This new pope means I renounce my Catholicism.

[JohnnyCougar]

I hereby proclaim it now. Perhaps this was inevitable. This man is not compassionate, nor is he a good example of what Jesus taught in any way. He was put in there to help the Church make money, and nothing else. John Paul II will be missed.

[seabeyond]

1. my in laws were generations of catholics

good catholics. two gay sons come out and they walked away from their religion. a religion they love so.

do you walk away from this religion, the religion you love, YOUR religion, or do you stand up and FIGHT for YOUR religion

i called churches today. was told, dont talk to me talk to someone higher up. no they wont listen to me. they listen to their people. the people are the ones that have to take back their religion. i am outside, i cannot do it. only thoses inside their religion can fix

it makes me sad, all the beauty of the catholic religion, all it gave my in laws all their life, they walked away

[G_j]

7. why shouldn't people just freely choose?

why should people hold themselves back from progressing to areas that fit them better and address their needs?

[seabeyond]

16. of course they can

i personally am not a believer in religion mans interpretation. i am more a christ is in our heart. listen to heart to hear the purity of song. i dont need man to tell me how to love

if a person leaves the catholic religion because they have progressed thru mans rule, then fine i embrace.

didnt sound like this poster. and i know wasnt my in laws. and my two buddies, devout catholics, it is their confort, their religion. i can find that sad they cant find comfort with self and need a religion, but they do. i wouldnt make that less. i embrace their love for religion.

this is what i am talking.

no i am not telling someone the choices to make

[G_j]

20. good answer

and I share your viewpoint of "christ" is in the heart and listening to the heart to hear the purity of song.
I'm curious about these things because i am looking at them from the outside.

[piece sine]

2. gave up on the RCs years ago...

what took you so long?! And now where do you go? SOem fly-by-now Protestant sect founded by some dude who had a crazy dream? Now you're out in the cold with the rest of exCats... and it feels goooooooooooooood! I mean, imagine...nothing is a sin any more! You're free!

[Maru Kitteh]

60. Why not go to a Protestant church? You think all of them were founded by

men who had crazy visions? Is that what they taught you? Why did you just buy it without seeing for yourself? Some of the well established Protestant denominations have been around since not too long after Martin Luther drove the nail that shook the world.

[Maat]

3. Join the Episcopal Church!

My list of Progressive Churches: questions about them can be answered at the following websites.

Church of Religious Science (focused on affirmations, positive thinking, affirmative prayer),
http://www.rsintl.org/
http://www.religiousscience.org/

Episcopalian Church Main Website:
http://www.episcopalchurch.org/index_flash.htm

Judaism – Reconstructionist Judaism: Main website:
http://www.jrf.org/sitetour.html

Metropolitan Community Churches,
http://www.mccchurch.org/

Quaker – Society of Friends (peace-oriented),
http://www.quaker.org/

United Church of Christ (Rev. Barry Lynn, J.D., of Americans United for Separation of Church and State is ordained through these fine folks; they did the great welcoming commercial),
http://www.ucc.org/index4.html

Unitarian-Universalist,
http://www.uua.org/

Unity,
http://www.unity.org/

And to find the perfect faith for you, a very helpful test:
http://www.beliefnet.com/index.html?rnd=538
(take the Belief-o-Matic Test)

Peace and Blessings,

[mmonk]

4. Which one is right?

[NYC2099]

5. start your own religion - its the in thing nowadays

[Finder]

6. Do what Jesus said....Pray in your closet.

No need to choose a church. The church doesn't make the Christian, the works and faith do.

[Clark2008]

70. I am a lapsed Catholic and have been doing this for four years, now.

My son, at 5 years old, probably knows more of the foundations of Jesus's teachings than he would if he had gone to Sunday School at the churchs, which are all Republican donations headquarters, around here.

I wrote out a letter, yesterday, denouncing Catholism because of this Papal pick - but I haven't sent it.

Not sure I want to give up on the religion in which I was raised because there is some Biblical coup going on, so I'm just going to stick to my own gameplan and raise my son accordingly.

