Here is why I don't believe in the death penalty under any circumstances

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/depts/clinic/wrongful/exonerations/IL_Steidl.htm

Randy Steidl (white shirt) leaves Danville Correctional Center, escorted by, from left, attorney
Michael Metnick, his wife Patty, and mother Roberta Steidl. (Photo: Loren Santow)

Gordon (Randy) Steidl was released from the Illinois Correctional Center at Danville on May 28, 2004, making him the eighteenth person to be exonerated and released after having been sentenced to death in Illinois since 1977.

His release, ordered earlier the same day by the Edgar County Circuit Court, was based on new evidence that he and co-defendant Herbert Whitlock were innocent of the murder of newlyweds Karen and Dyke Rhoads, whose bodies were discovered on July 6, 1986, in their burning home in Paris, Illinois.

Both convictions rested principally on the testimony of two alcoholics, Deborah Reinbolt and Darrell Harrington, who claimed to have been present when Steidl and Whitlock repeatedly stabbed the victims and set their home afire. Reinbolt was charged with concealing the homicidal deaths and, pursuant to a plea agreement, pleaded guilty. She was sentenced to two years in prison.

The evidence against Steidl also included the testimony of a jailhouse informant, Ferlin Wells, who claimed to have heard Steidl say that, if he had known Harrington would come forward, “he would have definitely taken care of him.”

more

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB4B25N48E.html

Two Illinois Police Officials Ordered to Pay $600,000 Over Quashed Re-Examination of 1986 Stabbings

URBANA, Ill. (AP) - A federal jury ordered two state police supervisors to pay more than $600,000 to a former lieutenant who said he was moved to a desk job because he pursued evidence linking a political contributor to a double murder.

In issuing the verdict, the jury rejected a defense argument that Lt. Michale Callahan lost his investigations post in 2003 to deal with a feud that had developed with his immediate supervisor, defendant Capt. Steven Fermon, who also was transferred. snip

Two men had been convicted, but Callahan said he determined that the original probe had been botched. He said he was suddenly ordered to stop investigating in 2001 after learning that evidence pointing to a local businessman who had contributed thousands of dollars to then-Gov. George Ryan's campaign fund had not been fully explored. That man was never charged. snip

"As a police agency, we're not supposed to leave innocent people in prison," Callahan said after the verdict. "Politics should never, ever control the justice system."

more

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. Thankyou...

although I don't agree with the death penalty even when the perp is guilty as sin and there is NO DOUBT at all..

State sponsored murder is still murder

[hfojvt]

13. I am no longer pro death penalty

but I am not ready to go that far. The BTK killer supposedly not only killed, but also bound and tortured at least half a dozen people. The state of Kansas just decided to spend $500,000 to defend him, as well as the millions of dollars we have spent to investigate him and the millions we will spend to prosecute him.
If we could be 100% sure we had the right guy I say we do like our ancestors would have. Cost nothing more than $20 worth of rope, and you can re-use the rope.
We supposedly cannot afford LIHEAP or TANF or medicaid or soil conservation, but we have a couple million for this?
Would it be too much to ask the almighty to use some of his lightning bolts every now and them? Presumably He sees everything and presumably He cares.
Murdering a sociopath is not the moral equivalent of murdering for sport, pleasure, or in the process of committing or covering up another crime.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

18. Not at all..revenge is a much higher state of consciousness

:sarcasm:

[Capn Sunshine]

17. I've never understood the wisdom

of Killing someone for breaking the law of killing someone.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

19. hey you!

:hi:

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

21. AMEN to that NSMA,

I have yet to figure our how killing someone for killing someone teaches that killing someone is wrong................ :shrug:

[Peter Frank]

24. Amen...

I like the way fundamentalists have a selective memory when it comes to the Bible and the Ten Commandments. The Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill." -- not, "Thou shalt not murder."

And to all the Pro-lifers" who also embrace the death penalty, remember the words of the Lord, "The greatest commandment of all is to love God with all your heart, mind and spirit; and to love your neighbor as yourself." Those who commit monster sins are the ones in greatest need of grace.

Oh! And just in case you forgot, "Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord."

[NNN0LHI]

2. Here is another one

'Justice, that's all I want,' says man wrongfully imprisoned


http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-dna29.html

<snip>"On July 12, 2004, Lafonso Rollins was free by the miracle of DNA testing for crimes he did not commit. He came to court in shackles that day. He walked out of the court without physical shackles, but he was not entirely free," said Fioretti.

The civil lawsuit specifically names Chicago Police officers Gerald Hamilton and David Lemieux and detectives Donald McGrath and Raymond Krakausky for compensatory and punitive damage. snip

In the Jan. 29, 1993, arrest, police used excessive force and coerced Rollins, then a 17-year-old 9th grade special-education student, to sign a three-page confession he didn't even write or completely understand, according to Fioretti and the suit.

