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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 06:13 AM
Original message
Why has this SMOKING GUN Memo story not been picked up by majors!!!!
Edited on Fri May-06-05 06:21 AM by althecat
This is not rocket science it is straight forward and damning news... it shows the Brits new that Bush was committed to war in July 2002, before even Andrew Card made his stupid remarks about launching new product over the summer break.

It is already a few days old, and as these google (& yahoo) links shows so far only Knight Ridder have run it. While better than nothing, what the hell is the Grey Lady and the Washpost doing?

This is disgraceful...

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2004-29%2CGGLD%3Aen&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&ncl=http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002265205_intel06.html&filter=0

http://news.google.com/news?q=Matthew%20Rycroft&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-29,GGLD:en&sa=N&tab=wn

http://news.google.com/news?q=But%20the%20intelligence%20and%20facts%20were%20being%20fixed%20around%20the%20policy&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-29,GGLD:en&sa=N&tab=wn

http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=%22the+intelligence+and+facts+were+being+fixed+around+the+policy%22&c=

(note as soon as this story is picked up these links will show em..)

Methinks people ought to be writing to the ombudspeople...

al

******

SECRET AND STRICTLY PERSONAL - UK EYES ONLY
DAVID MANNING
From: Matthew Rycroft
Date: 23 July 2002
S 195 /02

cc: Defence Secretary, Foreign Secretary, Attorney-General, Sir Richard Wilson, John Scarlett, Francis Richards, CDS, C, Jonathan Powell, Sally Morgan, Alastair Campbell

IRAQ: PRIME MINISTER'S MEETING, 23 JULY

Copy addressees and you met the Prime Minister on 23 July to discuss Iraq.

This record is extremely sensitive. No further copies should be made. It should be shown only to those with a genuine need to know its contents.

John Scarlett summarised the intelligence and latest JIC assessment. Saddam's regime was tough and based on extreme fear. The only way to overthrow it was likely to be by massive military action. Saddam was worried and expected an attack, probably by air and land, but he was not convinced that it would be immediate or overwhelming. His regime expected their neighbours to line up with the US. Saddam knew that regular army morale was poor. Real support for Saddam among the public was probably narrowly based.

C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.

CDS said that military planners would brief CENTCOM on 1-2 August, Rumsfeld on 3 August and Bush on 4 August.

The two broad US options were:

(a) Generated Start. A slow build-up of 250,000 US troops, a short (72 hour) air campaign, then a move up to Baghdad from the south. Lead time of 90 days (30 days preparation plus 60 days deployment to Kuwait).

(b) Running Start. Use forces already in theatre (3 x 6,000), continuous air campaign, initiated by an Iraqi casus belli. Total lead time of 60 days with the air campaign beginning even earlier. A hazardous option.

The US saw the UK (and Kuwait) as essential, with basing in Diego Garcia and Cyprus critical for either option. Turkey and other Gulf states were also important, but less vital. The three main options for UK involvement were:

(i) Basing in Diego Garcia and Cyprus, plus three SF squadrons.

(ii) As above, with maritime and air assets in addition.

(iii) As above, plus a land contribution of up to 40,000, perhaps with a discrete role in Northern Iraq entering from Turkey, tying down two Iraqi divisions.

The Defence Secretary said that the US had already begun "spikes of activity" to put pressure on the regime. No decisions had been taken, but he thought the most likely timing in US minds for military action to begin was January, with the timeline beginning 30 days before the US Congressional elections.

The Foreign Secretary said he would discuss this with Colin Powell this week. It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran. We should work up a plan for an ultimatum to Saddam to allow back in the UN weapons inspectors. This would also help with the legal justification for the use of force.

The Attorney-General said that the desire for regime change was not a legal base for military action. There were three possible legal bases: self-defence, humanitarian intervention, or UNSC authorisation. The first and second could not be the base in this case. Relying on UNSCR 1205 of three years ago would be difficult. The situation might of course change.

The Prime Minister said that it would make a big difference politically and legally if Saddam refused to allow in the UN inspectors. Regime change and WMD were linked in the sense that it was the regime that was producing the WMD. There were different strategies for dealing with Libya and Iran. If the political context were right, people would support regime change. The two key issues were whether the military plan worked and whether we had the political strategy to give the military plan the space to work.

