Is there a gay gene?

[whirlygigspin]

just wondering...thoughts?

[readmoreoften]

1. You can read up some stuff on the GLBT issues room.

I suggest reading biologist Ann Fausto Sterling's "Sexing The Body" before asking the question.

What is the point of a bunch of non-scientists in the field spouting off what they think?

[sui generis]

5. ultimately it shouldn't matter

anyway, it's not all black or white either. Is there a mostly hetero gene and occasional experimentation gene?

Even so, if you were truly free to do whatever you want to get your rocks off with another consenting adult, then genes don't mean any more for being gay than they do for having blue eyes. You can choose to wear brown or green contacts, and that's not illegal, regardless of the genes that give you blue eyes, so why should how you choose to achieve orgasm be any different?

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[curse10]

6. oh please

:eyes:

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Unions]

34. Gee

Do you think it was because you started going off accusing me and others of being freepers or otherwise name calling for disagreeing with you?

[readmoreoften]

10. The real question is ...

Why do straight people feel the need to sit around and debate why people are gay? What does that mean? Do you need an excuse to accept gay people?

How about asking DUers

"What is your opinion about Race and Genetics?"
"Is there a gene for playing basketball in black men?"
"Did white women in the 50s have a gene for tea parties? Has that gene mutated?"
"Is there a gene for Christianity?"
"Is there a gene for Atheism?"


DU needs a forum for genetic scientists.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

17. A prime example of "Liberals Eating Their Own" via PC bullshit censorship

If you would read my posts, you would see that I have been personally touched by homosexuality (uncle who died closeted and of AIDS) and I'm an ally, not a foe.

Kneejerk PC attitudes are the Achelles' heel of liberals/progressives.

JB

[readmoreoften]

23. It's not a knee-jerk reaction.

If you really want ANSWERS then you need to start reading some scholarly material. Peoples opinions on a message board mean little when it comes to science.

This has nothing to do with PC BULLSHIT or censorship. Go ahead and have your thread. My point is that you will not find an answer to this question in General Discussion of DU.

[readmoreoften]

21. Sorry to be obnoxious, but I find topics like these to be minimizing

of the entire issue. They tend to ignore both science and queer history. The discussion tends to only discuss non-transgendered gay men.

I am a femme lesbian in a relationship with a butch lesbian who is in the process of changing his gender to male. Is there a part of the brain for this? There are many reasons why I am with my partner, mostly because I am madly in love. To say that I have a 'part of my brain that makes me like this' doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

If there is a 'part of my brain' then will I be less and less attracted to my partner when he transitions? Why I am attracted to other transmen, but not in the least bit attracted to biological men.

I've read all sorts of studies about 'lesbian fingers'. Lesbians are flushed with male hormone at birth, that is why they are masculine and like women. Their index fingers are shorter. Sorry, but none of my friends or myself have lesbian fingers. So what does this mean? Are we straight women with disorders now?

If they ever found THE GAY GENE it would raise as many questions as it would answers. And most definitely many gay people would not have it. What would that mean?

People look towards this GAY GENE thing as salvation. "Once the fundies see that it's biological they'll stop discriminating!" It's not true. They also believe that intersexed children are disordered, but that doesn't stop them from mutiliating them with surgery. They believe that sociopaths are 'born that way', doesn't stop them from telling them not to act on their behavior.

Really though, I suggest Ann Fausto Sterling's book. It goes a long way to 'debunk' the 'gay' gene.

Just because something doesn't have a 'gene' tagged to it doesn't mean it's not a choice. And who cares if it were a choice? Is being gay so awful that it's beyond the realm of something someone would ever choose??? I understand how the rhetoric of 'choice' is used against us. But looking at queerness as if it has an 'etiology' is dangerous, I think.

[arwalden]

3. It Would Not Surprise Me...

... if this were the case. Wasn't the gay gene named XQ-28 or something like that?

