Why do you stay Catholic?

[eallen]

I understand that there are many liberal Catholics in the US, whose own political views on issues such as birth control, choice, and homosexuality put them at distinct odds with their church. They likely diverge also on less political issues, such as the ordination of women, the necessary pro-creative role of sex, and maybe even the belief that all of us non-believers are damned.

Here is what puzzles me about liberal Catholics: Why do you stay Catholic? Is it habit? Is it family? Do you have too many friends who are active in church organizations and activities? Or are you just waiting for the last straw that breaks the camel's back? Such as, perhaps, the election of Ratzinger?

In short, why not find a religion whose views actually align more with your own? I understand the Episcopal Church welcomes Catholics who want to take a step to the left. And if you decide to chuck the whole religion thing entirely, joining we secular folks, you get a lapel pin, a nifty decoder ring, and a discount to Penn & Teller's next show.

:hippie:

[HEyHEY]

1. Cause I don't wanna BURN IN HELL for eternity with the savages!

Well, actually, I'm not catholic, I don't know what came over me.

[dddem]

2. When you offer toaster ovens like the lesbians,

then maybe I'll consider it.
Seriously, funny you should ask. I've been thinking for quite some time about switching. One of the churches near me is part of the UCC, and I really like their philosophy. Plus I've heard the Pastor speak on occasion, and I really like him. I guess it's Catholic guilt that keeps me from making the break. Whoever thought Jewish Mothers invented guilt evidently never went to Catholic School!

[Arugula Latte]

34. Screw Catholic guilt

My Mom got over it in the 50s. You can too! :D

[southerntransplant]

3. What if you don't like Penn and Teller?

Is there a replacement membership gift? :-)

[CatholicEdHead]

4. That's how I grew up

under the late 70's early 80's church. It was much more open minded at that time.

It was in the same diocese of the late Bishop Raymond Lucker who moved towards change. Yet after he gave up his office, they replaced him with a repressive conservative.

[Nikki Stone 1]

50. I remember a much more liberal Catholic Church too

Seems like Vatican II is being reversed in so many ways.

[Speck Tater]

5. As a child, raised Catholic,

it was drummed in to me on a continuous basis that if I ever left the "one true Catholic and Apostolic Faith" I would burn in hell for all eternity. That's a hard indoctrination to recover from. Most Catholics were similarly brainwashed when they were young and are, frankly, scared to death to leave the church for fear of hellfire and damnation.

[eallen]

9. Do you really believe that?

[Liberalynn]

31. As A Catholic School Graduate

I can relate. 90 percent of brain that operates on logic, doesn't believe I'm going to hell. It doesn't even believe in hell. There's even about five percent of me that believes, hey if there is a Jesus, he died to save me, so I should go to heaven no matter what I do.

There is stil that scared little girl inside me that clings to the other five percent of my brain, however, who had that Catholic doctrine literally drilled and beaten into her, asking "but what if they were right?"

[Is It Fascism Yet]

59. Where is hell anyway? Was it in the ovens of the holocaust or is it now

in the halls of the Vatican?

[Liberalynn]

78. Hopefully Clarification

What I am saying and probably not very well is that at least for me the teachers at the Parachoial school where I went did such a stellar job of instilling the fear in me, that I can't shake it loose even though a large part of me accepts it is not logical.

In no way am I defending the Catholic Church here. In my view the institutions' support and defense of discrimination against women alone makes them indefensible for me, and I certainly am not going to defend the Institutions' turning away victims trying to escape the Holocaust like they did in WWII. That was only one of many reasons I did turn my back on the Church.

Yet I don't think non-Catholics or even ex- Catholics who for their own circumstances were able to walk with no regrets or fears can understand how hard it is to "just" let go of what is for many almost as much a part of your identity as being American.

I'm not saying it can't or shouldn't be done, simply because it is hard. I know it can be done. I walked away. I don't attend church, I don't send them money, etc. I guess all I am saying is I just know it is not always an easy thing to do.

Sometimes I think hell is here on earth because why is it so hard to live and let live? I don't have the answers.

Maybe it is like Socrates said "the wisest man is one who admits he knows nothing."

[calico1]

6. I was raised Catholic, and went to

Catholic school and all that. I am not really a practicing Catholic as I rarely go to Church. So since I am not a big church goer or anything like that, I really have no motivation to switch to another religion where I will probably not got to church either.

