Church (NOT religion), small towns, and politics. Consider the following,

[blondeatlast]

I wrote this quite some time ago, but hadn't posted it. It was written well before the E. Waynesville Baptist situation, but in light of that, I think it might be worth considering.

If you’ve never been a churchgoer and/or lived in a small town, I don’t think you can grasp the relationship of churches and small (read RED) towns. I have been both, although I now live in a large Western city.

And here’s the kicker—neither do the Radical RW. They just know how to EXPLOIT something that means a great deal to most small/red towners.

Church is only marginally about religion, really. Most (I’ll use) Christians, as an example, are perfectly aware that they don’t need church in order to practice their faith.

Instead, it’s about (to resurrect a phrase from the past) COMMUNITY. At least once a week, and usually more often, here is a safe place where people you share something important with meet, talk, gossip, socialize, take care of each other, the list could go on and on. These are people one has an implicit trust in—and city types may not get this, but—the trust is well-founded. And this trust may very well have been what cost us the election—NOT the rhetoric from the preachers. And I’m serious. Few pay any real attention to what they are saying anyway. It’s the GATHERING that’s important.

I can’t tell you why my neighbors watched our backs, but our neighbors watched our backs, invariably. And we watched theirs.

Small towners really aren’t afraid of gays. In every small town I lived in, there were gays of both stripes. Everyone knew who they were, and guess what? They were involved in social events, part of everything. When the doors were closed, they were left alone the same way “typical” families were. Basically it came down to blissful ignorance. They only react when it’s pushed upon them. And guess what the theocons did in 2004? They pushed the issue into their faces, to which they had to react.

We knew who beat their wives, who’s kid was pregnant, who was hooked, and on beyond zebra.

So what does all this mean? I don’t know, but I do think that both sides of the political fence have missed the boat in dealing with these small/red towners.

What small/red towners want is to STAY small town. They have NO desire to be citified. That means they may think they want the Wal-Mart, but in one particular case, a town I lived in for many years, it doesn’t take long for them to regret it deeply.

We don’t have to abandon the civil rights (read gay) to win back the red states. We need to refocus our thinking about abortion—we don’t need to abandon it. Teen pregnancy always seemed to me a bigger problem in the towns I lived in than in the city, anyway. We all knew where to go, as it were…

We do have to see that small towns are represented in the party. While they don‘t constitute a big voting bloc ALONE, they tend to have EXACTLY the same issues (agriculture, for example). We need to work locally. We need to understand how the church is related to the community.

If you want to know how LWers in red states/small towns think, listen for a week to Ed Schultz. Even if, as many don’t, you can’t stand him. He exemplifies every LW small town person I’ve ever known, and since my parents were always very active in politics, I knew every Dem in every town I ever lived in.

I challenge you to spend a week listening to him. If most of us on DU could do that, we’d have an enormously improved chance of winning the red states. And they would finally feel comfortable voting for their own interests.

[DeepModem Mom]

1. Thanks for this post --

very interesting perspective, b.

[Dhalgren]

2. I know a lot of these "small, red towners".

My mother is a perfect example. And much of your depiction is spot-on. But how do we reach a whole group of people who can compartmentalize so much of their thinking? My niece is a lesbian. She is a wonderful, loving, caring young woman - real "salt of the earth" kind of girl. She and her partner are happy and my mother loves them both. She is absolutely opposed to equal rights for homosexuals, but not for her own granddaughter - she should have equal rights. My mother was opposed to "the welfare state", but wanted my aunt to continue to receive her welfare checks. She wants universal health care, but opposes anyone's plans for it because she is told to oppose it by those who control her non-local thinking. She, and many other "red-towners", want one set of rules for their neighbors and another set for all those "godless heathens" from somewhere else. My mother's family, church, and community shape her local thinking (therefor it is compassionate and generous), but her state, national, and world thinking is shaped by vicious RW demagogues. How do we combat that?

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. Keep hammering away that God wants us to treat each other as family

even strangers and people on pieces of paper on the other side of the country or world.

[blondeatlast]

6. That's the conundrum. One of the problems is that small town people are

as trusting as they are.

The Dems, I think, need a concerted effort by LOCAL Dems--not interns from the east--to get their message out.

One of the things that might work is for them to see just how alike they are to other small-town folk.

I lived in small towns in Kansas, Colorado, Montana, and Arizona, and things are pretty much the same in every one of them. The do have a problem with "others" and the RW has managed to exploit that. But there really are no "others" in small towns.

