And the DU Religion Bashing Kicks Into HIGH GEAR

[Placebo]

There's a real difference between rational, reasoned, logical outrage to the selection of Pope Benedict XVI (Ratzinger), but 89 different threads repeating NAZI! NAZI! NAZI! and trying to fuse the Papal selection with Bush and Right Wing politics, the KKK and Satan...kind of paranoid and unfair.

And for the record, I'm an atheist who isn't even a fan of Ratzinger! But I still think this is getting out of control and not only makes DU look bad, but makes a lot of our religious members feel excluded, persecuted, and like outsiders.

Just my 2¢

[Kolesar]

1. I think the front page is going to be full of pope-threads all day

Time to go read www.slate.com . Or vacuum the living room.

[Dorian Gray]

49. Yes....

Better things to read and do at other sites or in my home. I need a break from this. See you all tomorrow. :)

[UdoKier]

2. There are definitely too many threads

though I don't think they are mostly "religion-bashing".


I tried to hid a bunch of them, but they still show up...

[freedom_to_read]

3. I agree with you 1000%

come on folks, leave it.

[woo me with science]

4. thank you

Sometimes the bigotry on these forums gets disgusting to the point of nausea.

[me b zola]

39. Bigotry? Bushit!

Most of the people who have responded in horror in the last hour or so to the news of the new Pope are people of faith. It is not only my right, but my responsiblility as a Catholic to speak up in anger at the choice of the new leader of the Church, and what that means not only to the Church, but to the world. :rant:

[Runcible Spoon]

77. great post!

I hate to kick this thread but I had to say something. I really need to see more people like you taking back their faith from fascists!

[tallahasseedem]

78. Exactly!

:applause:

[mitchtv]

116. you said it me b zola

the media is doing all the fluff, wonderful, pope stuff,Du is where survivors of JP2 may hear something different. When is Michael Jackson coming back?

[beam me up scottie]

5. Religious bashing?

please...
* , frist and delay are using that tired old line, give it a rest.

[okieinpain]

114. careless about the pope, but there should be a post just for that

movie in your signature. love it and it is so relevant to what is happening today.

[quinnox]

6. Yup

It's a feeding frenzy

I'm not a Catholic either

[Modem Butterfly]

7. I haven't seen it

Who's bashing religion?

[ET Awful]

8. Stating that criticizing or ridiculing the Pope is religion bashing is no

different than saying that criticizing the President is anti-American.

[Telly Savalas]

19. Exactly.

I got the impression that many of the Anti-Benny posts are from Catholics who are disappointed by the selection.

I'm not a Catholic, but I think that the Catholic Church has enormous potential to do good and make the world a better place. Choosing a right-wing, homophobe, misogynist, anti-choice person as pope is a major step backwards. Pointing that fact out isn't bashing religion.

[redqueen]

21. THANK YOU!

And way to help the over saturation of pope threads - start a new one!

[ET Awful]

27. Huh?

I'm not sure I understand exactly why you're directing that at me.

[redqueen]

38. Oh no, sorry... the subject line was for you...

the message I should have more clearly addressed to the author of the OP.

:blush:

[ET Awful]

40. Okay :)

Just checking, you confused me gawldurnit! :)

[goodboy]

26. kick for your post...(nt)

[arcos]

43. I totally agree! nt

[Terran]

47. Theologically speaking, you are wrong

However much you might this ludicrous, the Pope is considered the direct spiritual heir of the Apostle Peter, Christ's first "vicar" on Earth, in an unbroken succession. The Pope is not just a religious leader; he is arguably an intrinsic component OF that religion, as much as the Dalai Lama is part of his. So when one 'bashes' the Pope, it's not hard to argue that Catholicism itself is being bashed. One is bashing the spiritually infallible interpreter of God's revealed word.

I'm not a Catholic, I just know this stuff; and I'm not trying to persuade you of anything, I'm just stating facts here as they are accepted by most, if not all, Catholics.

