I'm really sick and tired of Bush being blamed on the south

[Syrinx]

He went to Harvard and Yale, and he came from Connecticut. He's a blueblood elitist asshole.

So screw the bigots that claim falsely that he is some kind of redneck.

Look yourself in the eye before you put him off on me!

He's the asshole antichrist and he comes from up north! So there!

[anitar1]

1. I know that and sympathize

Have noticed that his Texas accent slips more all the time. Cheer up--there are lots of us who are aware. I know some good folks in the south who loathe him.

[Syrinx]

3. thanks

[autorank]

97. Bush is an American Tragedy. It takes a nation to raise an idiot to power

Anyone who thinks this is correct can help one hell of a lot by supporting Howard Dean in his efforts to make the Democrats a national party and to have us seriously campaign in the South. I'm in VA which should have gone Kerry and we had virtually no media. Bring it on, in droves, everywhere but especially the South!

[enki23]

2. texas elected him governor

and the south overwhelmingly voted for both of his presidential campaigns. the people up near harvard and yale, and from connecticut, didn't.

there are plenty of fucked up republican assholes from both north and south. the south just happens to like them more.

[Radio_Lady]

5. He sounds like a Southerner and has a big spread in Crawford,

Texas. When he came into office, everything was changed to cowboy boots and barbecues.

Same thing happened with his father. His "headquarters" was a hotel in Texas, but his real home was in Maine.

I was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and my parents and I moved to Florida when I was three years old. I spent around 20 years in the Miami area, then lived in New York City for 9 years and Boston for 30 years. Now I am a resident of Portland, Oregon for the past 7 years. I have the regional accent of a Pittsburgher, honed for many years by my TV and radio career.

So what am I? The answer is: A United States citizen.

[BAPhill]

12. It's hard to get that Pittsburgh out.

I've been away for 20 years...and people still come up to
me and ask me if I'm from Pittsburgh.

[FreedomAngel82]

48. My dad is the same way

He's orginially from Michigan and we've been living down here from over twenty years. He doesn't have an accent. Bush's is all fake. All you have to do is listen to him and listen to Laura. His brother nor his father have an accent.

[Radio_Lady]

120. Yes, but it is a "modifiable" accent, and with training, I now have

no regionalisms. I still can recognize the Pittsburgh accent, however, and astound people who are from their when I recognize it.

I've been in broadcasting for many decades. Here's a cute photo of me on my first job (1957 - 58) -- a children's TV show aired in Miami, Florida. I'm the girl on the stool next to Glumbo Despair, our sad clown on the "Popeye Playhouse" and "Skipper" Chuck Zink.

http://moneycentral.groups.msn.com/millenniummadness/ftlpeoplepastamppresent.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1905

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. He doesn't sound like anyone I know.

I've lived in Texas for 12 years, my husband is a native Texan, has lived here all but 10 years of his life. Neither he nor his family have the 'accent' bush** has. In fact no one I know speaks with that Texas 'accent'. Bush** is a phoney in more ways then just his Texas 'accent'.

[QC]

32. Sounds like a Southerner? Nah. More like a Connecticut Cowboy...

...a preppy blueblood trying his best to sound like John Wayne. Honestly, I've spent most of my life in the South and traveled extensively here and never heard an accent even remotely like his.

[carnie_sf]

43. Don't foist those assholesw

off on Maine. They're from ME the same way the Rockefellers are. They are from Connecticut, same place as Lieberman, which goes a long way toward explaining their kissy-face antics.

[Syrinx]

6. maybe the eggheads up there should put their minds together

And make sure things like this don't happen instead of making fun of the results... guess that would be too much trouble.

[rpannier]

7. Maybe...

We should look at where the stronghold for the Republican Party is...THE SOUTH. Sorry, but it's a sad fact. The Democrats have like 4 U.S. Senators from the south. There are maybe 5 governors south of the Mason Dixon Line. Most state houses are run by the Republicans and most congressman from the south are Republican. And the South voted for scrubbie both times -- not one southern state voted Democratic in 2000 or 2004.
Instead of blaming the northern members of the Democratic Party for the south's failure to move away from the darkside, maybe you should look at the south.
After all, it was LBJ when he signed the Voting Rights Act and other important Civil Rights legislation who realized the south would turn against the Democrats for it. He was right.

[Stevepol]

26. The south is also the stronghold of Diebold, et al.

GA is all Diebold all the time, and the other states are unashamedly electronic voting machine, Texas included. Does this help explain why the south is so Republican? I think it does to some degree, just how much is hard to say until we regain a democracy and have a voter-verified paper ballot and required audits for all elections counted by DREs. Then, Texas will again be able to elect some good Democrats and the whole complexion of politics will undergo a sea change.

[FreedomAngel82]

49. I think so

Malloy has talked about this once I remember. Georgia had Senator Max Cleland and governor Roy Barnes who were both democratic. I've known of Mr. Barnes for a good while and then out of nowhere he's not governor? I find that hard to believe.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

54. The Corp HQ for Diebold is in Ohio. Months before the 2004 election...

...the owner of Diebold guaranteed Ohio for Herr Busch.

And Ohio is not the only state outside of the South to have electronic voting machines...not by a long shot.

[Jo March]

75. Right - some states are red of course

But Diebold and political abuses are rampant down here in the South.

I question how truly red the Southern states are.

[QC]

30. The plains and mountain states are much redder than the South,

but hey, when did mere facts ever matter around here?

[ultraist]

63. Exactly! Why bother with the entire map when you can blame the South?

Kerry would have won if OHIO had voted him in.

[Canuckistanian]

125. Yeah, I don't get that

Both he and his father were from the most elite circumstances possible in the US and yet convinced TEXANS that they were just one of the folks.

Fool me once.....

[punpirate]

4. The South didn't feel any shame...

... about giving him their electoral votes, though, did they?

:)

The majority in the South thought he was one of them--or, at least, they thought he agreed with them.

Face it--it's not about Bush being from the North--it's about the South (and a lot of other places) being stupid enough to believe his hokum.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

56. If anyone actually believed what you posted...

...they would be completely ignorant.

How many times do people have to be told that the NeoCon Rightwingers control the voting machines and the results they produce? What is it that seems to cause people like yourself to ignore that particular salient point?

