Ya GOTTA read this: PNAC doc on defending Iraq War

[BeHereNow]

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraq-042005.pdf
Sorry, I would post some snippets, but I don't know how to do that
with a PDF doc.
Talk about SPIN!
Check out page 104 in particular...ROLF!
Methinks they dost protest too much...
ROLTHFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
BHN

[Roland99]

1. Click the Select Text button when viewing a PDF

From page 104

DID THE ADMINISTRATION CLAIM the Iraqi threat was imminent, in the sense that
Iraq possessed weapons that were about to be used against the United States? That is the
big charge leveled by the Bush administration's critics these days. It is rather surprising,
given the certainty with which this charge is thrown around, how little the critics have in
the way of quotations from administration officials to back it up. Saying that action is
urgent is not the same thing as saying the threat is imminent. In fact, the president said
the threat was not imminent, and that we had to act (urgently) before the threat became
imminent. This was well understood. As Senate Democratic leader Tom Daschle said on
October 10, 2002, explaining his support for the legislation authorizing the president to
go to war, "The threat posed by Saddam Hussein may not be imminent, but it is real, it is
growing and it cannot be ignored."
One reason critics have been insisting that the administration claimed the threat from Iraq
was imminent, we believe, is that it is fairly easy to prove that the danger to the United
States was not imminent. But the central thesis of the antiwar argument as it was
advanced before the war asserted that the threat from Iraq would not have been imminent
even if Saddam had possessed every conceivable weapon in his arsenal. Remember, the
vast majority of arguments against the war assumed that he did have these weapons. But
those weapons, it was argued, did not pose an imminent threat to the nation because
Saddam, like the Soviet Union, could be deterred. Indeed, the fact that he had the
weapons, some argued, was all the more reason why the United States should not go to
war. After all, it was argued, the likeliest scenario for Saddam's actually using the
weapons he had was in the event of an American invasion. The current debate over
"imminence" is an ex post facto attempt to relitigate the old argument over the war. The
non-discovery of weapons stockpiles has not changed the contours of that debate.

But, the formatting can get screwy when you paste it.

Guess the PNAC fvcks haven't seen these videos:

Bush Debates Himself
http://www.lisarein.com/videos/tvclips/dailyapril2003/4-28-03-bushvbush-sm.mov

Catching Cheney in a lie
http://video.lisarein.com/dailyshow/june2004/06-21-04-cheney-fib-all.mov

Rumsfeld dumbfounded and contradicting himself
http://www.lisarein.com/videos/tvclips/dailyoct2003/10-23-03-daily-rumsfeld.mov

And how about Condi Rice looking like an idiot? (With bonus footage of Bush)
http://video.lisarein.com/dailyshow/july2004/elections/07-13-04-daily-election1.mov

[BeHereNow]

2. Oh, You SO ROCK Roland99!

Thanks for the tech intervention- I SO
wanted to paste that but could not figure it out.
THANKS!

Check out the Clinton references too-
Seems the Clenis is to blame too, according to
the pasty-plump white boys club...
I repeat
ROOOOOOOLF!!!
BHN

[Just Me]

4. Oh, bullshit!!! The history revisionists asserting history revisionism!

:grr: They could (prolly do everyday) CON themselves into believing their twisted rationalizations!!!

YOU LIED!!! PEOPLE DIED!!! YOU HAVE BETRAYED YOUR COUNTRYMEN, DECEIVED THE WORLD, FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR OWN DISGUSTING ARROGANCE!!!

Low-life, destructive, self-centered fascists!!! :rant:

[Eloriel]

30. Now in THEIR minds, IF they've lied (and it's probably debatable to

them), it was not only justified but their actual obligation to do so.

