I'm really sick of Democrats who draw the line at where

[Cleita]

and whom should benefit from liberal values. :rant:

These last weeks of racial rhetoric has really separated the DUers who stand for liberal values for everyone from the ones who draw the line at their crowd and no one else.

The last time I read such hateful language was on another bulletin board where I went one on one with a German immigrant who as it turns out was an ex-Nazi from WWII who managed to get into this country anyway.

What he said about Latino Americans and Black Americans was the most vicious attacks I had seen anywhere even to date. Yet, I am finding echos of it here on DU. Yet, god forbid you call a wheat farmer from North Dakota, who probably voted for Bush, a hayseed and all the injured white people get all upset.

I mean a third of you people, who consider yourselves so liberal, are so racist and sexist, and you can't even see it when it's pointed out to you. You are people whom I can see eye to eye about most issues, yet I cringe every time you insult us and can't even see it.

[autorank]

1. Cleita, some references please or explain the positions you see here

that are so offensive. :shrug:

[Cleita]

4. I am only a third of the way through NSMA's thread

and am doing what I can to pick them out to make a post on them. However, I have been very sick and am suffering from blurred vision right now so I can't put it up. But, I know those who have read these threads know what I am speaking about.

However, one that was really insulting was from a DUer who claimed a dark person who could be Mexican whipped his penis out in front of her thirteen year old daughter to piss. This was so insulting on so many levels. She assumed this person was a Latino and painted all Latinos as doing just this sort of thing. This speaks of what we are up against.

Yet, I can't call a wheat farmer from North Dakota a hayseed. Why is this insulting to all white people. Why is it different than being called a beaner?

[autorank]

10. There are a lot of non DUers on this forum. They come in waves or nest.

Also, post the link. Still have no point of reference. I'd bet some serious money, lets say a Franklin, that the message you reference is not from a real DUer.

[Cleita]

13. The link is on my post #11 n/t

[WLKjr]

2. someone pissed in your wheaties didn't they?

"It don't mean nothin', not a god damn thing."


I agree with what you have to say though, it does get ridiculous at times.

[politicaholic]

3. You need to take a breath...

You gave no direct context to accusing 1/3 of the population of this site of racism and sexism. That is a little brash don't you think?

It sounds like you got duped by a person claiming to be a nazi. I doubt a racist 85 year old german speaking ex nazi would be chatting away on a bulletin board.

"yet I cringe every time you insult us" --Who is us?

[Cleita]

5. Us, is anybody whose ancestry is south of the border.

[Paul Dlugokencky]

6. Please cite somethin'!

Cleita,

Can you repeat the "echoes" you mention, where and when these can be found on DU? If you are going to point it out, point it out.

[Cleita]

11. Here's one of the links

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3434922

If you don't find a lot of this insulting then I don't know. There are other threads to but I would have to do a search and I'm not up to it.

[barb162]

53. the only insults I saw on that thread were by the pro-open border

posters and they were flinging the insults like crazy

[Solly Mack]

7. Amazing init?

Point out an obvious racial slur and people tell you to not be "PC"....but these same people will rant and rave about something they feel is an offense to them.

Fact is, stereotypes and slurs come in all forms and are directed at all kinds of people. It's not wise to promote any of them. It demeans all of us.

But it truly is those people who will allow a racial slur against a non-white or sexist comment against a woman to pass by unnoticed ( or worse still, defend it), that take the most offense to words like "hayseed."

and they never once make the connection...

on edit: and goodness knows if you ever point out just how racist and sexist those attitudes are, my my my...they get all indignant. Not me. Never me. It couldn't possibly be me.

The fact that people don't notice just how racist and sexist a comment is, just proves your point all the more. They either have never thought about the context of a stereotype and why it is a stereotype...or they agree with it and see nothing wrong with it.

[cprise]

19. The real problem here is

...that too many people cannot (or refuse to) tell the difference between PC and RESPECT.

Simple respect that anyone else would want in return.

Complaints about "PC" are often a cop-out to avoid being considerate.

[Solly Mack]

28. That's true enough

people do use complaints of PC to hide behind in order to spout their prejudices.

It goes beyond not having simple respect for others....the lack of simple respect is based in something....quite often bigotry.

[Cleita]

33. Thank you.

You seem to be among the few who get it.

[New Dealer]

8. Maybe Cleita's implying that 1/3 of us are Freepers

Other than that, it's rather harsh to say 1/3 of us are racists.

[B Calm]

9. Everyone, including youself are fighting racists thoughts. When

you admit to that, you'll be on your way to being a more moral person.

[bettyellen]

12. 1/3 of us are racist? what got into you to say that?

one post about a person pissing. and that one sounded demented. probably just a disrupter, you think?
calm down, you are really off base here.

[Cleita]

14. No, not a disruptor, but a person who

has been here for more than 1,000 posts and who generally thinks like a Democrat except on the issue of people darker than her. Another one who posts regularly here said that only English speaking people should apply for government assistance.

[fudge stripe cookays]

25. Just because a person....

has 1000 posts or more does not preclude them from being a freeper. It just means they blend REALLY well. They've bragged of even getting moderator spots here.