Do you really believe that a majority of Americans, regardless of where they live, voted FOR Herr Busch and a continuation of NeoCon policies?\

I stood in the longest voting lines I've ever seen here in Alabama, and everyone was talking about getting rid of Herr Busch. I was very surprised to learn later that day that the GOP had supposedly carried the state by such a large margin, or even carried the state at all.

But keep on blaming the South...be as divisive as you can possibly be. That will really help creating a movement with the end-goal being the removal of the NeoCons from every political office they now occupy.

[Jo March]

77. I waited in a line for 2 1/2 hours in NC

There was a buzz in the line about getting rid of *. Same thing throughout the areas of NC where I travel. Bowles seemed to be a good bet for Senator. Then bam! *, Burr and Dole take the state.

Right.... nothing fishy there.

More and more elections are being stolen across the country BUT it's easier to blame us dumb Southerners, isn't it??

[punpirate]

80. I've spent as much time looking at voting irregularities...

... as you have, possibly more. They don't explain the level of support, in general, for Republican presidential candidates over a long period of time.

What you are talking about is a single line in a single voting place that you know of, and on that you base a several-state blanket argument for voting fraud.

I do believe there were irregularities in Ohio. I still believe there were unexplained irregularities in South Florida, but maybe not enough to swing the state. I'm not happy with some of the numbers from New Mexico. But, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina, North Carolina, Texas, nope, I don't think so.

I don't think it's being divisive by calling it for what it is. The Dixiecrat contingent in the South moved to the Republicans with Nixon and have pretty much stayed there--and that was long before the advent of touch-screen voting.

It's so much easier to yell, "they cheated," than to admit that the South is a Republican stronghold and figure out how to correct that problem. Even Lyndon Johnson predicted that would happen after the passage of the Civil Rights Act, although it took less than the twenty years he predicted.

You can call it ignorance if you like. I'd call it fact. I prefer to deal with facts. Virtually every Democrat in the South around here thinks everyone is out to smear them. Maybe others are looking at the evidence in a much more dispassionate manner than are they. Here's a fact: Alabamans have voted for a Republican or non-Democratic presidential candidate in ten of the last eleven elections. The sole exception was Jimmy Carter in 1976.

[ultraist]

83. Yes we did have voting "irregularities" in NC

Regardless, a candidate cannot expect to win in a swing state if he doesn't even campaign here. Clinton campaigned in the South and won several Southern states as did Carter.

[punpirate]

100. Were those irregularities sufficient...

... to overcome the overall vote total? As I recall, they were not. It was principally an issue of lost and uncounted votes in Carteret County, perhaps numbering in the several thousand, while the vote spread state-wide was 436,000 in favor of Bush, a 56%/44% Bush advantage. So the issue of Republicans stealing the election in NC, on the basis of those irregularities and smaller ones in a couple of other counties, might be moot.

I agree that one has a much poorer chance of winning a state in which one doesn't campaign, nor does it mean much nowadays that a state would vote for its own (neither Edwards won his home state, nor did Gore in 2000).

In 1992, Clinton won five southern states--Arkansas (his home state), Tennessee (Gore's home state), Florida, Lousiana and Kentucky.

As I've suggested, the deep South has been stubbornly resistant to Democrats for a quite a while, and yelling fraud doesn't work too well in the states where Republicans have been winning long before the introduction of touch-screen machines.

I don't think any Democrat or progressive likes to see their own state go to the dark side... I was pretty horrified at Bush winning in mine, but I also know that my region is as anti-progressive as any in the country, and that the state depends upon defense spending. It's also strongly Catholic, and the bishops nationwide did what they could to influence the votes of Catholics in Bush's favor. In other words, there were reasons for the way the vote went, even if it might have changed a little because of some voting problems. The end corrected vote probably would not have changed the overall result. And, like much of the rest of the country, the people in my state will pay for that indiscretion in the coming years.

Cheers.

[countingbluecars]

8. Sorry,

Many in the South seem to enjoy claiming him. I saw a bumper sticker yesterday that read, "Bush-The South Has Risen".

[Media_Lies_Daily]

57. One bumper sticker equals "many"? Interesting.

[countingbluecars]

127. Well, if you want to get technical,

I've seen more than one pro-Bush sticker in my part of Virginia.

[ultraist]

65. MANY of us worked our asses off here in the South during the campaign.

Thanks for your support.

[countingbluecars]

126. Many means numerous.

It is a fact that many southerners support Bush. I neither said nor implied that you and many other southerners did not work hard to defeat Bush during the campaign.

[blogbear]

9. I thought he was appropriately from some 'bunk' port..

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. Texans I know

call him a carpetbagger. They use some adjectives before the word "carpetbagger" which I will leave to your imagination.

[liberal N proud]

11. The reason he move to Texas is because no one up north would

put up with his ignorance.

[QC]

33. Yet they're perfectly happy to put up with Rick Santorum, Spencer Abraham,

Norman Coleman, Tommy Thompson, and any number of other profoundly stupid, dishonest people. Interesting.

[mermaid]

41. No...We Are NOT Happy To Put Up With SANTORUM!!

Try reading the Pennsylvanai State Forum here some time, and you will see just how much we are happy to put up with Santorum up here in Pennsylvania. Truth be know, Santorum is vulnerable now, and ripe for the picking...we intend to send him packing in 2006.

[ThorsHammer]

45. Isn't he already down 20% in the early polls?

[QC]

102. Wow! Santorum is unpopular on a Democratic forum!

Who ever would have imagined such a thing?

Of course, outside DU, it's not so simple. The people of Pennsylvania have elected him to the Senate twice now, so not everyone hates him. I used to live in PA, in Gekas's district, and I can assure you that there are places there as backward and reactionary as you will find anywhere in the world. I think PA is a lovely place and enjoyed my time there, but let's not pretend it's Berkeley.

[mermaid]

130. Nope

Pennsylvania has been, quite accurately - by the way, described as Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, with Alabama in between.

That's not too far from the truth.

[Lindacooks]

112. Hey, Coleman won because Senator Wellstone was killed.

By the BFEE. And that election was very shady - the state counted absentee ballots when the person voted for Coleman, but DISALLOWED all the absentee ballots for Senator Wellstone. If those ballots had been counted for Senator Mondale, Coleman would have lost.

And, of course, Tim 'Butthole' Penney helped ruin things by splitting the vote. I can't believe I used to like that guy.

[B Calm]

13. I don't blame the south for not wanting to claim him, but the man

was the governor of Texas, not Maine..

