Can we discuss castration?

[Stinky The Clown]

No, this is not a joke post. Neither am I espousing anything. But I've had this thought for a while. Not to get castrated myself ... so no jokes .... k? But first I need a reality check and a moral compass check, too.

What are your thoughts about chemical castration for the worst of the sexual predators in our society? I'm not talking about the statutory rapist - the 18 year old who boinks his 17-1/2 year old girlfriend. I'm talking about child molesters - actually, child rapists, really .... not the guy collecting kiddie porn (that wasn't a dismissal of kiddie porn as an issue). I'm not talking about the guy busted for peeing in some bushes cuz he had too much beer. I'm talking about the person who rapes women in a brutal way. The worst of the worse. I'm not sure where the line ought to be drawn .... but anyway ....

And what about the same thing for prisoners as a way to cut down on prison violence? Where some might be really angry about this, I'm sure the small/young man who's thrown in with muscled gang members would welcome it for everyone. Prisoner chemical castration, however, in my mind, is a secondary issue. Its the sex offenders about whom I'm more concerned.

Is chemical castration a 'cruel and unusual' punishment?

Is it unconstitutional?

It is immoral?

Is it in opposition to progressive values?

Might it be a winning issue for our side?

What are your thoughts? I can say that I, for one, am conflicted about it.

[CBGLuthier]

1. two points

For the worst of the violent ones. As in the men who rape women, I don;t think it would help as much. These men hate women. Even if you take away their sexual desire they will still find a way to brutalize women.

But pedophiles are another matter. And I mean the true pedophiles who are cursed by being sexually attracted only to children. Medicating them to remove desire and abitlity to perform may help them. I would like to think that many pedophiles realize their urges are wrong. Except for a certain (alleged) famous pedophile who doesn't see anything wrong with what he (allegedly) did.

[Stinky The Clown]

4. I understand that - brutality for the sake of brutality .......

.... and that rape is not a sexual act as much as an act of brutality. But my counter is that it could have the effect of eliminating at least one part of the rapist's 'repertoire'.

[Autobot77]

47. It dosen't help

The hate and compulsion is still there, they would find away to rape by using objects like a broom handle.

[LisaL]

85. And you know that how?

What studies have been done to support your conclusion?
:eyes:

[TWiley]

91. The Police Departments in a couple US cities use the broomhandle

to question their suspects.

[Mondon]

98. Were the police involved alreadt chemically castrated?

[TWiley]

135. No, the police were not chemicaly castrated.

But they did use the broomhandle to assault some prisoners.

[demnan]

2. I say no, no, no but I have a historical reason

This tactic was used even in the 1960s in Virginia to sterilize mentally retarded people. It was used mostly on a racist basis. I wouldn't approve of the government of my state having enough power to make that sort of value judgement. I don't trust them to be non-biased regarding race. That's all.

[Stinky The Clown]

3. Okay, I understand your bias and respect it, but if that could somehow

be overcome, what do you think about the basic concept? Again, assuming it could be fairly applied (and I grant you, there's no absolute guarantee it could be.)

[demnan]

6. But bias cannot be overcome

therefore we must lean toward the most liberal solutions to problems, even if the victims don't think it's just. Life imprisonment is enough.

[GumboYaYa]

32. The thing about "A Clockwork Orange" that intrigues me the most

is the daring way that Kubrik asks his audience to empathize with the worst sort of criminal instead of accepting totalitarian cotrol of a person's thoughts. When I watch that movie, I pull for Alex in the end simply b/c the thought that government might have authority and ability to alter the fundamental nature of a person scares the hell out of me.

[redqueen]

5. I don't think it would help much.

I think the offenders would find other ways of violating their prey in order to sate their mentally ill desires.

Life in prison, first offense.

[youthere]

25. There you go. Problem solved.

No parole. No "time off" for good behavior. No early release due to overcrowding. Life. You go behind the bars and there you die.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. That would be great, except for one thing...

our nation's prisons are much too busy right now warehousing millions of non-violent drug offenders serving ridiculously draconian mandatory minimum sentences. No more room, sorry! :eyes:

[Maru Kitteh]

44. I don't give a damn if they have to live in an orange crate

Violent sexual predators should be locked up till death. Period.

[Warren DeMontague]

58. Well would it be too much too ask that we re-examine the priority system

that lets violent rapists and sexual predators out on the street--- to make room for pot smokers?

[Maru Kitteh]

90. No, I don't have a problem with that at ALL

I think it's REDICULOUS that mostly harmless people addicted to all kinds of drugs are being locked up when they should be offered treatment while assholes in seven thousand dollar suits steal millions and get............... diddly, or a promotion, or a job as the Vice President.

[Warren DeMontague]

104. Well, that's not entirely true.

The Vice President has been responsible for the looting of BILLIONS-with-a-B.. not Millions. But otherwise we're on the same page! :D

Peace.

[Donailin]

43. Lobotomy would probably work better. nt

[Nye Bevan]

7. I was discussing this yesterday with a coworker...

For predatory pedophiles I think it is reasonable to give them a choice (after they have served out the mandatory "punishment" portion of their sentence) to either spend the rest of their lives in jail or to be castrated and released (if chemical castration, they would need to be closely supervised to check that they were keeping up with the injections).

[Stinky The Clown]

9. I'm not so sure I like the idea of surgical castration

It is a sexual death penalty. Irreversible.

[Maru Kitteh]

45. I'm fine with it - If some bastard rapes a child a sexual death sentance

is about the nicest thing I can think of that should happen to him. 'Scuse me if I don't shed a tear 'cause some sick bastard will no longer experience the joy of getting his freak on. If he rapes my kid I'll gladly cut his balls off myself.

Edited to add: With a rusty fucking knife no less. Or pinking shears.

[Cats Against Frist]

62. See smiley:

:yourock:

Great passion. I like the physical castration angle, myself. I am, however, mostly for life in prison for the pedophiles and rapists, and amnesty for the drug users.

[Maru Kitteh]

89. I agree with absolutely all of that n/t

[WindyInPA]

26. Chemical castration would never work. The states don't keep up with the

released child molesters as it is! If all of those who prey on kids positively knew they would be castrated for harming a child, they would certainly have second thoughts. Rather than keep them in prison for us to take care of for 20 years, first offense, surgically castrate them. Why spread around a bad seed? It has been proven, they cannot be rehabilitated. I think that would be a greater punishment than a life sentence.

Those who have been proven to have molested and killed a child should receive the death penalty. No questions asked, no appeals, just get the job done. As a tax burdened society, we can't afford to keep collecting these deranged individuals and provide them creature comforts when there are children going to bed hungry every night. There is always hope for a child. There's no hope for child molesters.

That's my story. :)

[newyawker99]

35. Hi WindyInPA!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[WindyInPA]

48. Thank you for the warm welcome! :)

Welcome to everyone who is new here!