On the first, CDS said that we did not know yet if the US battleplan was workable. The military were continuing to ask lots of questions.

For instance, what were the consequences, if Saddam used WMD on day one, or if Baghdad did not collapse and urban warfighting began? You said that Saddam could also use his WMD on Kuwait. Or on Israel, added the Defence Secretary.

The Foreign Secretary thought the US would not go ahead with a military plan unless convinced that it was a winning strategy. On this, US and UK interests converged. But on the political strategy, there could be US/UK differences. Despite US resistance, we should explore discreetly the ultimatum. Saddam would continue to play hard-ball with the UN.

John Scarlett assessed that Saddam would allow the inspectors back in only when he thought the threat of military action was real.

The Defence Secretary said that if the Prime Minister wanted UK military involvement, he would need to decide this early. He cautioned that many in the US did not think it worth going down the ultimatum route. It would be important for the Prime Minister to set out the political context to Bush.

Conclusions:

(a) We should work on the assumption that the UK would take part in any military action. But we needed a fuller picture of US planning before we could take any firm decisions. CDS should tell the US military that we were considering a range of options.

(b) The Prime Minister would revert on the question of whether funds could be spent in preparation for this operation.

(c) CDS would send the Prime Minister full details of the proposed military campaign and possible UK contributions by the end of the week.

(d) The Foreign Secretary would send the Prime Minister the background on the UN inspectors, and discreetly work up the ultimatum to Saddam.

He would also send the Prime Minister advice on the positions of countries in the region especially Turkey, and of the key EU member states.

(e) John Scarlett would send the Prime Minister a full intelligence update.

(f) We must not ignore the legal issues: the Attorney-General would consider legal advice with FCO/MOD legal advisers.

(I have written separately to commission this follow-up work.)

MATTHEW RYCROFT

(Rycroft was a Downing Street foreign policy aide)
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. Don't You Know, Republicans Never Admit Mistakes!
eom
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blogbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. They have rebellious two-year old tantrums and mentalities..They
Edited on Fri May-06-05 06:21 AM by blogbear
require special 'help' to 'stabilize' them and achieve 'control'..
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. I know
It's because 9/11 changed everything. :eyes:
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blogbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. 9/11 doesn't need to and mustn't change 'EVERYTHING'..Pulling
together at necessary times and hanging together when threatened is one thing..Allowing an overly opportunistic excuse making regime to strip us of our freedoms guaranteed to us in the Bill of Rights is QUITE another!
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democrat in Tallahassee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. It wouldn't make the boy king look very good now will it? So how
can they report it if it doesn't support dear leader?
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 06:21 AM
Response to Original message
4. Was Michael Jackson involved?
Or the runaway bride? Or Scott Peterson? Or Colby Bryant?

Don't be silly. :eyes:
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 06:21 AM
Response to Original message
5. Too many American journalists report in a vacuum
They don't connect the dots for their readers.

I think this has more to do with it than Republican talking points.

It's laziness or inattention in foreign affairs. We're setting ourselves up for another 9/11 as a result.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
6. Because it's a smoking gun.
And President Clinton is no longer in office.
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patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
7. The same reason they don't report a Republican senator saying that people
Edited on Fri May-06-05 06:29 AM by patricia92243
would have to sell their home to survive if SS were privitized and the stock market went down.


Of course Democrats are not talking about it either. Go figure.
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
8. This story was broken by Murdoch's flagship newspaper - The Times Of Lodon
His very own Grey lady. As such it would have been instantly available to Fox news and all the rest of his papers... but nada...

It directly contradicts the GOP party line that it had an open mind on Iraq and that it was an intelligence screwup not an intelligence fabrication network that started this whole mess.

I don't think a more obvious case of self censorship in the US media has ever occurred...

Once again.. this is disgraceful...

I think it would be a worthy project for DUers of initiative to set this straight.

Tis time to get this yarn right under Dan Okrent & Michael Getler's skin.