[Media_Lies_Daily]

72. BFD. He was born in CT to a line of New England blue-bloods....

...and there's not a thing anyone can do to disguise that.

[DistressedAmerican]

14. The South IS Largely To Blame For Bush. Sick of it or not.

I couldn't care less where the guy comes from. I blame the south based on the electoral map. Not much blue down there. A few damn red states are located in the north. But, NO blue exists in the south unless you count southern California.

I'll stop blaming the south when the electoral map stops looking like this:



Until then I say, "It Has Happened!"



There is a reason the group that put him over the top are the Southern Baptist Convention...

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ultraist]

79. I disagree. Kerry is to blame. He did not campaign here.

BAD MOVE on Kerry's part.

[DistressedAmerican]

82. It would have been a waste of his resources...

Please tell me what of the southern red states would have gone for him if he just spent more time there?

[ultraist]

85. Well, we will never really know will we?

Possibly NC, VA or WVA, maybe even TN.

Clinton and Carter both pulled in several Southern states because they CAMPAIGNED here and ran ads, UNLIKE John Kerry.

Kerry had money left over after the campaign ended. What better use of his, rather OUR resources than to try and swing a state?

[DistressedAmerican]

128. If we will never know. Your assertion is a bit suspect, no?

I'm no Kerry defender. He was a loser. I was pissed off and saw the writing on the wall about him the day he locked the nomination. Despite that, Bush IS largely the south's fault. the stats are not in dispute on that.

[QC]

103. There's more to politics than the White House.

It does no good for state and local parties when the candidate makes a big song and dance of "writing off" a quarter of the nation. There are still quite a few Democratic governors and legislatures in the South--it would be nice to hold on to them, don't you think? Or would you prefer that our party be limited only to parts of the coasts and Chicago?

[Shell Beau]

124. Maybe none, but he may have reached some that do not get off

of their asses to vote. If it's not important to him then why should it be important to the southerners. Maybe they felt like he didn't care about them. They weren't swing states!

[politicasista]

91. Why don't you blame the campaign?

I don't remember Gore winning a southern state either. And I like Gore.

[ultraist]

99. Perhaps it was the campaign but it was KERRY'S campaign

It was his call in the end. Maybe he relied too much on MBC or others. I don't know the particulars.

[d_b]

101. Love it.

[Syrinx]

139. that map tells me that almost all of the nation is "red"

Which tells me more about technology than viewpoint.

[Jose Diablo]

15. The way I see it is like this

The core of the Republican party in modern times (1900 to today) has always been pretty much what we see today, business people wanting to win favorable laws toward businesses.

What has morphed and changed its name is a faction that used to be within the Democratic party. That faction is the right wing or conservation portion of the Democratic party that in the 50's-70's was anti-union, anti-integration. This portion became the ultra conservative portion of the Republican party as the southern dixiecrats switched to the Republican party.

Notice how Reagan kicked-off his run for the presidency in Mississippi?

These democrat turned republicans are the power base of Bu$h. Without this block of voters, Bu$h and the Republicans couldn't win a slot as dogcatcher.

If the Democratic party is to ever regain power again, it must retake the south.

Edit: Dean has the right idea I think. Retaking the south will be like trench warfare. Grassroot efforts to win, precinct by precinct, county by county, state by state until the south is blue again. But this cannot happen at the cost of losing California, New York and the union base in the midwest.

It will be a hard slog.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

16. The latest budget,,,

A repuke budget, through and through, that cuts a vast swath through small business fundings and initiatives can easily be used to make a great case against the repukes, when contrasted with their massive subsidies of mega-corps, like the oil industry.

What this oil pirate administration is doing is gutting the economy for the oil industry's benefit. It is The Revenge of The Oil Field Trash.

[Jose Diablo]

20. Very good observation

The current Republican party is not really looking out for the small and medium size businesses.

This could be a wedgy in the Republican party. Small versus the huge company government supplied perks.

However, it will still get down to removing many of the power brokers in local communities in the south before the Democratic party can get the upper hand in the booths. I am taking about the brokers that own county appropriations for businesses that pave roads, build county buildings, these are the guys that need to be expunged from government jobs.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

22. Sure.

But that is doable. Dean's "trench warfare" strategy identifies just that.

[Jose Diablo]

25. You know, thinking about this

Bu$h gets a lot of his campaign money from those small businesses, the ones feeding on the county level money and federal money shared with the local money supplied from Representatives/Senators at the federal level.

Notice how many times Bu$h rides Airforce 1 to events in localities to host $1000 a plate speeches? Those $1000 events are paid for by local power brokers that feed on federal money spent on local projects.

Yet Bu$h's view of the world is one of self-suffiency, every man for himself kind of world view. This is in direct conflict with those feeding on the federal money spent at the local level.

We can see all of this with the cutbacks in health, education and welfare to just name a few.

Bu$h is diverting money spent on the local level to his military contractors. But what about his supporters that feed on the other money he is diverting? They are supposed to get their money exclusively from local taxes now? It won't work, there is not enough money at the local level for those projects his supporters need to stay solvent.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

17. Whoops, wait a minute, I come from Connecticut, and take exception

to your claim that we spawned the Shrub, because, we didn't. It was Maine. You have to forgive the Mainers though, because, at least they knew enough to sloth him off to Texas as soon as humanly possible. Now, Texas is really to blame for not squishing his political ambitions right off the bat. Why they let this little weasel run their state and jump from there to heights unearned is unfathomable.

[carnie_sf]

44. No, it was you

W was born in New Haven, and the Bushes have been long time residents of CT. Maine doesn't have to claim responsibility for every asshole who buys a summer place there.

[fleabert]

18. damn right he ain't from the south, and he sure as shit ain't from Texas!

fake fucker. ;-)

[mmonk]

19. He came originally from the north,

ended up in the south and supported by the western plains as well as the south.

[DistressedAmerican]

21. As I Noted In A Previous Post. Who Cares Where He Came From?

Who voted for the pig??? Stop dodging the core issue.

It matters little in today's america what freaking state you came from. Is it suddenly 1860 again???

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

23. Agreed.

My late uncle, a South Carolinian through and through, wouldn't have pissed on the chimp if he was on fire. And he was a real Southern Republican. And Colonel in the SCNG.

But he also knew bullshit when it was lying in the cow pasture.