[Tweed]

Because the Son of God founded this religion

When you go to church, you don't have some guy who decided to be a preacher for the 4th Church of God or anything. You have a priest who is part of a tradition that traces its roots all the way to Jesus Christ. No other religion can do that.

[Kathryn7]

11. Amen!!!!

[Speck Tater]

13. The Mormon Church claims the same lineage,

A lot of Mormon missionaries can trace their linage all the back to some Old Testament patriarch.

Just because they make that claim doesn't mean it's true. It only means that you (like me) were brainwashed to believe that it is true.

[Tweed]

14. You are so 'enlightened'

:eyes:

You do realize the irony of you saying 'Just because they make that claim doesn't mean it's true', right? Think about that one, than get back to me.

[Speck Tater]

18. God Himself told me to say that,

That makes everything I say self-validating. Just like the Bible's claim to truth is that it claims it's true. It's all circular and it all means nothing.

[minerva50]

62. I think the Catholics have a bit more documentation than the Mormons

[bunkerbuster1]

66. Well, they're nuts, but what about the Middle Eastern and Greek

churchs, who certainly have just as valid a claim of going back to Christianity's origins?

Not trying to be a pain in the butt here, just want to point out that the Roman Catholic Church is just one of several very old denominations.

[minerva50]

72. I agree

Episcopalians can claim apostolic lineage as well. I'm an entirely lapsed Catholic. My mother, however, joined the Episcopalian church when the Catholic church's anti-women attitudes got too much for her. This a woman who went so far as to bear and raise 8 children in the church, going along with their birth control rulings.

My mom is quite resentful that she had to leave "her" church. There are strong family and social ties to a church you've grown up in. She thinks the church ought to belong to "We, the people of God," and not to the pope or the hierarchy.

[lastliberalintexas]

17. Well, every Christian church

can trace its roots back to Jesus. Are there other denominations you've considered?

[Tweed]

22. Yes, the Catholic Church is the church that focuses on what Jesus said

more than any other church. You go to a lot of churches and almost all of them might as well be a community center meeting. There's nothing holy about it. A lack of concentration on helping the poor is seen at many churches across this country. It's quite sickening actually. No wonder Protestants vote Republican 2-1.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

42. some aspects do, but Pope Ratzi condemns liberation theology

and supported dictatorships in central america that starved their citizens

no more church for me. i'll handle spiritual stuff on my own

[CTLawGuy]

43. Actually the

Evangelical Lutheran Church in America has the largest charitable giving of any church.



Also, how can you call the Pope the so-called "Holy Father" when God is the only Holy Father?

And where does the Bible say we should pray to Mary?

[phylny]

75. "And where does the Bible say we should pray to Mary?"

Amen! (No pun intended).

[readmoreoften]

69. Jesus said homosexuals are part of an ideology of evil?

I missed that part of the NT.

[regnaD kciN]

25. "No other religion can do that"

Bullshit.

The Orthodox can. Anglicans can. The "Old Catholics" (which, despite their name, are actually to the left of Rome -- they walked out when the Pope was declared "infallible") can.

But thanks for displaying the mindset that I predict will keep Roman Catholics sticking with "The One True Church"...no matter how far it regresses.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Arugula Latte]

36. Oh give me a break.

"Could you get more a joke religion?"

Could you get anymore self-righteous?

What a bunch of B.S. Because by a quirk of fate you happened to be born into Catholicism, you feel like you can get up on your high horse. What a joke.

Do you believe in burning bushes, people turning into salt, and the Earth being 6,000 years old? That's in the Bible. Infallible, eh? Tell that to Gallileo.

:puke:

[beam me up scottie]

39. Did you just call another religion a "joke"?

And then add "What a 'divinely inspired' religion"?

[DancingBear]

44. For those of you out there who didn't believe me

when I said (growing up in the Catholic Church) that we were told we were the one "true" religion and everyone else was just wrong, I refer you to the above post.

Thanks for confirming why I left.

[beam me up scottie]

53. Damn, I'm an atheist and I don't

even call anybody's religion a "joke".

A good post to bookmark indeed.