:toast:

[OnionPatch]

53. Ok, then physical castration

The one group of people I have not one speck of sympathy for are child rapists. The death penalty is too good for them. They should be castrated and left to bleed to death.
:rant:

[ovidsen]

54. No. No death penalty. Period n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

70. Just a hypothetical...

what happens if someone is wrongly convicted? That's not in any way, shape, or form a defense of child molesters, but it does happen with various crimes.

[WindyInPA]

93. Mistakes have been made in death penalty convictions but this

rarely happens. I agree with you, **when in doubt, always err on the side of life**. Cases that have solid evidence or have been admitted by the accuser, no appeals, no 'I'm so sorry', the death penalty to be carried out in 30 days. This crap with the courts making plea bargains, guarenteed life sentences and looking the other way and allowing decades of appeals is in many ways how we got where we are today.

I don't want them living next door to me! I just can't find an ounce of compassion for these people. They use the court system looking for any loop hole to have *their* lives spared, for what? Did they give the children the option to have their lives spared?

Back in the day, horse theives where hanged. There weren't many horse theives because they *knew* they'd be giving up their own lives without a doubt. The fear of death for crimes of death is no longer an issue.

In today's society, **an eye for an eye** no longer applies which makes the killers rest easier. They still have a life. Many like prison life, they have everything they need. They don't work because they have a family to support, they don't pay taxes, they don't pay bills, they never worry whether their going to eat that day, they really don't worry about too much. If they don't mess with someone elses *bootyboy*, they'll last in prison a long time. If they become someone's *bootyboy* they'll last even longer!

Many of the new prisons are like motels! They have things there we only wish we had! They get to go to college, how many of us could afford to go to law school without being in debt up to our eyeballs? *We* pay their college bills! The new prisons today are not like San Quinten. They even bitch if they feel they didn't get enough food on their plates! I have been told by a prison nurse and a guard that prison food is excellent, just like from a restaurant buffet!

Do you see why something has to change? The judicial system has severely failed the very people who pay their *outragous* wages! Plus, as an added insult, we get to support and care for the same people that intentionally harmed or killed thousands of children!

This is a disgrace to our society and is allowed to take place everyday in the US!

That's my story!:)

[Warren DeMontague]

102. I'll tell you one excellent way we could change it:

Stop spending over half our law enforcement and prison dollars locking up non-violent drug offenders, and put the violent criminals away for good.

[Carni]

107. I agree with you completely

I don't know what will help the drug addicted (those that are actually addicted and who knows what that figure really is) but there is no purpose in my mind for locking up stoned people who are addicted -- or what the hell I'll say it (and get flamed)...
even the dealers.

What's the point?

Legalize all of it --tax the shit out of it and we can all have a frank discussion and whoever wants to partake...can partake till the cows come home.

The child molesters and murderers who kill and abuse because they get off on killing or abusing someone, just to see what it feels like, need to take precedence IMO and they need to be locked up indefinitely.

These are the scumbags who should never see the freaking light of day.

I have always maintained (again I will get flamed) that a person no matter how high they are, is not going to get violent just for the hell of it, unless they had a penchant for it in the first place--

Drugs are not the problem IMO it's something else and all this incarceration of drug users who are non-violent is just sucking up space in our prison system IMO

[Warren DeMontague]

108. I'm not going to flame you.

I think the idea that a consenting adult can go to jail for putting a substance in his or her OWN body.. is ridiculous. I mean, look, ALL drugs can have deleterious effects, particularly in the context of addiction or excessive use- but the worst ones society-wise are actually alcohol and nicotine. Beyond that, people should have the right to make choices- even 'bad' ones- about their own bodies. When a person gets behind the wheel drunk, then alcohol becomes a public matter. Same with drugs, I should think. If someone is on drugs and they commit a crime, they are a criminal. If they're not bothering anyone, why is it any of the government's business?

The philosophical libertarian in me says legalize ALL drugs and tax them. The realist says legalize and tax at least pot (no question), then adopt a harm reduction/decriminalization of small amounts approach to the addictive hard drugs a la the netherlands.

I don't personally do drugs anymore, including alcohol- but I spent enough time in my "reckless youth" around people who had problems to know that the best thing for folks in that situation is to make help and treatment easy to find and widely available.. often if they need it they will seek it out. For kids, TRUTH-based education works (as opposed to bullshit scare tactics- if you lie to them and tell them, say, that pot is going to kill them or make them go insane, then... surprise! they will never believe you when you tell them, truthfully, that meth will make their teeth fall out!)

[Carni]

120. I agree with all the above-we're definitely on the same page NT

[WindyInPA]

110. I'm in absolute agreement with you on this issue. It's definately a good

place to start. That way the hard-core criminals could be weeded out from those who comment petty crimes. The petty criminals could work doing public service to pay their fines and serve their time. A 'work for room and board', stay at a halfway house and save taxpayer money for better things. I personally think the whole government is in serious need of an overhaul! :D

By the way, I checked out your site. I like it :D Pretty cool!

[Gelliebeans]

81. I don't know where I stand on original issue

but I do know that too many sexual offenders aren't being monitored after release (Meagan's law) so I don't know if chemical castration would work on the ones that are released back into society. Monitoring the ones in confinement would be easier to administer. Again, I have thought about this before and the sticky issue for me is when the government starts controlling our bodies even the slime that is convicted of a heinous crime. :shrug:

[WindyInPA]

94. The government already decides or turns the other way and simply

pulls the plug on those whose health is in *question*. They have far more control than many realize. The Patriot Act is controling every move we make. We are not protected from or by the government. We have no rights left. The government makes most of our decissions for us, because they can.

I live in PA where prisons are now considered an *industry*! Can you believe that? They now want to build prison #50! That should tell everyone something. There's money to be made collecting murderers with life sentences! There's plenty of money to be made from people who, in my book, have done nothing wrong. They're kept in the court system for years, for petty stuff.

As long as the American people are unwilling to address this massive problem, it will continue to grow, get dumped on our kids, their kids and so on. Soon enough us *hard working folks will be the minority* because we're too busy working to support and care for the *prison majority*.

I say before releasing any of them into society, surgically castrate them, implant a chip to monitor them and a tatoo on an ear lobe. A different color for different levels of crime. Put their asses to work so they can help support and care for their prison pals and pay taxes just like the rest of us.

That's my story! :)

[Bridget Burke]

8. I'm against it.

It's cruel & unusual. The worst will still find ways to hurt women.

What if the DNA test was done by a bad crime lab? We've had lots of that in Houston lately. Can a man be un-castrated?

Lock the worst of them up forever.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. I am pretty sure chemical castration is reversible

As I said above, surgical castration is a sexual death penalty. I'm flatly opposed to that.