My obligatory collection of NeoCon links, in which their philosophy is explained thanks to scholar Shadia Drury's wonderful work:

One more time: LEO STRAUSS AND THE NEO-CONS
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=7200&forum=DCForumID70&archive=yes
WAKE UP! - Strauss / Neocons and Terror PLUS dire warnings
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1780890#1781801

Leo Strauss and the Noble Lie: The Neo-Cons at War
http://www.logosjournal.com/mason.htm

Straussian.net -- Leo Strauss and the History of Political Thought
(with Discussion Forums! Book Reviews and a News Blog)
http://www2.bc.edu/~wilsonop/strauss.html

Leo Strauss' Philosophy of Deception
By Jim Lobe, AlterNet. Posted May 19, 2003.
http://www.alternet.org/story/15935
linked to from this thread: Has Straussian ideology permeated the GOP?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2121269#2122935

Eurolegal Services - Neoconservatives
http://www.eurolegal.org/useur/usneocon.htm

[Jacobin]

5. BWHAHAHAHAHA

My head is spinning around reading this .....this is so fucking funny and it would be a real howler if there weren't so many people dead and maimed because of these morons.

[BeHereNow]

7. I so agree- it is pathetic and sad on that level-

It is a howler in the light of the fact that they even
wrote and published it, but truly sad when you consider
the enormous waste of human life connected to their
idiotic justifications attempt.
BHN

[LittleClarkie]

17. Gee I thought nuance was supposed to be bad

Hm.

[izzybeans]

35. Oh what do they say, "When your argument has no basis you must

obfuscate with a long litany of words that distract the public from the point of the critique. Parse words, such as the semantics of imminent and urgent, so that the masses will fall betwixted and between the truth of the matter and the long drawn out sentences you construct to confuse them; rendering them senseless so that no one might understand the original intent. They just know they don't agree with the truth any more and your point, whatever it is, might have some merit hidden somewhere in the middle of all those darned words. What was the point again?" :sarcasm:

Or, is it what "they" call BULLSHIT.

Here's my poker face: :silly:

What a nuanced understanding of language these PNACers display all of a sudden, isn't it? Before it was so simple. The world was so black and white for them. This quote above is excellent evidence of them backsliding and feeling unsure of themselves. Awesome.

[drm604]

36. Excuse me?

"Saying that action is urgent is not the same thing as saying the threat is imminent. In fact, the president said the threat was not imminent, and that we had to act (urgently) before the threat became imminent. This was well understood."

Are you shittin me?

:sarcasm: Oh, OK now I get it. The threat wasn't imminent, it wasn't actually an "imminent threat". Of course it was urgent that we act before it became imminent. The word "urgently" of course implies that it could become an "imminent threat" at any time if we didn't act. So I guess that means that an "imminent threat" was imminent. It was an imminent "imminent threat" rather than simply an "imminent threat". Yea that's the ticket, I'll buy that. No dishonesty there, nosiree Bob. :sarcasm:

[BeHereNow]

3. I'm kickin' it 'cause-

It's REALLY, REALLY worth the read.
Also, interesting to note that the pasty-white boy's club
even feels the need to post it...
This from the fat boys who never explain or answer to
any allegations of wrong doing.
Think about it.

BHN

[hiley]

32. all need to see this !

kick:kick:

[libertypirate]

6. This is some BS

I think they call this drowning.


"Then came the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. September 11 shocked the nation, and it shocked the president."

Well they sure seem to be in the presidents head.

So shocked he continued to read that stupid fucking goat book. We all saw the video you idiots.

[Just Me]

8. I'd call it,...."clawing" by the cons.

They USED others' flesh and blood to fulfill their sick "vision",... drawing everyone into humanity's lowest common denominator. :puke:

EW! I hope they burn!!!! Considering the hell they've imposed upon so many millions of people,...they deserve to burn!!!

[BeHereNow]

9. No, you see it really is NOT their fault...

According to them, it all started with the CLENIS.
They had no choice, don't ya know?
BHN

[Just Me]

13. Oh,...I see more clearly now. They are professional victims,...

,...the kind that FEEL justified in lashing out at anyone in their way (and known as abusive bullies in the domestic abuse world). However, they don't just kick the dog or beat the spouse/kid out of frustration in "being a victim",...they vindicate themselves by destroying millions of lives in order to desperately fill their bottomless pit of vengeance.

Q: Why did I advocate deceiving and manipulating the American people?