[ET Awful]

50. Sorry, you can't elect a spiritual heir. They either are or they aren't

If he was truly a "spiritual heir" there wouldn't be a need for a vote, it would simply "be."

[Terran]

54. They've been doing it that way for 7 centuries.

Who are you to say they don't know what they're doing?

Look, I'm just sayin', this is the doctrine and the belief. It's VERY VERY basic to Catholic belief. So given that belief, that is one major reason why bashing the Pope is offensive to Catholics. "Sorry," but there is no arguing that.

[ET Awful]

56. I see, well, bashing peyote is offensive to me, as I consider it

the spiritual heir to those who came before me.

[Terran]

61. Ok, cool

I don't disagree with what I think you're saying. So you're actually a member of the Peyote Religion? How unusual.

[Zhade]

97. Excellent point.

NT!

[ananda]

69. bashing whom?

"One is bashing the spiritually infallible interpreter of God's revealed word."

Another insidious piece of propaganda disguised as dogma...

I'm just bashing a guy who deserves it for being a racist, sexist, homophobic, adultist, demogogue... well disguised as a holy roman catholic pope able to sway millions... just not me.


Sue

[Terran]

112. Thanks for chiming in, Sue

*I'm* not saying the Pope is a "spiritually infallible interpreter of God's revealed word"; I'm saying that's what millions of Catholics believe. Try to keep up.

And by the way, what the f*ck is an "adultist"?

[Arugula Latte]

9. Oh please.

This evil cabal has control over millions of people. They're political. Thus open to bashing.

Boo hoo.

[Mr_Scarecrow]

12. Correction, not millions,

Billions.

[Mr_Spock]

10. Bah, these are open forums - relax - let people vent

It's not as important as you make it sound - we all have bad days. We've witnesses Freepsplosions and then we forget about it the next day. Relax. Ooooooouuumm, oooouuuumm

[monobrau]

11. Not about religion

We stand against ignorance and hate, even when the pigs who perpetrate it hide behind the veil of religion or wrap themselves in the flag.
I care less about his distant past and more about his crimes against humanity over the last 20 years.

[HEyHEY]

13. Nazi sympathizer

:P

[beam me up scottie]

14. I just love how

helpful you always are!
:evilgrin:

[HEyHEY]

51. I try scottie, I try

[beam me up scottie]

55. And I love you for it!

There are few things I can count on in life...
:toast:

[Sparkle]

15. It was inevitable.

The only thing you can do is log off for a while and let it die down.

[Placebo]

59. Probably.

Time to read some of those articles for Art History.

[Zynx]

16. Agreed!

He's not a Nazi, nor was he picked by Bush and the neocons - that was supposedly the Schoneburg guy from Austria anyway.

[MadHound]

18. He's not currently a Nazi

However he was a member of the Hitler Youth, and served in defense of Hitler and the Nazi party. The man had a choice to either serve the forces of evil, or not. JPII chose to resist, Benedict didn't. I find that to be a very telling flaw in the man's character. And I fear for the future of the church I once called my own.

[Bridget Burke]

25. Did you stand up to the Nazis when you were 14?

Surely--you did something equally as brave.

[MadHound]

34. By the time I was fourteen

I was already protested the Vietnam war, had been since I was nine, worked on the McGovern campaign, was protesting no-nukes, and was standing up to my manic depressive father so he wouldn't beat the shit out of my mother. Anything else you wish to know?

The man had a choice. JPII chose to resist the Nazis, Benedict decided to go along to get along. I know many German immigrants who did choose to resist, even when they were younger than Benedict. And yes, they suffered for it. Sorry, youth isn't an excuse, it is a cop out.

[davepc]

60. What death camp were they sending Vietnam protesters too?

Or are you going to make a comparison between isolated incidents like Kent State and the institutionalized government sponsored round up and extermination of dissenters.