Hey - before there were churches, this is what the Christian folk did - they passed the stories from their mouths to their children.

[DoYouEverWonder]

71. When you realize god is within you

then you don't need no stinkin' churches.

[Maat]

40. I say, 'Take the Beliefnet.com test.'

Church of Religious Science is the one for me (emphasis on self-responsibility and positive thinking).

But I also enjoy going to my UU church for the social activism.

I think a progressive individual should try a service in his top 5 or so.

Try a Unity service; try a Church of Religious Science service; try a Quaker service, etc.

I did! I learned quite a bit!

And, most of all, I learned what was right for me!

[laylah]

49. YEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAW...

I am a 100% Neo-Pagan :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: (thinking this is a GOOD thing)

jenn

[Maat]

75. Well, yeaahhh. Looks like you're a Neo-pagan!

That didn't even come up on my list.

[laylah]

47. Which one is right?

Whatever one speaks to your heart and soul, NO matter which one it may be!

Jenn, a recovering Catholic

[JerseygirlCT]

73. Depends on what you're looking for

are you attached to the liturgy of the RC church? Then you might be comfortable with the Episcopal or Lutheran churches. You'll find yourself quite at home.

As you probably know, however, there are some Episcopal churches that are conservative. You'll want to check that out first. Likewise, you want to avoid the Missouri Synod Lutheran churches -- very, very conservative. What you'd want is the ELCA.

Can't help much with the others, but they're all worthy of a look.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QC]

12. Try learning a bit about Anglican history and theology

and then getting back to us.

[megatherium]

19. Nobody truly has apostolic succession anymore.

Not after all the schisms, anti-popes, simony and sin through the centuries. A 16th century Italian writer mentioned that a contemporary pope was praised because "his malignancy did not above that of the common man".

But you're right about Henry VIII and the origins of the Anglican Church; and you're right that the Episcopal Church USA in particular is an church without a strong teaching authority. It is riven between pro-gay and anti-gay factions, but more profoundly between factions that believe in the Apostolic Creed and the Articles of Religion, and factions that regard important elements of these as obsolete or poetic -- particularly the resurrection of Christ. As an Episcopalian I am not happy to see a Bishop Spong (retired, New Jersey) preach that the resurrection should not be taken as a literal event.

I've given some thought to crossing the Tiber, but I cannot agree with the RCC on ordination of women, acceptance of gay people, married clergy (yes, I know they already have them), and condoms. And I don't think anyone has apostolic succession anymore -- I don't believe that salvation is only available in the RCC.

[Maat]

39. Maybe ... but I care about NOW not BACK THEN ..

it is a good church for those who want to honor Catholic rituals, but who want their money going to an administrative body that is pro-gay-rights.

[LostinVA]

This is absolutely not true!

God, some "Piscies" are more high Church than Catholics... many are Anglo Catholics. And, they have a firm theological base. I just forwarded your post to a friend who's an Episcopalian priest. She'll get a chuckle out of it.

[JohnnyCougar]

14. No wonder...here is my list:

1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
2. Liberal Quakers (91%)
3. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (91%)
4. Theravada Buddhism (80%)
5. Mahayana Buddhism (80%)

Roman Catholic is dead last, at 25%.

One of my professors goes to a UU church here. I should ask her about joining.

[tishaLA]

21. I went to Quaker schools growing up

although I am Jewish. It's just what Jews do in Philadelphia; what can I say? But I found Quakers to be some of the most progressive, warm Christians I have ever known. The entire history of the church has been about social justice.

[Maat]

37. Please ask her about joining!

And thanks for the post.

By-the-way, both my church (Church of Religious Science) and the Unitarian-Universalist Churches encourage the idea of spiritual independence (establishing one's own spiritual path). So, there certainly is no problem with me exploring Buddhism, or any other spirituality. I'm proud of them!

[LostinVA]

58. I was raised RC, I now go to a UU church

I love it, especially their active social justice. I'm also a Pagan, and that group meets semi-monthly (more for special rituals), ALSO at the UU Church! Gotta love 'em. Highest percentage of college grads among the congregation...