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gollygee]

13. The problem is, if a genetic cause is found

then those same people will look for a "solution" to homosexuality. Better to not worry about it and allow people to be however makes them happy.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

19. Don't buy it. Deaf & blind people are not "forced" to accept cures.

Short of Hitler, I don't see eugenics making a comeback.

JB

[gollygee]

20. I do

I think you're naive but I hope I'm wrong and you're right.

[dsc]

35. actually there is a huge contraversy in the deaf community about

coear implants. While not exactly the same thing, it is along the lines of what you are saying.

[iconoclastNYC]

56. Here's how it works

Mom and Dad get the prenatal test and it shows 80% chance of homosexuality...suddenly abortion is not murder.

No fundie wants a gay kid. If they find a test for homosexuality it will only be liberals having gay children.

[Boomer]

7. Define gay

I'm not being facetious. Human sexual behavior is complex and changes over time, according to circumstances, and is influenced even by sheer luck.

For some people, emotional ties are more of a determining factor in calling themselves "gay" or "straight" than are sexual urges. But other people might base that definition on sexual behavior rather than their emotions. And some people just take their partners as they find them, because they are attracted to attributes that have nothing to do with gender assignment.

I don't believe in the "gay" gene, any more than I believe in a "staight" gene. Just as there is no single gene for intelligence. Instead, you have a wide variety of attributes, all of which may contribute to an individual's emotional and sexual biography.

[sui generis]

12. well said -

the outcome of finding a gay gene would be higher insurance premiums or even a marker on your driver's license indicating your gayness so that you could legally be discriminated against.

The hatred of homosexuality by some is equal parts xenophobia and anger at freedom of choice. It's a stronger argument to say that even if it is 100% choice that there's nothing wrong with that. It is your own body after all, not property of the church.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

28. So true, Sui Generis. But, things aren't going so well...are they?

I agree that it would be WONDERFUL if things were determined solely on choice and universality of human rights, but unfortunately they are not. The homosexual community is getting killed in this country...sort of a "two steps forward, three steps back" situation. As a prime example, look how Texas is going to rip adopted children out of the homes of gay couples.

Idealism is great, but when you are combating pseudo-nazi fundies idealism is a failed weapon in the culture wars.

JB

[sui generis]

41. hey AWL

1. I'm not an idealist - 100% the opposite, in fact you have offended me, you angry white liberal :evilgrin:

2. if there is such a thing as a gay gene it would cause more problems than it would solve, starting with prenatal testing, "gay" abortions, giving up "gay" kids for adoption, and having your sexual orientation be another thing they test for along with drugs and bad credit before you can get a job or life insurance. That's pessimism for ya.

Other facts: legally adopted children cannot "ripped out of homes"; this new piece of shit legislation concerns foster parenting.

Quite frankly I hope that they do try to start taking children away from people who are presumed to be gay, because that's where the real shit will hit the fan. Want custody of your children in a divorce? Just claim your spouse once told you of homoerotic fantasies. Want to fuck with an annoying single parent neighbor? Just call the police and tell them you saw a mullet headed bull dyke lesbian changing her oil after breakfast one morning.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

27. gay = innate sexual/emotional attraction to same sex

How's that for a definition?

JB

[Boomer]

32. Inadequate

If a woman doesn't experience an attraction for another woman until she's over 50, just how "innate" is her atraction? And if it's only one woman, and just that woman, that has attracted her, is she still "straight"?

What if a woman who has always considered herself gay, falls in love with a man and marries him? How many incidents of same-sex versus opposite-sex attractions does it take to switch your category assignment?

If a woman is in love (as mentioned above) with another woman who is about to undergo a sex-change, is she no longer gay if they remain lovers afterward?

If a transgendered man has always been attracted to women, both before and after a male-to-female transition, was he straight before and gay later? Or has he always been a gay woman?

