A lapsed Catholic's view of the new pope

[Stinky The Clown]

I grew up Roman Catholic in an immigrant Italian family in an immigrant Italian community. We went to Mass every Sunday, did the Stations of the Cross in Lent, midnight Mass on Christmas and sunrise Mass on Easter. I went to Catholic school and, as a teenager, worked at the church on volunteer events like paper drives. I was appropriately pious and, in general, a good Catholic.

When reason entered my life, my Catholicism waned. I disagree with the Church on many matters ..... birth control, choice, married clergy, women clergy .... and on and on.

Pope Benedetto XVI promises to be a hard liner on matters of faith and Church dogma. So my reason - and reasons for not considering myself Catholic - remains valid. That said, I am not without faith. I actually still, if pressed, consider myself a Catholic. One who remains at odds with the **earthly** teachings of the Church. On the God and Jesus and Mary and Joseph and Matthew and Mark and Luke and John issues ..... I'm still who I always was. What's gone is a place to go to celebrate these beliefs with others.

All that is background ... just to let you know where I'm coming from.

I see the possibility of this pope being much like the last one as the highest likelihood. And that's not all that bad, really. While on the matters with which I break faith remain, and continue to keep me apart from my religious roots, I suspect I'll continue to agree with this new pope, as I did with the last one, regarding worldly and secular matters. The Roman Catholic Church is 2000 years old. What is happening in the world today is but a blip when you're that old. And while we look to that Church for some moderating influence (a counter to our current regime, for example) their focus is, I suspect, much more universal. The preservation of the faithful, the faith, and the church is foremost for them. And at its core, the Catholic Church, like the Jewish faith, the Muslim faith, the various Protestant sects, is humanist. We may agree or disagree on various issues, but none of them, espouse war, aggression, abandoning people, and so forth. In this larger milieu, matters like abortion, women in the clergy, and so forth, are, relatively, minor.

So all in all, I see the new pope as being as stabilizing as the last one ... and probably the next one will be similar as well.

An Angelo Giuseppe Roncalli - Pope John XXIII - is a rare pope. I'd love to see a really caring man like that .... and maybe next time we will. For that I will pray.

[fedupinBushcountry]

1. Agree

I went to Catholic school for 12 years, my Aunt was a nun, and I am a lapsed Catholic. I too wish we had another Popr John XXIII.

[Grins]

2. So true.

Same for me. Jesuit educated, no regrets, but I'm lapsed for the same reasons.

[Cleita]

3. I think the church has sounded its own death knell.

This guy might die pretty soon though at his age, but I don't know if that means they will elect someone more progressive. I doubt it. The conservatives have taken over the church as well as our country.

[Stinky The Clown]

5. I actually don't think so

American Catholics are among the most liberal in the world. The rank and file faithful across the rest of the world tend to be somewhat more to a whole lot more conservative. A conservative pope meets their needs and desires in matters of faith.

All that being said, it is really inaccurate to compare a "conservative" pope to the "conservative" regime that has taken over our country. The fundamental difference is the Catholic religion, like all religions (our US fundies are not a religion ... they're an extreme cabal at the fringe of Protestantism and Catholicism, much as the radical Muslims are not at all representative of all Muslims) actually do want to follow the word of God ... and care for their faithful and the larger human community. The "conservatives that have stolen our country are no more "religious" than Lucifer. Their goal is entirely self-interested. Any true religion's goal is the interest of people. Often misguided, but essentially humanist.

[merci_me]

7. I agree with you, Cleita.....

My history pretty much follows Hubs2sparkly, but my view of the future of the Church, not so much. I don't see this as a blip in the history of the Church. I see it as the opening pharagraph of the final chapter.

I'm appalled by the connection to Opus Dei (Santorum/Robert Novak) and IF there is another pope, saying he may be less conservative isn't saying much.

Mary

[Stinky The Clown]

9. Opus Dei

I heard a Catholic priest speaking to a local radio reporter about the new pope today. Just an ordinary, garden variety parish priest. I found his comment interesting .... grossly paraphrased here ......