[kweerwolf]

13. The misconception with surgical castration.

Surgically castrating a man is not a "sexual death sentence." Even the castrati, men who were castrated to preserve the soprano voices they had as youngsters, were capable of sexual intercourse ... as were palace eunuchs who were put in charge of guarding harems. Removing the testicles does not result in impotence. It only prevents reproduction.

[NickB79]

77. Palace eunuchs, you say?

At first I wondered "what's the point of a eunuch guarding your harem if they can still have sex with them?" Then I recalled reading about slaves sent to the Middle East from Africa, and how they were often "completely" castrated (bye-bye Mr. Happy and his nutty friends). As I recall, the death rate was pretty high. Maybe that was a good thing for the poor bastards.

[kweerwolf]

11. The problem with chemical castration ...

... is that it doesn't necessarily solve the problem. Sure, an injection of a drug like Luprin will cause impotence, but a pedophile's penis isn't his only weapon. Victims can be forcefully pentrated with fingers, hands, or any of a number of objects. Such violations can be just as traumatic - physically AND psychologically - as the traditional version of rape.

Chemical castration doesn't create "safer" rapists and pedophiles. It does, however, make them have to use more creativity to engage in penatrative sex.

[LisaL]

127. European studies show it works.

Recidivism rate drops dramatically.
Maybe somebody here in US should do the studies instead of dismissing it out of hand?
http://echo.forensicpanel.com/1996/11/1/castrationsex.html

[amazona]

12. impotent rapists more likely to kill victims

When this issue was first raised in the 1970s, I thought the conclusion after much study was that impotent rapists were significantly more likely to kill their victims. Therefore, there was a lot of backing away from the idea of chemical castration because it might lead to an escalation of the violence. In the 1970s, I believe it was found that around 10 percent of rapists are, in fact, already impotent. The crime is not about getting good sex. It's about something wrong going on in these men's heads. I'm pretty sure the conclusion that chemical castration would make it worse for potential victims was correct.

But maybe someone has more up-to-date information -- my dim memories could hardly be LESS up-to-date.


And, as far as, "I'm not talking about the guy peeing in the bushes," I think we have to be realistic that these programs take on mission creep. A pharmaceutical company gets a contract, and the next year it hopes for a bigger contract, and his good buddy at the sheriff's office gets a free cruise, and pretty soon--

I'd say back away from this issue. I also think that race would come into play and certain people in certain groups would find it more likely that a judge would demand this punishment.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[WillowTree]

14. I'd rather see them just locked away....

....in a place that's really unpleasant until they stop breathing. Short of the death penalty, it's the surest way to protect the rest of the populace from the threat of recidivism.

[uppityperson]

15. Rape is violence disguised as sex.

It won't help curb violence, but is not immoral.

I am in agreement that castration wouldn't help curb the violence. I also do not think it is cruel and unusual or immoral, given the right circumstances and with major controls over how it is used. I also feel a strong need for retribution in some cases though. Chop off his testicles, chop off his penis, put him in the general prison population where everyone know why he is there. On the other hand, the judicial system is imperfect and people are wrongly convicted so I cannot say this should be used.

Ambiguity is a normal human condition. Anyone who says different is closed minded.

[BlueIris]

41. Yes. Let's keep that in mind, please. n/t

[leftofthedial]

16. the Pope would say no

[watercolors]

17. castration and a tatoo

I think we should brand or tatoo indiviual on the right cheek with a big RED X! ALL CHILDREN CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT IT WOULD MEAN.Desperate times call for desperate means.

[Stinky The Clown]

23. Man oh man .......

There's surely this demon inside me who would love the idea of a tattoo ... on the face .... a red X? ... great! ..... a modern scarlet letter.

But then I stop .... reason prevails ... and it seems to me this gets painfully close to "cruel and unusual'.

[wtmusic]

61. Agree...this is a tacit agreement that there is no hope of reform

Take away someone's hope, and are they more or less dangerous?

[CornField]

18. Eventually (I hope) people are going to figure out that sex offenses have

little (if anything) to do with the act of sex. They are about power and control. Cutting off a penis (figuratively or literally) or sewing up a vagina (figuratively or literally) does nothing to address the underlying issues of rape and molestation.

[Stinky The Clown]

21. I think its fair to say most people *do* know that

I suspect the call for punishment or curatives is as much about retribution as it is about a 'cure'.

Sad to say, when I look inside myself, that's true for me .... a hope for a 'cure' or a poreventative ..... but also retribution ... and that is all part of why I'm conflicted.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. I'm not sure that's true when you're talking about pedophiles, actually.

As far as I understand it, I don't think they are trying to make some point about power or the oppression of children- I think the wires in their head are horribly fucked up and they are sexually attracted to them.

Of course, people have the option to not act on their urges, and once someone commits a horrible crime like child abuse, they are a criminal and deserve punishment. I'm of the opinion that anyone who hurts kids shouldn't be out on the street, period (and that goes for all child molesters, even priests, who somehow don't seem to have to play by the same rules as everyone else) ... If we reserved the prisons for dangerous, violent people, and stopped filling up the cells for 5, 10, 20 years with non-violent drug offenders, we could keep truly dangerous people locked up for a lot longer.

Why child molesters (and, like the thread poster, I'm not talking about the 18 year old who has sex with his 17 year old girlfriend) can't be put away for good is beyond me-- but if they have to be released and it is clear they are sexually attracted to little kids, I don't see why chemical castration couldn't or shouldn't be a part of the probation.

[Stinky The Clown]

19. All thoughtful and considered replies ... please continue .....

Thanks to all who have posted here. I've picked up some new perspectives. I also see good deal of conflict in other's views of this. Like me. This isn't an easy issue .... but the whole issue of violence and rape is quite real ... frighteningly real.

As one poster said .... 'desperate times call for desperate means' ..... are we in desperate times with respect to sexual predators? Or are we simply more aware?

Please continue. I for one am learning.

[politicat]

20. I'm cautiously in favor of chemical castration.

Using Depo-Provera to artificially lower the amount of available testosterone in the violent offender's system. We know that, without testosterone, the urge to commit violent acts of any sort diminishes. The psycho-sexual plate becomes far less full, so to speak.

I am in favor of it as a temporary to long term drug therapy while the offender is undergoing other forms of counseling, so that the root psychological issues that cause the offender to want to harm others can be addressed without the interference of the bodily chemical imbalance to interfere. I am not in favor of it as a punishment, and I'm definitely not in favor of castration via surgical means as a form of punishment.

Those who have had chemical castration are a very small number, but the interviews and data collected on them have been pretty solid: they lose, not only the ability to commit their crimes, but the desire to do so, and come to a place psychologically, where they can address those stimuli that cause them to wish to commit their offenses.

