Regarding the "Fundies": Whateverhappened to JUST PLAIN CRAZY?

[Tyler Durden]

"Our assylums are full of people who think they're Napoleon....or God." Sean Connery as James Bond in Dr. No.

Say I show up, shaved to the waste in a white pleated silk skirt (the uniform of a high priest in the an ancient religion), stand in the middle of the square in AnyCity, Redstate, USA.

I fall to my knees and start weeping (yes, I'm a pretty fair community theater actor and can cry on demand).

I raise my hands to the sky, and start blubbering, LOUDLY, about my love for MARDUK, brother of Ishtar and King of the skies and how he has changed my life and my eternal devotion to Him and my hope to be raised to Elysium when I die AND IS SPEAKING TO ME RIGHT NOW, and I start relating his words to the growing crowd. I start confronting people about how MARDUK abhors eating meat by setting up my show outside the local McDonalds (not on their property, of course) and start condemning the exiting patrons to eternal damnation for their blasphemy, and that the King must condemn them to DEATH.

I keep this up, sincerely, for about an hour. Does someone call the folks at the local "Happy Hotel" to get me some help (OR to prevent me from hurting myself or others in my obvious delusional state)?

Now substitute JESUS for MARDUK and son of the BVM for brother of Istar, and Heaven for Elysium, the cassock of a Catholic Priest for the Priest of Marduk getup, and the show is moved to the local Democratic party headquarters and features a rant about the depravity of Liberalism, and that all people going in and out are filth and sinners for their support of Women's rights, Choice, and for their indifference to the 10 commandments absolute necessity in schools. I let you all know just where you'll be (likely jail) when the Government finally recognizes the PRIMACY of the ONE TRUE LIVING GOD AND HIS SON JESUS (just to make sure you Jews, Hindus, Muslims, etc don't think you're getting off the hook). Does ANYONE call the folks with the restraints?

Didn't think so.

THIS is why I DO NOT support your "RIGHT" to harangue me with your "WITNESS."
THIS is why I feel any politician who plays the "religion" card every time they spew "GOD BLESS AMERICA!" or swears "SO HELP ME GOD" ought to be run out of the government for violation of the constitution.

If you are religious, and believe you have to wear God on your sleave EVERYWHERE YOU GO, TOUGH SHIT. This is not yet a THEOCRACY, and YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO TRY TO RECRUIT ME OR MY FAMILY INTO YOUR "CULT."

HOWEVER, IF you keep your private religious beliefs PRIVATE, I have no issue with you in the slightest.

I take that back: I still think RELIGIOUS MONETARY PROFITS MUST BE TAXED.

[JamboGuide]

1. Bush brought them out of the closet n/t

[goodboy]

2. wow...I love it. Kick.

[mopaul]

3. STAINWORSHIPPERS

it's getting scary around here in america.

[mopaul]

4. chriSTAINity

the worship of a stain that resembles a diety

[Tyler Durden]

7. mo, that is SO COOL.

I'm going to make a point of stealing and using it.

[youthere]

15. A little bit

of CLR would take care of that in a jiff.

[goodboy]

5. roflmao "stainworshippers"

[Norquist Nemesis]

33. LOL...me too! It has the dual meaning of the soiled blue dress!

:rofl:

[Rich Hunt]

24. yes, it is scary

It's scary that people are so humorless that they can't recognize an obvious hoax. Or maybe they choose to believe that certain groups of people aren't capable of irony.

[Selteri]

6. I completely agree with you

If I were to go outside of the Luxor, onto the street, wearing proper Egyptian Priestly garb and decry the sacreligious nature with it and it's orientation, that it is being used for Gambling. I'd either be hired as a weekly show or carted off to the funny farm.

If I did the same thing outside of the Luxor dressed as a Catholic Priest and decried it for being sacreligious for the gambling inside I'd bbe ignored at best and likely catch at least a few people up in my insanity.

And I do agree, at this point the churches have put their face into politics enough that they have soured the pool for all religious groups, they have earned taxation for their choice of making themselves a part of the political process.

[FreedomAngel82]

20. It's true

It's true. If you were down here in the south and started mumbling in the streets about anybody but God or Jesus someone would've come by right away and taken you to an insane house or something and it would be all over the rightwing radio shows and tv shows. But whenever someone claims to see the virgin Mary or Jesus in places they place candles and everything around the place and it's called a "miracle." I'm Christian and even I think it's screwed up.

