Bob Jones would approve of DU this day.

[patcox2]

This place reads like some kind of BJU site.

It must be nice to share so many beleifs with Bob Jones.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. Kick ass!

When did Bob Jones start having contempt for uber conservatives?

[bushisanidiot]

2. what the hell are you talking about?

that's a pretty vague statement.

[bloom]

5. he's probably talking about anti-Catholocism...eom

[mapatriot]

7. Benedict XVI

I think it's a pretty intuitive statement. As someone who believes about 90% of what what we interchange here at DU, I am shocked to read the level of intolerance and anti-catholcism. I'm feeling very uncomfortable here.

[bushisanidiot]

14. So if we make fun of President AWOL does that make us anti-american?

so the hell what if some DU'ers don't like the pick for pope. it's their right to give their opinion.

Jesus was a liberal. The last pope was far from one in many horrible ways. That's my opinion and I'm not anti-christian or anti-catholic for saying it.

[Dave Sund]

18. Damn right!

I'm a Catholic, and an American, and I won't let anyone else say otherwise. Ratzinger's a terrible choice for Pope. And that's not anti-Catholicism, and what's more you know it. This is nothing more than flamebait.

[trotsky]

38. Thank you, Dave, for weighing in.

Your opinion as a Catholic is valued.

[customerserviceguy]

22. There's anti-Catholocism and then there's anti-Catholic people

There's a difference between calling a bunch of octegenarian celibates "out of touch with the real world" and discriminating against Catholic people. Bob Jones was happy to do both. Nobody here would countenance forbidding a Catholic his or her basic civil rights.

Learn to appreciate the difference, and you'll feel comfortable again. I'm a recovered Catholic, and I feel fine with the way the discussion has been taking place. Over at FReepug, there are usually-anti-Catholics who are being nicey-nicey to their fellow posters who are Catholic, just so they can suck them into their own branches of misogyistic Christianity. Next week, they'll go back to saying that Catholics are going to Hell because they pray to holy cards. You want to feel uncomfortable? Go to Free Republic next week.

[beam me up scottie]

3. .

:nopity:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. I usually appreciate your well reasoned posts even if I disagree

But criticism of a man chosen as a spiritual leader of one sixth of the planet is warranted in some instances, no?

Please read the threads a bit more closely...there's even some unhappiness in the Catholic forum..OK?

[patcox2]

17. I can't stand Ratzinger, and I am not a catholic.

Its the idiocy I am offended by.

First of all, a "conservative" in the vatican is not the same as a political conservative. They use the same term, does not mean the same thing. Yet people see that he is described as a conservative Cardinal, so they make the jump that he is a "right winger."

I would bet that outside of the issue of faith and sexual behavior, there is not one position ratzinger holds on the issue of social justice that anyone would call conservative.

Where was he on the war? What does he say about the death penalty? What about taxes, welfare programs? Does anyone even know that the church openly calls on governments to enact welfare programs and tax the wealthy to care for the poor?

But its like a frenzy, based on the fact that he is german (the idea that any member of the hitler youth or the wermacht at that time was automatically a nazi is just dumb) and with no credit given for risking death to desert the german army at the fucking age of 17.

And like I said, I can't stand him, and I am not a catholic. But this bashing, this gleeful calling of names, its just bad. Why the fuck does anyone care?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

20. I agree with that. But there are just as many of us not calling him names.

I'm taking a wait and see position, but as a gay person, I'm not likely to tolerate much more "hate speech" directed at me from people's spiritual leaders.

Frankly, I think there's a lot of hate speech and bigotry tolerated here in the name of consensus...it ain't just with popes.

[Dave Sund]

21. Wait, you have the nerve to call it anti-Catholic?

Many of these statements are coming from Catholics, and you're not even a Catholic yourself?

Have you even read about this person? He's a member of Opus Dei. If you're not familiar with them, they are an extreme fundamentalist group within the Roman Catholic Church.

This man does NOT represent Catholics. And to suggest that bashing him is anti-Catholicism is woefully ignorant of who this person actually is.

[lastliberalintexas]

34. He opposes liberal economic policy

He has vehemently decried the "Marxist" economy of Europe. His words, not mine.