There's an interesting documentary on this, by the way: American Eunuchs. It was on Sundance (or IFC) recently. I tivoed it.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0364942/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxsbT01MDB8dHQ9b258ZmI9dXxwbj0wfHE9ZXVudWNoc3xodG1sPTF8bm09b24_;fc=2;ft=20;fm=1

[LdyGuique]

22. Depo Provera is the primary birth control medication used for

chemical castration -- it's a several times a year shot.

Unfortunately, unless long term lab tests are conducted, it's unknown how it will affect men. I've read a couple of articles online where Depo Provera was a disaster for some women. Now, transexuals have been utilizing various female hormones for quite some time and there should be some studies available -- but most of what they take appears to be a "daily dose" rather than the several-month depo provera shot.

Americans tend to think in terms of quick or easy solutions for complex problems. Sexual predators have deep-seated psychological issues -- these issues don't necessarily go away with medication.

Since Prozac is considered a) a leveler of emotional outbursts; and b) tends to affect men sexually -- it might be something that could be used in a prison environment that would ratchet down some of the sexual violence. Would be worth a trial.

Many child molesters fight the illness. They are racked with guilt as they are unable to stop. I doubt that most of the priests who kept re-offending were of a cavalier mindset. Not only are they supposed to be celibate, but non-homosexual, and, of course, children are totally offlimits. I'm sure they went through onorous amounts of prayer and confessions. It was simply something so deep-seated that they couldn't stop themselves.

We know that most pedophiles and abusers come from a childhood life of abuse. Unfortunately, there have been no studies conducted on abuse victims who have avoided the syndrome. We don't know on a percentage basis how many abused become abusers. There are not enough studies.

However, there has been various drug treatment plans for pedophilia and the Psychiatric world would be the best organization to cull out the articles and drug treatments -- conduct some additional tests and studies as this problem seems to be on the rise.

I understand the frustration and anger by the general public -- I'm one of them. But, I also understand that most of the angry quick fixes that I come up with are based on too little knowledge and an assumption that there is an easy solution. Prison isn't always the best solution and I think that many predators might be willing to volunteer to spend part of their sentence in a hospital setting where genuine tests and studies can be conducted, along with genuine therapy.

[Stinky The Clown]

24. Wow! Great point, indeed.

Prison isn't always the best solution and I think that many predators might be willing to volunteer to spend part of their sentence in a hospital setting where genuine tests and studies can be conducted, along with genuine therapy.

I have to think .... whoever thought this up has to be a liberal! :hi:

Seriously, that's a really great idea. And may lead toward a better understanding of two issues ... sexually predatory behavior and (at least some small part of) prison violence

[Cats Against Frist]

66. Prison isn't always the "best solution"

for violent criminals who want to rape and kill children? I feel terrible for pedophiles, and realize that it's a disease and that the person cannot be helped -- but, IMHO, there is NO WAY that that person should be out on the street. And a mental hospital? The mental hospitals are filled up.

They need to let the drug offenders out and keep the sexual predators in for good. It's not about "rehab," -- it's about harm reduction and the gambling odds say it's better for Cookie to be on ice than loose in your neighborhood.

[Warren DeMontague]

68. Damn straight, CAF. Any form of violence should equal removal from society

We don't need people like that. People who commit large-scale economic or environmental crimes (which could be considered a form of violence as well) might need the threat of prison as a deterrent, but for white collar and corporate types, other, economic disincentives would probably be more powerful than the threat of a couple years in a federal country club. I've said it before- the BEST punishment I can think of for someone like Ken Lay is to sentence him to poverty... take ALL his money away (and all his stuff) and give him 10 years working a min. wage job with a paper hat.

As far as the drug people who comprise over half the prison population, if they're non-violent, let them out. Period.

[tinanator]

27. NO on chemical, YES on physical

and thats got NOTHING to do with winning elections. People want deterrence? I think it needs to be studied.

[Maru Kitteh]

50. There ya go!

That's what I'm talkin' about. I don't think the death penalty is an effective means of deterrence, but you get out the scissors and I'll bet as soon as some balls start plopping to the floor we would see more of these "people" committing themselves voluntarily for treatment before they hurt children.

[Guaranteed]

112. Should mothers who abuse/kill their children have their tubes

forcibly tied?

[LisaL]

133. Well, clearly, the children should be removed from them

if they continue to have them.

[ultraist]

28. Interesting comments!

Men who rape adult women should be dealt with a bit differently than child molestors. Pedophiles have a different sort of illness. They are almost addicted to sex with children and viewing children as sex objects. Post prison sentences, they should be treated with medication and forced to wear ankle bracelets. They also need to improve the registry and tracking system.

Rapists of adult women, are addicted to violence. It's less about sex and more about violence and control. I also think they should be medicated and tracked but the treatment should vary. Someone mentioned prozac. Other drugs help to manage anger and violent outbursts as well.

For both, prison sentences should be more severe and follow up/probation should be longer and include therapy, medication, and ankle bracelets.

As far as chemical castration, I don't know much about it but the comment someone made that suggested it may increase the murder rate of victims is concerning. I think chemical castration may be a good solution for pedophiles, but probably not rapists of adults.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Stinky The Clown]

33. I am not defending 'pedofiles' (sic) and while I agree with

the vehemence of your feelings about this issue, I'm not sure what you imply about pedophiles is accurate. Pedophilia and rape are quite different in the root causes (although, I am sure there are many for whom the case might be made that, for them, the root causes overlap).

A pedophile is not inherently a violent person. Rather, they're sexually attracted to children. Please read some of the preceding posts on this very topic for some further insight.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren DeMontague]

59. Do You REALLY think anyone on this board is sticking up for them?

In any way, shape, or form?

Fuck no.

So you're arguing with a straw man.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vektor]

51. I feel the same

and I extend my intolerance to the sexual abuse of adults, too. The age of the victim is not an issue with me. I loathe the thought of a victim receiving less sympathy, or the public being less outraged because the victim has reached adulthood. A rapist is a waste of oxygen, no matter WHO he rapes, whether the person be eight or eighty.

[New Dealer]

36. If they're in prison for life they don't need to be castrated

Put the bastards in prison for life for the first offense. End of story.

[leftofthedial]

37. what, are you nuts?

<sorry. couldn't resist>

pedophiles have an incredibly high rate of recidivism

I think they should be removed from the culture.

[leesa]

38. How would this help? Except to make the person more angry.

All sorts of objects to rape a person with. It's about power and hurting, not rape.

[Horse with no Name]

39. If it were my world and I had the choice

Pedophiles would automatically receive a life sentence without parole---ever on the first offense. I would also advocate they be put in the general population and not segregated.

Convicted rapists should be implanted with a microchip with GPS technology upon release from prison. There have been incidences of ankle bracelets being removed. I don't care about the surgical invasion of their bodies (it's a little local anesthetic and some stitches)--they sexually invaded someone else without their permission. They deserve no better.
I also believe that if a pregnancy occurs from the rape--neither the rapist NOR his family has any right to the child ever, but should be forced to liquidate any asset he has and pay child support on the child and monies he receives in prison should go for child support.
If they do not register their residence or rape again, then they should be sent back to automatic life sentences without parole.