[MadHound]

62. None,however

My father did have his shotgun in hand when I stepped in. Anything else you'd like to crack on oh so funny one?

Oh, and another thing, there were many German resistors who didn't go into the Hitler Youth, or any other German military organization. And yes, they paid the price, some of them the ultimate one. And some of these people were as young as Ratzinger, or younger. I know, I lived in the same small immigrant town as they did.

[RPM]

82. thanks madhound

you are right - Benedict XVI cant hold JPII's jock when it comes to having moral clout.

[Charon]

127. German Resistors

How many out of the German population resisted?

[cajones_II]

75. It was called

Death. They killed off quite a few.

[Charon]

126. not currently a nazi

I could make an equally valid statement by saying that the thousands of young men drafted during the 60 for the Viet Nam war served in the defense of President Johnson and the Democratic Party. Would you accept that as a true statment? I do not think so. If I said that they (Viet Nam draftees) obeyed the law and carried out the duties expected of them by the government. Would you consider that a valid statement? Serving (being drafted) by the government during a war does not alway mean that you are a follower of the the countries leader or his political party. Do you believe that everyone in Wehrmacht should be condemed as a nazi bcause of their obeying the law that drafted them.

[arwalden]

17. Oh Whaaah!

"You don't like who was chosen as pope. You don't like church policies... you're BASHING ME!"

[Placebo]

20. Way to totally put words in my mouth!

:eyes:

[arwalden]

32. Heh-Heh... Feel Free To Claim Them If You Want!

But it was only a *response* to your message... not "putting words in your mouth". :eyes:

[Rich Hunt]

123. nice picture of Lucy there

Nice picture of a crying Lucille Ball there - why did you choose it?

By the way - you used the wrong Lucy.

[callous taoboy]

22. Sorry, but I've had enough backwards beliefs shoved

in front of my face to last me a life-time. Religion is one of the greatest stumbling blocks humanity has had to face.

Religion ruled the dark ages.

[Walt Starr]

23. This is NOT religion bashing, it's HEAD OF STATE BASHING!

As Pope, Ratzinger is now the Head of State for Vatican City and as with all Heads of State, he's open to bashing!

[beam me up scottie]

31. REALLY

good point!

[MadHound]

45. LOL Walt, thanks for the laugh!

:rofl: I needed that.

[ananda]

71. I don't care who he is..

Ratzy could be God him/herself and I would bash her/him up one side and down the other for being so anti-human and discriminatory towards so many oppressed groups.

Sue

[RPM]

83. good point

that's my line from here on out!

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zhade]

98. Thanks for injecting a dose of reality into this nonsense.

"Religion bashing" my ass.

[billyf65]

24. Thank you...all well said.

[Quixote1818]

28. Many of those making these claim are Catholics. Relax

nt

[MadHound]

29. I think that you're ascribing waaaay to much importance

To what is written here on DU, an anonymous political chatboard, that has 65,000 members, and twice that many lurkers. Gee, a whopping total of aprox. two hundred thousand people who know we exist. Out of a population of 300 million. Gee, that comes out to fractions of one percent:eyes:

As far as making our fellow faithful DU members feel excluded, persecuted and outsiders, well I think most of them are intelligent enough to realize that we're not directing this vitriol their way. Besides, now they get to walk in the shoes that atheists, agnostics and those who aren't Judeo-Christian have to wear every single day. Last I saw, the faithful can run for public office in every single state in the union, atheists can't. Perhaps an experience like this is a good thing, a little empathy for one's fellow human eh?

[callous taoboy]

42. Thank you, MadHound-

You stated it in a way that I cannot right now due to being under the gun at my job, under the gun because of the policies of the goddamned hypocritical morons who are running the show in the usa.

[AntiCoup2K4]

30. I am no religion basher

I've had my own problems with some of the more rabid anti-theist discussions around here, but I don't believe this subject matter meets that criteria at all.