[GiovanniC]

24. Wow

100% Unitarian Universalist

I wouldn't have guessed it.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/80/story_8041_1.html

[Maat]

38. I scored 100% Unitarian-Universalist also.

I split my time between Church of Religious Science (www.rsintl.org) and Unitarian-Universalist (www.uua.org).

I encourage everyone to try a UU service!

[phylny]

72. Thanks so much for this information

I used to be Catholic, left the church when I could no longer reconcile the differences, and was Presbyterian for a long time. The local Presbyterian Church is not to my liking, and this info has led me to consider the local Episcopalian church.

You've done a great service, at least for me, today :)

[TahitiNut]

9. I fear you're not alone. Many people will regard this as a "final straw."

This is a clear ascendancy of extreme "conservatism" and Opus Deists where obedience is above conscience and corporal mortification and suffering is applauded rather than relieved. Power and Authority have been elevated, while the 'flock' is told that their suffering is good.

The dogma has rabies - rabid dogma will run in packs.

[AlCzervik]

10. that would be like denoucing your country because Chimpoleon is pResident

i'm not cathloic myself but my husband is and he's pretty pissed off right and told me he won't be going back ever, i told him to really think about it, it's still your religeon and he won't be Pope forever.

[G_j]

17. I must be really dense

but I can't understand the "it's your religion" concept.
I don't understand why people just don't follow their hearts and minds to what works for them. :shrug:

[Bridget Burke]

26. Perhaps.

But you might be able to understand if you try realy hard.

You are responding to someone who may have followed their heart & mind to Roman Catholicism & who still believes. There have been bad popes before & the Church survived. Often the reaction to extremism can have good results.

[roguevalley]

30. renouncing ratzinger is not the same as renouncing your church

I don't believe in Bush but I am still American. The moment the catholics of this world confuse their faith with this man, they are asking to become hurt.

[Scurrilous]

11. Denounce...

..or renounce?

[JohnnyCougar]

18. renounce...i am tired

[enki23]

29. both, from the sound of things

nothing wrong with either.

[dignan27]

13. Come on over!

We'd be happy to have you!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3504652

[slackmaster]

15. My family has been without Catholicism for over 10 generations

There has been only one, and that was by marriage.

Pick a church that works for you, or make up one of your own. It's the ultimate spiritually empowering experience.

:toast:

[Hardrada]

22. My family has been without Catholicism since 1530's or so.

I'm not bragging. Just a historical fact. All Scandinavia switched. But right now I am intrigued by Zen Buddhism since I wish to overcome a desire for possessions etc.

[aneerkoinos]

34. Roots?

Where are your family (Scandinavian) roots? Greetings from Finland, not quite Scandinavia, but close. :)

I'm more and more tempted by Buddhism, reading a lot and getting to know the philosophy, but still looking for (or rather waiting) for the right Sangha. One of the local Zen-groups looks interesting, but I'm also drawn to some of the Tibetan schools with shamanistic traditions.

[Hardrada]

36. Hello from Iowa

My family is from Vik i Sogn and Lillehammer in Norway, mostly Sognings and Vossings. All my parents, grandparents etc. are Norse. I grew up in Lutheran synods but demythologized some years back. I could be a Paul Tillich type theist but I used to read Buddhist texts back in college and grad school. Some Mahayana, some Zen. Can't decide. I think I'll study several varied Buddhist works this summer and try to decide. I had several Finnish-American and Finnish-Norse friends in school: Bernu, Vespuola,and I knew some exchange students too.

[aneerkoinos]

41. Norse

Are tho most loud people in the world when drunk!!! :D

[Hardrada]

46. Well, we do get loud

But the Icelanders get louder!!

[matcom]

23. pedophile priests just weren't quite enough eh?

nor was the demagoguing of women

or birth control

or women as second class citizens

no. THIS is the "last straw" right?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

25. Many people hoped for another John XXIII

This pretty much ends all hope of there ever being a John XXIII in our generation again. This pope will surround himself with like-minded thinkers and when he passes, those up for the job will be uber-conservatives just like him.