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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Michael Getler can be reached by phone at 202-334-7582 or by e-mail...
Edited on Fri May-06-05 06:38 AM by althecat
Michael Getler can be reached by phone at 202-334-7582 or by e-mail at ombudsman@washpost.com.

Dan Okrent has been replaced...



E-mail: public@nytimes.com

Phone: (212) 556-7652

Address: Public Editor
The New York Times
229 West 43rd St.


The New York Times Names Byron E. Calame Public Editor

NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--April 5, 2005--The New York Times today announced that Byron E. (Barney) Calame, a former deputy managing editor at The Wall Street Journal, will become its next public editor on May 9, succeeding Daniel Okrent. Executive Editor Bill Keller made the announcement today.


"Barney will bring a lifelong, in-his-bones sense of how a daily newspaper operates, and a deep, demonstrated commitment to the highest standards of our craft," said Mr. Keller. "He will have a hard act to follow. Dan Okrent has been a fearless and creative pioneer, a witty explorer of our strange culture, a perceptive surrogate for our readers."

The public editor works outside of the reporting and editing structure of The Times and receives and answers questions or comments from readers and the public, principally about articles published in the newspaper. Additionally, he publishes periodic commentaries in the paper about The Times's journalistic practices and current journalistic issues in general, to appear when he believes they are warranted. The public editor's e-mail address is public@nytimes.com and is published regularly in The Times.

Mr. Calame, 65, retired in 2004 as a deputy managing editor of The Wall Street Journal, where his responsibilities included paper-wide quality control, maintenance and monitoring of reporting and ethical standards, and oversight of the Journal in the absence of the managing editor. He joined the Journal in 1965 and worked as a reporter in New York, Los Angeles and Washington, D.C., before becoming a bureau chief in Pittsburgh in 1974. He returned to Los Angeles as bureau chief in 1978 and in 1985 became an assistant managing editor in charge of West Coast coverage. He returned to New York as a senior editor in 1987, and in 1992 he became the deputy managing editor.

From 1961 to 1965, Mr. Calame served in the U.S. Navy as an officer on a minesweeper that was part of the first division of ships assigned to duty in South Vietnam, and as a public information officer in Washington.

Mr. Calame was honored by the Society of American Business Editors and Writers (SABEW) in 2002 with its Distinguished Achievement Award for his tireless efforts on behalf of The Wall Street Journal and business journalism in general. He also served as president of the 3,200-member national organization of business journalists from 2000 to 2001. In 1996 he received a Faculty-Alumni Award from the University of Missouri, where he also served as the Thomas Jefferson Distinguished Visiting Lecturer in 1997. In 2004, he became the 55th recipient of the Beta Theta Pi national fraternity's Oxford Cup award for "distinguished service and accomplishments in his chosen field." In 1996, he was a participant in the Bill Moyers television series, "Genesis, A Living Conversation."

Mr. Calame received a bachelor of journalism degree from the University of Missouri in 1961 and a master of science degree in political science from the University of Maryland in 1965.

A photo of Mr. Calame is available at: www.nytco.com/press-photos.html

The New York Times Company (NYSE: NYT), a leading media company with 2004 revenues of $3.3 billion, includes The New York Times, the International Herald Tribune, The Boston Globe, 16 other newspapers, eight network-affiliated television stations, two New York City radio stations and more than 40 Web sites, including NYTimes.com, Boston.com and About.com. For the fifth consecutive year, the Company was ranked No. 1 in the publishing industry in Fortune's 2005 list of America's Most Admired Companies. The Company's core purpose is to enhance society by creating, collecting and distributing high-quality news, information and entertainment.

This press release can be downloaded from www.nytco.com
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PaganPreacher Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
10. Maybe *this* is why....
http://news.pipex.com/Pipex/News/Story_Page/0,13319,5337_438484,00.html

Attorney General Lord Goldsmith today called in the police to investigate the circulation of a forged document purporting to be a memo from him to the Prime Minister.

The memo, dated just over two weeks before the start of the Iraq War in 2003, appears to show the Attorney telling Tony Blair that military action may well turn out to be illegal.

It suggests that war in Iraq could pave the way for "planned future conflicts that have been discussed, like Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia".