And what if a woman experiences strong romantic attractions to women, but strong sexual attractions to men? If the romantic is most important to her, she may enter a lesbian relationship and feel fulfilled anyway. Or, if the sexual side matters more, she may have casual sex with men and such strong friendships with women that the men are ignored emotionally. How straight is that?

"Gay" and "straight" are more policital labels than descriptions of reality.

[readmoreoften]

33. Or a femme lesbian that is only attracted to butch lesbians

and not at all to feminine women. Where's that gene?

[Boomer]

37. Raise you another gender bender

What about straight men who are attracted to butch gay women (and no, I'm not just talking about men who drool over girl-girl action)? What kind of gene do they get that other straight men don't?

[readmoreoften]

47. I dunno but I'll tell you what...

I got the hey-straight-fella-don't-ogle-my-butch-boifriend-or-I'll-slap-ya-around-like-a-tether-ball gene! :spank: }(

[sui generis]

57. that would be a trans-lesbian

clearly - a lesbian trapped in a man's body.

:rofl:

[cally]

9. Every person who I've known who has come out has

just known. Have they identified a specific gene, I've no clue. I do know that every study I've read shows that you are born with your sexual preference. It's not a choice.

I've never gotten the choice argument. It makes no sense. What about the supposedly Gay lifestyle is so seductive that it makes straights become gay. The only way you would believe that is if you were able to be seduced. That would suggest that you are not straight.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

14. Exactly! And, if it is not a choice, then IT CANNOT BE A SIN.

This is why the religious right argues that homosexuality is a learned behavior. To be otherwise, would mean that their gOD created homosexuality as a normal variant of human behavior.

Babies are believed to born free of sin by the religious fundies, so if a baby is born gay (genetics) then homosexuality cannot be a sin.

A genetic basis for homosexuality would KILL ANY ATTEMPTS to demonize homosexuality by the religious right. Sure, there would be a couple of thousand holdouts, but the vast majority of the public understands and trusts science as the arbitor of the truth. A genetic basis would eviscerate the Repuke powerbase of anti-gay religious fundie thought. Also, a genetic basis would STRENGTHEN anti-discrimination efforts for gays.

What I'm puzzled about is the relative lack of will to pursue this area of investigation and the scepticism posed by those who would benefit most from a genetic finding.

JB

[gollygee]

15. These folks will never see it as a "normal variant"

they would just spin it otherwise. They'd call it an illness caused by sins of the parents, or some other such thing, and market "cures" to torture gay teens with.

There is no good answer other than acceptance regardless of cause.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

22. Acceptance regardless of cause WILL NEVER happen with Xtianity

Most modern religions teach homosexuality as a sin, so I don't think the go-lucky attitude of "acceptance regardless of cause" is going to work on these folks. Hell, some judges are trying to institute exactly what you propose in regards to marriage and other human rights, but look how the fundies are handling these efforts.

JB

[gollygee]

24. You're talking about people who believe in "Intelligent Design"

what makes you think they'll believe a scientific cause is real?

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

29. Good point. But, I think genetics is more accessible and less esoteric.

Astrophysics and evolutionary biology are not as accessible or PERSONAL as genetics.

JB

[Finder]

11. group of genes...

The studies are fascinating and hopefully will put the matter to rest in our lifetime. There have always been more than 2 genders biologically.

Shoving people who do not fit into the male/female mold into seminaries and convents or doctors performing sexual reassignment to infants will soon be behind us. That is--if we keep up the fight against the theocracy movement.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

25. Tantilizing, Finder. Care to share more info?

Any genes in particular that I can look up and read about?

Thanks!

JB

[Finder]

45. Xq28

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/genetics/nyreview.html

[El Fuego]

16. I know a gay Gene.

[gollygee]

18. LOL

:D

[readmoreoften]

26. I have a good gay Gene pal. n/t

[DanCa]

30. Why does it matter?

Frankly to me and the god I worship it doesn't matter if a person is gay or straight or black or white (and so on and so on and scobby doo be doo be). What matters is the size of thier heart and the strength of a person's character. As long as percent is decent and treats me kindly he or she get's mine and my god's respect, admiration, and love. And I feel so sorry for anyone who has every been persecuted by the Fawell crowd when he uses my lords name in his sociopathic agenda. There's only one planet and we have got to start living with each other.