[Burma Jones]

24. I figure he took stock of his weaknesses and thought they'd be

strengths down south. His Father took advantage of the south's tendency to vote against anything they see threatening their religion or peculiar institutions to start a political career in Texas. The wealthy could use southern fear to stuff their wallets at the expense of everyone else. It got going with Reagan and by the time Clinton got in, with the southern republican Congressional leadership, it was irreversible. I mean, where are the republican's largest margins of victory? The White Supremest West and the former Confederacy.

So, I do blame the south for being the breeding ground for the Chimp, I mean, we sent him to Texas as a loser and they turned him into a governor, from there he was in a position to swipe the 2000 election.........

I'm sorry that you live in a state where you are the political minority. On the other hand, when I lived in New York, there were plenty of Bushies there......

[jonnyblitz]

28. well it certainly wasn't the northeast that voted for his sorry ass

who cares where he came from, it's who voted for him! duh...

[Jose Diablo]

29. Where are all the voices that before the last election

were claiming; forget the south, we don't need it.

Many may not like it, even hate it, but the truth is this party ain't going anywhere unless the south is invited too.

When the campaign money is divided up to do the most good, to insure victory, you better be sure to share some with those people fighting in the south, not because you may want to, but because you must.

[ultraist]

68. Right. TOO BAD Kerry WROTE OFF THE SOUTH

And didn't have time to campaign here. And didn't use up OUR DONATIONS to run commercials here. And didn't PAY enough staff to run campaign offices here.

Kerry said during the primaries, "We don't need to win any Southern states." Then proceeded to NOT to spend money here to speak of, even though he had plenty of it! How much was left over?!?!

[mermaid]

31. That May Be So...

BUT...most of the goddamn Red States ARE down SOUTH!!

And I lived in Texas when Shrub was the Gubnor. I only moved back to Pennsylvania about a month ago...and if you ask me why, I can sum it up this way...

The warm political and social climate up here finally won out over the warm WEATHER climate in Texas. I had finally had it with putting up with bigots and assholes denying me a job or a livelihood, just because I am trans-gendered.

I spent 11 fucking months in Texas at the end, un- and under-employed, before I finally gave up! Guess how long it took me to find work in Pennsylvania? Two WEEKS!! Now, you can't mean for me to believe the economy is THAT MUCH better up here?!!? Bullshit! The difference is...up here, there are a lot less intolerant, redneck, Bible-thumping, discriminatory assholes...like Bush, and those who support him...most of whom come from the SOUTH.

Bush may not, himself, be a Southerner...or a Texan...but it damn well WAS the SOUTH that gave us Bush!!

Suck up and own up to the fact that the Southland is, largely, full of intolerant Bible-thumpers.

[Jose Diablo]

42. I wasn't going to point this out, but I think it is important

since you yourself have brought it up.

It was the Republican party that made gay rights an issue this last election. You can search and search, in any part of the country and I doubt you will find any Democrats against gay rights, even to the point of civil unions.

I myself do not care one way or the other about gay rights. It makes no difference whatsoever with me. If gays want the protection that civil unions would give them, sure why not? It's the right thing to do. However, it does matter to those people, the 'bible thumpers' as you call them. Why not throw in the NASCAR dads also while you are at it?

Like I said before, the Republicans made this a issue, not the Democrats. However, we hear an anecdotal example of how hard it is for a trans-gender person to obtain a job in the south. Maybe it is because of being a trans-gender, maybe not. One thing is certain though, if Democrats were in power in the south at the local and state level, it would be easier for the trans-gender people to just live their lives without being blacklisted by those 'bible thumpers'.

Now does it do any good to spout venom at the 'bible thumpers' as a Democrat or does it play right into the Republican agenda of splitting the Democratic party?

Here is the truth, if I were running for an office in the south and I was forced to throw either the 'bible thumpers' or the trans-gender over the side of the boat, who do you suppose I would chose? And if both the Republicans AND those trans-gender people make it an issue, force me to chose, as a politician what choice would I have?

It takes two sides to make an issue. Some issues do need to be fought, but isn't it better to fight the issue when there is at least a chance for success? If the 'bible thumpers' are in control you will lose. If there is a religious moderate in control, you will win. Do you want a Republican 'bible thumper' or a Democratic moderate in control.

Anyway, it worked out for you, by moving, so I guess your specific problem solved itself.

[mermaid]

46. You're Quite Correct, On Several Points

first, yes, it WAS the Republicans who made gay rights a huge issue. they did so, because it was a good wedge issue, they could use the fears of the South against those scary gay people...too continue to stuff their wallets at the expense of all of us. It's no coincidence that 11 states had anti-gay marriage referendums on their ballots for the President, also. They did this entirely to get more of their base out.

Secondly, I should point out that, in most cases, the bible-thumpers and the NASCAR dads are the same people! They are the bigoted redneck assholes that have beaten me down for over half my life. Fuck them!

And, yes...if Democrats were in power in the south, it'd be far easier for a transgender person such as myself to find work there.

I'm not so naive as to believe laws against discrimination stop discrimination. My own life experience has taught me better than that. The fact is...the social climate in the south needs to change before it would be REALLY easier to find a job down south.

As to the rest...why do we have to "throw anybody over the side?" Isn't this what compromise is about? I'm sick and tired, as a transgender person, of always BEING the one thrown over the side. And it ain't just the bigots and rednecks doing it to us, either...Plenty of GAY MEN have thrown us over the side, too.

I remember how Stonewalll started...and who was given over to the cops by whom in the end, at Stonewall. I remember ENDA, and how HRC repeatedly threw us transgender people over the side. I'm sick and tired of it...goddamn it, I'm human, too...AND MY FUCKING RIGHTS AND NEEDS SHOULD DAMN WELL BE CONSIDERED, TOO!!

The rest of this rant is a bit of a history lesson for some.

Stonewall was started when Sylvia Rivera, a "drag queen" (this is what all transgender people were called back then) threw a high-heeled shoe at a cop. Eventually, this erupted into what has come to be known as The Stonewall Riot. And a local gay bar...The Stonewall, allowed gay men inside, and helped them to slip out the back door, to avoid the cops during the riot...while the drag queens were either refused entry completely, or were held inside Stonewall, by the gay man...and then handed over to the pissed off cops as cannon fodder.