But Lord Goldsmith's office this afternoon denounced the document, sent to media newsdesks, as "a complete forgery".


When the purported author said that the document was forged, and immediately demanded a police investigation, the original story lost its legs.

Now, the forgery is the story:

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050429/wl_uk_afp/britainvoteiraq_050429175651

http://news.lycos.co.uk/uk/050429175651.6yu0oq3j.xml.html

http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.php?id=103632

http://europe.news.designerz.com/forged-iraq-memo-to-blair-exposed.html


The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Very interesting.. but this is a different document....
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PaganPreacher Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
28. You're right! My mistake.
Thanks for pointing that out.



The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.



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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
12. It was in the Newark Star Ledger this morning. Normally
Edited on Fri May-06-05 06:44 AM by izzybeans
these stories don't make it in there unless there is some wider support for it. Hopefully its a trial balloon for the big boys. It was a newswire story so everyone would have access to it.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
13. Because when the war crimes charges
are finally filed, many in the media will be under indictment too.

BTW: How long do you think it will be before Blair resigns? That will be the key to the final unraveling. It seems likely that he will be forced to step down sooner rather than later because of this memo and if that happens, then he will be taking George with him.


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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
14. The clue is in the fourth and fifth words of your subj line
Smoking Gun.

We can't have that now, can we?
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Nope... we have to concede to Shrobbery....
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
16. Why isn't it reported in the Empire? Because the "journalists" fear for
Edited on Fri May-06-05 11:42 PM by tom_paine
their jobs, their reputations, bevause they know the Busheviks hit back HARD.

They may even fear for their lives.

But it all traces back to the FEAR. Bush enemies are usually destroyed, if they don;t "commit suicide" or die in small plane crashes.
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
17. One of the top stories on CNN Headline News...
tonight, is the cat that learned how to flush a toilet.

Go figure. :wtf:
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Wha?
Uhm yeah. Okay... Weird. My cousin's cat once tried to eat a flower. :shrug: Is that news?
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Dog and cat stories... an apperatif to any news bulletin...
It's the wall to wall runaway bride coverage that is inexplicable...
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
18. It's not over yet..
Edited on Fri May-06-05 11:47 PM by walldude
88 members of Congress just joined with John Conyers demanding to know the truth. This story may just be getting started...

--edit-- Link: http://www.rawstory.com/aexternal/conyers_iraq_letter_502
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
19. Editor & Publisher are on the case...
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ep/20050506/en_bpiep/anewmemogateknightriddercoversleakedbritishdocumentthatdisputesbushclaimsoniraq
A New Memo-gate? Knight Ridder Covers Leaked British Document That Disputes Bush Claims on Iraq

NEW YORK For much of the week, much of the U.S. press paid little attention to the highly classified British memo, leaked to a British newspaper, which seems to reveal that President Bush decided by summer 2002 to overthrow Iraqi President Saddam Hussein and was determined to ensure that U.S. intelligence data supported his policy.

That changed on Friday, when Knight Ridder circulated a lengthy report on the memo by Warren P. Strobel and John Walcott.

The memo was first disclosed earlier this week by the Sunday Times of London. It has not been disavowed by the British government. A White House official told Knight Ridder that the administration wouldn't comment on the leaked document.

Meanwhile, Rep. John Conyers (news, bio, voting record), D-Mich., the top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, has gained 88 signatures on a letter among fellow Democrats asking the White House for an explanation of the memo. Among other things, the letter asks: Did the Administration lie to the American people about its intentions with respect to Iraq? Did the Administration deliberately manipulate intelligence to deceive the American people about the strength of its case for war?

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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
22. Running Score On SMOKING MEMO STORY - 5pm 7/5 NZT - 66,23,139,39
I'm going to keep a running score on this story for a few days. The numbers indicate the numbers of items returned by each of the four searches (3 Google 1 Yahoo) in the initial post. I have every expectation that this story must now be picked up by the majors.. when it happens these numbers will show it's progress.

al
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. 11.26pm 7/5 NZT - 72,23,142,41
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-05 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
35. 9.30am 9/5 NZT - 67, 24, 152, 43
Not much new at all.. Chicago Tribune picked up the KN report and powerline have a crack...