[cally]

28. I hope you realize that most Christians don't agree with you

Jesus did not found the Catholic faith. The Popes do not speak for Christ. Look towards the Eastern Catholic faiths. They trace their beliefs towards Jesus. Everything I've read implies that their rituals are closer to the early Christian faith. Explain to me why these faiths are less than the Roman Catholic one.

[efhmc]

46. There is absolutely no proof of that except for a

bunch of women hating men who took almost everything Christ taught and turned it to their advantage and said that they got their inspired info from Christ.

[Radical Activist]

52. If you trace apostolic succession

you'll find that the first Pope was trying to assert Papal authority over the entire church when John the apostle was still alive. They usurped authority. Leading the church was a political battle that could have been won by a Bishop of any city. You'll find nothing from Jesus or Peter to suggest that any local leader should lead the entire church, much less the local Bishop for the city of Rome.

You might read into Mormonism, which also claims to trace its apostolic authority directly to Jesus.

[annabanana]

70. Episcopalians are Apostolic and transubstantial too.

(did you know that?)

[alcuno]

7. To me, it's like being German and Polish.

That's the way I was born and raised. It's not unsimilar to a national identity; it would be like giving up citizenship.

[Reverend_Smitty]

10. exactly...

I'm an Irish Catholic...it's just part of who I am

[thoughtanarchist]

8. It won't wash off!

eom

[Arugula Latte]

37. "Out! Out! Damn spot!"

nt

[hippiegranny]

12. my partner is a recovered Catholic...

born in South America, brought up in Catholic schools, wore the little white confirmation dress, the whole nine yards. If she can walk away with zero superstition and guilt, I reckon most anybody can.

[Speck Tater]

16. There are no "recovered" Catholics. Only "recovering"

Catholics. It's like be an alcohalic. It's get so down deep in your bloodstream that you can never be completely cleansed of its poison. It's heavy duty brainwashing and indoctrination to the point where you fear leaving the church. As a child in in Catholic school I was told I would go to hell for singing "Away in the Manger" at Christmas, because it was written by that Blasphemous Heathen Martin Luther.

Having had enough of it, I walked out of Catholic school one day in fourth grade, in the middle of a class, and never went back. My folks enrolled me in public school and I became a Buddhist. Have been one ever since. But I still have Catholic nightmares once in a while.

[scarletwoman]

41. I beg to disagree, I am a very free and well "recovered Catholic".

Maybe time helps, it's been over 40 years since I walked away -- yet I can honestly say that I never suffered a moment's qualm once I made my decision. No nightmares for me, far from it. Once I rejected all the dogma, it was like a rebirth -- like the switch from black and white to color in the "Wizard of Oz" movie.

I revelled in the incredible beauty and intellectual stimulation of world mythology and comparative religion. My eyes were opened -- ALL spiritual traditions contain at their root the same truth -- like spokes of a wheel, many paths to the same center.

I made my peace with the Roman Catholic Church a very long time ago. I can find union with the Divine in any place. If I visit a Catholic church I light a candle at the Mary chapel, because for me She represents the memory of the time in human history when "God" meant the Great Mother.

I am a "pagan" (which really just means "country person"), an animist, a Buddhist, a secular humanist. Religion is a man-made illusion, a trap that forestalls true enlightenment. Yet, beauty and truth can be found everywhere, even in a church.

I have made my peace with my Catholic upbringing, I am even quite grateful for it -- the incense, the ritual, the Latin (ESPECIALLY the Latin! Fie on the English mass!).

Doctrine and dogma mean nothing, they are man-made constructs that veil Universal Truth. Conversely, the Universal Truth is always available everywhere, it's merely a matter of learning how to see it.

Lighting a candle in a Cathedral, or lighting a joss stick in a Buddhist temple -- it's all the same ritual representing the human yearning toward the Divine. It's all beautiful...

sw

[Is It Fascism Yet]

60. Me! Me! I am fully recovered, I swear it's true, have been off the

Catholic sauce and off of my knees for at least 25 years now. Fully, fully recovered.

[lastliberalintexas]

15. How did I miss out on the decoder ring?

:)

I was not raised Catholic, but I was interested in this thread anyway because I was raised Southern Baptist. At one time, the SBC was almost liberal, and was much more tolerant than the SBC of today. As with Catholicism, the theological foundation of the Baptist church is fairly liberal leaning, focusing on God's love for his children. That message has been perverted by those with a political agenda, however.