We transgender people, quite frankly, have a lot to be pissed at GAY MEN over, too...and this here is one transgender person that hasn't forgotten, and isn't likely to forgive anytime too soon. Until the fucking gay men quit selling us down the river for their own political gain!

[Jose Diablo]

110. As you said, gay men throw the gay over the side

I might point out, that according to statistics I read immediately after the last election, that among the gay community, about 55% voted Republican. I don't have the link to this information, but I am not making this statistic up.

At that time I couldn't understand how this could be. Don't the gays want to be able to enter into civil unions, enjoy the rights and protections married people enjoy. Then a thought stuck me. Maybe a sizable number of gay men do not want civil unions.

How could this be I thought. I remember a gay couple that used to live down the street. It didn't matter to me that they were gay. To each their own is my philosophy. Anyway, one evening there was a commotion in front of their driveway. The male of the couple was throwing the 'female' out of the house. It seems the house was in the males name and he caught the female with another man. Calling 'her' a b****h while 'she' clinged to his leg pleading and weeping for his forgiveness as the police were pulling 'her' off his leg to take downtown for disturbing the peace. I am sure the male followed-up with a restraining order to make the separation complete.

But the deal is this, both 'she' and he worked and contributed equally up to the time of separation for that home and its contents. 'She' lost everything and he got it all, because there is no legal contract.

It occures to me, that male gay men are kinda like straight men. Why would a male want to split everything with the female, if they separated. It is not only male gays that probably don't like marriage. Straight men, if they could get away with it would, by and large, also like a situation where a female would pay half the effort and lose it all because there is no contract if they separated.

I wonder sometimes if this is why the gay community is not monolithic in party affiliation.

If I were the female partner of a gay male couple, nobody would touch my tush unless I had a contract specifying how common property was to be divided if we were separated.

[mermaid]

131. totally Agree, Except One Small Point

It was 25% not 55% of the gay community that voted Republican.

And I don't understand the Log Cabin guys, either. It just seems to me that they are rich, and so they don't give a shit about their gay, lesbian, bi, and trans brother/sisterhood...they care only for themselves, just like any other typical Repuke asshole.

And I don't disagree that many straight men would love a situation where the woman contributes half, and then loses it all in the end because there is no contract.

I can tell you, as a female, I agree wholeheartedly, that no man would touch my tush...or my money...without some sort of legal contract in place to protect me against just such bullshit. Not that I much have to worry about it, being as I am mostly asexual, and really do not want sex, in any form...with anyone...or anyTHING.

I wouldn't mind having a companaion, and if I did, I'd want it to be a male...but, quite frankly, the only bulge in any man's pants I am interested in is the bulge his WALLET makes.

Sex? Well...if I have to...would be my general attitude. He might enjoy it...I wouldn't. I'd do it for a spouse/companion, if I had to...to make him happy...but I'd be much happier with a man like Al Bundy, who didn't seem to care much for sex, either.

Really, I'd rather companionship love and romance...togetherness...over sex. Sex, quite frankly, sorta repulses me. Then again, given my childhood experiences, I think I've a pretty good idea WHY sex repulses me...and there isn't much I can do about that. I'd need a CERY patient, and VERY understanding man.

And they seem in rather short supply. So I am likely to remain single my entire life...and that's perfectly fine with me.

[Jose Diablo]

140. 25%? Are you sure?

Strange how I would remember 55%. But I am not going to look it up. Still, 25%, That could be explained by being more concerned about money than other people, which would be a result of probably what a 'natural' quantity of votes a Republican should expect in a given population. Like being a Republican is 'natural', bah.

You know, I kinda enjoy that Bundy guy too. He makes me laugh. I thought the scene where he was teaching his son how to scam strippers in a bar with a dollar on a string was hilarious. I doubt it would actually work though. Most of the strippers I have known are far too shrewed for someone like Bundy.

As for sex, I enjoy it, when I can get it. But by and large, it is a lot of effort, with little real return on the investment. Sure there is ecstasy for a few short moments, but then it's over. But I am somewhat older now and I can look at the whole thing dispassionately. When younger, it seemed far more important. I am glad that much of the intensity of sex is past for me, in a way. Still, it would be nice to be young again. I doubt it would be the same though because today, my mind is old, so it is impossible for me to be young again, even in thinking.

As for companionship, agree totally. It would be good to just be with somebody. I spend most of my time posting on this silly board, like somehow it matters. In the end though, maybe what really matters in this world is the connections we make with others. And companionship, that feeling of being connected is what that is all about. I wonder if true Republicans ever feel companionship, probably not that important to them I would think. Pursuit of money will do that you know, make you think money is all that matters.

The things done to children in this world are deplorable. I know what you mean. I wouldn't say my own experiences are all that hot either in that regard, but I got through it. Many don't. But as I am sure you are well aware, children are the ones that suffer the most by policies these Republicans force on others. It is they, the children, that pay the price for all those greedy and selfish Republicans.

Anyway, I imagine this sub-thread is worked as far as it can be taken, take care, mermaid, good to shoot the breeze with you.

[ultraist]

69. Uh, no OHIO gave us Bush via Diebold

[ultraist]

87. In NC there are: 2585991 registered DEMOCRATS and 1912332 reg Reps

BUT, because John Kerry decided NOT to spend any money here, we did NOT get enough people registered and to the polls. We barely moblized our base.

http://www.sboe.state.nc.us/index_data.html

There are A LOT Of redneck fundies in Midwestern states as well as out West. Additionally, CA has a very large number of active Hate groups.

[depakid]

34. Hey- you Southerners elected him!

I doubt anyone in Connecticut or Maine would be dumb enough to do that- ;)

[QC]

35. Bush got 44% in CT and 45% in ME.

Looks like there's quite a few dumb people there after all.

[ISUGRADIA]

36. Quite a few but way below national average while the number

is above average in the south

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

55. It was the rural people in Maine that voted for him,

and probably elsewhere too, rural people and exurbanites. The Portland area, where most of the state's population is, voted Kerry. The rest of the state is rural.

It's an urban vs. rural/exurbs/suburbs thing all over the place. Might have to do with the guns/god/gays thing, I don't know. I wish the Bush voters would take some responsibility to educate themselves, but these are just the people that are proud of their ignorance and the ignorance of their Dear Leader as well.

[QC]

104. Bingo! It's an urban/rural thing, not this silly "red/state/blue state"

nonsense. The sooner people realize that, the sooner we can start trying to find ways to solve the problem.