Still disgraceful
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-05 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Here's powerline...
http://powerlineblog.com/archives/010382.php

Guts pasted here so you don't have to go there :)


A Gun that Doesn't Smoke

Maybe I just missed it, but I haven't seen a lot of comment on the top secret British memo that was leaked just before this week's election. It apparently was written by Matthew Rycroft, and summarizes a meeting of Tony Blair and some of his top advisers on July 23, 2002. The memo is intensely interesting, so I am going to reproduce it in its entirety:

...snip...

Left-wing professor Juan Cole is one who has tried to use this memo to feed the BUSH LIED! theme. Cole's discussion of the memo is, to put it politely, overheated:

Any "debate" was meaningless if the president had already decided. And he wasn't waiting to make his decision in the light of the intelligence. He was going to tell the intelligence professionals to what conclusion they had to come. "But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."
Cole focuses on what is, obviously, a striking sentence. It isn't clear, however, what it was intended to mean. Cole's implication, and the constant implication of the BUSH LIED! lefties, is that the administration really knew that Saddam didn't have any WMDs, but fixed the intelligence to make it appear that he did. But we know that isn't true. The consensus estimate of the U.S. intelligence community has been made public, and it clearly says that, with a high degree of confidence, Iraq possesses chemical and biological weapons. The Senate Intelligence Committee's report has confirmed that this is what the intelligence community believed and reported to the President, and that there is no evidence that the administration improperly influenced the gathering or reporting of intelligence ("The Committee did not find any evidence that Administration officials attempted to coerce, influence or pressure analysts to change their judgments related to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction capabilities.")

And, whatever the British note-taker meant by the sentence quoted by Cole, he obviously didn't mean that there was any doubt on the part of British intelligence or Blair's government that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction. On the contrary, the notes specifically refer to Iraq's WMDs, in sections not quoted by Cole:

The Prime Minister said that it would make a big difference politically and legally if Saddam refused to allow in the UN inspectors. Regime change and WMD were linked in the sense that it was the regime that was producing the WMD...
On the first, CDS said that we did not know yet if the US battleplan was workable. The military were continuing to ask lots of questions.

For instance, what were the consequences, if Saddam used WMD on day one, or if Baghdad did not collapse and urban warfighting began? You said that Saddam could also use his WMD on Kuwait. Or on Israel, added the Defence Secretary.


Cole waxes even more hysterical on the issue of the Iraq war's legality:

Goldsmith was as nervous as a cat in a roomful of rocking chairs: "The Attorney-General said that the desire for regime change was not a legal base for military action. There were three possible legal bases: self-defence, humanitarian intervention, or UNSC authorisation. The first and second could not be the base in this case. Relying on UNSCR 1205 of three years ago would be difficult. The situation might of course change."
The driness of the wit is unbearable. "The desire for regime change was not a legal base for military action"! Naked aggression is illegal, he could have said.

The Attorney General of the United Kingdom thought the reports Dearlove and Straw were bringing back from Washington reeked of an illegal war. People who plan out illegal wars are war criminals. He knew this. He was stuck, however. They were all stuck.


Professor Cole forgets an important bit of history here. Subsequent to this July meeting, the United States and Great Britain did go back to the U.N. for a new resolution, UNSCR 1441, which was adopted on November 8, 2002. When Iraq subsequently failed to comply with Resolution 1441, a new ground for military action existed. Thus, the Attorney General's concern about relying on a three-year-old resolution was satisfied; in the Attorney General's words, the situation changed. Consequently, when he wrote his official opinion shortly before the war began, he concluded that the war's legality was a "reasonably arguable case" that could be "reasonably maintained."

Is that a ringing endorsement? Of course not. But in our view, and that of most supporters of the war, a preemptive strike against a recidivist regime like Saddam's is clearly justified where there is reasonable apprehension of danger to our security. And, while it would be nice to have such a strike blessed by the U.N.'s Security Council, where members of the Security Council have been bribed and have promised to veto any resolution authorizing war, it is absurd to argue that such veto power means it is illegal to act in our own defense. Attorney General Goldsmith applied a narrower standard; but it is hardly a shock to learn that the Bush administration's view of what was necessary to legitimize the Iraq war was different from his or from Kofi Annan's.