Discussion of whether the largest Christian church on this planet just named a NAZI to be their leader is a valid topic, especially given the fact that Pope JP only recently made an apology to the Jewish people that many felt was decades too late.

And as far as Satan goes, if the Malachy prophecies are any indication, this pope won't work for :evilgrin:, but the one after him will. And since Ratzinger is 78, it's a given that he ain't gonna beat JP's record for longevity.

[cally]

33. I don't find most of this religion bashing

Most of us do not see the Pope as infallible. He's a political and religious leader and is open for criticism. This choice of a Pope is bad for liberals.

I refuse to not criticize religious leaders. They don't speak for God. They are men (almost always) who say they speak for God. They deserve questioning.

[Quixote1818]

35. Absolutly and many who are upset about Razinger are Catholic!!! nt

[callous taoboy]

48. Thank you, Cally. n/t

[Blue Moon]

36. I've oftentimes found

that people tend to bash what they don't understand, what they are most afraid of, or what reminds them of their own frailties and insecurities. Tolerant people tend to bash less and and think more independently.

[beam me up scottie]

41. And I suppose you think we have nothing to fear

from the church?
Explain "bashing" please.

[Blue Moon]

44. I can't speak for you

but I have nothing to fear from the church. I get a kick out of how people talk about "the church" as if it were some anthropomorphic being that exists independently. "The church" = the people who make up its congregation! If you have a fear of the church, then de facto, you have a fear of the 1 billion people who ARE the church. Some of them most likely are your neighbors, friends, relatives, and co-workers. It's pretty f**cking laughable to be scared!

[beam me up scottie]

53. You really should pick up a book now and then.

In case you haven't been paying attention THE CHURCH is directly and indirectly responsible for helping spread AIDS and causing the deaths of thousands, possibly millions of their followers in 3rd world countries.

THE CHURCH protected child molesters by moving them to new parishes so that they could prey on other children.

FYI, I have dozens of catholic friends who do NOT support what
THE CHURCH has done in the name of "god" and "faith".
Guess what? THE CHURCH doesn't care what most catholics think.

Most of my friends have left because of the above mentioned reasons, as well as others too numerable to list.

I am not "scared" of any religion or church, but I am enraged at the crimes committed by those supposedly speaking for "the lord".

Why aren't you?

[Blue Moon]

79. Why should I be enraged

at the Catholic church? Because you say I should? If anything, I'm aggravated at hyperbole and falsehoods spread about religion and religion bashing in general. You don't like the church, fine. But I'm under no obligation to accept your opinion as Gospel. Get it? Gospel! LOL!

[beam me up scottie]

86. Umm, because they are KILLING PEOPLE maybe?

And if you think I am spreading falsehoods about the church, LOOK IT UP.
Telling people that condoms don't prevent and actually help spread AIDS is EVIL.
Millions will die because THE CHURCH lied to them.
That's tantamount to murder in my book.
So damn straight I DON'T LIKE IT.
duh

[Zhade]

100. It's not her opinion. It's established FACT.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1020400,00.html

The Vatican instructed Catholic bishops around the world to cover up cases of sexual abuse or risk being thrown out of the Church.
The Observer has obtained a 40-year-old confidential document from the secret Vatican archive which lawyers are calling a 'blueprint for deception and concealment'. One British lawyer acting for Church child abuse victims has described it as 'explosive'.

The 69-page Latin document bearing the seal of Pope John XXIII was sent to every bishop in the world. The instructions outline a policy of 'strictest' secrecy in dealing with allegations of sexual abuse and threatens those who speak out with excommunication.

They also call for the victim to take an oath of secrecy at the time of making a complaint to Church officials. It states that the instructions are to 'be diligently stored in the secret archives of the Curia as strictly confidential. Nor is it to be published nor added to with any commentaries.'



Here's the DOCUMENT:

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Observer/documents/2003/08/16/Criminales.pdf

Next time, try knowing what the fuck you're talking about before trying to shut down a more knowledgeable poster.