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

115. I think racial bigotry in these rural areas

has a lot to do with it as well, both in the North and the South. I say this because I grew up in a very rural area in Pennsylvania and saw the racism that was so common out in the sticks.

I also have suburban relatives in PA. The ones that I know that are Bush voters are either religious fanatics or bigoted or both. These ones are people that are sophisticated and intelligent, but they love the nasty, not-so-coded messages they get about race from Rush and the Republicans.

[mermaid]

132. I Take Some Exception To This!!

I live in rural Pennsylvania, in Monroe County. This is in ther foothills of the Pocono Mountains. I can honestly say that I have had ZERO problems from the mountain men up here. No one bothers me, and yes, my neighbors are well aware of my transgender status, as I am now living in the same house in which I once lived, pre-transition, and many of the neighbors remember me that way, too.

So my status isn't a big secret in my neighborhood. Then, too, being built more like a linebacker than a lady, and with a rather husky voice, though passably female...well, I don't disillusion myself that, given enough time around me, people can figure me out.

Fact is, I have had ZERO trouble from the moutain men up here, who you could expect to be rather redneckish. I can't speak for the suburban areas, say around Philly, or that...and I can't speak to the rural areas in Central Pennsylvania...but my point is...Rural does NOT always equal redneck and intolerant.

I suspect, in my neck of the woods, being as I live near some prime hunting area, the guns issue would be rather large here...but, I am Represented in the U.S. House by an eleventh-term Democrat named Paul Kanjorski. And in a recent special election for State Representative, the Democrat, Siptroth, defeated the Repuke candidate...granted, not by much, but the fact remains I am also represented in Harrisburg by a Democrat.

So not all rural folk are intolerant, Bible-thumping, redneck hooligans. We need to reach the ones that aren't.

I grant that redneck hooligans DO seem to be more prevalent in rural areas, but - to write off an entire area, just because it is rural...is a bad mistake on our part, and we will lose many elections if we do not value the voters that live in rural areas.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

61. Right. What's the total population of the South that allegedly voted...

...for Herr Busch as opposed to the alleged total population of the rest of the country that voted for him?

Go peddle your crap somewhere else...this is getting old on DU.

[ultraist]

86. CA has FAR MORE Republicans than does my state of NC

And we don't have a REPUKE Governor here either.

[mondo joe]

37. Yeah, just because the South voted him into office doesn't mean they have

anything to do with him being there!

[QC]

105. "the South voted him into office"

You greatly overestimate our power. Bush carried 31 states, compared to 19 (plus DC) for us. The South has a bit over half of the electoral votes need to win, so somebody else must have helped him out a bit.

But like I said, above, when did facts ever matter when someone has an axe to grind for the thousandth time?

[mondo joe]

109. Sorry, but am I wrong in understanding that a plurality of

Southern states voted for Bush?

[QC]

113. All of the Southern states voted for Bush. But they account

for only about half of the electoral votes needed to win the election. Basic math would suggest, then, that Southerners aren't "100% responsible" for electing him.

As I recall, it was Ohio that put him over the top.

[mondo joe]

116. Indeed - and I don't think people generally say the South is 100%

responsible. I seriously don't.

But when you look at any split, it sure does seem the South is his biggest base of support, geographically speaking.

[HeeBGBz]

122. Oh who the fuck knows

Just because the damn tv screens turned southern states and midwest states red, doesn't mean its so. If they planted votes, they planted votes where they wanted them.

For all we know, the south could be as blue as northeast and west.

I live in a red state but I didn't fucking vote for him. I just wonder how many others can say that same thing.

Until we actually know the true vote count, no one has any right to accuse any state of "electing" the pathetic boob.

[mermaid]

133. Well....

Though I now live in Blue Pennsylvania...I lived in Red Texas when the election was held. I voted Kerry...and worked my ass off for Kerry...and U.S. Congressman Lloyd Doggett.

The results of the combined efforts of The Travis County Democratic Party Coordinated Campaign (of which I was a part) is that Austin City voted 80-20 for Kerry...whereas Travis County as a whole voted 70-30 for Kerry. But Texas, as a state, voted 60-40 for Bush.

So I feel ya. I lived in a Red State...and I didn't fucking vote for him, either.

[HeeBGBz]

141. On election night

I was watching the returns and somewhere around 9:30 that night I watched Missouri for the briefest of times turn blue. It was right about that time that things went the other direction. I was so pissed that it made me ill. Especially when the news commentators were making comments about the sudden shift to Bush after everything was leaning towards Kerry.

Evil rat bastards.

[aeolian]

39. He may not "be" a redneck, or a true southerner...

but he sure is trying hard to fit in with that crowd.

Oh, and he was governor of Texas.

[OnionPatch]

I'm sorry that progressive southerners

Have to take so much flack for their ignorant neighbors. It's not YOUR fault personally, but you can't absolve "the south" of blame. The south elected him and made all the other Republican assholes a majority down there.

[patcox2]

40. Its not where he came from, its who voted him into office.

And that is 100% the South's fault. The entire modern republican party leadership are a bunch of unreconstructed seccessionists. Every major republican issue is designed to court the racists of the south. "Radical judges who legislate" is a direct reference to the desegregation decisions of the 1950s. "School Choice" is code for "choosing a white school." Why do they hate welfare? Its not really that its welfare, they hate the fact that blacks get it.

And it worked. Bush ran a campaign of coded racism directly targeted to the gun rack and the double-wide constituencies of the south. And the south elected him, gave him the margin. Without the south he wouldn't be there.

[Tomee450]

47. Very true

My sentiments exactly. Racism, more than any other reason, is why the South votes Republican. The party is seen as anti-minority and for some people that is a good reason to vote Republican.

[ultraist]

95. Bush campaigned in the South and ran ads NON STOP, Kerry snubbed us

[QC]

108. "And that is 100% the South's fault."

No, we don't have enough electoral votes for that. But it's probably much more comforting to blame those awful people "down there" than to deal with the fact that our party is about as popular as poison ivy in large parts of the country and then do something about it.

the gun rack and the double-wide constituencies of the south

That attitude is precisely why we do so poorly among rural and lower-income voters. It is a mystery to me why so many "liberals" and "progressives" seem so determined to validate the "librul elitist" stereotype.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Shell Beau]

51. People like him live all over the country. It is not just a southern

thing. But as I can attest to (since I live in MS), it seems as though the southerners tend to like people like him. The South is mainly red.