[matcom]

28. ummmmm didn't John HIDE Cardinal Law?

i have loftier aspirations thanks

[SemiCharmedQuark]

31. Cardinal Law was ordained in 1961 and John XXIII died in '63

I highly doubt Cardinal Law ever even met John XXIII. Do you have a link? I might be completely wrong.

[matcom]

32. sorry

didn't pay attention to the numbers (meant the recently dispatched Pope) ;)

[Rich Hunt]

33. whah?

That reads like an insinuation to me.

[JohnnyCougar]

35. Well, if you look at all the negatives at once...

...and overexaggerate the scope of what those negatives brought to this world like you just did, then yes, it is surprising that I stayed this long.

But women were not treated as second class citizens in any church I knew about, nor was there ever any demagoguing of women. The Church community is more than just what a few people at the top say. But then, coming from your perspective, you wouldn't see that. My Catholic/Jesuit education has made me the liberal that I am, yet you only focus on the negative things the Church does or teaches.

[Bridget Burke]

27. You really need to speak to your parish priest about this.

Not in hopes that he will change your mind, but so that your "vote" might make a difference. If enough good Catholics leave over this, it might have some bearing on the Church's future. Surely, the priest who has given you Communion every Sunday will be seriously concerned.

Of course, if you haven't actually been to church in quite a while, this does make for a nice, dramatic statement!

[Arugula Latte]

42. Congratulations!

I mean it. Congratulations. If more people had the guts to do this, these women-hating, gay-hating, condom-hating, pedophile-condoning pricks wouldn't have any power.

All you really need is the Golden Rule anyway.

[BigBearJohn]

43. I do too. I resign.

[Arugula Latte]

45. Congratulations to you, too.

I feel weirdly proud, even though I don't know you.

[SoCalDem]

44. It's not hard to do.. you just quit going to mass, and stop giving $$

I did it at 18, and never looked back:)

[Selatius]

48. You don't need an institution to be with God

It doesn't really matter if you were Catholic or are no longer Catholic. Through the self-evident gift of reason as well as freewill, you can find your path to God or heaven or whatever you want to call it. You were given those two gifts in order to find the path. It would seem sensible to think then that is all that is required. The institution or the pope is superfluous if that be the case.

Not through brick and mortar institutions will you find God.

[n2mark]

52. Call me a skeptic

but aren't these churches part of the Evangelical? I'm upset with my church now, but to go to a denominatinal church, I question. I may disagree with the new Pope, no way can I leave the church. The catholic church is my family, I grew up with them, I gave to them, not just monitarily, but gave my life for them. There is no way I can leave the Catholic church, I don't agree with the church, but I don't agree with my government but I support some of my church and support some of my government. Guess I am wishy washy but that is the way it is... I am also a Democrat and won't leave them either.


I am a Cathollic and a Democrat. No way can anyone take these beliefs away from me.

[Selatius]

66. Well, you have a choice what you want to do. I'm very skeptical myself.

You are Roman Catholic, and you have chosen to remain one. I was Roman Catholic but am no longer. Through contemplation and meditation, I have come to leave organized religion. The relationship I have with God is just between the Creator and I. In my mind, I don't need a representative of my faith as in a pope. I am perfectly capable of representing myself just fine as well as every other human being.

The self-evident gifts of thought and freewill were handed to me, and that is the only "institution" I subscribe to. I owe allegiance to no political party, nor do I consider myself belonging to any organized religion. I owe allegiance only to my friends and family, my principles, and God.

The answer or the path is different to every single person. Each and every person finds his or her own way. That only comes from using those gifts. We both came to different conclusions. Who is right? Who is wrong? That's not an issue for any human to decide except God. I can't give you an answer here. That's not something I can do. What counts is whether we came to our beliefs because of self-interest or the sincere search for enlightenment. That is something only God knows.