In short, this British memo, while it does provide a fascinating glimpse into high-level decision making in Blair's government, is far from being a "smoking gun," as Cole calls it. It adds nothing to our knowledge of the important issues surrounding the Iraq war.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #37
47. I'm glad Hinderocker isn't MY attorney.
Edited on Mon May-09-05 07:39 PM by Carolab
God, this guy just makes it up as he goes along, doesn't he?

John, get a clue: any "fear of WMD" the Brits espoused was based on whatever cooked intel they were getting from the U.S. Some of them, notably Straw and Dearlove, realized this.

You bring up UNSCR 1441 and state that Saddam failed to comply. That is simply not true. Saddam allowed the inspectors back in.

As for your statement that "we knew Iraq had WMD" flies directly in the face of the facts as recently concluded by Charles Duelfer.

The quote you provide ("The Committee did not find any evidence that Administration officials attempted to coerce, influence or pressure analysts to change their judgments related to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction capabilities.") does not argue that there WERE WMD, but simply that the committee did not find evidence of attempts to cook the intel.

Well, if the stories coming out of Italy regarding the Nigerian yellowcake were ever to see the light of day in the U.S. (note that this story has been 86'd any number of times) all of America (and not just the rest of the world) would realize such evidence exists. If not, why did the White House go to such extremes to blow the cover of a valued and respected undercover agent when her husband reported the truth?

Finally, you point out a need for change in a "recidivist regime" was called for in Iraq. Careful of this argument; one might apply that label to us.

Your revisionist history does not change the facts on the ground, John. Better brush up on your debating skills.
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #22
43. 11.10am 10/5 NZT - 6, 26, 160, 45 (LINKS TO NEW REPORTS)
New reports include

http://mediamatters.org/items/200505090005
&
http://mediamatters.org/items/200505060007

Readers complain, but Wash. Post ombudsman mum on lack of coverage of U.K.-Iraq memo

In his weekly column, Washington Post ombudsman Michael Getler reported without comment that readers had criticized the newspaper for ignoring a leaked British memo on the Iraq war published in the British Sunday Times.

Getler's failure to offer a judgment about the Post's editorial decision is remarkable, not only because he regularly responds in his column to reader criticisms, but because of the explosive content of the memo. The memo indicates that Britain's intelligence minister reported after a trip to the United States that President Bush had decided to go to war in Iraq in the summer of 2002, and "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around" the decision that had already been made. In contrast to the U.S. media, U.K. news outlets devoted considerable coverage to the memo, and its disclosure reportedly had a significant impact on the Labour Party's loss of seats in the House of Commons.

Yet Getler simply reported that he had received reader complaints and moved on.

The Post referenced the memo only twice prior to Getler's column: in the May 5 edition of Tina Brown's syndicated column -- which appeared in the paper's Style section -- and in a May 6 article recapping Blair's re-election.

By the end of the week, readers had criticized the Post for this glaring lack of coverage. Perhaps Getler decided that because the Post's coverage was in line with much of the U.S. media, which largely ignored the memo, the Post's failure did not merit his comment. Here's Getler's minimalist treatment:


NEWSDAY RUNS THE KNIGHT RIDDER COPY
http://www.nynewsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uswmd074251820may09,0,7809270.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-headlines

GNN
http://www.gnn.tv/headlines/2758/Rep_Conyers_follows_up_on_British_leaked_memo
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
51. 11.53pm 11 May NZT - 29,168,47 (Molly Ivins & Fair.org)
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brettdale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
24. A list of people to send it to
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
25. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. The Bush Junta subscribes to this 100%.
" I believe democracy flourishes when the government can take legitimate steps to keep its secrets...."