[earth mom]

8. It's gone WAY TOO FAR & FAR TOO LONG no doubt about it. eom

[havocmom]

9. During a class field trip to a state hospital eons ago, I met god.

Well, he said he was god and I really have no evidence that he was wrong. He pushed a broom and told me about his fellow ward patients.

He was more calm, more concerned, more rational and made more sense than most of people I see speaking from the halls of government theses days. And he was in a locked ward under close scrutiny.

[Tyler Durden]

10. Naw. God is BLACK, 6'2" and a MSGYSGT in the Marines....

Or at least Jesus is, according to the abovementioned Marine who claimed to be Christ.

I ran into him on the NNMC Psychiatric Ward when I was a Hospital Corpsman. I was in no position to disagree.

[havocmom]

13. Your guy claimed to be Christ. Cool. My guy said he was god.

He also said he liked me and to show his affection, he would send the sun to shine on my backyard the next day. AND IT DID!!!* (See, one more thing he did that those neocons in government don't do, he actally followed through and provided me with what he said he would!)


*still trying to figre how he knew the back yard faced east

[Bridget Burke]

11. They have every right in the world to witness.

Religion should stay out of our government, but it is not up to you to dictate what others can do.

If they offend you, you are quite free to answer them back. But do it to their faces, not anonymously on a message board.

[Tyler Durden]

17. Have no doubts, I DO...

But in my lovely little conservative community, that makes me AND MY FAMILY, INTOLERANT, BLASPHEMOUS, HELL-BOUND CRANKS.

And they can WITNESS all they want, but the moment they point at ME, THEIR RIGHT TO CONDEMN ME EVAPORATES.

[Just a guy_withaVOTE]

23. I don't understand...

"the moment they point at ME, THEIR RIGHT TO CONDEMN ME EVAPORATES. "

so if you point at someone, you lose your freedom of speech?
It's not freedom of speech if you only allow people to say what you want them to say

[Tyler Durden]

27. Your freedom of speech ENDS when it's HATE SPEECH.

"KILL THE N*GGER! BURN THE JEW!"

WARM UP THE HOLY INQUISITION! Your right to spew your bile at me (not that you're doing it) so that it targets me for discrimination at best and violence at worst DOES NOT EXIST.

[Just a guy_withaVOTE]

28. hate speech

yeah those are pretty awful things to say ( or even write)

however, you are saying that you have the right to prevent people saying things that you don't like. ( The fact that I find them hateful also doesn't matter. I don't believe I have the right to control what people say).

The problem is that there is no clear firm line. As you pointed out, there are groups that don't consider what you said to be hate speech. I can also tell you that there are groups that would consider what you have said to be exactly that.

I don't think there is any one group that I trust enough to give them my freedom of speech. That is what you asking people to do.

[dpibel]

29. Quick lesson on the Constitution

If I tell you to STFU, it's not a constitutional issue, so invoking free speech is, at best, a red herring. You have no "right" to say anything to me.

If the government tells you to STFU (other than in limited, reasonably well-defined areas), that's a constitutional issue.

You certainly have the freedom to try to tell me the Good News, or anything else that's on your mind. You just have no constitutionally protected right to do it.

That's why the tombstones which litter this forum have nothing to do with free speech, at least as a constitutional concept.

[Just a guy_withaVOTE]

30. Longer lesson

Here is the text of the first amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"

This is the portion of the Constitution guaranteeing my freedom of speech. As you point out, STFU is not explicitly mentioned. HOWEVER, it does expressly protect the free exercise of religion. It also forbids Congress to prohibit free speech.

In other words, an individuals right to tell you about his religion is constitutionally protected. As is your right to tell him to STFU.

[Tyler Durden]

19. Oh and on the subject of "anonymity"...

My name is THOMAS JOHNSON, and I live in ST. CLAIR, MICHIGAN, and I am SICK of religion being a pre-requisite to being a CITIZEN.

How's THAT for breaking anonymity?

[FizzFuzz]

32. Does that mean they have the right to witness at work?

Do they have the right to announce in work settings their abstinence until marriage that they practice with their fiancee? Do they have the right to display and call attention to their beliefs when those beliefs include political leanings including a desire to strip gay people of their civil rights and legal protections (keeping in mind that there are many gay people in that work environment), enforced pregnancy on all women who choose to engage in sex, sending abstinence missionaries to Africa where the actual people are crying for condoms and factual, scientific help in the AIDS crisis (not to mention unwanted pregnancy, poverty, the severly oppressed status of women, etc. etc)?