[Qanisqineq]

106. I agree, there are people like him all over the US

even in the bluest of blue states. The rest of your post ("southerners tend to like people like him") I can't comment on since I have never lived in the South.

[Shell Beau]

117. Well MS is a red state and probably 75% of the people I know are

Republican.

[Qanisqineq]

118. By the way... Welcome to DU, Shell Beau!

I grew up in a state with a lot of republicans (ND) but most were really moderate and were just against big government. I was in MS a few years ago... talk about humid!

[Shell Beau]

119. Thank you. Humid ain't the word. They should invent a new word

for what we have here. Yeah I only know a few die hard Republicans though. People here are just traditional. Have been for a long time. Boy I wish they would wise up.

[ComerPerro]

52. He campaigned as a Southerner, as a cowboy. Enough in the South bought it

They chose to believe that he was one of them.

And, look where he got most of his votes.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

59. Aren't you really stating that enough ELECTRONIC VOTING....

...MACHINES indicated that Herr Busch was the "winner" in the South?

Keep taking shots at the South...that really helps create that warm and fuzzy feeling throughout DU.

[ComerPerro]

60. Oh please. Fine, blame electronic voting. The south rejected Bush, right?

The point is that enough people actively supported Bush in some parts of the South to, at the very least, make the fraud seem acceptable.

Maybe you should read the original post.

The poster was saying that Bush is a northerner, from ivy-league schools. A wealthy New-Englander.

But, I seem to remember him running, both times, as a Southerner, a simple rancher and a self-made man, someone you can have a beer with.

And, I seem to remember the south voting for him.

Look at it this way: Bush is a New Englander, and New England completely rejected him.

Why not admit that your area is overrun with FReeper idiots?

I have had a full understanding of the situation in Kansas for quite some time now. When people take shots at Kansas for wanting to teach creationism or intelligent design while banning evolution, I don't get offended. I know they aren't taking shots at me. Its the loonies who run the state, and who are the majority here.

Lighten the fuck up.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

67. Most of us that are Southern DUers are getting REAL tired of the same...

...old crap being peddled by people like yourself that are so eager to blame the South for the elections of 2000, 2002, and 2004.

What is really infuriating is that the TRUE answer is hiding in plain sight. The NeoCons have absolute control of the electronic voting machines, the software inside those machines, and the tabulation of the results. That is not an issue for which you can blame the South, is it? Do you really want to look that idiotic every time you post an attack on the voting habits of the South?

"Lighten the fuck up"?? Real nice response to a fellow DUer, but one that is totally expected these days from folks that want to blame the South for everything that is going wrong in America today.

[ComerPerro]

81. Fine, keep missing the point

Sorry about the profanity. I would like to take that back.

But attitude of victimization here has got to stop. First it was the Christians, who say that if you attack the fundies then you are attacking all of Christianity and are therefore persecuting them.

Now, its the same thing, but its the south.

I apologize, but you are in a very Republican area. Voting machines or not, some of those areas would have gone for Bush anyway.

And, as I said, he campaigned as a southerner.


Please, bear in mind that no one is blaming you for Bush being in office.

Just look at an electoral map. The south overwhelmingly went for Bush, almost without exception.

Yes, there is fraud.

But there are also a lot of people there who are completely buying in to Bush's bullshit.

[mermaid]

134. Well, Again

I still side with the people who say...when the Electoral Map stops looking the way it does, then maybe there will be less reason to blame the South.

Fact is...EVERY SINGLE FUCKING SOUTHERN STATE voted Boosh...including my then-state of Texas. The only "Southern" state that DIDN'T vote Boosh is California. The entire rest of the southern border of the United states was lit up RED on Election Night.

Not to say a bunch of folks in the Red States...as I was then...didn't work our asses off to try to prevent that...but apparently, in spite of our best efforts, it wasnt good enough to counter the bigots and rednecks, the gun freaks, the anti-abortion Bible-thumpers, and the racists who all vote Repuke...and who tend to live in greater concentration, in the Southern States...primarily in the former Confederate States.

[BillZBubb]

53. Too bad,

the South is the Hard Core of the Repug constituency. Until that changes, get used to it.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

58. He's a TEXAN. Most Texans are Southerners on Steriods & are one of a kind.

and I don't mean that in a GOOD way. I think Austin and a few other areas there might kind of exempt from this.

However, the Texas dissenters are some of the finest dissenters around. The people who don't buy into the bullshit and live in these areas are extraodinary and brave people.

There are a lot of Texas journalists and polticos who are very anti-Bush and speak out a lot against him.

Molly Ivins is one that comes to mind.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

70. Herr Busch was born in CT, and the family moved to Midland, TX....

...several years later. His accent is a public prop, nothing else.

[mermaid]

135. As A Former Austinite

I must agree with you. Austin is definitely "the odd uncle" of Texas, as it were. Austin voted 80-20 for Kerry. And I cast my 2004 Presidential ballot in Austin.

I now live in Blue Pennsylvania.

Let's just say that, even in Austin, too many of those with the power to grant jobs...are not the liberal/progressive type...and that there WERE jobs available in Austin...just not jobs FOR ME.

In the end, Pennsylvania's warmer political/social/economic climate won out over Texas's warmer WEATHER climate. Which is why I'm now a Pennsylvanaian.

[WI_DEM]

62. you make some good points

and I know the south is full of good people and many good democrats. And while W like Poppy is a blueblood, he also calls himself a Texan and has lived there for years and the south gave Bush all of their electoral votes and a big majority of popular votes. Take the south out of the picture and Kerry won the popular vote and electoral vote. For some reason the right wing seems to be able to pull the wool over the eyes of southerners much more than the rest of the country.

[QC]

111. Kerry won Wisconsin by only 0.38%.

Looks like Bush's act plays pretty well there, too.

[Mrs_Beastman]

64. I've never blamed it on the south

I blame coke and lack of character

[UdoKier]

66. Um... it is the south that votes GOP as a bloc...

...even when the GOP serves up the WORST. CANDIDATE. EVER.

The problem IS the south, and their desire to always choose the most awful candidate possible, so long as he's got a drawl, hates the nigras covertly and the homos openly.

And the worst culprit is my own old home state of Texas.