I stayed with my church for many years, even after almost 20 years of conservatives taking over the SBC, the pronouncements concerning women remaining obedient and subservient to the men, and the anti-choice and beginnings of anti-contraception ramblings of those in power. The Iraq invasion was the last straw for me, as the SBC was one of 2 supposed mainstream religious organizations to endorse our acts, and I left my church then.

So I'm always interested to see what it takes for others as well. Sorry for the intrusion, but it still felt on topic.

But I still want to know why I didn't get the decoder ring!

[alcuno]

21. Remember. Catholic mass rarely talks about all these issues.

It's the ritual, the reading of the Gospel, the Homily. But when you are sitting at mass week after week, it's always the same and it is outside of all this political talk.

The Homily is the interpretation of the Gospel and what it means. I see services on TV for other churches and they are talking about stuff that is happening in people's lives. IMO, that's not the Catholic Church I know.

All this talk outside the Church seems like white noise. I hear it, but it isn't what I hear when I'm actually at mass.

[eallen]

23. The baptists have a strong liberal tradition. But the Southern Baptists...

The Southern Baptist Convention split from the Triennial Baptist Convention in 1845, because they held to a more literal reading of the Bible, especially with regard to slavery, which clearly is approved in both the Old and New Testaments. Some of the other Baptists were preaching against slavery, and the new Southern Baptists couldn't sanction that kind of -- ahem -- liberalism being adjoined to their faith.

The decoder ring is a special for Catholics who leave on the heels of Ratzinger's election. ;)

[lastliberalintexas]

27. Well, yeah, of course the beginnings weren't

I certainly should have been clearer and said that I was speaking only of fairly recent times, as in the past 40 years or so. Even as late as the early 1980s the SBC was officially pro-choice until quickening, which is much more progressive than many other churches of the time.

And the SBC has certainly veered back to the right, and gets into spats with the ABA and the WBA all the time. Easy to see why I left, isn't it?


And that's just plain old discrimination! All of us defectors should get the double top secret decoder rings.

[Xithras]

19. It's part of our identity.

I was born a Catholic, raised a Catholic, and I've considered myself Catholic every day of my life. My ancestors have been exclusively Catholic for more than a millennia, and my children have been baptized in the church and are carrying on that tradition.

It's a part of who I am, and I could no more quit being a Catholic than a Jew could give up Judaism. For those who actually believe, it's an entire worldview, not just something to do on Sunday mornings. Leaving the church behind means abandoning some very fundamental beliefs about the way the world works.

[flyarm]

20. I HAVEN'T!! MY CHURCH AND GOD ARE IN MY HEART..NOT IN MAN!!

i walked out of the catholic church 12 years ago when our monsenior allowed a child abuser to give out the eucharist at the alter..i went out of the church that day screaming and yelling that they would all go to hell..and of course i knew this man was a child abuser..ass he was my neigbor who beat the ever loving crap out of his kids and wife..as it happened my husband had to pull this blastard off one of his kids in the driveway beating the crap out of this child with a tennis racket....while other men stood by and did nothing..and my husband took this man down with both fists flying...and i know this monsenior knew about the child abuse because it was me who told the monsenior that this man was turned in by the school and arrested!

so when this man was allowed to give out the eucharist at the alter..i decided it was time for someone to stand up and stop this abuse and the turning a blind eye in the catholic church..to put it mildly..i made a scene..the scene of a lifetime...

my hubby and son were a bit embarrassed..but they got over it..we were in the front pew as the monsenior asked my hubby to sit there to be a good example for the kids..as my hubby was somewhat a celebrity...so when i made my scene it was in front of the entire parish!!..and believe it or not..only 1 other woman got up and left..and i screamed...no child abuser belongs at the alter...and i went on and on and asked monsenior why he allowed this when he knew this man was a child abuser...
i will tell you..i was not in the least embarrassed..but when i finally walked down the isle yelling..most of the people looking at me seemed embarrassed " for" me..so then i yelled at them that they support child abuse if they sat there!!

like i said only one other woman got up and left..