As many have stated, these are not sex crimes. These are violent criminals who attack women and children. They deserve no compassion or pity for their actions. Most of these acts are premeditated and fantasized about by the predator.

[ultraist]

46. microchip with GPS is an excellent idea

[bush_is_wacko]

40. I've thought that was a good "punishment" for a long time

But truthfully, rape is a crime of anger and power, so it is highly likely they would just find another object or body part to rape someone with. Rape is just not about sex and molesters usually don't start with rape anyway. They start out with "fondling" and move up to rape. Either way it is demoralizing to the victim of their crimes and the results are the same.

[Stinky The Clown]

52. When you say 'molesters', are you referring to child molesters or rapists?

[bush_is_wacko]

87. BOTH. The crimes are committed for the same reason. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

109. I don't know if that's true. I think pedophiles have a specific wiring

problem that makes them sexually attracted to kids.

Recognizing that reality doesn't justify it, in any way, shape or form--- but I do think that it implies a certain sexual component to the crime.

[bush_is_wacko]

122. Yes pedophiles DO have a specific wiring that makes them target

specifically children. The crime itself is still one of power over the helpless. Pedophiles SPECIFICALLY want to hold that power over children.

Other types of rapist pick people they view as the perfect victim whether they be old, white, black, Asian, blond, weakened by disease or infirmity, male, female, whatever. Most every rapist has a profile and picks victims that match a certain standard. Pedophiles choose children. You do realize that serial rapist pick their victims for the qualities they possess that makes that rapist believe they are vulnerable, right? That is what USUALLY bites them in the ass in the end. They become so enamored with that certain look or certain thing that attracts them to a victim that they forget SOME people that look a certain way DO have the strength to fight back and SOME of them won't let them terrorize them. Even pedophiles run across kids that have the will to fight and fight hard enough to escape despite the fact they are clearly outmatched by an adults size and life experience.

[Warren DeMontague]

129. I'm not trying to debate whether or not power is a factor

certainly, it is.

But I think it denies the obvious to argue that there is NO sexual component whatsoever to what drives pedophiles- so much so that people aren't even allowed to discuss the potential merits of something like castration. I find it surprising that so many want to shut this line of discussion down- personally, I'm not interested in defending axiomatic philosophical positions so much as I am interested in defending kids.

For the record, solution-wise, I think life incarceration for any convicted child molester is warranted-- and is probably more workable.

[bush_is_wacko]

130. It doesn't work is what I'm saying. They will find another way to rape

their victims. They have done studies on this. While I wish it WAS the answer, I am a realist and I know of several cases of people being raped with OBJECTS rather than body parts. The particular rapist was impotent and he still found a way to rape them. I understand your sexual connection issue, but you are not really addressing the most serious issue. These people are psychologically broken. Unfix-able in my mind. And honestly, after witnessing some of their aftermath, I would just as soon legalize public torture deaths for them. Most of them however, were at one time victims themselves. Unfortunately, at some point they crossed the line from victim to predator and I just can't find an excuse to feel sorry for them anymore.

[Warren DeMontague]

131. I have zero sympathy as well.

It's not about finding excuses for their behavior-- or feeling sorry for them.

My problem with the death penalty... nevermind the "public torture" death penalty.. is that the judicial system is imperfect, and innocent people get convicted of things they don't do.

Removing them permanently from society is an imperfect solution also, particularly from the vengeance angle, however in my mind it is the only legitimately workable one.

[bush_is_wacko]

134. Believe me. With the invention of DNA technology we have removed

the biggest obstacle to convicting the RIGHT sexual predator. Almost without exception they leave something of themselves behind. in any case where that question goes unanswered by DNA I hate to admit it but I would be unwilling to condemn that person. The problem is complicated by multiple donors, but this particular crime when prosecuted in this day and age using this technology is the closest thing to perfection you are ever likely to witness.

Yes, the wrong guy used to be convicted all the time. This fantastic technology is ALSO capable of setting those people free. It has done so quite effectively and quite often lately. Our justice system IS an imperfect beast to say the least. I agree wholeheartedly with you on that. I also agree that we need to find a way to address that issue in a timely manner. Some of these people will have died behind bars before that process is completed for them. That is wrong and unfortunate.

[Vektor]

49. Too kind.

I'll likely draw flames for saying I wholeheartedly support the death penalty for rapists, but it won't change my mind one iota. I am adamant in this position.

Violent sex offenders needn't even be executed humanely, IMHO.

[ovidsen]

55. No flame, but...

Threatening rapists with the death penalty will just mean more rapists killing their victims. What do they gain? One victim who can't testify against them. What do they lose? Nothing.

[Vektor]

56. That is a good point...

definitely - but I have never been able to shake the feeling that a violent sex offender deserves to die. No, that isn't a perfect solution, but I cannot stand the thought of a person like that someday being released, or escaping.

To be honest, I cannot think of a punishment quite bad enough for sexual predators. I really feel they are the lowest of the low. Admittedly, I am only human, and probably deeply morally flawed when it it comes to my knee-jerk reaction to people like that. While I see the merit in arguments such as yours, I cannot control the emotional side of me that says "If someone did that to my mother, my sister, my niece, I'd want to torture them slowly." I don't have a hard time transferring that rancor onto anyone who does that to ANYONE'S mother, sister, loved one, or self.

When I think about that man who killed the 9 year old in FL recently, and buried her alive...there's no punishment too cruel for him.

[Warren DeMontague]

63. I agree with you. But my problem with the death penalty stands:

Our judicial system isn't perfect. Innocent people get convicted of shit they didn't do. I have ZERO sympathy for people like the guy in FL, and I can't even imagine a punishment bad enough for someone like that. Those stories break my heart.

However. Looking at history, draconian sentencing proposals and laws put together in the heat of anger don't always work out the way people think they will. You pass a "3 Strikes" law to keep people from doing evil shit to kids like Polly Klass, and you end up sending the guy away for life who stole a piece of pizza or a movie from Blockbuster. It happens time and again. Then you throw in the death penalty with some hideous torture along with it... and what happens when you have a black man accused of raping a white woman some racist holdout podunk in the south? Maybe the evidence is flimsy but the jury doesn't care... Or the public defender falls asleep...

I am fully behind locking violent criminals, particularly violent sexual predators, away for LIFE. No question. (And I think the best way to make room for them would be to stop locking up non-violent drug offenders and bring some sanity to the 'drug war', which is responsible for over half our prison population, as it stands)... But I'm not sure I can support an extension of the death penalty when we aren't sure that we're not convicting innocent people.

