GWBush: "I am going to tell them they are all going to hell."

[patcox2]

Thats what W said just before he travelled to Israel when he was governor of Texas, his only trip out of the US in his life, before he became president.

He was bording the plane, and a reporter asked him whether he had any message he was bringing to the Israelis. He said "I am going to tell them they are all going to hell." Because they were jews, you see.

Now, on to the real point. All religions believe they are right, and the majority of religions on earth believe they are the only ones who are right.

Those who are tearing their hair out because the Pope of the catholic church said that the RC church is the only route to salvation (I am shocked, shocked, I tell you, that the Pope would say such a thing about catholicism), I hope you are all researching and fulminating and whipping yourselves into a happy rage or righteous frenzy by learning about all the other religious leaders who have said similar things. Hmm, how many are their?

Or is it just catholics who are evil?

[quinnox]

1. It is amusing

Oh, OH, the new Pope believes in his religion and thinks everyone who isn't Catholic is going to hell!

This is news?? Only to the naive!

[Eloriel]

38. That's a rationalization, AFAIC

We all know that "most" religions (but not the GREAT religions, the Eastern ones) believe and teach that exclusivity, but the GREAT religions teach that's nonsense, and harmful nonsense at that.

And just because you believe something that's inherently and unavoidably insulting to those who don't believe it (esp. since it's negative ABOUT those who don't believe it), doesn't mean you have to rub those people's noses in it. In fact, rubbing their noses in it It's arrogant, it's offensive.

This pope has a reputation as a bit of a thug and fascist and he's apparently eager to live up to it. Just like George W. Bush and a bunch of other thugs and fascists the world is saddled with right now.

Edit: Let me say a little bit about why it's harmful. Beyond annoying and alienating the people you purport to be trying to win over, it also gives adherents permission to feel superior to non-Catholics, and THAT gives adherents permission to ACT on their superiority. Sooner or later you've got wars of one type or another, thanks to the Catholic Church. (I'm not blaming ALL wars on the Catholic Church, just the ones it's specifically responsible for.)

[coloradodem2005]

2. What an asshole.

[tinonedown]

3. Link to reporter who supports this

Or is it 'something you heard'?

[JohnnyCougar]

18. I second that notion.

I'm not doubting the OP, but I would like to see a source on that so I can feel comfortable spreading that quote around.

[wtmusic]

4. That's the problem with all religion

when you get right down to it, it's just another exclusive club. Why should anyone need to worship together? It's a money scam.

[flamin lib]

5. Conversation with my neighbor who is a sheite baptist . . .

He: If you are wrong would you want to be told?

Me: I could ask the same question, would you want me to tell you?

He: I'm not wrong.

Me: That's what the men who flew airplanes into the Trade Center thought.

He: Yeah, but they were wrong.

[FreedomAngel82]

8. What a moron

Ignorant fool.

[flamin lib]

11. Ignorant maybe, but fool? No.

It is the nature of religion to be "right". If there is only one "truth" all others must be lies.

What makes 'em crazy is when you tell them that faith is belief in the face of doubt and what they have is not faith but conviction.

[smirkymonkey]

40. There is one truth....

but all religions are lies.

[in_cog_ni_to]

6. No one has said Catholics are evil. They have said NAZIs are evil

and they are right. Just so happens the new Pope is a Nazi.

[patcox2]

14. No, you are assuming he is, against all evidence.

All that youj know is that he joined the hitler youth when it was mandatory to do so, at the age of 14, and that he was drafted into the german army (which is not the nazi party.) You also know that he deserted the german army a year after he was drafted, almost a year before the war ended. Desertion being a crime punishable by death, and he was 17 when he felt strongly enough about not being in the german army, yet to you, this means he is a nazi.

Some point out that he must be a nazi because he never publicly renounced his nazism. Of course, that presumes he was a nazi, doesn't it? What if he never embraced it, that would be a reason not to renounce it, wouldn't it?

You do know he was very very close to JPII, right? Do you have any idea how strongly the Poles remember the nazi occupation, the nazis were brutal to the poles. Now why would JPII make an unrepentant nazi his prime confidante? Hey, maybe, in a rational world, its because he wasn't an unrepentant nazi. Of course, in your bizarro-world there is probably a more interesting explanation that makes bizarr0-sense.