I'd say that sounds pretty right wing, even if you *don't* look at his views on abortion, contraception, ordination of women, gay rights, power to the laity...


I've not called him a Nazi because I can appreciate that he was in a tight position as a child. Even though many of my German relatives did oppose them, and most never would return to Germany after they were fortunate enough to get out. However, I don't want 14 year olds judged as adults, either in this case or in the AMerican criminal justice system.

I can demand, though, that he decry the fascist regimes of yesterday and today as an adult- something I've not seen him do. Instead, he has deliberately chosen to focus his energies, and those of the Church, on the leftist "Marxist" ideologies with much zeal. And his actions of today do tell me that his heart *might* have been more with the Nazis than most are willing to admit, even if he was conscripted into service.

[lastliberalintexas]

28. He's not *just* a religious leader

The Vatican has a seat at the UN, even if not one with as much voice as the US. The RCC has used its statehood status to fight any kind of treaty or agreement which promotes, encourages or even dares to mention contraception as a means of dealing with overpopulation. Ratzinger has turned the focus of the Church from things such as the Iraq War and the death penalty to the more RW views on abortions, gays, socialism/communism and leftist economic ideologies. The Vatican, basically under the guidance of Ratzinger during Pope John Paul's failing heath, has opposed leftist leaders throughout Africa and South America, and instead supported right wing totalitarian regimes which often brutalized their peoples.

Ratzinger is now a *head of state*, and people upset with criticism of him are going to have learn to deal with it. Just as we Americans deal with criticism of Bush. Anti-Bush does not mean anti-American, any more than anti-Ratzinger equates to being anti-Catholic.


:hi:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

31. I honestly didn't know that

I mean I knew they used the pulpit for it, but never knew they could block it at the level of the UN...*doh*

[seabeyond]

6. oh what the catholic religion is doing

and it is everyone elses fault. when will the catholics own what is happening to their religion and do something about it themselves. cause i, the outsider, certainly cannot do a thing. it is only those inside the religion that can fix it

the catholics are clever, they knew what this would do in appearance, and yet they still chose this.

[mapatriot]

10. Benedict XVI

You're assuming that all liberal catholics will not follow this Pope. That's an incorrect assumption.

[seabeyond]

12. no i am not assuming. i am thinking they will follow the pope

i am seeing it today. with the pope of yesterday. so if people really start not liking yawl, well, your creation. but to want to force me to follow your little rules, when i dont belong to your church is b.s. i will be pissed. dont whine if people bitch about it. your religion is infringing on me. i am asking nothing of you, do your religion, to your hearts content, but leave me out. your religion is chosing to make me participate

[mapatriot]

24. Whaaaat????

I think I've made it pretty clear, in all my posts, that I strongly believe that my religion needs to stay out of government and the lives of anyone who chooses not to participate. Nobody in the catholic church wants you or anyone else to "follow (our) little rules". Please, do as you wish. Be pissed at the bushies and leave the catholics alone.

[comsymp]

32. "Nobody in the Catholic Church...

wants you or anyone else to "follow (our) little rules".


That isn't entirely accurate, now is it?

F'rinstance, a couple recent stories...

The Republican dominated House passed the measure as dozens of Catholics looked on from the gallery. The Michigan Catholic Conference, which pushed for the bills, hosted a legislative day for Catholics on Wednesday at the state Capitol.
Conscientious Objector Policy Act

And they're having fun teaming up with the Fundy Pharmacists, too:
While supportive of the new bill, the South Dakota Catholic Advocate Network (CAN) is fighting to see abortion outlawed completely.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=3459">I could go on...


ON EDIT: ctfs

[seabeyond]

41. i have a catholic camp of males coming to amarillo par

to the shiavo to do. an attack on our city. i will let you know how much the catholics stay out of our law.

but htis is exactly my point of catholic religion coming into our law

[comsymp]

8. Have you considered

taking a step back, deep breath, or maybe just a break for a while? Judging from your personal attacks on posters in at least one other thread, maybe you're taking this business a little too personally.

[blm]

9. I dislike Ratzinger BECAUSE he shares the authoritarianism of Bob Jones

and the same political philosophies that enable fascism.

Bob Jones may hate Catholics but he LOVES fascist authoritarianism just like Ratzinger.

They both have the same goal of being the leader of those saved at the End Times.

I despise their shared goals.

[Bridget Burke]

11. He's not the only one.....

http://www.ianpaisley.org/main.asp

Yes, there's reason for serious reservations about Ratzinger. But lots of DU'ers were raised to hate Catholics & will never change.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

13. Bob Jones and the Pope believe the same stuff, just a different title.

[Q]

15. Nah...he would hate...

...the free speech and independent thought.

[roguevalley]

16. What Ratzinger believes and does is going to affect all of us,

not just Catholics. His comments about communion helped sink Kerry. That makes him fair game. The church will survive anything. Maybe. But Ratzinger deserves to be perferated by the disdain of millions.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dave Sund]

23. Well, the comments WERE used by US Bishops

To actively tell their congregation to not vote for Kerry.

[mapatriot]

26. Bishops are human

and entitled to moronic stands just like the rest of us. Voting against Kerry was a matter of civic preference and not faith and morals. Any Bishop who suggested otherwise was not speaking for the church (or articulating catholic doctrine).

[catastrophicsuccess]

33. Umm Rat wrote the dam memo

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22028-2005Apr2.html

"He wrote a letter of advice to U.S. bishops on denying communion to politicians who support abortion rights, which some observers viewed as a slam at Democratic presidential candidate John F. Kerry."

[bertha katzenengel]

25. Scary, isn't it.

:eyes:

[varun]

27. Even "Good Catholic Boy"

Andrew Sullivan is unhappy:

www.andrewsullivan.com

STILL IN SHOCK: Thanks for your emails both sympathizing and telling me to leave the Church entirely. But I am still in shock. This was not an act of continuity. There is simply no other figure more extreme than the new Pope on the issues that divide the Church. No one. He raised the stakes even further by his extraordinarily bold homily at the beginning of the conclave, where he all but declared a war on modernity, liberalism (meaning modern liberal democracy of all stripes) and freedom of thought and conscience....

[roguevalley]

29. Poor Andrew. He's not being nice to the new pope. Bad Andrew.

[roguevalley]

30. Here is something from www.americablog.org on this guy:

Gee, this sounds like pure Senator Cornyn talking about the judges.

Sure, violence is wrong, but fags shouldn't be surprised when their own existence invites violence. Spoken like a true former member of the Hitler Youth. Links here and here.

‘It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the church’s pastors wherever it occurs. It reveals a kind of disregard for others which endangers the most fundamental principles of a healthy society. The intrinsic dignity of each person must always be respected in word, in action and in law.

‘But the proper reaction to crimes committed against homosexual persons should not be to claim that the homosexual condition is not disordered. When such a claim is made and when homosexual activity is consequently condoned, or when civil legislation is introduced to protect behavior to which no one has any conceivable right, neither the church nor society at large should be surprised when other distorted notions and practices gain ground, and irrational and violent reactions increase (No. 10).

8. "What is at all costs to be avoided is the unfounded and demeaning assumption that the sexual behavior of homosexual persons is always and totally compulsive and therefore inculpable. What is essential is that the fundamental liberty which characterizes the human person and gives him his dignity be recognized as belonging to the homosexual person as well’ (No. 11).

So, basically, he accepts violence against gays. What a good Christian man he is.


www.americablog.org

[Bluebear]

36. What a healing sentiment, Pope Benedict XVI

:puke:

[Bluebear]

35. Would Bob Jones approve of this Pope?

I just arrived but I think Jones has more in common with this Pope than with DU. Just sayin'.

[beam me up scottie]

39. Why Bluebear

didn't you know that a lot of du'ers were raised to hate catholics?
I swear I learn something new here every day.

[Dookus]

37. Bob Jones

doesn't like Catholics on theological grounds.

Here, we are opposing an arch-conservative Pope on political grounds. Very different. But nice try.

[mitchtv]

40. Awwww Dry up

we don't like the cardinal's choic. No one has been trashing catholics