[Vektor]

72. I see your points, and they make sense.

I admit fully - your arguments are rational and logical, and mine are based purely on emotion.

Being a woman, I have always lived in fear my entire life of men such as the one who killed that little girl, or the one who raped a local woman in my town and is still at large right now. I hate that the world we live in is especially unsafe for women and girls. It pains me that one of the first things we learn as young females is that there are a lot of people out there that want to harm us and we need to be hyper-vigilant at all times. After listening to stories like the one about the Florida girl all my life, and knowing - "wow, that could happen to me" - I admit, I feel a lot of hate toward sexual offenders, and despite knowing logically that killing isn't the most progressive solution to violent crime, I cannot help feeling murderous rage when I think about those who would do me or others harm in this way.

It is purely based on emotion, not logic or reason. I totally cop to that. It's a really hard feeling to squelch, though.

[Warren DeMontague]

74. Too many people feel they can get away with violence and intimidation.

How to mitigate that, I think, is the real question. What could you do to this guy that would make other sick bastards like him not do it? And what level of punishment would be horrible enough to be appropriate for what he's so obviously done? (on an emotional level? There is none bad enough, I think..)

So I agree with you- the sickness and rage I have when I think about, say, that little girl in florida- it's beyond words. And then I think about what a hard planet this is for children of all stripes, genders, and nationalities.. how we as a society and as a species have made it acceptable to pick on the weak, the poor, or the downtrodden.. over and over again. And right now we have a whole cross-section of the culture (a "culture of death", but not in the way the right wing says) that glorifies bullies like Bush or Bolton, loves people who "tell it like it is" like Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly.. full of self-righteous assholes that drive hummers and monster trucks and terrorize people on the roads with testosterone-fueled road rage.. a culture that tells kids it's better to shoot someone than to suffer the humiliation of being "dissed" over their shoes, that kind of thing.

It's the hate, the rage, the anger and the meanness, I think, that is out of control, and it's heartbreaking.

But -legally and realistically- the only thing I can think to do is to put violent people away for good, and stop filling the prisons with non-violent drug offenders.

[Vektor]

78. I too, am saddened by this violent culture you speak of.

"But -legally and realistically- the only thing I can think to do is to put violent people away for good, and stop filling the prisons with non-violent drug offenders."

Agreed, and I also think FWIW, putting Martha Freaking Stewart in jail was a waste of a prison cell too. I don't condone what she did, but PRISON? She's no physical threat to anyone. That was absurd.

[Warren DeMontague]

79. No- and she was a classic "bait and switch", too.

We're not going to go after the REAL corporate Criminals (Ken Lay, anyone? What the hell is taking so long with THAT?) after all, they're our old-boy cronies... but we'll stick Martha in jail to make it look like we're "cracking down" on corporate corruption.

I think (and yeah, I've said this several times) the best punishment for someone like Ken Lay would be to make him poor.. I mean, really poor- take away ALL his money, ALL his stuff (give it to the shareholders and employees whose retirements he destroyed, as well as the citizens of a little place called California), and make him work for minimum wage for 10 years wearing a paper hat. That would be FAR more appropriate than prison.

[Vektor]

82. I can get behind that!

I think having to live as a "common man" and suffering the struggles of a person making minimum wage in Bush's America would do him a hell of a lot of good.

It'd be a very rude awakening and just the sort he needs.

Oh, and yes, I'm sure the streets of America are significantly safer with Martha Stewart, hardened criminal, now on house arrest where she can no longer terrorize her fellow man with random attacks of violent cake decorating, and aggressive and dangerous flower arranging.

[Stinky The Clown]

116. I really like the paper hat part

:)

Maybe we could insist it be imprinted with an oval with a "W" in it.

[Stinky The Clown]

67. "but I have never been able to shake the feeling ......."

I hear ya! Its part of being human. My emotional part goes right where yours does. Every time. I have a wife I love more than life. I have a (step) daighter I love as my own. I can NOT imagine being rational or merciful were anyone to harm then .........

But then I stop and pull back and try to actually think. To be rational. When I do that, I just can't go for the death penalty.

My wife, who is a bit more left than me, is unsure about the death penalty. She can see a reason to go there. I still think she wouldn't, but she's more likely to than me (I shouldn't be speaking for her).

But the point is, this whole issue just gets us all fucked up, mixing logic and reason with equal parts emotion and a need for - yes - revenge.

No easy answers.

And that's why I started this. Just to get other's viewpoints.

[Vektor]

71. Exactly -

While I know that vengeance is not the "right" answer, I admittedly cannot help but want it anyway when you are talking about a sicko that violates people in this manner.

There was a news story in Tuesday's local paper about a rapist who is at large in MY TOWN as we speak. He entered a business on Sunday and raped a woman who was working alone, and stuffed her in the trunk of her own car and locked her in. Fortunately, she escaped with her life, but will clearly be scarred forever, as would any other victim of such a crime. What if this man was HIV positive? What if she ends up pregnant? No one knows who the attacker is - he was wearing the proverbial black ski-mask. I am sure this woman's nightmares will never stop haunting her. I too, and all of my female friends are living in fear at this time. My best friend works one street over from where the attack occurred. When I think About how this man has harmed this innocent woman, and terrorized the community, try as I might, I cannot help but think "I hope the police catch him, and he resists, and they have to shoot him dead."

I know this doesn't make me look like a good person - but alas, it's how I feel.

[Warren DeMontague]

76. I don't shed a lot of tears for people killed by others in self defense

I just don't.

If you attack someone, you have forefeit your right to personal integrity. That doesn't mean all sorts of vigilante justice is okay, but if the cops or a potential victim shoot a renegade rapist or otherwise violent thug in the process of stopping a crime? Bah. Good riddance. I don't think that makes me a Ted Nugent style wacko, I just am not going to worry about it too much.

Trust me, feeling that way doesn't mean you or I are not good people.

[Vektor]

80. Well maybe...

I can lay aside my fantasy of revenge for now, and just pray the cops do find this creep, and justice is served, in one capacity or another.

What scares me is the thought of a convicted rapist who is clearly guilty, going to jail for a while, then getting back out. More often then not, they re-offend and the violence in their crimes escalates.

I had a good friend who was stalked by a psycho ex while in college. He went to jail for three years for various threats and abuses, and upon his release, showed up at her residence and attacked her. When she tried to run away, he stabbed her in the back with a large knife. She survived, and he went back to jail, but not for life. I cannot recall his exact sentence, but he will be freed when he is still a relatively young man. She still lives in fear of that day.
:scared:

I guess I just want to be assured that once a person has committed a violent offense, especially of the sexual nature - since this is not something that research indicates can be rehabilitated out of someone - that there is NO chance they will be free to menace again.

[Warren DeMontague]

83. I'm with you. Just imagine the resources that would be freed up

if we didn't spend $80 Billion a year on the drug war, the VAST majority of which goes to fight pot smoking.