of course my husband and son followed me...
my son said in the car ..he was embarrassed..and his dad and i explained it all at home...and now as an adult..my son wrote me a note for xmas last year..saying that made him the proudest he has ever been of me..that his mom stood up against the church and against child abuse..

the only time i have walked into a catholic church since was my mothers funeral..it was her choice so i did not make a scene..
today my god is with me in my prayers and heart, but not in a man made church! with man made rules.

fly

[bleedingheart]

67. You are my Hero!

[mmonk]

24. Growing up in the South

I decided what's the use (you really get the dark side of religion that way). I'm Catholic but somewhat agnostic. While I could go Orthodox or Episcopal, what's the use in changing? I guess I look at Protestantism and I say, which way? Pick one, choose one that fits your taste? It's not really that easy to explain. It's not for me to change the Church to fit my desires and it's my choice whether to listen or not.

[Bridget Burke]

61. A Southern upbringing does help one appreciate Catholicism.

In a semi-rural, mostly Fundamentalist community, the Mexican kids, a Cajun family & mine were pretty much the only Catholics. Our public school really was pretty religion-free (even in the 50's), but we knew we were different.

But, thanks to weekend classes & the Catholic Youth bookclub, I was connected to ancient times, the Middle Ages & the Renaissance. Later learning showed the Church's role problematic at times, but at least I had a beginning in understanding history.

My long absence from Church has more to do with lack of belief in a Supreme Being than quarrels with Church doctrine. But, if I still believed, I'd probably become a troublesome Catholic rather than switching.

[Liberalynn]

26. I Broke Away

but it is not easy. It is a lot of things. It's tradition, heritage, a sense of belonging. It's hard when your family still believes and having to tell your Mom your rejecting the faith she and your father gave you. My Mom is liberal in a lot of her viewpoint too but she just keeps telling me to be mad at the idiots running it not the Church or God.

But I can't seem to separate them. I can't accept the prejuidice, the judgementalness and the ignorance I see in so many religions, not just the Catholic one. I can't justify belonging anymore to an intolerant, bigoted institution to myself even for the sake of not disappointing my family.

Plus and other Catholics here, don't get mad at me because this is JMHO, but I think there is an element of "cultishness" almost "brainwashing" that goes with it too, at least there was in the way it was taught to me in the Catholic Grade School where I went. "You're going to burn in hell unless you do everything exactly the way Jesus and the Catholic Church tells you." Again I realize not all Catholics are taught that way but I was by the school I went to. It has taken me ten years of therapy to recover any sense of self worth and I am still not done yet, due to the number they did on me.

[mmonk]

29. Why did Jesus stay Jewish?

[begin_within]

33. Cause the potato latkes were to die for. Oops, sorry.

[beam me up scottie]

40. We can always use another

smart ass around here!

:evilgrin:

[begin_within]

32. They ran out of resignation applications.

[agincourt]

35. The church of my youth,

kept me catholic long after it became dead and conservative. I was raised in a Catholic school in the '60s and it was a more loving atmosphere than it is now. I didn't give up until the bishops started backing Bush.

[Liberalynn]

38. I went during the Sixties too

but the one where I went was definitely not "loving." They expected us to bascially apologize for breathing. There was no "sexual" abuse that I know of but there were bad beatings, luckily they only got me once.

I was five and had the gall to laugh when another boy made a goofy face. For which I received twelve bloody welts across my back with a ruler. It was a lay teacher who did the beating in this case but the Catholic Nun princple approved of her tactics.

After that I learned to bow my head, and say yes sister, no sister. Yes mam, no mam, but did I learn respect or love? No, I learned fear and a growing if squelched anger at the school, the church, my parents and even God.

[dddem]

45. I never personally got a beating

but I saw an incident or two. I think what really scarred me was the fact that as a kid I couldn't even go home and complain about normal bitchy teacher stuff because "they work for God, and everything they do is right and holy". I think I'll be okay though, because recently I had to laugh at my mother when she went on about the priest (it didn't matter what was wrong in your life, mom's answer was "talk to a priest") and it occurred to me how silly it all was. I asked my mom, "you don't really think God is a catholic, do you?". She was actually kind of stymied for a minute, and couldn't quote something from her catechism. It was only a brief moment of clarity, but it was sweet, none-the-less.