This is why I don't judge homosexuality as either good or evil. It just is. I'm not going to believe it is evil just because a book tells it so. I'm skeptical of the idea of suspending one's own God-given gift of reason by placing faith in a book full of stories and believe it is fact when really only some of it is fact, nevermind placing faith in a man-made institution. I see nothing wrong with questioning scripture or being skeptical of its veracity or questioning authority political or religious. That's simply using the gifts that were given to every human soul.

[quaoar]

50. I left the Catholic Church about 20 years ago

Because of people like Ratzinger and joined the United Methodist Church. Not easy to do when you grew up in an Italian family.

I think of myself now as a retired Catholic.

[Sterling]

51. Good for you.

I think all the child rape, inquisition etc... would have turned me off before this but congrats on seeing the light!!!

[ScreamingMeemie]

53. Stand up and leave during the homily this Sunday, or over prayers for

the new pope. This is what many of us did in October when our parish priests politicized the pulpit by asking for our yes vote on Prop 2 here in MI. Make a statement. You'll feel as if you at least did something.

[Rocketdude]

54. Which Cardinal would you have prefered? N/T

[ScreamingMeemie]

55. I don't have a "preference" anymore. I stood up and left during the

atrocious "go out and vote against your neighbor" sermon. Sorry I can't help you.

[Rocketdude]

56. Just curious

I just don't think any of the Cardinals would have changed the Church's position on abortion, euthanasia, birth control or gay marriage. I guess I don't understand the outrage. Just more of the same. I guess I don't see why this would push anyone over the edge to leave their Church now.

[ScreamingMeemie]

57. If you look back on John Paul I (i.e. the Smiling Pope) he was ready

to look into changing the Church's views on birth control...so I couldn't disagree with you more. Sorry again.

[Rocketdude]

59. What was the change to be?

What type of changes? And what Cardinal in the Church now do you think would have changed the Church's position on this or any of the other issues. Be easy on me, I'm new here.

On edit, I just googled JP I and birth control and found that he did indeed in private express reservations due to overpopulation. Still a far cry from advocating a change in the Church's position.

[ScreamingMeemie]

62. The allowance of several forms of birth control instead of the rhythmn

method. Oscar Andrés Rodríguez Maradiaga would have been my choice. A Honduran cardinal.

[Rocketdude]

63. Good Choice

I think he would have been a good choice too. Would make sense since half the Catholics in the world are from Latin America. Not sure what difference he would have made as far as changing Catholic doctrine. I did find this is a Miami Herald article about him.

Rodríguez follows a strict Vatican line on issues like abortion, birth control and the role of women in the Church.


http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/2005/04/13/news/world/11377415.htm

[ScreamingMeemie]

64. But, he is more open minded about debate on these things. If you

look up the bios of most of the cardinals the solidarity with the Vatican can be found. But, they can always change that opinion, once the Pope is gone. :hi:

[Rocketdude]

67. Agreed

They all do seem to hold the Vatican line in their positions. I just don't see the church ever changing their position on the issues I mentioned. Thankfully I don't see the Church changing its position on oppostion to war or the death penalty either. Thanks so much for the :hi: . I don't see why your name is MrsGrumpy.

Here's to you.

:toast:

[ScreamingMeemie]

68. Thanks Rocketdude! and Belated Welcome to DU.

I had hopes for a change in the Church position. Now I'd like to see a split away to a secular Catholic Church. :toast:

[Mr_Spock]

61. I do too!!

Oh, I'm not Catholic. :D

[LittleClarkie]

65. Even though he's older than dirt?

Placemarker pope, that's what I call him. Somehow I don't think he's going to be there for long.

I'm not Catholic, but it sucks that you feel it's come to this.

Will you continue in some sort of faith, or will this be it for organized religion for you?

[Is It Fascism Yet]

69. Sorry for whatever personal loss this means for you, but

thanks for taking a stand against morals dictated by immoral falsely pious power mongering pediphile protecting former Nazis.

[newportdadde]

74. Good deal.

Good your standing up for what you believe in. Now crack open that bible you dont need anyone else but YOU to interpret it.