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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 06:46 PM
Original message
Why I think Pope Benedict is terrible choice
Edited on Tue Apr-19-05 07:14 PM by LibraLiz1973
If you look the other way at Pedophelia you aren't worthy of wearing the robe, much less having the title.

IMHO the Catholic Church is in extreme crisis. Pope Benedict can spout official doctrine all the live long day but allowing THOUSANDS of CHILDREN to be sexually molested is the ultimate sin. This is the part of the Catholic church that makes me sick. :puke:

Apparently it's a-ok to condemn gays & tell people that using birth control is a sin. It's archaic and destructive to tell people that using condoms is a no-no. It's sick to persecute people for being born a certain way. The church doctrine is so two faced- they want to tell you all the things YOU can't do..
But it's ok for the priests to sodomize children.
Something seems off there. Is it just me?
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Retired AF Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. Has the new pope
said it it ok to sodomize children? Let's wait and see what happens.
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Well... he's sat on the sidelines FOR YEARS
while this has gone on... And after PJ2 died it was widely understood that Ratzinger was probably the next Pope. And he ok'd that piece of crap Law to do a papal mass.

I'm sorry- trying to make excuses is pathetic
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I think that not out and out condemning it
and DE-frocking the priests who do it is a sin.
I have a zero tolerance policy for sexual predators.
Molesting a child is completely unacceptable & can never be forgiven.

I don't believe any priest that has molested a child is getting anywhere near heaven, nor do I believe that they know anything about god. Those men are guided by a power VERY UN-godlike.
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n2mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is where I have a little problem
Okay, first of all I do not condone their actions. Let's get this straight right now.

Isn't it interesting this came to the forefront after the election of the shrub.

Sorry, I smell a rat here, something is not right. This happened in the 70's which tells me someone from the 70's knew this stuff, kept it for the right moment, than let it loose.

Why after 30 years does this come to the front? Won't except times have changed, they changed several years ago. They changed after the neocons took charge.

Hey, don't tell me I don't understand, I do. Believe me and trust me. Something sparked this You don't keep a secret unless someone is encouraging you to open up the can of worms. Someone opened up the can of worms with encouragement. Again, I don't condone this, but something is not right.
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I agree that something isn't right
This always needed to be taken seriously & needed to be put out to the public... yet it wasn't. For too many years too many people were content to cover it up. It isn't that dissimilar to the political pedophile charges that are coming out now. For whatever reason it is in the public eye now. In both cases I don't see alot of forward motion to investigate or resolve.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Please. This scandal hit Chicago 20 plus years ago.
...and is YET to hit Europe (but I'm sure it will.)

What are you implying?
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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. SeigHeil! He was a member of the Hitler Youth...
...and that is reason enough for me to believe he is a horrible choice. All else just makes it even worse!
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. The world is taking a very evil turn.
Benedict can only say he was an "unwilling Nazi" and that seems to be enough for folks. If you even question it you are "anti-religion". The theocratic stars are aligning IMHO.
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Exactly. If you question your going to hell.
That's disturbing.
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n2mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. It is actually getting very very warm in my house
guess my days are numbered. Earth is hell!
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I think those of us that question might be living
on top of a heat factory.

Damn! Now we wont get into heaven & we wont be raptured!!!!!
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. "You're either with us or against us" these days n/t
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. The world is in a really screwy place
I'm not talking rapture here but... things are off
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Oh yeah? Anti-religion? I'm just Anti-Hitler & Anti-Nazi.
Is that the argument for child-molesting Priests? You camplain = you're "anti-religion"?