[Tippy]

48. I went to Catholic School for 12 years

And never once saw or heard of any abuse of any kind...durring the eighth grade we had the Principle as our Teacher Her name was Sister Michele one of the boys in class was a trouble maker,he had her in tears more than once, but she never punished him physicaly...So I wonder where do all these stories of abuse come from...Was our school and teachers just different...

[Liberalynn]

56. One of the Therapists

told me that there were efforts to "reform" during the sixites but perhaps since I lived in a more rural parrish in Upstate NY the word might have taken awhile to reach there or the people in our Parrish simply rejected it, who knows. It might have been my school that was the exception and not the rule. I can't say.

I have seen that book "You Know You Survived Catholic School When?" and then what has been on the news, so I do believe that I was not alone in suffering the abuse either though. I also believe some others went through far worse abuse than I. Mine was small in comparison even to some of the beatings I saw in my own school. One lay teacher slammed a boys' head into the blackboard and he had to go to the hospital.

I think a lot also depends on what order of nuns ran the school and their practices, when you went, the community you grew up in-as to what they would tolerate and wouldn't, etc.

From my point of view the ones that ran my school were the Chruch in my eyes for all those years of growing up and all they ever did was cause pain and fear in me. Maybe it isn't logical or fair to hold it against the church as a whole but I just can't find comfort in religion because of it. I also disagree with so many of their current teachings as well because I feel they are still hurtful especially in regards to women.

[phylny]

77. My dad is a life-long Catholic, and will be a Catholic until

the day he dies.

However, he has ceased financial support of his parish because of the priests' homilies urging voters to vote for Bush and his pro-life cronies and because of the Church's attempts to hide the child-abuse scandal instead of confronting it openly, and offering support and action to the victims.

[ScreamingMeemie]

47. Why does it matter to you? Liberal Catholics are on your side, they're

voting with you, not against you. Why care so very awful much? :shrug:

[beam me up scottie]

49. No actually I have wanted to ask that question too.

Not in a disrespectful way, of course, but as another woman who wants to know why so many of her strong, capable and independent sisters stick with the church. I really would like to hear from you.

[ScreamingMeemie]

51. I didn't stick with the Church. I left mid homily, the day they told me

to vote against my brothers and sisters by approving Prop 2 (the marriage ammendment). Other than that, It's not really my business why people stay with their Faith. It's kind of like asking "Why do you smoke when you know it's bad for you" in my opinion. They vote with us, so I'm okay with them, without needing to delve into their personal belief system...or lack thereof for that matter. :hi:

[beam me up scottie]

54. Sorry if it's too personal.

It's just that I have several catholic friends that left once they realized that as women, they had no standing in the church. Their intelligence as well as their opinions were to be "checked at the door". One didn't see any point to staying as long as she was going to practice birth control and engage in premarital sex, along with other sins. She didn't have room in her life for the guilt, I think.

[eallen]

55. "Why do you smoke?" also seems a legitimate question to me.

There are different answers to that, though the physical pleasure or addiction to nicotene is a common theme.

Even if we focus solely on the political question of how people vote, that leads to the related question of why they vote the way they do. Alas, given today's political environment, that tends to spill over into religious issues.

[ScreamingMeemie]

57. I guess what I am trying to say bluntly, is that it's no one's business

but theirs. :hi:

[eallen]

65. I agree. But thank those who volunteered, anyway.

No one should feel prodded to contribute to a public discussion such as this, even if the question is one that applies to them. Each individual has the right to keep their reasons private. My asking the question, publicly, in no way obligates them to make their reasons public. Nor, I hope, did I imply that it did.

At the same time, I'm glad for those in this thread who did so. I found the range of positions quite informative.

It's how we learn about other people, no?

[readmoreoften]

71. Because liberal catholics are not abandoning an institution

that tells 1 Billion people that birth control is wrong, that condoms cause AIDS, and that homosexuals are a part of the ideology of evil.

Regardless of how you vote politically, your tithe to the organization is another kind of voting.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

58. I don't (stay Catholic) anymore. Fully recovered now. N/T

[bklyncowgirl]

63. I've been a refugee Catholic for over thirty years.

I left I believe that their opposition to birth control in all forms is not only short sighted but in the end immoral.

There are many good things about the Catholic church, the doctrine of Just War for example provides a moral platform on which to judge whether or not to support your government when it goes to war--I don't hate it as some here do--my attitude is more one of sadness. I'd like to be a Catholic again but I can't.