I say, Democracy dies without an investigative media.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
29. BECAUSE IT IS THE TRUTH.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. So called "majors" have NO CREDIBILITY.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
31. Check Out The Freepers FREAKING OUT About It
People simply put their hands over their ears and scream -- they won't hear it, and the media won't report it. We are in a total fascist mindset in this country. Check out the tantrums the Freepers throw at the mention of this memo and of course the CBS thing is the big knee jerk here--OH BROTHER!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1398570/posts
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Kat45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
33. They're afraid of being the next Dan Rather/CBS
They're scared that the memo will turn out to be a fake, making them look totally stupid and careless and that nobody will ever believe them again. Or of something much worse.
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InfoMinister Donating Member (546 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. They're Already Trying To Pull That Trick
by using another memo that was released later that the Brits are saying is fake.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-05 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
36. Maybe if the runaway bride had mentioned it in her phone call......
It Beats The Living Shit Out Of Me.
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thecorster Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-05 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. oohhh! runaway bride!
what a fun story, can you provide more links for that??!! :sarcasm:
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-05 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
39. BECAUSE THE MEDIA PROFITS OFF OF WAR
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-05 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
40. AAAAaaarrrrgggghhhhh!
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-05 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
41. Because they would have to admit they "whored for Bush and their owners."
Look at all the pundits and established journalists/reporters who have spent years building their reputation on Clinton's downfall...who will be caught out. They have to wait until they can find a way to gently begin to switch sides. Having been "caught out" in a lie...isn't pleasant for anyone but for the Media Whores they will lose their credibility and their $$$'s that they've been getting "under the table" from the RW Think Tanks for years. They are waiting for the moment to do their "Mea Culpa" where they suffer the least damage. :-(
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brettdale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-05 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
42. Good List of people to send it to
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
44. Media Matters Takes Up The Case...
Edited on Mon May-09-05 06:24 PM by althecat
Seems that someone has been reading his mail at the Washington Post..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/07/AR2005050700942.html

....

A handful of readers last week also faulted the paper for not following up on a London Sunday Times disclosure of a secret memo by a foreign policy aide to British Prime Minister Tony Blair after a Bush-Blair meeting in July 2002, eight months before the invasion of Iraq. It said, in part: "Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam , through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."


http://mediamatters.org/items/200505090005
&
http://mediamatters.org/items/200505060007

Readers complain, but Wash. Post ombudsman mum on lack of coverage of U.K.-Iraq memo

In his weekly column, Washington Post ombudsman Michael Getler reported without comment that readers had criticized the newspaper for ignoring a leaked British memo on the Iraq war published in the British Sunday Times.

Getler's failure to offer a judgment about the Post's editorial decision is remarkable, not only because he regularly responds in his column to reader criticisms, but because of the explosive content of the memo. The memo indicates that Britain's intelligence minister reported after a trip to the United States that President Bush had decided to go to war in Iraq in the summer of 2002, and "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around" the decision that had already been made. In contrast to the U.S. media, U.K. news outlets devoted considerable coverage to the memo, and its disclosure reportedly had a significant impact on the Labour Party's loss of seats in the House of Commons.

Yet Getler simply reported that he had received reader complaints and moved on.

The Post referenced the memo only twice prior to Getler's column: in the May 5 edition of Tina Brown's syndicated column -- which appeared in the paper's Style section -- and in a May 6 article recapping Blair's re-election.

By the end of the week, readers had criticized the Post for this glaring lack of coverage. Perhaps Getler decided that because the Post's coverage was in line with much of the U.S. media, which largely ignored the memo, the Post's failure did not merit his comment. Here's Getler's minimalist treatment:


NEWSDAY RUNS THE KNIGHT RIDDER COPY
http://www.nynewsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uswmd074251820may09,0,7809270.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-headlines

GNN
http://www.gnn.tv/headlines/2758/Rep_Conyers_follows_up_on_British_leaked_memo
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PowerToThePeople Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
45. We are no longer a free nation
When is the world going to see this and call us on it? We need external intervention, no way we will achieve change from within now. Voting reform is back-burnered and probably not going to happen anytime soon..
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AnotherMother4Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
46. Because Michael Jackson is so much more important
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
48. HAVE WE HEARD FROM BARBARA BOXER ON THIS? WHY NOT?
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. I just emailed her, asking if she will start a Senatorial letter to *
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AnotherMother4Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
50. Sending e-mails out now - This is some damning information
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