IMHO it's ANTIJESUS & AntiGOD to be a Nazi or to fail to protect children.
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Atlas Mugged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. That picture of Clark is SO. DAMNED. HOT.
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cosmokramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
63. I know :-)
:evilgrin:

:kick:
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Cocottelle Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. americans want
to control the world, and now we want to control the catholic church too?
Let me first say that the percentile of pedophilics in the church is not as big as you might have been led to believe. How many make up the clergy? How many have been accused of pedophilia?
Pedophilia is a crime and should be punished. But the clergy is not made up of pedophilic men.
The church chose who they want to lead the church. If you and I don't like it, we are always welcome to go workship somewhere else.
The majority of catholics are elsewhere in the world. In fact, catholics could cease to exist in the states and the church would not feel a big impact.
Reporters in the italian news were already predicting that americans were not going to be welcoming a conservative pope. Well, booohoo to us. The church is the church. It is not going to change to accomodate us! We sure have big egos in this country!
Hey, I may not agree with some of the older doctrines of the church. That doesn't mean i don't respect the church. Again, I don't have to worship or belong to any religion i don't like.
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Your making it a regional thing
I see it as a global problem. How many cases world wide? For me, 1 is unacceptable. We're talking THOUSANDS.
Don't be fool enough to think that ONLY Americans have a penchant for pedophelia.
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Cocottelle Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. FYI
The catholic church IS NOT the only church who has been dealing with pedophilia... I never said that pedophilia is a problem that is exclusive of the US. It is not exclusive of the catholic church either.
I wonder how comfortable those who are writing their opinions about how fit the new Pope is for his job -- leading THE CATHOLICS--- would feel about posting their opinions about the Jews and the Muslims... and...
You don't like the catholic church, you dont like the pope? You can always leave. You are always welcome to workship elsewhere.

BUT of course, we always have the choice of declaring them a major thread and go blow up the Vatican.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Are we allowed to post our opinions, your highness?
Or should we "leave" du as well?
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Cocottelle Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. I am entitled to my opinion too
The USA is a democrtic country. The church is not a democracy.
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Thats right . The church isn't a democracy.
Edited on Tue Apr-19-05 09:14 PM by LibraLiz1973
They just force feed opinions at will, regardless of right or wrong.
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Cocottelle Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Free will, they don't make you stay
therefore, right or wrong utimately is for YOU and/or I to decide. When YOU or I decide that they are wrong... and it doesn't work ... we can walk out... or become involved in the church and try to change the doctrine. However, you/I can't change the church from the outside. Historically, only catholics have changed catholic doctrines.
He is the Pope for those who ARE CATHOLIC. Those who are catholic today can decide if they want to leave because they don't agree with the Pope the Conclave chose. i doubt many would do so.
In the meantime, here in america we will whine about how the pope doesn't fit our life-styles even if we have a relatively small amount of catholics because we want the world to conform to our standards even when it really doesn't affect us.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #28
35. ???
"here in america we will whine about how the pope doesn't fit our life-styles even if we have a relatively small amount of catholics because we want the world to conform to our standards even when it really doesn't affect us."

I am not "whining" about anything.
I got a serious problem with a pope and a church who are killing people because of their "beliefs".
It ain't got nothing to do with being catholic or religious, sister.
It's about right and wrong.
Telling people that condoms don't prevent AIDS is wrong.
Telling people that condoms are laced with the AIDS virus is wrong.
Lying to people when you know they will die as a result is MURDER.

How dare you accuse people of caring because "we want to control the world"?

Maybe millions dying for a "belief" doesn't affect YOU but it sure the hell affects me.
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Cocottelle Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Well
Don't be catholic. The catholic church is not going to change into a one-size -fits -all church for us.
There are other religions with the same beliefs.
It works for them. It is their right to be catholics,muslims, jews or what-have-you, and follow the path they believe is right.
In the mean time you can practice your right of not belonging to the church. No one is making you be catholic, right?
Let people practice their religion. The catholic church works for millions. They agree with the church and their teachings. Where would they go if the church changed their beliefs?
Should they change the church to adjust to your beliefs and send their faithfull to workship else-where?
We sure have BIG EGOS!
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Wow.
Just wow.

You really think I give a shit what deity anybody worships?
I don't CARE about what they believe, please spare me the persecuted act, it's stale.

I do CARE when the beliefs of others prevent human rights for all.