[ultraist]

73. BULLSHIT! What about IOWA and OHIO and other MIDWESTERN states?

Kerry didn't even TRY in the South. He wrote off the South early on even though he had the money to campaign here and run commercials!!!

The next Democratic candidate needs to pull in at least one Southern state and that is doable as well as one more midwestern state, like OHIO or IOWA.

Alienating Southerners is NOT going to help Dems to win. Sorry, but you can't make it without us.

[QC]

114. The plains and mountain states also vote as a GOP bloc.

So why do you and others like you reserve all your precious venom for the South?

Our party's problems are bigger than one region, but so long as we sit around here self-righteously declaring our superiority to those awful people "down there" we will not be able to do anything about it.

[mermaid]

137. Because

The Plains and Mountain States don't amount to shit for Electoral Votes.

What's the biggest electoral state y'all have there, anyway?? Fuckin' Colorado?? Nine electorals.

Montana, and ND and SD and WY all have a piddly-shit THREE Electoral Votes each...ain't even worth mentioning.

[Bluebear]

71. Check your electoral map. Sad but true. nt

[ultraist]

76. Consider the fact that Kerry WROTE OFF THE SOUTH

OF COURSE he didn't win any Southern states, he did NOT campaign here or spend virtually any money here.

The North certainly has their share of Republican assholes: Governors, Congresspeople and local politicians.

[Bluebear]

78. The North certainly does have their share

I'm not bashing the south, I am blaming people who say we have to change our tune for them. Writing them off and not campaigning there does us no good, though.

[politicasista]

90. I think that was a mistake

We wouldn't have bit Kerry. (LOL)

[Jo March]

74. He doesn't sound Southern either with that fake accent!!

His accent is fake! It's so fake that it is nauseating to those of us who are actually from the South.

And another thing - his metaphors are always screwed up!! Southerners - real ones - can't tell a story without some type of metaphor or colorful expression. * has to try and think of something - proof that he is not from around here!!

You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.
A cat can have kittens in the oven but that don't make 'em biscuits.

See???

He is a FAKE! A fake Southerner, a fake American and a fake human!!!

[carolinayellowdog]

84. From reddest to bluest: 2004 Bush % by state

71 Utah
69 Wyoming
68 Idaho
66 Nebraska
66 Oklahoma
63 Alabama
63 North Dakota
62 Alaska
62 Kansas
61 Texas
60 Indiana
60 Kentucky
60 Mississippi
60 South Dakota
59 Montana
58 Georgia
58 South Carolina
57 Louisiana
57 Tennessee
56 North Carolina
56 West Virginia
55 Arizona
54 Arkansas
54 Missouri
54 Virginia
52 Colorado
52 Florida
51 Nevada
51 Ohio
50 New Mexico
50 Iowa
49 New Hampshire
49 Pennsylvania
49 Wisconsin
48 Michigan
48 Minnesota
48 Oregon
46 Delaware
46 New Jersey
46 Washington
45 California
45 Hawaii
45 Illinois
45 Maine
44 Connecticut
43 Maryland
40 New York
39 Rhode Island
39 Vermont
37 Massachusetts
9 District of Columbia

[ultraist]

89. How interesting!

MANY Southern states are in the middle.

It's high time Democrats WAKE UP to the fact, that it's simply stupid to write off the South.

Had John Kerry spent any money to speak of in the South, he may well have been able to swing a Southern state or two.

In NC, we have MORE REGISTERED DEMOCRATS than Republicans.

Blaming the South for Bush is myopic. It was a Kerry campaign strategy MISTAKE.

[carolinayellowdog]

94. Only 3 of 15 reddest states are Southern

in the sense of being ex-Confederate; Oklahoma is marginally Southern but more Great Plains-- which is the real Republican stronghold.

I've never seen such a combination of statistical ignorance and stereotyping/scapegoating as in these discussions. Many DUers seem not to understand that there is any difference whatsoever between "all Southern electoral votes went to Bush" and "every single Southerner voted for Bush." Or, if they do understand it, they willfully refuse to acknowledge the difference and keep blasting all Southerners as collectively guilty and ignoring the real Republican stronghold states. My question to them, never answered: why do you hate and blame Southerners *for being Southerners* including the 40%+ who voted for Kerry, while ignoring or excusing the 40%+ of non-Southerners who voted for Bush?

[ultraist]

98. Perhaps they are still stuck fighting the Civil War

I pointed out that NC has more registered Democrats than Republicans but apparently, the facts don't matter to some.

If I was in the North and wanted to win the next election, I'd seriously consider spending some time in the South or another swing state during the campaign, rather than sitting home in my BLUE state and demonizing the Democrats of those swing states. It's no wonder the term, New Englander liberal elitist sticks. Snobby and rude.

It's counterproductive to bash the South, but I suppose it's entertaining for them.

[itcfish1]

88. Yes He is a Northerner

and a carpetbagger, but the south put him in office.

[supernova]

92. Bushe's public persona is a cartoon

of what he thinks a southern is, not what we really are.

[Ladyhawk]

93. Syrinx, no one wants to claim him. :D

Something tells me he'll still be in the lost and found when he freakin' dies. :)

[Qanisqineq]

107. LOL, how true! (nt)

[Ripley]

96. Hey now. Where's that great purple map?

Someone posted it recently...lemme look..can't find it!

Loved the way that there were more red counties in Ohio and Pennsylvania than Alabama and Georgia. Never mind...those would be facts.

Thanks for trying neighbor!

[Radio_Lady]

121. OT: Love your cloud avatar! I think we used to have the same --

sky scene in wallpaper which we pasted up by ourselves -- on an interior wall which had a 45 degree.

It was from Environmental Graphics.

Where did that photo come from?

[DistressedAmerican]

129. I Found This. Can't Seem To Find The Source Image...

I'll offer it up.

However, I'll say this. Those of in the northeast are holding OUR OWN. We have these bastards out numbered. We're holding down the fort own up here. We could use some help from the other regions!!!

[CTLawGuy]

123. we're not the ones putting him in office

Bush won two of 12 northeastern states in 2000 and one in 2004.

He won all 10 southern states in 2000 and all 10 again in 2004.

nuff said.

[Name removed]

136. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skittles]

138. the north does not claim bush

the south does

so there!

[barb162]

142. How about saying he's a "blueblood lowlife asshole"

I don't get the part about the word "elitist" as something about that word implies a person can read