Always remember that the OKC murderer was one of "them"

[liberalitch]

He was a product of their ideology.
The carnage he created is the type of thing they like to advocate.
The things that people like Tom Delay say and do made him.... it will make more.

The RWers who were responsible for the Contract ON America and the Gingrich revolution (1994) are DIRECTLY responsible for those murders and should have been investigated as accomplices to mass murder.


THESE PEOPLE ARE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.... Let this day serve as a reminder.

[trotsky]

1. Saint Ronnie and "Government IS the problem"

Really emboldened the nutjobs on the right to actively HATE the government.

[liberalitch]

2. Unless the situation is reversed...

If we hate the government then we're not patriotic

[KaliTracy]

3. sorry "us" "them" discourse doesn't bode too well with me. He was

an extremist -- and may have others he was affiliated with -- but because he identified with one ideology doesn't mean that ALL people who believe in a certain ideology believe that way.

He was an extremist. He was part of a group that used outrageous means, but acted largely on his own (granted, more than he and Nichols were probably involved). We should watch for all forms of extremism, but this does not mean that only one certain group or another are capable and willing of violence of this nature -- or that they are not.

We need to be very careful with our own rhetoric.

[liberalitch]

6. "They" started it...not "us"

[KaliTracy]

14. I still feel that to lump any category of human beings into an "Us/Them"

dichotomy is to created unnecessary bias and stereotypes. Whether or not some Republicans choose to lump all Democrats or liberal into a certain stereotype (with hateful language or not) doesn't mean that all do.

So if a certain Senator calls for violence against judges, we need to let him, and others know in Goverment and media, in no uncertain terms, that his statements are wrong. But other Republican Senators and Representatives will have a hard time listening to a person who calls all Republicans evil, hateful, or whatever because of One (or more) Republican's (member of the same group's) statements.

It is an Individual who happens to be ______________ that is making the statements -- not everyone in the ethnic group/economic group/political group/religious group/, etc.

[BOSSHOG]

7. I guess you'll be "watching" Kentucky this Sunday

when republican and christian leaders (not fringe extremists) leaders gather to fill the airwaves with hateful rhetoric which may lead to violence against judges. I choose not to watch my rhetoric, rather I choose to tell the truth.

[KaliTracy]

12. yes, tell the truth -- and I agree the language from many who are

republican is hateful.

We need to call out those individuals who lie and misinform and incite but I do not believe that all republicans are in this category, any more than any group of people is responsible for what some in that group might have done.

That is the rhetoric I am speaking about -- Not all _____ are _____ (even if someone says All _______ are _________ it doesn't make it true).

Fill in the blanks with any group -- including liberals.

edit:typo

[liberalitch]

16. Everyone should see what is happening in Kentucky on....

sunday.
Our natural rights may depend on the ability of fellow Americans to see what they "have to offer"....
And I do not think that the "fringe extremists" will sit this one out... they'll be plenty of snake handlin' and speakin' in tongues for all.

[lectrobyte]

21. Since all the Pope business, I've been ignoring the news lately...

What is happening in Ky. this Sunday? Thanks.

[JAbuchan08]

8. In terms of his actual actions he was an extremist,

but as far as the philosophy which justified his actions he's right in the middle of the mainstream of the Republican party. And the mainstream of the Republican party doesn't seem to have much of a problem with advocating violence.

[KaliTracy]

13. so with that logic, all mainstream republicans advocate violence? Does

anything else about them (their religion, upbringing, education, economic status, gender, ethnicity) have anything to do with this call for "advocating violence?"

He was more than republican -- in fact, he had pretty much created his own "rules" (much like the Branch Davidians). I would say at one time he might have identified that way, but that he had gone beyond a standard political affiliation. Either on his own, or with others, he created his own party with his own "government" (again, much like the Branch Davidians).

[JAbuchan08]

15. My point is not that all Republicans are extremists, but that by defining

down what constitutes rightist extremism they have made rightist extremism more acceptable. Remember Ann Coulter basically called McVeigh a hero, and she's one of the right's media darlings.
Basically the leaders of the right say "liberals are baby-killers who will take away your guns. They deserve to die. Of course if you actually kill them that's your business leave me out of it."

[liberalitch]

18. No he was not mainstream...

but the venom filled republican propaganda fueled his fire.

On Crystal Night, hitler didn't kick in any heads... but those who believed him did.

BUT.... we would all believe that Hitler was ultimately responsible for the events of that night.... why is this different?

[KaliTracy]

22. the poster in the referenced thread stated

"he's right in the middle of the mainstream of the Republican party."

which I took issue with, as well as with putting all Republicans in a category of hate and violence.

I'm not sure I get your above reference -- if someone goes on trial because they believe that their "leader" told them to fight and kill -- they still get in trouble if they are caught, do they not? Each individual is responsible for the choices that he/she makes -- whether or not they are acting on their own, or believe that they are following the "true path" of a given leader.

Again, if we are going to talk/write to Republican Leaders to encourage them to not endorse those members of their party that use inflammatory language or means, then we shouldn't call them all _____________ (fill in your word of choice).

[BOSSHOG]

4. And how many lunatics will be inspired

by the hate fest planned for this Sunday in Kentucky, when zealots and republicans join forces to "hold judges accountable" and have them "removed" from office? Recall in the 90's how the right wing radio hate machine blathered on about "down-sizing" the federal government and what did mcveigh do? And recall how the right wing radio haters threw up their collecive hands and screamed loudly that they were not responsible for inspiring mcveigh. I strongly urge anyone who has a republican representative or Senator to contact them now and tell them who will be blamed if the hate fest results in blood shed.

Conservatives are domestic enemies of the constitution. That is undeniable. Because they do not want segments of society to have any constitutional liberties.

[mopaul]

5. malitia groups got a lot of press at the time, & even before congress

then they all faded back into the woods and they are still there.

bombing people is their ultimate expression of their poisonous anger, and their ultimate religious expression.

[DinahMoeHum]

9. He was also a Gulf War veteran (Bush I)

G*d know how many potential Tim McVeighs and John Muhammads are returning from Iraq these days.

:nuke:

[paparush]

10. McVeigh and the 1st Gulf War

Didn't McVeigh blame much of his angst on his service during the first Gulf War? What lunatic fallout can we expect to see from our current tyrrany in Iraq?

[mopaul]

11. timmy was norman schwarzkopf's body guard, no shit

and tried and failed to get into the navy seals. he was a top notch soldier till he lost his fucking mind.

[lectrobyte]

17. Us? Them? He was insane, and a killer.

Not fair to blame the Republicans for his actions.

[liberalitch]

19. I am sure he was an unintentional by-product of their hatred...

But none-the-less.

It's like time travel... careful where you step!

[underpants]

20. Yes they were

:kick: