Oskar Schindler should have told the nazis to go to hell

[CBGLuthier]

At least that seems to be the viewpoint of those condemning Ratzinger.

Everyone who in anyway worked with the nazis, even if they weren;t evil and maybe had some hopes for a better future, should be roundly condemned.

So Schindler should have just gotten his ass shot rather than work with those nazis.

That's my take on what some are saying here.

It's bullshit of course but someone tell me the difference.

[Sandpiper]

1. Was Ratzinger using his position to save Jewish lives?

If not, your comparison seems specious at best.

[Cuban_Liberal]

15. Was Schindler 14?

The other comparisons are also specious, folowing that logic.

[Sandpiper]

28. What I was inarticulately attempting to say is

There is a very sharp difference between going along/maintaining the pretense of going along with a system to actively accomplish a greater good, and merely going along to get along.

Therein lies the fundamental reason why such a comparison is specious.

[Cuban_Liberal]

34. I know.

And my point was that he was a 14 year-old kid.

Peace.

--CL

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. No.

We're not going to make Oskar Schindler Pope though. Big, BIG difference.

[mark414]

3. AND schindler was saving lives

big difference indeed

[Democrats_win]

4. Good point, but didn't Schindler make it a point to make pots and pans?

If I recall any military stuff he made was "defective."

[Lone Pawn]

5. The difference, in case you're wondering, is

that Schindler was working to save Jewish lives from within while Ratzinger first served as an antiaircraft guard at a plant using Dachau slave labor and then dug tank traps to prevent the Russians from reaching Austrian concentration camps.

[Sandpiper]

7. The best thing that can be said for Ratzinger

Is that he was reluctantly going with the flow to save himself from trouble with the civil authorities.

This stands in stark contrast to Oskar Schindler who was actively trying to save lives at great personal risk to himself.

[chicagiana]

18. Saving yourself at the expense of others ...

It isn't exactly "Holy Father" material is it. Not a man you would think was listening to God all his life.

Schindler is like a "Psaul of Tarsus" figure. A sinner who repented (in a BIG way). But not a Holy Father.

Ratzinger didn't even save any lives. And deserting an Army that is literally falling apart as it backpedals away from Soviet Army isn't exactly hero material.

A German citizen who told Hitler to go F- himself in 1942... THAT is Jesus Like material!!!!

Don't forget that the Pope is the recipient of Jesus' ministry on Earth. Thats why they call him the Holy Father. The torch was passed from Jesus to Peter, and to every Pope since.

[fishwax]

23. beautifully put

Sure seems obvious ...

[Hobarticus]

6. NOW you've done it, you rotten Nazi apologist...

Here come the flame posts!

[TahitiNut]

8. Oskar Schindler was in the Hitler Youth and then the Wehrmacht???

Wow! I never knew that! Did he also man an anti-aircraft gun? Amazing! When was he elected Pope? :eyes:

By the way, when did Ratzinger sabotage the Nazi war effort? Schindler produced only defective artillery shell casings, deliberately sabotaging the war machine. What did Ratzinger do?

[Hobarticus]

11. You quote John Paul II in your sig line...

JP suffered under the Nazis, yet he worked with Ratzinger for years. He was able to reconcile the past, and he LIVED in it.

[TahitiNut]

30. "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer." (anon)

:shrug:

Clue: When I quote someone, it's not a nomination for their sainthood; it's merely a quote. When I properly attribute the quote, it's NOT in subordination to their (inferred, not implied) authority; it's merely giving due credit for the quote.

[China_cat]

12. I think the difference might be stated in terms of age.

Schindler was an adult, already in a position to do something, running a business...somebody those in power were more likely to at least give a hearing. Ratzinger was a KID. When was the last time you took a 14 year old seriously about anything?

[chicagiana]

20. Jesus ...

Jesus ... the man whose place Ratzinger is filling on Earth.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

21. How about every day?

Visit any war torn country, and you can bet your ass 14 year olds are making more important decisions than the vast majority of Americans, regardless of age.