[burn the bush]

31. I beleive there is a gay Gene

and a gay Robert, and Tom. As a matter of fact, I knew a gay Eugene which is in fact a gay Gene. Case solved. Yes Virginia, there is a gay Gene.

[dsc]

36. I have no idea

I suspect there is one, though I am not a geneticist.

[Dob Bole]

38. No, I think it's hormonal.

What I have heard is that it's determined by the hormonal activity of the mother while the baby is in a certain stage of development. At one point or another, everyone is female. But I honestly don't know much about this.

[whirlygigspin]

39. thanks Bob Dole

how's the viagra workin? by the by

[sui generis]

42. actually BD's info is correct

there was some evidence some years ago that an influx of testosterone in the first days of pregnancy was linked to lesbian tendencies in females, but I forget the studies that supported that.

I think they have been mostly discredited as a false conclusion - and I've never heard more about it.

[readmoreoften]

49. Oh lord that was the funniest bunch of pseudoscience ever.

They were running around UT last year measuring lesbian fingers. If your pointer was significantly shorter than your ring on your left hand you were LESBIAN, if not, then you should break up with yer gal. None of my friends--butch, femme, or otherwise--lived up to their short-fingered potential.

Besides, as we know, all lesbians are masculine and all gay men are 'more like women.' Riiiiight. Whatever all that shit means.

I will repeat if you want the SKINNY on this, you must read biologist Ann Fausto Sterlings "Sexing the Body". It debunks a lot of the 'gay brain' stuff. You see how science slants itself to find the answers it wants.

[dsc]

40. To expand a little on your points below

I have grave doubts that discovery of a gay gene would lead to a decrease in anti gay belief among most Fundamentalist Christians. Most already admit that alcoholism is genetic and say that if homosexuality is also genetic it is also wrong. Thus I doubt it would help there. It might help with so called moderates who haven't really made up their minds on this issue.

[RPM]

43. is there a god gene?

just wondering...thoughts?

[AlCzervik]

44. Is there a straight gene?

people are born gay imo, just like people are born straight.

[OneBlueSky]

46. yeah . . . Levi 501s . . . n/t

.

[begin_within]

48. Is there a straight gene?

[Skittles]

50. of course there is

absolutely there is a gay gene

[lady lib]

51. If there are gay penguins (and there are),

then there must be something that causes homosexuality in a small percentage of human/animal populations that has nothing to do with individual choice or immorality or any of the other nonsense that fundies teach.

[Boomer]

52. And gay primates, too

I remember an anthropology professor of mine at the University of Texas, who mentioned that he had observed same-sex bonding of baboons and other primates during field studies. These couples engaged in exactly the same courting behavior as opposite-sex couples, the only difference being (obviously) that their union did not produce offspring.

Despite what was happening right in front of them, however, his co-workers would not mark down the behavior if it involved same-sex partners. Either they didn't want to acknowledge it, or they just didn't process what they were seeing, because this behavior ran counter to their expectations.

[Heidi]

53. Why doesn't anyone ever ask whether there's a 'straight' gene? nt

[WI_DEM]

54. Yes, I have gay jeans--everytime I wear them I get laughed at

[Charon]

55. Gay Gene

I remember hear this a couple of years back. Have forgotten the source. The argument ran that it was not a "gay" or "hetro" gene, but a gender preference gene. For a y chromozome individual, the default would be female. For an X chromozome individual, the default be male. Homosexual or Lesbian preference results when the gene is not in the default position. The source did not try to speculate as to what would cause the gene position. I Would not speculate on the veracity of the theory. Maybe once the entire Human genome is known and understood,(if ever), an answer to the question may be found.