Thats a lot of cash-- and manpower-- to keep a lot of eyes on a lot of truly bad people, if not to keep them locked up for good.

[wtmusic]

57. So you advocate torture then?

Inhumane execution is torture. There is no difference.

[Vektor]

60. You're right.

And yes, I'd gladly advocate that. Not the most altruistic viewpoint to have, but as I said to another poster - when I think about that little girl in Florida raped and buried alive, I cannot find a fiber of my being that would protest if her murderer were tortured to death. That may be a flaw in MY character, but I can't help it. It's how I feel.

[wtmusic]

Although I understand the sentiment

this is what progress is about. The triumph of justice over revenge.

What would happen if her murderer were tortured to death? Would it be better that two people had suffered horribly? That some cosmic score had been settled? That it would prevent future crimes like this? All those options, IMO, have societal consequences that outweigh the personal craving for revenge.

I have two young kids. If something ever happened to them, would it change the way I feel? I hope not. But I don't know.

[Vektor]

69. I agree

I think your position is morally superior to mine. Unfortunately, I have not yet mastered the ability to not let my emotions rule when it comes to situations like this. I don't know if I ever will.

[Warren DeMontague]

64. I'm with you. It's indescribable.

I don't know how anyone can be so fucking evil.

But I would suspect that, like Dahmer, no matter what happens, the prison system will take care of that guy in fairly short order.

[amazona]

97. death penalty for rapists is a death penalty for their victims

The U.S. got rid of the death penalty for rapists because rapists were more likely to kill their victims in the era when the death penalty was imposed for rape. Why allow a potential witness to live?

We are already seeing how more draconian punishments for child molestation give these rapists a motive to go ahead and kill the child when they're done.

If you want lots more dead children and women, by all means, let us go back to the days of death penalty for rape.

"An eye for an eye leaves everybody blind" -- and in this case the innocent victims pay because some people want to be entertained by gruesome executions. :eyes:

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[LisaL]

125. Well, what do you suggest? Maybe we shouldn't punish them

at all. This way, they will know they can rape anybody they want, and not pay the price.
:eyes:

[bush_is_wacko]

128. Oh, I'm not nearly as kind as you think. I hold the same opinion

of them you do. No mercy. They didn't give their victims any. Exsanguination via penile amputation sounds like a good plan to me. I wonder how long that would take? Would it heal before they bled to death? I may have to consider multiple penile amputations...

But there does need to be an exceptions for 18 year olds listed as sex offenders because they got a little hot and heavy in the back seat of the car with their 15 year old girlfriend. I would be the girlfriend of one of those "sex offenders" I am NOW his wife of 20 years!

[mattclearing]

65. Yes. Yes. Yes. NO.

Cruel and unusual?

Yeah.

Unconstitutional?

If you believe torture or the death penalty are unconstitutional under the cruel and unusual punishment standard, then castration by any means seems to be in the same ballpark.

And the death penalty puts us in some horrible company as far as other nations go.

As far as immoral goes, I would argue so. If you believe that our society's justice system is ultimately fair and tends to arrest the right people and does a fair job at both apprehending the guilty and punishing those deserving, then perhaps you would take a (pardon the expression) black and white view of this issue.

When you consider the way these laws shake out...the people we're talking about are going to be mentally ill people, some of them homeless, and as much a symptom of our society as a problem.

This nation is so stigmatized against mental illness that these people have no place in our society, no viable avenue by which to get medication.

Does that excuse their behavior? No.

But we shouldn't be surprised if it happens. That is what happens when a society fails to look out for its least fortunate.

Its least fortunate fall into an abyss of depravity and desperation, capable of anything.

A winning issue? This is the most unappealing national issue to stand up for since abortion.

There is little upside to it.

It's like standing up for Michael Jackson right now.

People will look at you like you're crazy and stupid, and rightfully so.

[Swamp Rat]

73. It is ineffective and just plain evil.

That would be like performing lobotomies on politicians for... hey! Wait a second! :think: :D

[Warren DeMontague]

75. Too late for the GOP

lobotomies would be redundant.

[TWiley]

84. Would castration stop assualts?

It may stop pregnancy, but it might not stop assult. In some cases, the level of violence may actually increase due to a lack of sexual release.

[LisaL]

86. Nope. The testosterone in castrated person goes down,

which makes them less violent.

[TWiley]

92. Is there a componet of violence that is psychological?

I mean, can it be stimulated like fear, or anger?

I don't know how testosterone would effect the type of obsessive thinking that may drive some of these criminals.

I would imagine they "work themselves up to the crime" rather than to act strictly by impulse without advance contemplation.

[bleedingheart]

88. It used to be standard practice in mental homes and prisons

but that has changed.

In fact, I know a fellow who began his social work career working at a mental home. About 8 months into the job he was speaking to one of the doctors about how he, a newlywed, was finding himself not interested in sex and so tired...The doctor asked him if he was drinking the coffee they served to the patients...when he answered yes, the doc told him to stop ...

Now that was a long time ago...but personally I think that prison is just the right sentence for pedophiles and rapists. While perhaps the pedophiles might benefit from the voluntary use of drugs and therapy, I think the rapists are just power hungry women/man haters....it isn't about sex, it is about being in control of the victim.

[RedCloud]

95. Stop the anti-balls hatred here!

Are you folks nuts?

Someone opines about committing sexual atrocities upon a sex offender and you are a little too cool and calm about it.

I hate ball haters.

It's okay to teach in karate and have popular chusma culture saying "kick him in the nuts." Would you like "Kick her in the cunt?" Oh yeah let's only view sexual violence against men as funny and part of our defense against them.

And what about when women rape men? Do you think that laser beaming their tits right off will help?

Stop all sexual violence. And stop using sexual violence against those who use sexual violence.

[LisaL]

96. Oh geez, how many women are there that rape men?

:eyes:

[RandomKoolzip]

99. Women cannot rape men.

That's impossible.

[amazona]

101. women don't have guns and broomhandles?

Of course, women can rape men. They mostly don't bother, but the argument that it is "impossible" is ridiculous to me. If I was a psycho whackjob, I could go out and rape some guy in about five minutes flat.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[LisaL]

132. Yea, that is such a serious problem-women raping men.

Poor men must be afraid to go anywhere in fear some women will rape them.

[RedCloud]

121. Can and did!

One unfortunate chap from my high school was made the laughing stock out of by the media for reporting it, but several ladies decided to nab him while he was out running. While it may be difficult for a guy to perform, think of a guy who has been in avoidance for a while then he can get aroused and do things against his will. Eventually his family moved away, but everyone else seemed to say just shut up and enjoy it because he was the guy.

I know it bothered me some that it happened.

It (female to male) is very rare and I did not mean to equate the two instances.