I'm serious about these questions, I hope I don't sound confrontative. I admit I'm angry though (not at you personally), just angry at this situation.

[Just a guy_withaVOTE]

12. I think freedom of speech is important

but apparently you are thinking that religion is so abhorrent that freedom of speech should not apply.

I think that is dangerous to an open society. As they say regarding TV, just turn the channel. Really, I think the wierdo on the street corner actually promotes people away from his cause, so in a way, he is working for you.

Realize of course, that as soon as we start forbidding speech that is objectionable, there will be someone out there who finds our speech objectionable.

[Discord]

16. the OP isn't suggesting RELIGION is abhorrent,

but that people who claim to be hearing voices that are saying its God, or that they are having hallucinations about seeing angels and Jesus coming to see them is INSANITY!

Its called delusional schizophrenia.

[Tyler Durden]

18. NO, I DO NOT.

What I consider abhorent is the toleration, nay, BEATIFICATION of the RELIGIOUSLY AGRESSIVE FUNDAMENTALISTS who feel free to condemn me and mine.

Tell you what: How about, like the church I last let my children attend (how's THAT for being open minded?) said, it's OK to discriminate vigorously against ANYONE actively practicing what they considered "sin": living together out of marriage or single never married parents, Gays or Lesbians, people of non-christian religions, ALL IN THE SPIRIT OF HELPING THEM TO BE "SAVED."

[Just a guy_withaVOTE]

22. Three separate issues.

The freedom of speech: the right of the weirdo on the street corner to say what he believes is true.

The freedom of assembly: the right of like-minded individuals to form an organization exclusive of outside control and by that nature allowed to include or exlude whatever individuals it did not wish to associate with. This would include the right of DU to exclude freepers, and the the right of the Catholic church to exclude Moslems. (or others they do share beliefs with.

Discrimination: denying civil rights to specific groups.

Discrimination is wrong and indefensible. I'm not sure how conservatives justify the anti-gay marriage efforts, but I'm sure it not a particularly plausible argument. However, it should be pointed out that in the case you describe, the discrimination was defeated simply by not joining a group that practiced it.

However, the first two items are indispensible to the workings of a healthy democracy, and I do not think it would pleasant to live in a country that did not give us those rights.

[FizzFuzz]

34. don't join the group that discriminates--

yes, valid point, but what I have a problem with, and I think the OP is expressing the same idea, is that the discriminatory group is hijacking all public discourse. The discrimination is echoing through all channels of the larger culture, making it more and more difficult to separate oneself from the oppression.

At the same time, the more the hate reveals itself, the more it will create division between those who want this old, ugly way of life, and those who want a world of peace, dignity and respect for all.

Welcome to DU, by the way :hi:

[youthere]

14. Dang!

That sounds like a helluva show! I'd pay a dollar to see that!
:popcorn:

Of course, when I used to work in the city, I always liked sitting outside on my lunch hour watching the extreme fundies scream on the street corner, but then again I'm easily amused.

I agree with you 100% on the taxation.
Excellent post.

[smirkymonkey]

21. Kicked and nominated!

:kick:

[Cats Against Frist]

25. Here! Here! or is that "Hear! Hear!?"

And I'm not anti-religious -- but I want the monopoly on my own fucking delusions, without having to worry about being repressed by someone else's. I, personally, belong to the Gnostic-Buddhist Church of the Jesus and Thomas Jefferson," and yeah -- I pretty much think your soul is rotten if you don't believe in the Enlightenment, egalitarianism, the golden rule and self-deferrence. That said, you can't change to my "religion" by chanting a jingle in a waffle house -- and I don't give a fuck if anyone else is "saved."

They have a term for it in psychology -- it's called "hyperreligiosity," I believe -- and it is CERTAINLY not being used to its full potential.


Watch out now, they'll call you a "basher," because you don't want to pray to the holy waffle.

[Cats Against Frist]

26. Oh, and watch out for the "argumentum ad populum"

which is inevitably the retort you will get -- "but...but...it's true because it has endured, because, because so many people have believed it, over time."

Buzz. Logical fallacy. Thank you for playing.

[Gelliebeans]

31. I'm sure this will come up again

tomorrow same time, same bat channel ;)