[Blue Diadem]

7. I've always said that small red-towners have a "do as I say -not as

I do attitude". They are non-accepting of the outside world and are fearful of any outside influence.

You're description is accurate and what I see everyday and I wish there was a way to change it.

[thinkingwoman]

4. I think it can be boiled down

to a desire to be left alone and locally governed. Unfortunately, for the past 25 years or more that has led them to vote Republican.

I think that if the Democrats would take up the battle cry of freedom and liberty that it would draw voters from all over the spectrum.

People are generally tired of being told what to think and do--and they're tired of it from the extreme right AND the extreme left.

That's just my 2 cents, of course, which won't buy a drop of gas.

[G_j]

5. I am a "Yankee"

who moved to NC about 13 yrs ago. For eight of those years I lived in a very rural area. My immediate neighbors had lived there for five generations. They were not Dems, but we never talked politics anyway.
I think they knew I was a "liberal". I was obviously a hippie and a yankee who played electric guitar etc. What I did find was that these people were always there to help me if I needed something. For example there was a freak storm that blew down about 50 trees across my driveway. The very next morning at the crack of dawn there was Charlie with a friend he had called with chain saws, clearing the path. I can't count how many times they were there to help a neighbor, it was an unspoken given for them.
This is something I had not experienced in the same way up north and
I've learned a lot from them.

[ComerPerro]

8. Good advice at the end (at least, I think. Never listed to him)

But its worth a shot.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

9. As I mentioned in another post

people in small towns trust their local churches, because that's where their neighbors whom they've known all their lives go, and they are mostly concerned with local matters.

(I spent seven years in a small town in Oregon.)

If their church is taking over by a right wing preacher, especially one who pushes all the correct buttons with terms that have had harmless meanings till now ("family values," "freedom," "patriotism," "supporting the troops," "morality," "protecting the sanctity of marriage," etc.), they are inclined to go along, because they are unaware of the politcal subtext. In their minds, "family values" means the family having dinner together, "patriotism" means marching in the Fourth of July parade, "supporting the troops" means sending packages to the neighbor kid who's overseas, "morality" means upright personal behavrior, and "protecting the sanctity of marriage" means no adultery. There's a spirit of mutual assistance, but everyone is expected to pull their own weight, if possible.

By contrast, if a left wing preacher comes in and starts preaching about civil rights or peace, this is seen as imposing urban values on people who purposely avoid the city. My small town was only forty miles from Portland, but I knew people who were "afraid" to go there and who were dismayed to hear that I was moving there: "What do you want there with all those freaks?"

I liked what Auntie Pinko said to the College Dem in this week's column. Small town Dems should participate in community activities as Democrats and as an identifiable group. They should march in the Fourth of July parade, have a booth at Crazy Days, give candy to children at Halloween, participate in clean-up days, bring food baskets to the needy and shut-in, provide rides to older people, and contribute to local fundraising efforts, all the while wearing their "X County Democrats" T shirts.

These efforts won't convince the hardcore right wingers, but they will do a lot to convince middle of the road types that the Dems don't have horns, cloven feet, and tails.

[blondeatlast]

11. Exactly--and I think, rather than knocking on doors every weekend,

Dems should hold picnics (that goes for the cities, too).

Less people hours used to, IMHO, far better effect, and not as intrusive. In one small town I lived in, the Dems hels a huge picnic.

People want to get together in identifiable groups. It makes them feel safer. Your ideas serve two purposes, the gathering AND the exposure.

[hfojvt]

17. "but what the heck, you're welcome

join us at our picnic. You can eat your fill of all the food
you bring yourself..."

I am not necessarily sure how red a small town is, or at least one thing that makes them redder is the way they are ignored by big city and/or big state candidates. As a registered Democrat since at least 1988 I voted for a moderate Republican in 1996 because his opponent was former mayor of the big city down the road and he seemed to write off, or ignore my part of the district. My small town and the area around it was loaded with hippie types and for all its reputation for being Republican actually almost evenly split between Republicans and Democrats.

Of course, that was blue Wisconsin, but blue Wisconsin was governed by the odious Tommy Thompson for millenia and if Bush had not made him secretaty of HEW, he would still be governor.

I was hoping for some national/state help to defeat Ryun here in Kansas. After all, this district voted for Gore in 2000. I said the same thing in 2000 as well after I noticed that Gore carried my district in Iowa by the same percentage that the Republican congressman was re-elected.