I do CARE when they KILL PEOPLE in poor countries.

You obviously think that killing brown people is just part of their "beliefs" and is practicing their "religion".

I don't.

I think it's a crime against humanity and I WILL NOT SHUT UP ABOUT IT UNTIL THEY STOP KILLING PEOPLE.

got it?
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Cocottelle Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Blah blah blah
Killing brown people?
Get your stuff together, bring in logical proof for your point of view. You start out saying you don't like the pope, you end up tying hte new pope with the nazis. Go read what the jews said about Ratzinger. He was 14 and did not have a choice but to join the nazi youth. Do your research before you reach conclusions.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Do you have any idea which poster you're addressing?
I never said I didn't like the pope and I never tied him to the nazi's.
Get a grip.

I won't upset you with any more facts, it's obvious how this is affecting you. When you're well enough to do some research of your own try here first:

This is from the CATHOLIC NEWS website:
"CathNews is a service of Church Resources. It is a daily news service with prayer, meditation and Catholic website reviews. It is the most visited Catholic website in Australia, providing a mix of news and prayer updated daily, which is also available free of charge by email. As of February 2004, there were more than 10,000 email subscribers and almost 9000 visits to the site each day."

http://www.cathnews.com/news/310/53.php

The Guardian
Thursday October 9, 2003
Steve Bradshaw

" Vatican: condoms don't stop Aids "

"The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which HIV can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.
The church is making the claims across four continents despite a widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to HIV.
A senior Vatican spokesman backs the claims about permeable condoms, despite assurances by the World Health Organisation that they are untrue."

"The president of the Vatican's Pontifical Council for the Family, Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, told the programme: "The Aids virus is roughly 450 times smaller than the spermatozoon. The spermatozoon can easily pass through the 'net' that is formed by the condom."

"The WHO has condemned the Vatican's views, saying: "These incorrect statements about condoms and HIV are dangerous when we are facing a global pandemic which has already killed more than 20 million people, and currently affects at least 42 million."

"In Lwak, near Lake Victoria, the director of an Aids testing centre says he cannot distribute condoms because of church opposition. Gordon Wambi told the programme: "Some priests have even been saying that condoms are laced with HIV/Aids.
Panorama found the claims about permeable condoms repeated by Catholics as far apart as Asia and Latin America."

source:http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,7369,1059068,00 ....

Here are some other links Catholic News provides:

Vatican: condoms don't stop Aids (The Guardian)
Vatican in HIV condom row
Vatican says condoms don't stop AIDS (Reuters)
Program: Vatican misinforming on condoms (UPI)
Vatican Says Condoms Don't Block HIV, BBC Reports (Bloomberg)
Catholic Relief Services: HIV/AIDS in Africa
African Jesuit AIDS Network
Pope urges AIDS programs that respect church teaching (24/9/03)
Kenyan archbishop warns condoms will not prevent AIDS (5/8/03)
Catholic bishops back government AIDS plan (14/8/03)
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Cocottelle Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. I replied to the wrong
person. My apologies.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. No problem.
I think you are mistaking my criticism of the church as criticism of religious beliefs and it's not.
Many catholics also criticize their church's policies in these areas.
I criticize governments, politicians and leaders just as often and just as loudly.
If their policies adversely affect the lives of others, we are obligated as humans to speak out.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #28
57. The Catholic church has meddled into the politics of many countries
with some truly horrendous results. Please read the impact the church has had on AIDS prevention programs in the third world. There are many governments who have bent their official policies to EXCLUDE condom education and distribution after being pressured by the church. Yes, thousands of people dying each day of AIDS in Africa does not affect me personally, but it deeply offends my own personal ethics.

It's about much more than "whining". BTW, I am a disgusted ex-member of the Catholic Church, and I will continue to speak out when the Church's policies cause such egregious pain and suffering.


