government as in the government anyway.

[TreasonousBastard]

16. Powell or Rudy.

Either way they have a pretty good chance of getting their numbers up.

I think everybody should remember that this is a game where winning is the only thing. Cheney's ticker and the usual "I want to spend time with my family" bullshit gets him out gracefully, and they get a "hero" in there.

There are some real badasses jockeying for power behind the White House, and none of them have any qualms about what they have to do to get and keep it. I wouldn't be in the least surprised if after they get Cheney dumped, Shrub gets sick and doesn't run for another term. Might even resign. Those who put him in power take take him down.

Much of it depends on any Congressional changes this year, and the outlook for next year.

[Starpass]

18. I think the shine is off of Powell's apple

He's now just one of the lying liars who lie---remember he was waving a damn graduate paper around in the UN declaring that it was the great proof conerning Saddam. He has enemies within the administration. Bush's base doesn't 'do' black--the thought that one might some day be president gives them the vapors. In fact, a nice white general would turn their heads. They don't need someone to make them look more 'war like' and hard on defense---they already have an over abundant shit pile of those!! But they might want a nice woman to cozy up to women. I heard that one of his strategies this year was to court women. In fact, I bet this is one reason the Supremes didn't have a resignation--Bush did not want to get into the "anti abortion" judge thing. Women would have hated him if he appointed one and his base would go apeshit if he didn't appoint one!!! I'm looking for a token broad.

[Brian Sweat]

19. Yeah, but who?

Ann Coulter? Kay Bailey Hutchinson? Kathrine Harris? Name a Republican woman, the prospect of whom become the president, wouldn't scare the shit out of middle America?

[Terran]

20. It's not going to happen

The repubs will never put an African-American in the VP spot because they don't want that person to be the logical candidate for president one or two terms down the road. Most of their base will never vote for anyone but a white male. Period. It's a simple matter of how racist the republican base is.

Dirk

[dfong63]

21. not unless powell can instantly create 3 million jobs

[proud patriot]

22. I personally don't think powell would take it

The Repugs wanted to run him as Pres. candidate years back .
He turned them down .

[Adjoran]

24. makes no difference at all

The VP candidate is rarely the decisive factor. Sometimes they help a bit - Kennedy's pick of Johnson, Clinton picking Gore, Reagan picking Bush I. A mistake can hurt, like McGovern's choice of Eagleton and then dumping him, or Bush I NOT dumping Quayle.

I have yet to see an exit poll or study that shows the VP candidate was the decisive factor in who any significant number of voters based their choice.

The VP "search" can generate a lot of buzz and media attention, but in the end, voters make their decision based on who is at the top of the ticket.

[Zero Gravitas]

27. No why would they win?

Powell has lost most his appeal to moderates/independants with his lies about Iraq. Remember the aluminum tubes of mass destruction? He is just as complicit as the rest the Bush* cronies.