So I am very happy to see Dean work in places like ND. It hurts to be on the short end of the triage. This is a district that did send three dems, albeit DINOs to the state legislature.

[DemocracyInaction]

10. Christian. Born in Mid-sized; lived in tiny and lived in big towns/cities

You are partly right. I've lived all at all level towns/cities as a practicing Christian. People really don't listen in most cases to the sermons and pronouncements, etc. as you point out. BUT something more than 'social gathering' is infilterating which, point blank, crawled out from the underbelly of the south. It very much now defines part of that church 'social group' as a political group. In the midsized and small towns they are sooooo terribly ignorant of the broad range of peoples and life. So much has not grown outside their small part of the world for decades. Thus, the vipers carrying Bibles that are coming to town are now easily convincing them that the minions of hell are at the gates and ready to devour the 'good' people. They are a lot more homophobic and racial, etc. than you know. And now tv is selling them a hybred republican/distored Christian message. It doesn't even take an outsider coming in preaching the gospel of hate and fear anymore---they get it on tv. Their communities and states are 'red' for a reason. It didn't just happen. There is more brewing there than meets the eye.

[Bouncy Ball]

12. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.

I've never heard Schultz, so I can't comment on that.

But about being kicked out of your chuch: I have heard a few people say "well, they probably weren't happy there, anyway" or something to that effect.

There are people who have been going to one church for GENERATIONS. I know if my grandparents had been kicked out of their church for being Dems (wouldn't have happened, but they were Dems), it would have been freaking DEVASTATING to them. That was their HOME. They were there every time the church doors were open! My grandfather was a deacon and mowed the lawn of the church every Saturday. My grandmother taught Sunday School to little kids for fifty YEARS. Their neighbors went there, their whole family. Their doctor and his family, their dentist, the grocer. Everyone.

They got married there, had their kids baptized there, their kids got married there, they buried their parents there.

It's not a small thing.

And I am quite certain Jesus would not approve of kicking someone out of his father's house for politics. Not at all.

Sorry, I got off topic, but yeah blondeatlast, what you are saying is what Dean has said and is still saying.

The repukes don't have a stranglehold on these people, they simply EXPLOIT them. And we can do better than exploiting people. We can LISTEN to people.

[Abelman]

13. An extremely good post.

What can we do, then? Many of these people live in a small town because they want to. Can we promote that as a cause of the party? That if you live in a small community, you should be left alone unless you need help? I don't know.

This is an great observation and very important, I think. I just don't know how, but I want to know.

[SemperEadem]

14. I noticed that, too

If you’ve never been a churchgoer and/or lived in a small town, I don’t think you can grasp the relationship of churches and small (read RED) towns. I have been both, although I now live in a large Western city.

And here’s the kicker—neither do the Radical RW. They just know how to EXPLOIT something that means a great deal to most small/red towners.

When I drove across country last year, going through the small, rural areas I noticed the proliferation of both interstate franchise businesses (McDonald's, Subway, Burger King, etc.) and churches. Lots and lots of churches. Almost as if it, too, were a franchise business. And I guess it can be viewed that way; heck everything is a commodity in a capitalistic society.

[Missy Vixen]

15. We live in a rural small town

that is predominantly Republican. There is a real underbelly of racism here, but it's not publicly discussed. (How else could a local white supremacist continue to openly advertise and proselytize his beliefs in a business existing on Main Street?)

Blondeatlast, your definitions of terms to small-town residents like "family values" and "support the troops" are 100% accurate. Let's hope that we can get true grassroots effort going in these small towns.

Julie

[chomskysright]

16. nice post and completely on target re: gays

[patcox2]

18. King of the Hill is the key, if you get it, you get small towns.

Hank Hill is perfect, he is really a democrat, he just doesn't know it. Look at the show in which it was revealed that Dale's father was a gay rodeo star (and there are gay rodeos). They aren't that much different from us city slickers, they just think they are.

They can be won over if not condescended to, and the only way not to look and sound condescending is to not BE condescending.

[blondeatlast]

19. I hadn't thought of it, but "King of the Hill" is a perfect

introduction to small town culture.

Add another to the "if you care to learn" list: King of the Hill, and it's damn funny, too.

[knitter4democracy]

20. I have always loved that show.

I grew up in the Mason-Dansville area of Michigan (small town about half an hour from Lansing, which was a long way not too long ago). I went to school with guys like that. Shoot, my step-family is like that. It may be about Texas, but it's really about small-town life anywhere with all the pride that goes with it.