Rollins willingly gave police blood, hair, saliva and semen samples, but they were never tested to match the evidence found at the crime scene, Fioretti said.

more

[NNN0LHI]

3. This kids mother and sister were murdered while he was in jail

>>>Rollins' mother and sister were murdered while he was behind bars.<<<

[Solon]

4. Wholeheartedly agree...

ONE innocent life is not worth the cost of keeping a injustice system as this.

[NNN0LHI]

5. Don't forget that could have just as easily been you or a family member nt

[Mandate My Ass]

6. Illinois is horrible, but sadly there may be worse

though we'll probably never know.

I heard a guy give a talk a couple of years ago. I think
his name was Krone. He was sitting at his local bar one night
and went home before closing. After closing they found the
body of the barmaid stabbed to death in the bathroom. She
had been raped as well.

Another bar patron said he thought Krone might have
dated the woman. Krone got a visit from the cops and told
him that he never dated the woman and had friends to back
him up on that and that he left the bar well before the murder
took place and never went back.

Later he got another visit from the cops and gave DNA. Another
visit for a lie detector test, etc. Finally they charged him.
He was convicted and sentenced to death. He got a new trial
when they found out on appeal that the DA had done some shady
stuff and hid exculpatory evidence. At the new trial the same
DA did the same thing and he was reconvicted.

Finally, a rich relative who Krone never met started looking
into the case and personally paid for the DNA testing that
cleared Krone.

Despite all this, you'll hear people here saying "they shouldn't
get appeal after appeal." :eyes:

[NNN0LHI]

8. Illinois is no worse than any other state

This happens all the time everywhere. If not for one honest cop the guy in the picture above would be in jail right now.

Don

[Cuban_Liberal]

22. IL is actually far better than most states.

We actually require the defense attorneys to have capital litigation experience, pay for private investigators, DNA and othe testing, etc. . Still, for all that, mistakes happen, and the DP should be abolished.

[NNN0LHI]

7. Where are all the pro-death penalty folks?

What do you say about this shit? Nothing? Just what I figured.

Don

[Solon]

9. I guess its hard to justify innocents dying purposely....

when dealing with this issue for them. They have the indefensable position, not us, DP is neither deterrence nor justice, just retribution, and a flawed, racist system of oppression at that.

[Pithlet]

11. You will hear very little

They never have anything to say about stuff like this. They just ignore it because it doesn't fit the mold of how they perceive things.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. Silent because they are wrong about this subject

and this thread proves it

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ulysses]

31. and you get to decide that

why?

[Pithlet]

33. So, if you or a loved on is wrongly convicted

You will gladly hold out your arm for the needle. Or you'll cheer on the state when they kill your loved one. After all, you or they are only collateral damage, and are worth it so we can have the death penalty. I'm assuming that to be true. Unless you're a flaming hypocrite.

[NNN0LHI]

34. "a jury of twelve has arrived at a decision based on careful

deliberation and consideration of the evidence?"

My father who has sat as a juror on death penalty cases in Chicago has told me with a straight face that he goes into a trial with the attitude that "if the person wasn't guilty they wouldn't be there".

So I guess that shoots that theory of yours all to hell. Doesn't it?

"Careful deliberation and consideration of the evidence", my ass.

Don

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NNN0LHI]

39. ADIOS n/t

[Poor Richard Lex]

41. your father belongs in jail

by your statement he has repeatedly violated his oath as a juror. If he has sentenced someone to death with that attitude then he has blood on his hands.

you can tell him I said so.

[frictionlessO]

10. I am very anti death penalty.

Thusly I nominated.

[Jacobin]

12. I've been against the death penalty all my life

It is randomly utilized, mostly on minorities, it is not a deterrent.

Just lock them up. Quite a few on death row have been found to be innocent.

The system is totally broken.

I've been around the justice system a long time and criminal trials are NOT about finding truth...they are about a D.A's scorecard, the next election, and calming down a sometimes freaked out constituency (in other words, go arrest someone and convict them of something, and who cares if he really did it or not)

but, I guess my position is just too European for Murkins...

[H2O Man]

14. In 1967 one of my friends

narrowly escaped the electric chair. Twenty years later, a federal court over-turned his conviction. The federal judge ruled on constitutional violations; however, he has said that evidence in the appeal showed that Rubin was innocent of the charges.

Twenty years is a heck of a long time to spend in prison for something you didn't do. But he's been out now almost as long as he was in prison. Had he been executed, he'd still be dead.

[Book Lover]

15. Thank you for posting this

Justice, not bloodlust. Fairness, not revenge. No government is made of anything other than people and ideas; both are flawed.