A: Cause Clinton pissed me off and ruined my life.

Q: Why did I advocate channeling American limb, blood, life and treasure towards a few that serve my career.

A: Cause Clinton pissed me off and ruined my life.

Q: Why do I continue to justify my actions which resulted in the death of over a hundred thousand innocent human beings, the crippling and maiming and starvation and suffering of millions, the emotional scars upon hundreds of millions, the adverse impact upon a billion or so human beings?

A: Cause Clinton pissed me off and ruined my life.


These assholes wouldn't know "personal responsibility" if it kicked them in their teeth!!!! Black-holes,....they are,...black-holes.

[BeHereNow]

21. Brussels Tribunal site

yeah, they are victims for sure- and SOME people
on the planet think they should be held accountable
Check out this page- it is WONDERFUL!
They want to go after PNAC for their crimes.
http://www.brusselstribunal.org/platform_text.htm

Excerpt:
'Accusation'

We believe that the PNAC program, put into practice by the Bush War Cabinet, leads directly to violations of international law, thousands of unnecessary war victims, and the destabilization of the entire planet in a social, political, and humanitarian respect. It is heading for an unheard of militarisation of the world. This New American Hegemony is in fact a way to serve the glory of the oil industry and military industrial complex (with which many PNAC members and Bush aides are closely linked). This policy threatens world peace in a sustained and severe way. The Ôbill of indictmentÕ may provisionally be phrased as follows: ÒThe Project for the New American Century and its members, especially PNAC's key figures in the Bush War Cabinet, have been preaching, planning and committing crimes against international law and against humanity.Ó

Even if PNAC has only been producing discourse and therefore could and will invoke "free speech", we believe that their speech acts are performative: it is an intention for action. Such speech acts are not merely free speech. They are the source of actions. The actions that directly followed from the PNAC discourse and its translation into "The national Security Strategy of the United States, signed by president Bush (september 2002), are inadmissible. The most important ones are listed below:"
continued at link
BHN

[Just Me]

27. They REJECT international agreements, contracts and laws.

So, naturally, they clearly have no concern about violating them. "Normally", they would be held fully accountable for such breaches of contracts and agreements and laws,...under our own laws,...our own CONSTITUTIONAL laws,...

But, they have "shocked and awed" all human decency and dignity with their imperialistic bulldozer. They are utilizing the same Goebbels shit to exploit their party's weak need to be all-powerful.

This whole episode in human history, in American history,...is simply humiliating. Yet, the hidden abuses by (politically inspired/controlled) US mutinational corporacrats is being more forcefully revealed by these neoCONs' bullshit ventures.

I'm not a violent person but I do PRAY for a physically destructive disease to invade the bodies of these horrible people whose hearts are so teeny as to exclude the rest of humanity. They deserve suffering what they have imposed upon the innocents who never harmed them.

[Dirk39]

10. One quote from Richard Perle...

One of those "real men" was Richard Perle, a founding member of PNAC, who has been quoted as describing America's "war on terrorism" in these words:

This is total war. We are fighting a variety of enemies. There are lots of them out there. All this talk about first we are going to do Afghanistan, then we will do Iraq.... his is entirely the wrong way to go about it. If we just let our vision of the world go forth, and....just wage a total war...our children will sing great songs about us years from now.>31
Quote: David Ray Griffin: The New Pearl Harbour, Chapter 7


The "Vision for 2020" document engages in no sentimental propaganda about the need for the United States to dominate space for the sake of promoting democracy or otherwise serving humanity. Rather, it says candidly, if indiscreetly: "The globalization of the world economy...will continue with a widening between 'haves' and 'have-nots.'" In other words, as America's domination of the world economy increases, the poor will get still poorer while the rich get still richer, and this will make the "have-nots" hate America all the more, so we need to be able to keep them in line. We can do this through what the advocates of this program originally called "Global Battlespace Dominance." Because some people found this term too explicit, the preferred term today is "Full Spectrum Dominance" (which provided the tide for a previously quoted book by Rahul Mahajan). This term means not only being dominant on land, on the sea, and in the air, as the US military is already, but also having control of space. Discussing this "American project of global domination associated with the weaponization of space," Richard Falk says: "The empire-building quest for such awesome power is an unprecedented exhibition of geopolitical greed at its worst, and needs to be exposed and abandoned before it is too late.">42


If anybody needs more proof that they are Nazis, but even more dangerous, then I don't know what more do we expect from them to openly admit.