The OP was great, and I've been saying that for awhile. I will never forget people's reactions when the out-of-state interns came in for the election. That didn't go over well, even with the Dems. What were they going to be able to tell us about our area that we didn't already know?

We won our county here in red area SW Michigan, btw.

[blondeatlast]

22. The interns didn't go well in my large city, either.

Personally, I detested all but one of them--one actually wanted to listen to US, rather than us endlessly listening to them.

I think the Dems really, really need to go local. Put more power in the local hands.

My relatives back home are very red state, yet very Dem. My relatives say the n-word liberally (so to speak), but they really aren't racists in the least. They joke about f**s, but they know many and really don't give a crap what they do.

I think what really upset me past November '04 was that we let the Radical Right define what red-staters are. If the Dems want to take back the center-left, rural areas and small towns will do it. But they have to LISTEN, not talk.

As I said in the OP, they are underrepresented, but their issues are all pretty much the same. They need to be treated like a voting bloc the same way any group is treated. They can almost be treated as the same Congressional district, in a way.

[knitter4democracy]

24. I totally agree.

The people I know are pissed about losing jobs overseas, pissed about gas prices and other costs going up, pissed at how huge corporations are making money at farming but no one else is, and just generally pissed at where our country seems to be headed. I think they needed to feel proud again, and war does that.

I think those who have time to keep up on some news are starting to re-think all of it, though, since it's our boys and girls who are doing the dying. We can talk to them now, when I don't think they were ready before. Of course, I found many who were willing to listen and consider what we were saying when I did phone banking, and SW Michigan is supposedly very Republican territory. Many simply did not know how much the administration has lied to us or even that the abortion rate went up under Bush. That got many thinking. We can get them if we listen, respect them, and realize that they're Dems and don't know it.

[suegeo]

21. They exploit the ignorance of small town people

Not all people in small towns are ignorant, but many are. All they hear is rightwing hate radio and the fascist bullshit on television. They get taken advantage of and they are too stupid to see it.

What makes it worse is that the ignorance is willful.

And there was no diversity to really speak of in the small towns I had to live in. They mocked music, art, plays. The line for the movie PORKIES was 4 blocks long.

And I take off the rose-colored glasses when I look back at small town life.

Sure, they might bring a tatortot casserole to the funeral supper of someone who cashed in their chips. But I also knew people who stole from the handicapped. I knew small towners who bitched about city welfare recipients, while they cashed in on farm subsidies from the government. (Which I think farmers should get, because we all need food or we starve. But the hypocrisy just kills me)

I knew a guy who snapped, raped his friend's wife. There were drugs, there were gangs and fights, and there were farmers dumping chemicals into the ground water that everyone had to drink from and so on.

Sure, some people in small towns might be nice. But keep your eyes on your purse, just the same. Except if you're in the library, because you'll probably be in there all alone.

[blondeatlast]

23. I live in the city now; I really see not much difference.

Plenty of crime, plenty of hate, most of it is far more open in the cities.

I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I just know that this is a voting bloc that should be solidly Democratic and we lose them every time.

[Catherine Vincent]

25. How depressing.

Are there any small towns that are blue that are in red states?

[true_notes]

27. Go to TN

The whole middle and West TN is Blue(Vice the Nashville area). All of Eastern, where the population is is red. My town is a blue town in a red state, but they are yellow dog dems.

[RevCheesehead]

26. Just a few comments

* LISTENING * is more important that talking, spreading the word, etc. I often remind people the Good Lord gave us two ears and one mouth, meaning we should listen twice as much as we speak.

* SMALL CHURCH DYNAMICS * is what you're describing. For the most part, the church community is already formed. The local pastor may or may not be seen as a part of that community. In the United Methodist Church, we have done a disservice to ourselves by moving pastors too frequently (often every 2, 3, or 4 years). When you continually uproot the pastor, you can't expect much in church leadership from the pastor. Then the "leadership" goes to the local patriarch/matriarch.

* FEAR * is what's being exploited by the radical right. When you add fear to anything, it begets more fear - despite whatever the bible says, people will be afraid if they hear "be afraid" over and over again.

Ironically, fear will only take you so far - it is a short-term fix for getting quick results. That's the genius of Rove - he knows that, and used it to the blivet's advantage. (This drop in the polls isn't surprising to the repukes, either.)

What the dems need to do is reframe the discussion. And by discussion, that means listening to the people. That's what Russ Feingold does - he schedules listening sessions in every county in the state (WI). Is it any surprise he is enormously popular here?