So, here I am, refugee Catholic, and likely to stay that way.

[goddess40]

64. Catholic no more

Goddess40's mom here. I went through 8 years of Catholic grade school, 4 years of Catholic high school and 3 years at a Catholic school of nursing. I left the church when I was in my 30's because of their treatment of women and their refusal to approve contraception. Women have no say in the running of the church but they do all the work. I can't for the life of me understand how any woman can be Catholic.

[bleedingheart]

68. There is a "aura" about the Church of Rome

having been raised as a Catholic, by parents who were not all that religious, I have to say that part of it is some instinctive draw towards the mystery and ritual. Some of it is due in part to the fact that a few years of CCD and the "catholic" things we were taught made us feel special and a bit different...

I am very liberal, and I disagree with the church on many issues but for some reason I have had a hard time giving up my religon.

I really can't explain it.

I have joked with friends that I find myself more drawn to worshipping Mary...and since I have immense respect and awe for nature I find myself more of a Wiccan Catholic if that can be the case...

[Chovexani]

76. I know loads of Pagan ex-Catholics

I'd have to say half the folks in the teaching grove I was in years ago were recovering Catholics.

Paganism = All the mystery and ritual, none of the dogma and guilt!

[gauguin57]

73. Long Lapsed, and LOVIN' IT!

I wouldn't set foot in that misogynistic, homophobic, repressive, backward, medieval, corrupt, greedy institution again if my life depended on it (except for my relatives' funerals).

The last time I had to deal with those effers was when my loyal-Catholic mother died ... The priest was such an ASSHOLE while we were trying to plan the funeral (lecturing us about having left the Catholic church -- "Didn't your mother pray with you at home? What didn't she do that made you leave the church?") that I just wanted to punch him in the face. He pissed me off so much I was bawling in his office, and he didn't even offer me comfort (or a Kleenex).

My mother had contributed to that particular parish for more than 50 years -- financially and otherwise -- and even brought meals to the priests. And yet they managed to get her name wrong both at her last rites and at her funeral. And the priest made a snotty comment TO THE CONGREGATION, DURING MY MOTHER'S FUNERAL, about how she should have done more to keep her kids in the church.

I really wanted to tell him to burn in hell.

But then again, my mother was a mere woman, and the Catholic Church doesn't give two shits about women. They worship Mary, and then treat women as second-class citizens.

Oh yeah, and at my GRANDMOTHER's funeral, a different priest gave a couple of my relatives shit right in the middle of communion, because he doubted my niece was old enough to get communion. ASSHOLES!

[DemonFighterLives]

74. Interesting Thread

I grew up Lutheran and have nothing against the Catholics. In other words, I'm not here to bash them.
After the fairy tale wedding of Prince Charles and the whole royalty thing in England. And now this whole todo with the Pope. I don't get the hierarchy thing. I don't get praying to Mary either.
The whole child abuse thing is a shame and why can't the priests get married. If I were Catholic, I think I would be picking and choosing too much that I would consider another religion.

We had a Missouri Synod minister that was so strict that the Ladies Aid women were talking. Ladies could hold no position in the church. My brother had to get married on the deck on the farm because a child was conceived out of wedlock. That was a little rediculous. Poor Bro went along, but the marriage never lasted anyway.

Who knows what's right?

[adwon]

79. Why leave?

All that follows is my opinion, not holy writ.

Anyone who's part of a church for the politics is just missing the point. While politics is inseparable from every human activity, it doesn't mean that politics is necessarily central to every human activity.

I see no point in leaving the church. I have a suspicion that the church is usually right and I'm probably wrong in what I think. So what? I enjoy the tension between religion and secular politics. I wouldn't want to join some other church where my political beliefs were held up as holy writ. What good would that do me? The essence of religion is conforming yourself to right, not dogma to your beliefs. The real test is not in affirmation, but in struggle...the struggle to work out the details of a theology that is necessarily broad brush.

Beyond that, and I suspect is true for most Catholics, asking any of us to give up the church is like asking someone to give up their family. Loyalty runs deep. That doesn't mean it can't be exhausted, but most Catholics are much more likely to die before that point.

P.S. Once again, just my opinion.