But its not really about sense, is it? Its about grasping at any straw that supports catholic-bashing.

But of course, you apparently know nothing and don't realize that not all germans were nazis, not even the ones who were drafted into the army.

[in_cog_ni_to]

17. He's also a Pedophile. How can you defend that? Just asking. n/t

[flamin lib]

28. A story you might find interesting.

Growing up in small town S Texas a woman at the local cafe had a tattoo on her forearm. The story was that as a very young girl she was in one of the Jewish death camps. A German guard took interest in her and her mother and always found ways to put them at the back of the line or shuffle them to another billet when it was time for the gas chambers. He managed to get them extra food and such to keep them healthy. It went on for years.

Finally the camp was liberated and they had the chance to speak to him openly. They asked, "Why us? Why did you save us?"

The answer surely grants the man a place in eternity.

"Because I could not save them all."

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

7. Oh, another "persecuted Christian", eh?

Save your act.

[IrateCitizen]

12. Sure are reading a lot into that post that isn't there, aren't you?

I think the point is that ALL major religions seem to preach that THEY are the only true path to "salvation", so expressing shock over the fact that the new Pope said that RC is the only "true" path is a silly and pointless exercise.

I see nothing promoting any particular religion, or lack thereof, in any of it.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

16. It's not so much an expression of shock though

as it is an expression of "oh good, another one who thinks everyone that disagrees with him is going to Hell" (aka, fascist).

Promotion is one thing. Enforcement, if you will, is entirely another.

On edit: I'm referring the last line about catholics being evil. If being a pompous asshole makes one evil, then every person who utters a line like that, regardless of what religion they are from, is evil.

[Eloriel]

41. No, not ALL major religions -- the Eastern ones do NOT teach that

They actually KNOW better. They know that all roads lead to the same destination (and how you get there is immaterial, tho SOME road present lots of unnecessary obstacles and side trips), that it doesn't matter whether you worship one god or many or none, and so forth.

[Megami Kitsune]

45. and only the Abrahamic ones feel such a need to persecute other religions

Eastern faiths for example cannot legally be practised in the
majority of Islamic nations.  I mean Islamic spokespersons
always tell us how "inclusive" and or
"tolerant" their religion is, but this tolerance
generally extends only to what they define as monotheistic or
even the other Abrahamic faiths.  I'm not a big fan of
Christianity and Judaism, but I can't think of any country
(excepting the Vatican) in which they predominate where true
freedom of religion is not practised.

[beam me up scottie]

22. But they do it so well.

All that practice really helped.
:nopity:

[seabeyond]

9. righteous frenzy .............you tell me i am going to hell

as a catholic and then tell me to buck up and not be so sensitive. yes it was offensive when i was 14 and my friends were going out getting drunk oral sex adn everything but intercourse and they were going to heaven, because before they went out that saturday nite the went to confession. but i was going to hell as i stayed at home playing board games with my parents

i wouldnt think this would be something youa re proud about your religion. i would think you would be a little more humble on this part of your religion

[seabeyond]

13. btw, all my fundies say you are heathens, i stick up for you

wink. and i am not either., i am just all around going to hell cause i dont buy into this you are a heathen or fundies going to hell because they dont confess to the priest

[IrateCitizen]

24. WTF are you talking about, seabeyond???

The point of this post was that just about EVERY major religion portrays itself to be the only path to salvation, and that every other path is a false one. So, anybody who is a thinking person is left with their head spinning because they cannot all be right AND wrong at the same time.

You launch into a tirade about oral sex, drinking, fundamentalism, and God knows what else that I can't pull out of your cryptic writing style. Please just clarify for me what this has to do with the initial post.

[seabeyond]

27. prior to this nation embracing theocracy

i could care less that all the religions said the other was going to hell. one of the many absurdities to religion that made me stay away from it. i found jesus has quite a loud voice in our heart, i didnt need to listen to a bunch of men. if catholics wanted to say they were the only way to heaven, and baptists wanted to say catholics were heathens, fine.

today, in this world it isnt conducive for us to be so accepting of this. today religion is fighting for their place in our government. today, religion is passing gods law for us to follow.

today i am no longer giving religion the free pass to say everyone but them is going to hell. today, those participating in religion can own their own absurdity, that they chose to buy into, because they are forcing it on me.

reading your original post it sounds like you are saying this is a to do over nothing. we are working ourselves in a frenzy. do you think it was accident they picked an x nazi pope. i dont think it was accident. i think it was to give a clear message. if it wasnt to give a clear message, then it wasnt very smart of all these really smart people. if they were looking to bring love and peace with their religion, they would have picked someone that even on paper represented that.