<snip>
In addition to insisting that there is no room within Catholic theology to allow the compassionate use of condoms, officials of the Catholic church have repeatedly tried to cast doubt on the effectiveness of condoms in fighting AIDS. In Kenya, even as the government belatedly declared that the AIDS epidemic was reaching crisis levels, Catholic Bishop John Njue propagated false scientific information by claiming that condoms are to blame for the spread of AIDS.38 Shortly after AIDS was declared a national emergency in the country and the government officially embraced the use of condoms to curb the epidemic—over the loud objections of the Catholic church—a member of the Kenyan Parliament called the church “the greatest impediment in the fight against HIV/AIDS.”39 The impact of the church is so great that Paul Delay, who heads USAID’s AIDS programs, said the agency has asked the Catholic church not to say anything about condoms “if you can’t say anything nice,” particularly in regard to casting doubts on the effectiveness of condoms.40

In 1997, a doctor who is a member of the Vatican Council for the Family said that using condoms will not prevent HIV infection. Father Jacques Suaudeau wrote in the journal Medicina e Morale,”Using a condom to protect yourself against HIV amounts to playing Russian roulette.”41 A report from the National Institutes of Health in the United States recently confirmed the predominant medical opinion that “consistent and correct condom use prevents...HIV infection.”42 Despite medical opinion confirming the use of condoms to prevent HIV, it seems as if the church’s anti-condom propaganda may be winning converts. A recent survey conducted by the Kenyan Media Institute found that 54% of Kenyans do not believe that condoms are effective in preventing HIV and that “condoms encourage immorality, which exposes people to the risk of contracting the virus.”43

In Africa and around the world the hierarchy of the Catholic church has worked actively to suppress condom use, education and distribution. In 1996, the local Roman Catholic church in Tegucigalpa, Honduras, prevented the distribution of one million condoms by health and election officials at polling stations during a primary election. Honduras has the highest incidence of AIDS in Central America.44 That same year, in Nairobi, Kenya, Cardinal Maurice Otunga, Kenya’s leading Roman Catholic church official, burned boxes of condoms and safe sex literature.45 After Brazil launched an innovative AIDS prevention program that stressed the need for the use of condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS, Brazilian Roman Catholic officials criticized the program for not stressing abstinence. Cardinal Eugenio Sales of Rio de Janeiro said the campaign would stimulate sexual activity, thereby spreading AIDS.46 Just this year in Zambia, health officials withdrew a hard-hitting anti-AIDS campaign that urged safe sex and condom use after the church complained that it promoted promiscuity.47


http://www.condoms4life.org/facts/lesserEvil.htm
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. You know, not so many outside of US.
If only because so many priests outside of the US have women, like women, and keep them on the side. Seriously. The church used to be the place for people who liked women, wanted to have women, but didn't have any means. In some countries, that would mean that they wouldn't have gotten married anyway. So they go into the priesthood and have a quiet affair with some widow lady.

Only in the US did the clergy find itself a haven for people who didn't get married because they like boys.

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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. There is truth to that for sure
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. You are very, very, very wrong.
Those who facilitate murder are murderers. Those who facilitate pedophilia are pedophiles.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER OR NOT YOU'VE EVER TOUCHED A CHILD IN YOUR LIFE.

As you said, pedophilia is a crime. It's not a disease, as the crazies at the Vatican would like you, and need you to believe.
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
22. Not to be psycho but there is a LOOK about him I don't like
Edited on Tue Apr-19-05 09:08 PM by LibraLiz1973







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Roxy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. You know...I was thinking the same thing...he gives me the creeps!!
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. It's weird- just a general vibe.
I can't explain it but I especially don't like his hands
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Bullshit!!!!
Pedophiles do not become so because they cannot have sex with women. They are pedophiles because they are drawn to pre-teen boys and/or girls.

Pedophile- Profile


Lives alone or with parents ~ This indicator is closely related to the above. Again, by itself, it has little meaning. The fact that a man lives alone does not mean he is a pedophile. The fact that an individual who possesses many of the other traits discussed here and also lives alone might be significant.

Limited dating relationships if not married ~ A man who lives alone, has never been married, and who does not date should arouse suspicion if he possesses other characteristics discussed here.

If married, "special" relationship with spouse ~ When they do marry, pedophiles often marry either a strong, domineering woman or a weak, passive woman-child. In any case, they will marry a woman who does not have high sexual expectations or needs. A woman married to a pedophile may not realize that her husband is a pedophile, but she does know he has a "problem" --a sexual performance problem. Because she may blame herself for this problem and because of the private nature of people’s sex lives, most wives will usually not reveal this information to an investigator...Pedophiles sometimes marry for convenience or cover.

Excessive interest in children How much interest is excessive? This is a difficult question. The old adage "If it sounds too good to be true, maybe it is" may apply here. If someone’s interest in children seems too good to be true, maybe it is. This is not proof that someone is a pedophile, but it is a reason to be suspicious. It becomes more significant when this excessive interest is combined with other indicators.

Associates and circle of friends are young ~ In addition to sexual activity, pedophiles frequently socialize with children. They may hang around schoolyards, arcades, shopping centers-- any place that children frequent. Their "friends" may be male, female, or both sexes, very young or teenagers, all depending on the age and gender preferences of the pedophile.

Limited peer relationships ~ Because they cannot share the most important part of their life (their sexual interest in children) with most adults, pedophiles may have a limited number of those adult friends. Only other pedophiles will validate their sexual behavior...

Age and gender preference ~ Most pedophiles prefer children of a certain sex in a certain age range. The older the age preference of the pedophile, the more exclusive the gender preference. Pedophiles attracted to toddlers are more likely to molest boys and girls indiscriminately. A pedophile attracted to teenagers is more likely to prefer either boys or girls exclusively. The preference age bracket for the child can also vary. One pedophile might prefer boys eight to 10, while another might prefer boys six to 12. A pedophile’s age preference might not even correspond exactly with the legal definitions of a child or minor. For example, a pedophile might prefer sexual partners 13 to 19. How old a child looks and acts is more important than actual chronological age. A 13-year-old child who looks and acts like a 10-year-old child could be a victim target for a molester preferring eight to 10 years olds. For the introverted Preferential Child Molester, how old the child looks is more important than how old the child acts. Puberty seems to be an important dividing line for many pedophiles. This is only an age and gender preference, not an exclusive limitation. Any individual expressing a strong desire to care for or adopt only a child of a very specific sex and age (other than an infant) should be viewed with some suspicion.

Refers to children as "clean," "pure," "innocent," "impish," etc., or as objects ~ Pedophiles sometimes have an idealistic view of children that is expressed in their language and writing. Others sometimes refer to children as if they were objects, projects, or possessions. "This kid has low mileage" and "I’ve been working on this project for six months" are typical comments.

Well-Developed Techniques in Obtaining Victims
Skilled at identifying vulnerable victims ~ Some pedophiles can watch a group of children for a brief period of time and then select a potential target. More often than not, the selected child turns out to be from a broken home or the victim of emotional or physical neglect. This skill is developed through practice and experience.

Identifies with children (better than with adults) ~ Pedophiles have the ability to identify with children better than they do with adults--a trait that makes most pedophiles master seducers of children. They especially know how to listen to children. Many pedophiles are described as "pied pipers" who attract children.
Access to children ~ This is one of the most important indicators of a pedophile. The pedophile will surely have a a method of gaining access to children. Other than simply hanging around places children congregate, pedophiles sometimes marry women simply to gain access to children. Pedophiles are frequently the "nice guys" in the neighborhood who like to entertain the children after school or take them on day or weekend trips. Also, a pedophile may seek employment where he will be in contact with children (teacher, camp counselor, babysitter, school bus driver) or where he can eventually specialize in dealing with children (physician, dentist, minister, photographer, social worker, police officer). The pedophile may also become a scout leader, Big Brother, foster parent, little league coach, and so on. The pedophile may operate a business that hires adolescents. In one case known to the author, a pedophile married, had a daughter, and he molested her. He was the "nice guy" in the neighborhood who had the neighborhood girls over to his house for parties, and he molested them. He was a coach for a girl’s softball team, and he molested them. He was a dentist who specialized in child patients, and he molested them.
Activities with children, often excluding other adults ~ The pedophile is always trying to get children in situations where there are no other adults present. On a boy scout hike he might suggest the fathers go into town for a beer. He will "sacrifice" and stay behind with the boys.