[nonconformist]

16. If that doesn't sway someone, maybe this will

The list of countries where the death penalty outlawed, basically non-existent or only used in 'exceptional' cases is much larger, so here is a list of the countries where the death penalty is permitted:

* Afghanistan
* Antigua and Barbuda
* Bahamas
* Bahrain
* Bangladesh
* Barbados
* Belarus
* Belize
* Botswana
* Burundi
* Cameroon
* Chad
* China (People's Republic)
* Comoros
* Congo (Democratic Republic)
* Cuba
* Dominica
* Egypt
* Equatorial Guinea
* Eritrea
* Ethiopia
* Gabon
* Ghana
* Guatemala
* Guinea
* Guyana
* India
* Indonesia
* Iran
* Iraq
* Jamaica
* Japan
* Jordan
* Kazakhstan
* Korea, North
* Korea, South
* Kuwait
* Kyrgyzstan
* Laos
* Lebanon
* Lesotho
* Liberia
* Libya
* Malawi
* Malaysia
* Mongolia
* Morocco
* Myanmar
* Nigeria
* Oman
* Pakistan
* Palestinian Authority
* Philippines
* Qatar
* Rwanda
* St. Kitts and Nevis
* St. Lucia
* St. Vincent and the Grenadines
* Saudi Arabia
* Sierra Leone
* Singapore
* Somalia
* Sudan
* Swaziland
* Syria
* Taiwan
* Tajikistan
* Tanzania
* Thailand
* Trinidad and Tobago
* Uganda
* United Arab Emirates
* United States of America
* Uzbekistan
* Vietnam
* Yemen
* Zambia
* Zimbabwe

(thanks to TahitiNut for the list)

You'll note it reads like a Who's Who list of human rights abusers and corrupt, barbaric governments.

We look so out of place on that list. Then again, maybe we don't.

edit: typo

[Cuban_Liberal]

20. That's right in my area.

I know Steidl's brother, who is a retired state patrolman. These cases are 'poster children' for abolishing the death penalty.

[KG]

25. nominated.

:thumbsup:

[EvolveOrConvolve]

26. The death penalty is an outdated, barbaric act

Bush's obvious glee, while gov of Texas, at presiding over dozens of state sanctioned executions is sickening. This is the culture of violence and death that we live in. Janet Jackson's nipple (ironically on a part of the body used to nurture infant children) = bad; GTA/violence/killing/guns = okay. What kind of message does it send when people like Delay imply that violence against another is okay? And Clinton's blowjob was "bad for kids." Give me a fucking break.

[newyawker99]

27. A kick from someone who is also against the DP.

:kick:

[stevedeshazer]

28. Yes, and I'll never forget how Governor Ryan went out in a blaze of glory

When he finally had no political crosses to bear, he finally did the right thing.

The death penalty is just plain wrong, it's barbaric. That's what they did to Jesus, all you phony followers of Jesus Christ in name only, CHRINOs®.

I'm against the death penalty under ANY circumstances.

[stanwyck]

30. Most people don't realize

how hard it is to "unconvict" someone. A young man in Illinois was convicted of rape. Wrongly. The woman involved later recanted and tried to get him released. It took years. She admitted she had lied. She'd had consensual sex with her boss and was afraid her parents would find out. She was walking home, crying, when she was noticed by policemen in a squad car, who stopped her out of concern. She made up the rape story. They found a perpetrator, a young man who had spend the night drinking, partying with friends. And he was convicted. Served years of hard time. It took a lot of effort and many people working very hard to set him free. The state of Illinois refused to admit they'd made a mistake. Even the governor had to get involved. Releasing someone is extremely difficult. And it's not like TV. Defendents generally don't receive decent representation.
I am adamantly against the death penalty.

[moobu2]

32. I'm against the Death penalty,

which I think should be correctly called the murder penalty, even if the perpetrator is unquestionably guilty.

Here's a few of my reasons.

1.The victim is dead and gone and killing someone else will not bring them back.
2. No matter how much the victims family thinks watching them die will ease their pain and satisfy the human desire for revenge, it doesn't at all. True forgiveness and acceptance is the only thing that will heal victims, sometimes forgiveness might seem imposable, but it's the only cure for the pain.
3.It's destructive for society to methodically and systematically kill someone who is already in custody and no threat to anyone else.
4.and of coarse there is always, no matter how much physical evidence they have, the chance that the person was wrongfully convicted. People have even confessed to crimes for various reasons that later turned out to be a false confessions.
5. It isn't applied equally either.

[siliconefreak]

36. also against the death penalty

I think that, at the very least, DNA evidence should be required as a part of any murder case that would lead to the death penalty.

[K-W]

37. Ive never seen a society close to just enough to have a death penalty.

Certainly not ours.

[mvd]

38. A kick for a great anti-death penalty post

:kick:

[NNN0LHI]

40. There were some really great personal accounts in the this thread

Thanks for your comments too.

Don