"I think more of the ordinary (interesting choice of word, that) American clergy had hoped for a more liberal pope, but I can see why they chose Cardinal Ratzinger ........ " He went on to explain how he thinks most ordinary (there's that word again) priests would have wanted a man who was more in touch with the deeper feelings of American Catholics.

Opus Dei has been around a long time. I recall back to the time we went from the Latin Mass to the Vernacular Mass. I grew up in Bridgeport, CT. Right after the change, several local priests literally broke away from the church and established their own churches and said the Mass in Latin. They ended up excommunicated .... after a long period of negiotiations .... years of it. Along the way, they got a bishop to join them. That was the final straw for the church, since a bishop has the autority to ordain new priests.

They were Opus Dei. They went too far and fell out of favor ... with the community and with the church. I suspect, even today and even with this pope's (possible? proven?) ties to Opus Dei, they will not take the church too far to the right. Rank and file Catholics just aren't there.

[merci_me]

10. I don't know about that Hubs

there use to be a lot more "rank and file" Catholics and they are falling like autumn leaves. For me, it was the VietNam war that was the straw that finally broke the camel's back.

In passing years, I watched my father (former alter boy who considered the priesthood) and my mother and others, become much less "devout" and it was almost like Mass was a habit to continue as much for the breakfast after, rather than the sermon.

There was a time when parishioners' money talked, but Opus Dei doesn't need those small potatoes. Look at their groups around the world. Here in Houston, there are several small groups, yet there assets pretty much range at about $1MM each. Look at their real estate holdings. The more they own and the fewer followers they may be obligated to minister to, the better.

I think Opus Dei will be the end. Now they have the pope. I'll just watch and treasure the memories of some wonderfully dedicated nuns, women who aren't "fit" to be priests, who taught us about a loving God and who are with Him now. The Church and I left each other a longtime ago, but those memories never left and I guess I was naive enough to think someday..........well, that ended today. I guess it just sort of went up in smoke.

Mary

[Stinky The Clown]

11. I miss it too, Mary ......

I recall those days fondly and warmly. :hug:

As I type this, I'm listening to the local teevee news here in Baltimore (oldest diocese in the US, if I recall correctly). Benedetto XVI is playing to a decidedly mixed review from "man on the street" Catholics. Many are saying they're thrilled to have him. Others are also thrilled to have a new pope, but wished for a more liberal one.

I understand and mostly agree with you, Mary. But for some reason, I'm just not quite as pessimistic.

[customerserviceguy]

4. I'll admit I was riveted to the TV during the drama

but I'm SOOO glad I left the catholic church two decades ago. Being able to think for myself has made a lot of difference in my life.

Here's hoping that those who were pining for a "liberal" pope realize that it ain't gonna happen, and they should just practice morals rather than religion...

[Stinky The Clown]

6. I agree ..... I am much more at a place of personal peace

I know deep down that I'm a good person - and, indeed, a spiritual person. No one else's opinion really matters.

[Spazito]

8. I, too, was baptized as a Catholic, received Confirmation,,,

and attended Mass on a regular basis. I attended Catholic school for all but two years of my school years and even was in attendance in a convent, my wish, for a period of time.

I started walking away from the church when I saw what the church had done to First Nations children in residential schools. It was appalling. After being torn from their parent's arms, they were put into places that resembled, at best, orphanages, at worst, jails. The children were severely disciplined if they dared to speak their own language, they were physically, emotionally, psychologically and sexually abused and the Catholic church not only covered it up but, when it was made public, fought in the courts to stop any attempt to hold them accountable.

The Catholic church left me when it was found that priests were sexually abusing both boys and girls and, again, when it was found out, fought and are still fighting in the courts against being held accountable.

With regard to the new Pope, it is no surprise to me, it fits with the total separation of the Catholic church from the true teachings of Jesus and it's continued accumulation of wealth as it's priority.