[ChickMagic]

10. Oh my. And they have the nerve

to call US elitist? How much more elitist can one possibly be????

[AzDar]

15. .."The only trip out of the country in his life.."..OMFG is that for REAL?

n/t

[patcox2]

20. Yup. nt

nt

[ComerPerro]

31. I dunno, I am sure he has had some "lost weekends" in Mexico

[mpendragon]

19. a heaven full of these people

is a contradiction in terms

[Democrats_win]

23. Beautiful!

A old Lutheran joke:

When a non-Lutheran went to heaven and was given a tour, the tour guide told him to be quite while they walked by a certain door. According to the guide, "The Lutherans are in there and they thing they're the only ones here."

[Democrats_win]

21. Do you think they believed him? --Why did the moron even say it?

Now no one disputes that the 51% who voted for him are morons.

[LiberallyInclined]

25. "Hmm, how many are their?"

their what...?

[eallen]

26. No, not just Catholics. They all are evil.

Happy, now?

:hippie:

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies." -- Thomas Jefferson

[Maine-ah]

29. do you have a link for this quote?

or does anyone else have a link for this quote?

[patcox2]

34. Here is a link to Bushwatch

this website was onto Bush years before the 2000 election. It refers to the Austin American-Statesman, as well.

http://www.bushwatch.com/jews.htm

[flamin lib]

30. I can't find a link to verify that GWB actually said this. Any help

out there?

[patcox2]

33. Not a link, but a reference.

Austin-American Statesman, 1st December 1998

[Zenlitened]

32. I can well believe dubya said something like that.

He's a perfect example one what's wrong with people blinded by their false notions of faith.

[patcox2]

35. Its much easier to find the retraction, he did make one.

He said "its not the governor of Texas' job to decide who goes to heaven and who goes to hell." But cites of this quote rarely mention that the reason he had to say this was because he was retracting his earlier remark.

[sonicx]

36. "Or is it just catholics who are evil?"

First of all, noone thinks Catholics are evil, unless you think criticism is a personal attack.

Second, DU has criticized protestant religious leaders and Bush on his religion plenty of times. The reason we are criticizing the new pope is because he's in the press and newly elected. If some fundie nut was in the news, he'd be getting it too.

A few months ago, Bush made a statement to the effect of "You need to believe in God to be president." DU was not happy.

[patcox2]

37. Here is Bush talking about the incident, but lying about what he said.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/33/story_3345_4.html

Q: Do you think that all major religions are equally true?

Bush: I think that we're all God's children, and far be it from me, as a lowly sinner, trying to decide who gets to go to heaven and who doesn't, for example. I mean at one time, in 1994, I said, "My faith says you must accept Christ to go to heaven." And there was a significant backlash because, as typical in politics, the full story wasn't told. And there was a typical backlash amongst, you know, some Jewish people in Texas that basically felt I had said that they can't go to heaven. I worked hard to make it clear to people, far be it from me to tell you I get to decide who goes. I'm working on myself. I'm focused on me.

And so to answer your question, there are great religions in the world, and it's important to recognize that there are great religions in the world. And there are many shared tenets of the great religions. "Love a neighbor like you'd like to be loved yourself." And there are some wonderful callings. I just happen to be a Christian.
Beliefnet.com editor-in-chief Steven Waldman's interview with Bush, October 2000

[sonicx]

39. Again, the pope is new and in the press. Bush isn't.

Bush has been criticized plenty of times here for similar statements when they were fresh. Someone stated a thread yesterday about fundies trashing the pope. They was criticized. There was a news item a few days ago about a radio fundie who said the pope was going to hell. He was criticized.

[ScreamingMeemie]

42. "Enter into this war and you go without God..."

Who's going to hell again? :hi:

[sabra]

43. a link would be great.

[proud patriot]

44. yep that is what he said

he's got quite a sense of humor doesn't he :puke: