NAZI PAST OF RIGHT-WING PAPAL (RATZINGER) CANDIDATE

[doublethink]

April 17, 2005 -- A "fuhrer" furor is dogging the papal candidacy of Germany's top Roman Catholic cleric — over revelations he was a member of the Hitler Youth.

Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger — a favorite to become the next pontiff — joined the Nazi children's corps in 1941 as a 14-year-old and was later an anti-aircraft gunner.

At one point, he guarded a factory where slaves from a concentration camp were forced to work. He was later shipped to Hungary, where he reportedly saw Jews persecuted. -snip-

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/42823.htm

another short article here ....
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm_objectid=15413309&method=full&siteid=50143&headline=nazi-past-of-right-wing-papal-candidate-name_page.html

[Teaser]

1. If we're going to do this

we ought to dredge up Senator Byrd's past in the KKK with as much relish.

[ananda]

3. or..

Bush's past.

But then, anything is OK if you're Republican or an arch-conservative, former Nazi.

Sue

[LynneSin]

4. Senator Byrd has done enough to make up for his youthful indiscretions

I'm waiting to hear something about the same from Ratzinger.

[Zynx]

21. Youthful???

Byrd wasn't exactly a kid when he was in the Klan.

[Don Claybrook]

7. OK

Let's let everyone live with their record, and let's see what they've done since the time of those 'youthful indiscretions'.

I'll put Robert Byrd up against any neo-conservative former Nazi. I'm comfortable with that.

[Charon]

27. Former Nazi

Do you have proof that The new Pope was a member of the Nazi Party. Or is you theory, that anyone that was German and 12 years old in 1939, a Nazi.

[monobrau]

12. That would be fine with me

I don't tow the party line where Byrd is concerned. He should have been tossed on the garbage pile a long time ago. It's too bad somebody didn't shoot his cracker ass while he was wearing his klan robe.
But - he has managed to deal with his past and continues to be elected by his constituency.
Would Ratzinger survive a democratic process if catholics were allowed to vote?

[Sparkle]

2. Yes, but the guy did defect from that army, didn't he?

Imo, he was probably forced to join and once he was able to escape, he did.

[ananda]

8. did he?

Ratzinger -claims- that he was forced to join the Nazi party and never fired a shot. Other Germans, however, disagree. They say he had a choice.

Sue

[doublethink]

24. Escape?

hmmmm I do know he left his post and went home when Allied forces were closing in at the end of the war. He went home where he was captured and became a POW for a few months.

[mmonk]

5. I'm Catholic and not offended

by the articles. I'm offended by the choice. I'm offended the pope was a member of my father's enemy in WWII europe.

[johnnie]

6. It was required by law

[On the Road]

9. In His Defense,

these things were compulsory. More like mandatory school exercises than joining the Boy Scouts.

My mother's twin married a German physician. He recounted that during the waning days of the war, he and his classmates had been issued rifles and sat of top of the schoolhouse shooting at Allied planes. He was briefly drafted, but got into trouble for listening to British radio and had to hide in the countryside until the allies came. All in all, not a Nazi.

Some of the Hitler "Yutes" were gung-ho. Some weren't. I would like to see more one way or the other before forming an opinion of Rat-Zinger.

[zbdent]

17. You know, that sounds a little like

"I was just following orders . . ."

Sounds like a cop-out.

Think about it. How many times would you, as a teenager, given your right arm just to be with the "in crowd"? To sit there and be judged to be above all the rest of the slime?

[On the Road]

18. None of Those Orders

apparently involved doing anything in and of itself immoral. If they had, that would be the test.

[doublethink]

23. How about ....

this comment from the article 'He was later shipped to Hungary, where he reportedly saw Jews persecuted. -snip- .... kinda bordering on immoral. Peace.

[Placebo]

10. He didn't have a choice.

Give him a break. I don't like the guy, but this is just more baseless "Nazi" labeling by the left of anyone we don't agree with. Disagree with him for his views, sure, but don't go off the deep end here.

[sui generis]

14. exactly - we sound like complete hysterical idiots

99% of everybody who uses the word "Nazi" in a sentence assumes it means the German army.

The Nationalist political party (known for short as the "Nazi" party) set the agenda through a series of brilliant power grabs, playing on people's fear, frustrations, and hunger, control of the media and directing public anger at a straw man.

What does that sound like?

The German army served the Nazi government just as surely as the U.S. army serves the republican administration here. We're being pretty dimwitted to imagine that every German who lived during WWII was pure black hearted evil, any more than we can imagine every soldier in Iraq is responsible for every atrocity we know of and will hear of in the years to come.

[atreides1]

15. Well

He did have a choice, he could have said no, but then it could have cost him his life, maybe. There were German youth that didn't join the Hitler Jugend, and most of them survived the war, so the excuse of "I was forced" is kind of like "I was following orders", in a way.

It's called not taking responsiblity for your actions.

[sui generis]

19. and there are a couple of U.S. soldiers who are AWOL too

that doesn't make everyone else in the army a monster.

[hypocrisyrules]

25. His father was Anti Nazi and reportedly paid a price for that

And there are documented cases of Jews who joined the Hitler Youth as well (obviously not as Jews). And Jews who served in Hitler's army.

A 14 year old can hardly make a decision to join or not join a compulsory youth brigade and hardly be expected to make a conscientious objector decision, heck, many in the DU have been very sympathetic to soldiers in our own military right now being kept beyond their original contracts.

[Boomer]

16. Agreed

I'm most emphatically NOT a supporter of Ratzinger for pope, but I'm willing to give him a pass on this issue.

His participation in Hitler Youth was compulsory, so the worst you can really say about him is that he wasn't willing to die for his principles.

Not many of us are.

I'm much more disturbed by his intensely conservative record in the recent past than I am by his dubious behavior as a teenager in war-ravaged Germany.

[MsTryska]

11. From what I understand - he was also a Nazi Deserter.....

deserted during WWII and was subsequently picked up by the allies as POW.

[ellenfl]

13. we should learn from his mistake. most every german was a

gung-ho nationalist back then . . . sorta like we are supposed to be today. at 14 years of age he believed all the propaganda put out by the bush white house . . . oops, i mean the nazi party. i would hope that his going into the priesthood would mitigate some of that history. besides, he may have joined for the sex.

ellen fl

[Zynx]

20. He didn't have a choice

These are weak grounds to criticize him on. HY was a national institution in Nazi Germany - one of the most successful and repulsive brain washing projects in modern human history.

[doublethink]

22. Anyone read Nuremberg Diary?

by G.M. Gilbert? Just curious .... the correlations of the 'public' just going along with the Nationalistic Hysteria at the time, some people saw through it, some didn't. Some refused to just 'go along' some resisted. Some joined willingly. Anyway the leaders used the same excuses all the way up to the top, when they were tried on war crimes. Interesting.

[fujiyama]

26. I can live

with the fact that he was a member of the Hitler youth a a FOUTEEN year old, but he seems to have done little to make up for his past. Instead of preaching unity among religions he makes absurd comments that Jews will eventually turn to Christ.

He seems like a radical arch conservative, more like Mel Gibson or Scalia than most regular ordinary Catholics.

Basically he seems like a frothing at the mouth fundy.

[Catholic Sensation]

28. DOUBLETHINK TWO DAYS BEHIND THE CURVE

April 20, 2005 - Democratic Underground poster Doublethink posts news that has been rehashed over and over and over again on Democratic Underground since it was first released. As is the case with most people calling Ratzinger a Nazi, any research into circumstances whatsoever was avoided as if it would cause leprosy.

Some of you people are sickening.