We should do everything to completely remove this Lumpen-Bourgeoisie from power and put them to judgement. And if the democrats don't decide to really fight them, instead of to collaberate with them or downplay them, we should forget about the other part of the self-entitled elite, the "Democrats".

They know more than we do and they don't do anything against them at all. We must stop these criminal-facist-scum of the earth.

Hello from Germany,
Dirk

[Dirk39]

11. A remark

For those, who didn't study the Nazis, this is the first time, someone openly did declare a "total war" since Goebbels. One would at least expect that they use other words, but that's too much too ask for.

I wish I still live when these state-terrorist-criminal-facists are judged to dead in a kind of Nuremberg-Trial.

Dirk

[BeHereNow]

12. Gary Schmitt- PNAC loudmouth

Speaking of NAZI types- how astounding is
it that Gary Schmitt, a descendent of CARL SCHMITT
is one of the most prolific contributors to the drivel
posted on the PNAC "What's New" section.
Have you READ his facist diatribes there?

Sadly, most 'murikkkans don't know who Carl Schmitt was
and will never make the connection Gary Schmitt has to him.
BHn

[Dirk39]

15. I know Carl Schmitt very well...

Hello BeHereNow,
many Americans seem to know Leo Strauss, but he's just an amateurish follower of Carl Schmitt, who might be the most important fashist philosopher during and after World War II. He's still very influential.

You're the first one on DU, who did ever mention his name. He was one of the most influential, if not THE most influential jurist during the Nazi-Times, although he was "catholic". And he was even more influential behind the scenes after the Nazis.
I guess one of the reasons, most Americans did never hear about him, is that Leo Strauss would have lost all of his credibility, if he would have mention the name of his teacher too often.

Thanx for your post, I will have a close watch at Gary Schmitt.

Dirk

[BeHereNow]

18. Gary and Leo Strauss lead back to Carl.

do a search on all three names...
or better yet, go to http://www.namebase.org
and do search on their social network web...it gets real scary.
BHN

[Frederik]

42. He's a DESCENDANT of the Carl Schmitt?

and he writes the same fascist drivel for PNAC? Jesus Christ, they really are unapologetic bona fide Nazis aren't they.

[Just Me]

16. Prince EVIL Perle wanted poppy to begin the apocolypse,...

,...and he quit as deputy defense when poppy failed to wage the "final battle".

Perle is an evil idiot. He was the first to engage in profiteering off jr's war in the ME.

Just look at him,...look in his eyes,...do you see a soul in there? No? I didn't think so. He wants to deliver death!!! He is an empty, sick entity,...and should be institutionalized for the protection of himself until he dies.

[hiley]

33. Dirk

thank you.

"If anybody needs more proof that they are Nazis, but even more dangerous, then I don't know what more do we expect from them to openly admit."

could not agree more,
marilyn

[understandinglife]

14. The Neoconsters know they are going to go down, hard. And, no ...

...amount of revisionism is going to save them.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - STOP THE ATROCITIES; INDICT AND PROSECUTE BU$H AND ALL HIS NEOCONSTER CO-CRIMINAL BUDDIES

[Just Me]

19. They not only lack the courage to face their own demons,...

,...they lack the integrity to be honest.

They are weak, vicious F-R-A-U-D-S who are responsible for the worst destruction of the American people and the United States of America since Reagan in his early years (when he was being USED by the same bunch of corporacratic, theofanatic, fascists).

THEY MUST BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR BEHAVIOR!!!!!

[BeHereNow]

22. Read the Brussels Tribunal link I posted above-

Not EVERYONE on the planet is going to lie down
for the PNAC.
The Brussels Tribunal is AIRTIGHT in their position.
BHN

[understandinglife]

24. BeHereNow and "Just Me" it is a privilege to communicate with both of you.

Thank you.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - WE WILL PREVAIL, SOON

[BeHereNow]

25. Well, back at ya-

Thanks for that.
BHN

[Just Me]

28. The privilege is mine.

Be patient, I say,...WE WILL PREVAIL!!!

:hi:

*LOL* I'm usually in bed several hours ago. Insomnia. Might as well be productive *grin*.

[Dirk39]

20. But when?

After reading David Ray Griffin's book about 911, esp. these PNAC quotes, I posted above, I thought by myself: Don't believe that they succeed. Hitler started a 1000-year-lasting "Reich". Within 12 years it was over. They don't know anything at all and they did forget about us, when they made their plans.
But then a little voice inside my head said:

But what did happen during these 12 years? More than enough for 1000 years.

They will not win, never. But what they might do, before we bring them to justice and remove them and their collaborators from power? I don't want to think about that.

Dirk

[understandinglife]

23. I share your concerns; that is why I am pushing so hard. We all...

....must do everything we can that Bu$h and his neoconster buddies don't make it to the end of 2005, and certainly never have 7 more years.

I really appreciate your cogent assessment. Thank you Dirk.
Bob


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - STOP THE ATROCITIES, NOW; INDICT AND PROSECUTE BU$H AND HIS NEOCONSTER CO-CRIMINALS, NOW

[BeHereNow]

26. All empires fail...eventually

Through out history EVERY empire has failed.
This one will too- we are already over extended in our
hegemonic strivings and that will eventually be our undoing.
Keep your eye on China- they are waiting patiently
and are the people responsible for the philosophy:
"If you sit quietly on the banks of the river, sooner or later you will
see the bodies of all of your enemies float by."
They are sitting on the banks of the river now- watching and waiting.
Think they are going to go to war with us?
No way, they don't need to- the neocons will do everything
the Chinese need to quietly become the world super power again.

BHN
On edit: Our problem is how to survive the damage they (the neocons)
will do to us as they continue their doomed quest to control the planet.

[BeHereNow]

45. Kick for the weekenders

I think this is even more important to read
with the recent Blair documents and
economic tsunami forecast.
The Empire is imploding.
BHN

[Dirk39]

29. Thank you...

But one of these things, that really make me mad is that so many Americans ask over and over again, if or if not the PNAC-fascists are as worse as Hitler was.

It's as if you ask for an authority that legitimates what you do or what you don't do. The (few) people, who did oppose Hitler, didn't ask for a legitimation and they didn't have one. They decided that what was going on could no longer be accepted.

It's as if in 1933 in Germany, people would have start to discuss if Hitler is worse or as dangerous as Napoleon or the Zar or whomever. And they would discuss it again, and again and again and again until it's too late.
None of us will get an answer from Heaven or - a bit more seculiar - from the main-stream-media.

It's up to us to make a decision.

What these people even admit in public leaves no doubts, for me there's nothing to discuss about their agenda.

We have to stop them.
And I wish a democrat like Kerry would still have the guts he had, when he did write this report for the commission about Iran-Contra many years ago.
He knows, what's going on and he's silent.

Dirk

[Frederik]

44. You're absolutely right

about Kerry. He knows what's going on, he obviously doesn't like it, but he's mostly silent about it. Appeasment seldom works when you're facing Nazis, as history has taught us.

[hiley]

31. BeHereNow

thanks for posting this, information.
www.missionnotaccomplished.us - STOP THE ATROCITIES; INDICT AND PROSECUTE BU$H AND ALL THE OTHER WAR CRIMINALS

[kiki]

34. It makes me laugh...

It must be hard to type a fascist missive when you have to insert "it can be argued" or "some might argue" every sentence... because you know you're talking shit.

[me b zola]

37. The funny part for me is..

That they published/posted this in April, not knowing that the London memo was going to be leaked, which makes them & this piece of white (toilet) paper even bigger evil liar's.