Seduces with attention, affection, and gifts ~ This is the most common technique used by pedophiles. They literally seduce the children by befriending them, talking to them, listening to them, paying attention to them, spending time with them, and buying gifts for them. If you understand the courtship process, it should not be difficult to understand why some child victims develop positive feelings for the offender. Many people can understand why an incest victim might not report his or her father, but they cannot understand why a victim not related to the offender does not immediately report molestation. There are many reasons for a victim not immediately reporting molestation (fear, blackmail, embarrassment, confusion), but the results of the seduction process are often ignored or not understood at all.

Skilled at manipulating children ~ In order to operate a child sex ring involving simultaneous sexual relations with multiple victims, a pedophile must know how to manipulate children. The pedophile uses seduction techniques, competition, peer pressure, child and group psychology, motivation techniques, threats, and blackmail. The pedophile must continuously recruit children into and move children out of the ring without his activity being disclosed. Part of the manipulation process is lowering the inhibitions of the seduction techniques, competition, peer pressure, child and group psychology, motivation techniques, threats, and blackmail. The pedophile must continuously recruit children into and move children out of the ring without his activity being disclosed. Part of the manipulation process is lowering the inhibitions of the children. A skilled pedophile who can get children into a situation where they must change clothing or stay with him overnight will almost always succeed in seducing them. Not all pedophiles possess these skills...

Has hobbies and interests appealing to children ~ This is another indicator that must be considered for evaluation only in connection with other indicators. Pedophiles might collect toys or dolls, build model planes or boats, or perform as clowns or magicians to attract children. A pedophile interested in older children might have a "hobby" involving alcohol, drugs, or pornography.

Shows sexually explicit material to children ~ Any adult who shows sexually explicit material to children of any age should be viewed with suspicion. This is generally part of the seduction process in order to lower inhibitions. A pedophile might also encourage or allow children to call a dial-a-porn service or send them sexually explicit material via a computer as part of this process.

Sexual Fantasies Focusing on Children
Youth-oriented decorations in house or room ~ Pedophiles attracted to teenage boys might have their homes decorated the way a teenage boy would. This might include toys, games, stereos, rock posters, and so on. The homes of some pedophiles have been described as shrines to children or as miniature amusement parks.

Photographing of children ~ This includes photographing children fully dressed. One pedophile bragged that he went to rock concerts with thirty or forty rolls of film in order to photograph young boys. After developing the pictures, he fantasized about having sex with them. Such a pedophile might frequent playgrounds, youth swimming meets, child beauty pageants, or child exercise classes with his camera.

Collecting child pornography or child erotica ~ This is one of the most significant characteristics of pedophiles.



Now make the case to me that he isn't. Yes, innocent unless proved guilty, sure, but would I send my kids anywhere NEAR him? Hell NO. And protecting kids transcends anything anyone would call me. I'm more worried about the KIDS' innocence than I am Jackson's. Read the interviews he gives, look at what he had in that hidden room, and then tell me he isn't. Yes, he was obviously abused himself, but I am more worried about the children involved. Yes the parents of that child who has cancer are scum for handing their child over, but that doesn't make the child himself any less of a victim. And Jackson is loaded with money, he could have contested that first charge. Go read the complaints at the smoking gun website, go read what the detective said, watch him in that special where the British interviewer questioned him. Then tell me he isn't. He IS. And if the facts prove he isn't, in this case I don't give a damn. I worry more about the children involved. You don't gamble with your kids' lives.

Instead of kicking pedophiles out of the Catholic Church and reporting them to the police the Catholic Church Hiearchy sent them to be counseled and then re-located them to other places and often to places where they could continue their pedophlia.
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Cocottelle Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Those who are catholic
KNOW that once a man is ordained priest, he cannot be "de-priested". Let the Catholics deal with their own. In the mean time, all we can do is make sure the law is applied equally to those who are in or out of the church. They are SEPARATE ENTITIES!!!!
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. If the catholics actually DEALT with their own....
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Cocottelle Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Well, they no longer
Edited on Tue Apr-19-05 10:10 PM by Cocottelle
have public burnings and hangings like in the times of inquisition. would that make you feel better? are you pro-death penalty?
they actually dealt with cardinal law. go read about it.
those who saw them acting as cardinal and criticized the church forgot that there is such thing as repentance. Those who are catholics are very familiar with this term since Paul the apostle killed xtians for hobbie.
What we need to focus on is the law... change the law... look at what is happening in Florida with sex off. and kids!
Do we really want separation of church and state or what?
Are we going to become as confused as we say the religious right is...
HELLO!
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. THis is how they "dealt with cardinal law
He gets to preside over this:







Yeah, it must be tough...

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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. That Looks Like A Fucking REWARD To Me.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Yep, they can punish me anytime.
:wow:
Get a load of that dungeon.
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. I know! How do you think Law has survived?
It's down right archaic
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. LOL!
Welcome to DU! What a crazy time to join, glad to see we haven't scared you off!
Thanks for your thoughtful posts, we need more cool heads around here.
:toast:
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #54
60. I really enjoy reading your posts too beam me up scottie!!
Your funny & you think- the 2 requirements for a good post!
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #33
51. Stop talking down to everyone. It's obnoxious
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #27
61. Thanks for posting this.
One of the nasty issues covered up in the media is that many of the victims were teenage boys--far fewer were teenage girls.

This doesn't fall under the usual definition of 'pedophilia'. The lack of appropriateness of the definition was briefly discussed, but buried.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. He's got the same evil look as Richard Perle.
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-05 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. Yes, something disarming about that pic.
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alexisfree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #34
65. hahahahah
"The seed of chucky"!!!!!!
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Betty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #22
55. he looks diabolical
those eyes.... yikes!
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alexisfree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #22
64. el diablo...
waiting for the pope's death!! ...
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Lone Pawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
37. I think he's a terrible choice for other reasons.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
43. what is wrong is that child sexual abuse is a crime, and should be
dealt with in the secular world, instead of protecting criminals within the Church and preventing them from being prosecuted.
The crime is a crime against a person, against society, independent of the church, and for the church to prevent justice in these cases is absolutely obstruction of justice and aiding and abetting a felon.

Can you imagine if a high school track coach molested a series of boys over several decades, and instead of reporting him to authorities, the school board said they'd punish him themselves and merely moved him to a different district where he continued to molest children? Would that be ok with people?

Then why is it ok with some catholics when it involves priests?
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Then why don't parents go to the Secular Authorities?
Complaining to the Bishop might get the alleged offender transferred. And it might earn some hush money.

But nobody will be locked up until there are legal charges & a trial.

Yes, the bishops should have called the police. But it's too bad the parents allowed themselves to be bought off.

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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. well, certainly there is enough blame to go around, but
I would think the church should be the most responsible, since it was their employee.
I wouldn't blame the parents for decades-ago abuse because there was a lot of intimidation and coercion on the part of the church, and let's face it, until recently, who WOULDN"T believe the word of a priest over a little kid?
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Nikia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. The punishment should obviously be defrocking
In the case of your hypothetical coach, the school board better be firing him if there is any evidence of him doing something sexually inappropriate to children. The Catholic Church should be getting rid of priests who did anything sexual to children.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. sorry, not good enough, they have committed a crime and should serve
prison time, at the very least, like every other pedophile
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. The Church cannot jail people. That's up to the state authorities.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. which is why the church should report them, as they should any crime
there is NO valid reason to shield pedophile priests from arrest.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. This is their idea of prison:
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-05 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
53. Its a bad omen
The man is well known in Germany as a repressive influence, and it seems
that the 21st century is where the patriarchys of the world are
elevating their most repressive elements to take down women and the
hard-fought advances of feminism... gay rights as well, as part of the
greater feminist movement.

This scumbag rat-benedict, will hopefully not live to long, and spare
us millions more AIDS deaths and women plunged in to childbirth in the
overpopulated third world by his moralizing.

Indeed, he is a rat in gods garden, chewing away at the plants, to
destroy the females, because he and his ilk hate flowers.

The worst irony, is that catholic is derived from "cathox" a latin
word that means "universal" as the church is intended as the church of
ALL people on this earth... and rather they've elevated a small-hearted
patriarch to repress half the human race... a bad omen indeed.

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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
62. I'll play devil's advocate.
If brevity is the soul of wit, them I'm witless. This may not be brief.

Bishops are managers, both employee relations and customer service; they're also judge and jury; mentor, friend, and coworker.

Accuser can be legitimate or not; they can have sufficient proof or not; they can want to press charges, or not.

Most sex abuse cases that were filed failed; the secular investigations with their eyes set on justice alone failed to provide sufficient evidence in many, many cases. I'd imagine the "sacred" investigations would do likewise. This is the reason I assume most settled their civil cases out of court (lower evidentiary standards notwithstanding) along with not wanting to suffer the publicity, and some just wanting the money or to spare the Church further embarrassment. I sympathize with the accusers; but just because there are 10 accusers that can't prove their case doesn't mean that the 11th, with a similar lack of evidence, must be guilty. Most of it is he said/he said, corroboration being opportunity, not even motive. Try a "where there's smoke, there's fire" argument in the courtroom and get past acquittals or accusations introduced as evidence and the ACLU would properly be up in arms.

The Catholic Church and public school system in New York have about the same rates of pedophilia (note: pedophilia implies pre-pubescent kids, a fraction of the total sex abuse cases alledged against priests). And they deal with it the same way: if media circus, then suspend the accused; else, monitor and investigate; if sufficient evidence, fire; if insufficient evidence, reinstate, unless media circus continues ... then laterally transfer, if possible, within the system. Moreover, the school system doesn't say "John Dewey died for our sins, so we must forgive those who repent" ... the Catholic Church has something called a savior. They don't report criminals who come in for confession; they forgive them. It's even worse when there's insufficient evidence ... do you trust a priest, or a 14-year-old kid? All this makes for a hefty conflict of interest added to a set of already large conflicts of interest. Is the church an Old Testament government, intent on punishment, or a New Testament ministry dealing in redemption? It's in a bind, being forced to be one, when its roots should be the other.

I'm not convinced all SNAPpers are actual victims; false memories are easy enough to evoke, real memories easy enough to suppress. I'm certainly not convinced all the priests are innocent. But I understand the church's PoV, as well as the alledged victims'. That puts me in a bind: it's not freeper black-and-white, a neat little chessboard with sharp borders and divisions between absolutes, the truth neatly laid out.

I personally don't think the church should have to turn over every allegation it receives as it receives it, but this opinion changes frequently. If the parents want to go to the police/DA, they can. At the same time, there's the admonition not to go to court with fellow-believers, but take it to the congregation/church (however you want that bit translated); I could see how parents would want not to drag the church into it, and how the church would have to teach "keep it in the family." I personally think (today, at least) the parents should go to court, to the DA.

I can see the problems on both sides, and the difficulties in either pursuing a secular solution or an ecclesiastical solution. But I can't jump on the "guilty unless proven innocent" bandwagon just because I think pedophilia and sex abuse is a very, very bad thing, and don't approve all of the Catholic Church's policies.
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