I would say they rank male to female (first)
Male to male (second)

Then way later, probably female to male or female to female, which would be rather bizarre but if it is against one's will it is rape.

Just find a civilized way to treat the offenders. We have enough medieval in our politics and other venues without inviting the "penal" system to go ballistic on our senses.

I unfortunately lived in a state where the death penalty was carried out. I am ashamed to say how the rabble reacted with glee as one of their own kind was being murdered by the state in exchange for their votes.

[LisaL]

124. Sorry, this sounds very much like an urban legend to me.

[amazona]

100. agree this whole discussion is insane

I can't believe that people don't see the abuses that will occur with something like this. I mean, hello, Alan Turing? It doesn't take being all that clue-ful to figure out that unpopular minorities such as gay males or African-Americans will be hit disproportionately hard by something like this.

There will absolutely be innocent people poisoned -- we already know from DNA tests that some men were not guilty of the rape for which they were convicted. A man in my parish was in prison for 15 years for a rape he didn't commit until DNA exonerated, and I bet there are others are all over the country! Then you have the "child molesters" who are put in prison with no physical evidence, just a run of hysteria. We've all heard of the most outrageous cases of people jailed for years when no offense actually occurred. So we would have been poisoning those people for all those years as well?

Plus, as I pointed out before, when it was discussed in the 70s, a study was brought out showing that the impotent rapists were much more likely to kill their victims. We know from earlier decades, when the death penalty was applied to rape, many rapists made more of an effort to be sure their victims were dead. So, for my own selfish safety, I don't want highly motivated rapists out there deciding that they've got to kill when they've had their "fun" because the risk of leaving a potential witness alive is just too great.

I just don't see anything positive coming out of chemical castration imposed by law. I have heard of cases of people requesting the drugs themselves to try to treat their compulsion. Fine. But I don't see any good that brings the law into telling people what drugs to put in their bodies.

It cannot be a progressive issue to condone the legal poisoning of other human beings.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Project_Willow]

113. Hysteria? No, you did not

use that reactionary, pro-pedophile lobby group invented description!
Arrrghh, Just look at the statistics, please. There's a huge gap between the incident numbers produced by studies and substantiated case rates. That means lots of kids getting hurt and no one ever doing anything about it.
We NEED hysteria over this. What do you think is the underlying cause of so many current social ills, and most likely the current administration too, it is family violence.
As for the big cases, in the 80's and 90's, before the backlash, feel free to revisit them. They weren't all bunk, contrary to media portrayals, convictions have been upheld and plenty of the victims, despite what happened in their cases, remain steadfast in their claims.

[Warren DeMontague]

106. Come on, let's be honest.

Balls are sometimes a pain in the ass. ;)

[NashVegas]

103. Prove to Me That It Works

For someone who is a predator against others in a sexually related way, how will chemical castration deal with their underlying issues?

I have a hard time believing it will do that, and remove all possibility of them harming others.

To me, it sounds like a quick fix. In addition to incarceration, etc., etc., helping victims learn how to cope and get back to living normally may be the most productive thing, when all is said and done.

[Warren DeMontague]

105. How about Y-Chromosome specific Gun Control?

Listen, I'm hardly in the Ted Nugent "shoot 'em, let god sort em out" NRA camp.. But I'm also realistic enough to think that in the USA, banning all firearms is not possible, even if it's desirable.

But when I think of the kinds heavily armed yahoos I don't want threatening me or my family with a gun, be they serial rapist or nutjob right-wing yahoo, they are invariably, in my head, all men. And we are constantly hearing- rightfully so- what a dangerous country this is for women, how unacceptable levels of violence are done to women.. and this is true. Now, I know the NRA advocates women owning guns for self-defense, and the NRA is generally full of shit... but I think maybe it might work if it was done in the context of women- and ONLY women- being allowed to own or carry firearms.

(I don't imagine that women would be as careless as men, for one thing, in letting their kids get to their guns, for starters.)

I'm a man, and I would have NO problem with that kind of an idea.

[PaDem]

111. How about..........

offering the chronic pedophile a choice?. Life in prison or chemical castration after time served.

[Nevernose]

114. Studies show it's ineffective

And no, I can't point to the studies. One of my best friends, however, is a dyed-in-the-wool Southern Babtist, fundamentalist Christian, neo-conservative whack job (yes, this says a lot about my choice of friends). He also happens to be your typical right-wing district attorney, and while he does favor the death penalty for anyone convicted of sexual assault, he disagrees with chemical castration -- studies have shown that the perversity is in the mind, not the testicles. At least on this issue, I'm inclined to believe him.

[LisaL]

123. It would have been way better

if you could actually provide link to the studies. Cause I can say studies show that the moon is made of cheese, but without the link-well, it ain't worth anything.
Like, where were the studies carried out? Here in US? Who were they carried out on? That would have been helpful information.
:eyes:

[Stinky The Clown]

115. Lemme proffer a twist on some of the "punishment" posts here .....

I originally started with a request that we discuss castration for these people. Many felt it was good idea - for various reasons. Others disagreed, thinking it could not be more wrong - with actual, logical reasons set out. But in the end, there was no meeting of minds. And there may never be ......... so ......

..... let''s maybe bat this idea around ......

Is it reasonable to simply say there are some crimes (or at least some criminals) for which there is little hope of rehabilitation and for which the sentence could or should be entirely punitive, with not even a nod toward the notion of rehabilitation or cure? In short, some people are so evil that society - a reasoned society, if one were to exist - wants nothing to do with them and ( ..... enter your idea for punishment here ....) ..... life without parole? .... death sentence ..... "Escape from Manhattan" ...... what?

[BBradley]

117. What about removing the fingers of thieves?

[Jesus Saves]

118. It's the repukes' fault

Seriously, that's how I see this issue. The repukes cut funding and cut staff at the agencies that oversee these types of people. I guarantee you that if you went into the offices in FL that were responsible for keeping tabs on these people you would find them underfunded and undermanned. I guarantee it. I bet their computer systems are ancient and crumbling.

The repukes cut taxes for the rich, starve government. Then tragedies happen and they get everyone all riled up and take all the outrage and funnel it into more tax cuts and more breaks for corporations. They never fix the problems they never address the real issues. The bottom line is that the worst of the worst - those offenders who have records of nonconsensuality and violence are the ones to watch (or lock up for longer). You just got to go within in the rolls of the sex offenders, find those types, and then put a more concerted effort to keep up on them. But you see that would take more money.

It's the sleazy repukes' fault. The blood is on their hands.

[Hippo_Tron]

119. I think it's unconstitutional

If it's not cruel, it's CERTAINlY unusual.

[imenja]

126. It is barbaric

and not effective. Men can and do take testosterone enhancements to get around this. For me the solution is this: if a person is still a thread to others, particularly children, he should not be let out of prison. If he is going to repeat offend, keep him locked up forever if necessary.