Another thing that strikes me is that the word must be getting out about who they are and what their evil plans are, so they felt the need to publish this piece of crap.

I don't believe for a minute that these guys even occasionally do the mental gymnastics telling themselves that they are creating & carrying out these plans for the betterment of America or the planet. Some people are just evil, & I believe that is what they are, just evil.

[checks-n-balances]

38. KICK - all should read this thread!!

[Martin Eden]

39. David Corn on the "Imminent" threat

Corn wrote this a year ago, when Bush apologists were trumpeting the following quote from the 2004 SOTU as proof that Bush never implied Iraq posed an "imminent threat":

Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions, politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words, and all recriminations would come too late.

Corn supplies a few Bush quotes of his own:
-----------------
In September 2002, Bush echoed a British claim that Hussein could launch a biological or chemical attack in as little as 45 minutes. (That claim has since been discredited.) In speeches that month and in October 2002, Bush declared that Iraq was maintaining stockpiles of biological and chemical weapons. He even said Hussein had a "massive" stockpile of bioweapons. And when Bush was seeking authority from Congress to launch a war against Iraq, he sent to Capitol Hill a draft resolution that stated there was a "high risk" Iraq would use weapons of mass destruction "to launch a surprise attack against the United States or its armed forces or provide them to international terrorists who would do so."

In a high-profile speech in Cincinnati on October 7, 2002, Bush said, "Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists." On the campaign trail, he depicted Hussein as a direct threat to Americans, and he noted, "We must do everything we can to disarm this man before he hurts a single American." (Note he did not say, before he is able to hurt a single American.) After a terrorist blast killed 180 people in Bali, Indonesia, Bush announced that Hussein wanted to deploy Al Qaeda as his own "forward army" against the West. At a November 7 press conference, Bush said, "If we don't do something he might attack us, and he might attack us with a more serious weapon. The man is a threat.... He's a threat because he is dealing with Al Qaeda." (At the time, CIA analysts had concluded that Hussein was not likely to attack the United States unless he was struck first.)

Even if Bush did not use the I-word he sure made it seem as if the threat from Iraq was a clear and present"right now. A surprise attack. A WMD handoff "on any given day." Deploying Al Qaeda as his own private army. It all added up to a gunning-for-us-now threat. And when the war was nearly at hand, Bush held a press conference on March 6, 2003, and said, "Saddam Hussein and his weapons are a direct threat to this country, to our people." A reporter asked Bush why other nations did not believe the threat from was "so real, so imminent." Bush did not take issue with this characterization. He replied, "I think the threat is real."

Bush depicted the threat from a WMD-loaded, Al Qaeda-aiding Hussein as immediate. If what Bush said had been true"that Hussein was sitting on a gigantic arsenal of ready-to-go WMD and was in an operational alliance with Al Qaeda"there would have been a good case for swift action. But the intelligence did not support these key assertions. And if the threat was not imminent, why did Bush refuse to consider investing another five weeks or five months in more intrusive and aggressive inspections? He could have argued that the inspections process would not work. But if Hussein was no imminent threat there was time to try. Bush's statements and his approach sent a strong signal: there was not a moment to waste. He pushed the nation to war by pushing the threat from Hussein. The available evidence does not back up his prewar assertions, and 12 words from one speech do not change that.

Read More:
http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9143

[anarchy1999]

40. Good Morning BHN! It is so nice to see you.

So true, and so well said!

"Methinks they dost protest too much...
ROLTHFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Miss you!

[Zorra]

41. Whoever wrote that shit is certifiable . Freeper Logic: 1 + 1 = lalalala

the sky is green and I hear the voices in my head my that is a pretty flower dog....lalala...kill kill kill.

How do these people manage to function in the world? They sure as hell would never be able to pass even a rudimentary college logic course.

Did they have rich parents so that they never had to have a real job?

There are institutions where they lock up the criminally insane, and these people belong there.

[Ripley]

43. That is one of the funniest posts I have read.

Thanks Zorra! :D

[oasis]

46. Kick to expose PNAC.