[Blue Moon]

102. Sorry, that's not fact

That the guardian! Next time, don't believe everything you read and know what the fuck you're reading before you let yourself be led around by the nose by a journalist. Remembe all the threads here that claim biased journalism? Is that only true for journalism that you disagree with? You are very gullible, aren't you? LOL!

[The Magistrate]

103. The Document Is Genuine, Sir

No one has yet presented any credible reason to question it. It is, admittedly, from certain perspectives, an uncomfortable thing to have in circulation, but that cannot be helped, since it does exist, and did define policy in the matter for many years....

[Blue Moon]

105. Yes the document is genuine

but comic books are genuine too. I don't quote comic books for my facts, and I don't accept silly rags such as the guardian for facts either. LOL! It's amazing that we have thread after thread talking about how biased journalists are, yet we quickly run to a silly publication such as that for the REAL FACT. LOL!

[beam me up scottie]

106. Is CATHOLIC NEWS a rag?

This is from their website:


"CathNews is a service of Church Resources. It is a daily news service with prayer, meditation and Catholic website reviews. It is the most visited Catholic website in Australia, providing a mix of news and prayer updated daily, which is also available free of charge by email. As of February 2004, there were more than 10,000 email subscribers and almost 9000 visits to the site each day."

http://www.cathnews.com/news/310/53.php

The Guardian
Thursday October 9, 2003
Steve Bradshaw

" Vatican: condoms don't stop Aids "

"The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which HIV can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.
The church is making the claims across four continents despite a widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to HIV.
A senior Vatican spokesman backs the claims about permeable condoms, despite assurances by the World Health Organisation that they are untrue."

"The president of the Vatican's Pontifical Council for the Family, Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, told the programme: "The Aids virus is roughly 450 times smaller than the spermatozoon. The spermatozoon can easily pass through the 'net' that is formed by the condom."

"The WHO has condemned the Vatican's views, saying: "These incorrect statements about condoms and HIV are dangerous when we are facing a global pandemic which has already killed more than 20 million people, and currently affects at least 42 million."

"In Lwak, near Lake Victoria, the director of an Aids testing centre says he cannot distribute condoms because of church opposition. Gordon Wambi told the programme: "Some priests have even been saying that condoms are laced with HIV/Aids.
Panorama found the claims about permeable condoms repeated by Catholics as far apart as Asia and Latin America."

source:http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,7369,1059068,00....

Here are some other links Catholic News provides:

Vatican: condoms don't stop Aids (The Guardian)
Vatican in HIV condom row
Vatican says condoms don't stop AIDS (Reuters)
Program: Vatican misinforming on condoms (UPI)
Vatican Says Condoms Don't Block HIV, BBC Reports (Bloomberg)
Catholic Relief Services: HIV/AIDS in Africa
African Jesuit AIDS Network
Pope urges AIDS programs that respect church teaching (24/9/03)
Kenyan archbishop warns condoms will not prevent AIDS (5/8/03)
Catholic bishops back government AIDS plan (14/8/03)

[Blue Moon]

108. I have no idea if it's a rag

I'm not Catholic. And I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, but don't waste your time, because I won't buy into it anyway.

[beam me up scottie]

109. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

:rofl:
I thought as much.
I guess I must have "misunderstood" what you meant when you said:
"I'm aggravated at hyperbole and falsehoods spread about religion and religion bashing in general."
:hi:

[Blue Moon]

110. You are correct!

You have shown that you are adept at misunderstanding! LOL!

[Zhade]

115. Two kinds of people who believe this to be untrue:

Hardcore Catholics, and Freepers.

We already know the poster is not a Catholic.

[Blue Moon]

121. Correct, I'm not a Catholic

And because I don't subscribe to a majority opinion or your opinion that makes me a freeper? I'm a Democratic Libertarian. Don't attempt to intimidate me from my right to hold legitimate independent opinion. Intolerance for independent thought is characteristic of freeprism. You need to be careful how you stereotype people. Sterotyping is something Freepers are very, very good at. Perhaps I need to question your affiliation.

[Zhade]

128. Blah, blah, blah.

Anyone who thinks the Guardian is a rag is either:

1) a freeper

2) an uninformed idiot

Your choice.

[spooky3]

104. I suggest you consult other sources.

There is substantial documentation of abuse and coverup, and stories about it have appeared in highly respected outlets around the world.

[Zhade]

99. Thank you, BMUS. You get it.

The corporation known as the RCC is indeed an organization of more than "its followers", one which has tremendous amounts of blood on its hands in the past and today.

This is NOT to say that all Catholics have this same blood on their hands, or that they in any way endorse these crimes committed by the RCC.

[beam me up scottie]

107. You're absolutely right.

This is the first time I have come across someone who isn't bothered by this.
Most catholics are more critical of these policies than I am.

[Zhade]

117. See post #115. Someone got lost on their way to a different website.

NT!

[beam me up scottie]

125. Snarf!

It must really suck to be blind by choice.
They keep tripping over things, like the truth.
Then they blame it on the people who keep putting the truth in their way.
sad
:nopity:

[Rich Hunt]

124. bashing is

Following people from thread to thread and ridiculing them instead of attempting to engage someone in civil debate.

It's also making oblique references to people's personal lives and extracurricular activities and hoping no one will notice....NOT.

There's a lot more going on here that you're not aware of, apparently. I'd be careful about making alliances with some of these characters (and I do mean characters).

[ThumperDumper]

37. Sounds like you're fishing.

Sounds like you came here looking for religion bashing, spent about 5 minutes, and didn't actually READ any of the threads.

[info being]

46. But you guys are such easy targets

[HEyHEY]

52. My true feeling - every religion pretty well has some clause

Saying non-believers are lesser beings and will burn in hell or what have you... if that is part of your belief of your religion, I don't give two shits about slamming it.

[info being]

57. Good point.

I hadn't thought of it that way. So bashing religion is manditory.

[Arugula Latte]

58. Amen, brother.

(whoops) ;)

[tinonedown]

63. Where have you been?!

Every day is anti-religion day here.
For some reason Islamic faithful catch a break but Judaism, Christianity/Catholics?
Please, it's a hit parade day after day.

[beam me up scottie]

66. .

:spray:
:rofl:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

122. Pffft

:eyes:

And I'm Catholic.

[Behind the Aegis]

64. And the claims of "religion bashing" kicks into high gear!

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

65. it's bashing a rightwing,homphobic, sexist, anti-semitic, prick

he attacked liberation theology-he's not just out of touch-he's evil

and it's completely justified to point it out. catholics should be completely outraged over this selection and demand real change from their church.

[BikeWriter]

67. Uproar over priestly pedophilia in the United States: a "planned campaign"

He once called homosexuality a tendency toward "intrinsic moral evil" and dismissed the uproar over priestly pedophilia in the United States as a "planned campaign" against the church.

[ananda]

68. Saying it like it is

Geez, does the truth hurt?

Why should I be respectful towards a person and an institution that discriminates against me because of my gender?

When Ratzy decides to respect me, all women, all gays, all children, and all human rights; when he puts the interests of the poor and working classes over those of the more affluent and authoritarian.. then I'll think about changing my now extremely low opinion of his utter baseness.

All that holy popefoggery, with the robes, the mitre, and the Latin don't sway me one bit. Bush does it too with the high podiums, the flags, and the haloes... it's called mesmeric crowd manipulation... and boy does it work!

Sue

[sonicx]

70. And criticizing Condi Rice is being anti-Black.

Glad to see we still use logic.

:sarcasm:

[Bluebear]

73. Indeed.

[fishwax]

89. And probably unAmerican too!

Plenty of the people pissed about the new pope right now are Catholics themselves.

And frankly, I haven't seen much past open and frank discussion. Not much that I'd consider bashing (that's coming from a Catholic).

[cry baby]

72. I hate to admit this...but I've seen that same thing today.

I have tried not to read those threads. I just don't think it looks good for liberals to be so hateful.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

76. Oh my yes!

Criticism of the pope and the church is off limits, didn't you know that?
Just ignore the victims of molestation and the millions of dead and dying from AIDS in Africa.
The catholic church sure does.

[SlowDownFast]

80. I already have pope-stains in my drawers...

been so busy reading all these pope-posts i havn't had time to get to the toilet.

[tyedyeto]

81. The head of the Catholic Church is more than a 'religious' leader...

he is also the head of a country.

When the Catholic Church elects such a person, they are condoning what that person has done in every part of his life. Be it an alcoholic, abuser, or Nazi sympathiser.

[tsuki]

84. No, what is unfair is defending pedophile priests and condemning

homosexuals. Even though I walk out in 1999, I can condemn the hierarchy on that one.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

85. There are quite a few DUers that see the connection between the....

...Hitler Youth indoctrination he received between the ages 14 and 16, and his current religious and political doctrine.

And for the record, this is not an anti-religion issue. It is instead a close examination of a man with ultra-conservative views that has just become the head-of-state of a major world religion.

[mitchum]

87. Just how tenuous is anyone's faith if it can't bear up under "bashing"?

Superstitious bullshit is all

[funflower]

95. Bashing

It's not about whether their faith can stand up to it. It's about whether you are treating a fellow human being with respect.

Gays/lesbians stand up to bashing all the time. Doesn't make the bashing right.

[KitchenWitch]

88. Placebo, I agree with you

It is hard for me to condemn him for the whole Nazi Youth thing, since all the aryan children of a certain age were compelled to join.

[w4rma]

90. The guy supported the Holocaust and he's now the spiritual leader of the

Catholic church. That church is unsalvagable, now.

Deal with it. He's now responsible for picking the Bishops and Cardinals for about the next two decades. That group was already Nazi enough to pick him, so you can bet that the group won't grow any better afeter two decades of this Nazi.

[Lerkfish]

91. You're saying there is no connection between this pope and Right wing

politics? you sure you want to make that claim?

er...ok.

[bobaloo2]

92. What's worse

I could forgive a guy for being caught up in what his country was experiencing 60 years ago, it's his voluntary assumption of the role of head of the Inquisition for the last 25 years that tells what he really is.

Anyone who would take on that role has a darkness in their soul.

[nedbal]

94. makes DU look bad

[Zhade]

96. Ratzinger is an uberconservative fuck. Get used to the "bashing".

I agree that the Nazi thing is weak, but the rest of his life is ripe fodder for those interested in holding guys like him accountable.

He may be the new pope, but he's still a sonofabitch.

[Lab2112]

101. RE: And the DU Religion Bashing Kicks Into HIGH GEAR

C'mon, cut us some slack, willya?

We're just giving Bill Frist talking points, free of charge, when he gives his speech about "Democrats against people of faith."

And then we'll be offended that anyone could make such a baseless accusation, and proceed to bash the religious fundies some more to drive home our point.

Sure. Makes sense!

LAB

[jonnyblitz]

111. looks like the apologists for wingnut assholes have kicked into high gear

also. :)

[beam me up scottie]

113. No kidding!

Did you know that the church's published policy on the use of condoms in third world countries is considered my "opinion"?

[Mondon]

118. Thanks

I agree. Those who deny it aren't looking hard enough.

[Name removed]

119. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[two gun sid]

120. Is this GD? Isn't the discussion supposed to include all....

viewpoints? Don't all members have the ignore feature?

If someone makes an outrageous or ignorant statement so what? Deal with it. Take it for what it is or reply to it and show them the error of their opinion.

I'd hate to see what DU would look like if we could only discuss things that no one could take offense to.

[thebigidea]

129. as opposed to the religious DU-bashing, I guess