[chicagiana]

19. The ditches he dug ...

They weren't deep enough.

[dsc]

35. He was an adult NAZI

and his initial motive in joining was to make tons of money. Only upon seeing the horror, did he become Schindler.

[Stryguy]

9. World of difference

If Ratzinger has some tales about how he saved hundreds of Jews from extermination or hid entire families then perhaps he should tell them.

If he has stories about how he helped organized Jewish slave labor outside of concentration camps (which he did) then perhaps he won't be including them in his memoires.

[Hobarticus]

14. He was FOURTEEN!!!! What did you accomplish at 14???

What is with you people?

Comparing a wealthy adult businessman to a teenaged seminary student is ridiculous!!!

[Stryguy]

17. Lets see. At 14 I didn't.....

Man an anti-aircraft gun.

Organize Slave labor.

Try to keep allied troops from reaching Jews in concentration camps.

I'm not saying we try the guy for war crimes. But I am saying we call a spade a spade.

In the mean time there were french resistance soldiers who were younger than 14.

All the excuses in the world can be made. But obviously better choices could have filled the Paple seat.

[Hobarticus]

22. Ratzinger organized slave labor? Link, please.

You're right, better choices could have been made. The guy's a terrible choice, but not for something he did sixty years ago as a teenage boy in wartime.

[fishwax]

24. Uh, it was the OP who compared them, and said there was no difference

So people point out the difference and you think they're being unreasonable?

[Hobarticus]

25. Uh, I'm not responding to the OP. eom

[fishwax]

27. Duh. You're responding to someone who did, and acting like

they're irrational for doing just what the OP asked them to do: point out a difference between Schindler and Ratzinger. Just like I said in my post. :shrug:

<<What is with you people?

Comparing a wealthy adult businessman to a teenaged seminary student is ridiculous!!!>>

[Lone Pawn]

32. How about when he was EIGHTEEN?

He served until the few weeks before the German surrendered--he didn't leave the German army until even after the Russians took Berlin.

[Jacobin]

10. Wow. This board has become amazing

Hitler enabler apologists are coming out of the woodwork.

Who woulda thunk it?

Slight difference between a Hitler Youth army dude and an undercover guy saving scores of Jews from the gas chambers.

I don't get the comparison. Exactly how did Ratzinger do his undercover work to save people from gas chambers or otherwise defy Hitler? You provide no details.

[Hobarticus]

13. "Hitler enabler apologists"....nice.

This board has indeed become amazing.

[Hav]

38. .

At the age of 5, Ratzinger was campaigning for Hitler. You didn't know that, did you? Ratzinger at the age of -3 also helped Hitler to write "Mein Kampf".

[chicagiana]

16. Oskar Schindler ...

Oskar Schindler wasn't chosen Pope.

I do not condemn a man for sinning and then repenting. I condemn selection of a man who has so clearly sinned and donned the frock of Satan's tool on Earth.

[Walt Starr]

26. WOW, which Pope was Schindler? n/t

[Solly Mack]

29. I just can't wait for "Ratzinger's List" to come out!

I'm so excited about seeing it! Who did they get to direct it?

The only neck Ratzinger saved during WWII was his own...don't compare him to those who put their necks on the line to save others.

[mitchum]

31. I am far more troubled by Ratzinger's membership in Opus Dei...

than by his Hitler Youth membership

[Cuban_Liberal]

36. You have proof of that?

I'd be interested to see it.

[mitchum]

37. As soon as Ratzinger can prove his magic man in the sky

[Nikia]

33. We have to expect more from the Pope

I started off thinking that him being involved with Hitler Youth was no big deal. One of my Jewish grandmother's German immigrant friends was growing up. They were teens, it doesn't mean that they are Nazis.
On the otherhand, the Pope is supposed to be an extrordinary person, not average or typical. The previous Pope was risking his life during WWII and under Communism. For the new Pope to have joined Hitler Youth, was typical for a German teenager, but Ratzinger shouldn't have been typical.