Don't make blanket judgements about us. It's no better than what you claim WE'RE doing.

Pot? Meet kettle.
FSC

[Cleita]

32. Oh so it's you and us, is it?

I thought we were all DUers, but apparently some DUers are more equal than others.

[bettyellen]

27. i noticed a lot of deleted posts, but honestly i did read some offensive

things you wrote. promoting an open border policy for some americans in one direction only is pretty darned radical, too. mentioning nazis and 1/3 of us are racist was pretty inflammatory on your part as well.
i do think some people who want immigration policies enforced are motivated by economic reasons, and some are just saying it's the law- and policy should be where the activism occurs, not this pseudo-vigilantism.
to brand everyone who disagrees with your own proposal to throw open the borders a racist is unfair. i don't support what the minutemen doing, and i think you're right the minutemen are motivated by ignorance and bigotry for the most part. but i do think they have to be judged by the law, and hate-thought is not a crime. i am not here to defend the people you cited above. i have no idea of the specifics of why you say that one woman is racist, you give no details. but, going by your OP, 1/3 of us are racist, so i have to put it in the context that you are just as guilty, at the moment, of painting people with a broad and insulting brush. i know you fell insulted, but your reaction was inappropriate and overblown. you owe a lot of people here an apology.

[Cleita]

31. Well, when I get some apologies, I might reciprocate.

Really hurts doesn't it to get the tables turned on you, doesn't it? Time like all of you know what it feels like on this side.

[bettyellen]

37. you might try being less spiteful, and arguing your points with reason

instead of stooping to name calling. and no it doesn't hurt me, i know myself a helluva lot better than you ever will.
i advised the apology for your own sake, dear. you lashed out big time because one or two hurt you. i thought you might want to salvage a shred of dignity, but you prefer to be bitter...so never mind, no skin off my nose.

[Cleita]

40. Really? And you thnk arguing points with reason

really works? It only works when those you are arguing with agree with you. I think it's time to point to that very big elephant in the living room instead of covering it with a tablecloth and putting flowers on it. The fact that so many have felt insulted by my post proves my point.

Oh, I have plenty of dignity. I don't have to stoop to sarcasm to salvage mine.

[BillZBubb]

15. One third here racist and sexist?

I don't buy it. Are there some? Sure, that's life. They exist in society so, you'll find a few here.

But one third is a little hyperbolic from my observations.

Calm down, get a thicker skin, and use you intellect to mock the troglodytes. Who knows, you'll probably smoke out a freeper or two. That's always satisfying!

[autorank]

16. OK, I read 1/2 of that thread out of concern for your pique.

I saw virtually no Latino/Latina bashing. I'm not Latino but I'm highly sympathetic, in fact I tout Pocho.Com every now and then because I love it and a friend of mind is their equivalent of "BouncyBall." At any rate, the main bigotry was against a Texas rancher but both sides made up. I think, at least on this one, you're wrong and I think that the 'one third' claim is really over the top. Just didn't see it.

Now, if you mean people are bigoted who believe that illegal immigration is a violation of the law (which it is) and should be regulated, then I have to say, that's incorrect. Illegal immigration is a cruel hoax on those coming over the border and everybody here except those who benefit from 'off the books' cheap labor (without benefits, labor rights, etc.).

I was a supporter of Cesar Chavez and his union efforts for farm workers. As this issue emerges, I often wonder where he would have come down on this issue. The illegal immigrants are a union killer for sure.

Now that's an interesting topic. Relax, this place is NOT crawling with bigots.

[Cleita]

17. There were two other threads also at the same

time. Both were locked because they were so inflammatory. I can't serach for them now. And you are wrong about the illegal immigrants being union killers. They have to be enrolled in the union like all other workers to stop this.

[autorank]

21. The fact that they're not enrolled makes the union killers.

Are you serious about this. They are totally undocumented, hence union membership is not an option. What are you talking about. This is one of the key issues.

[bettyellen]

29. i thought a lot of people made that clear on the thread that it's economic

issues complicating this for this country. somehow this was all ignored in favor of painting people as nazis racists. sheesh.
i am sorry about our country's ugly colonial facist past (and present), but despite that, can we have a rational policy discussion instead of all this name calling?

[Cleita]

36. The teamsters have enrolled the undocumented before.

There was even a post on it recently here on DU that sank really fast because white people don't want to hear about it.

[bettyellen]

38. okay, put down the broad brush.

and stop telling me about white people, okay. that is bigoted.

[autorank]

39. Examine your phrase: "...white people don't want to hear about it."

I'm having trouble taking this thread seriously. You've got a beef but no links. Then there's a link to a thread that was hijacked but no further reference. Now you're making the type of racially categorical remark that you're decrying in the threads that either don't show those remarks or the unnamed threads we can't examine. I'm just sayin' :shrug:

[JanMichael]

18. Guilty Conservatives.

At least that's what I call them. Some call them Liberals or Democrats but the fact is that they're just guilty conservatives. They love their over consumption and are blissfully unaware of their benefits of institutional racism in America. They'll vote Dem, most of the time, and hem and haw over things like Poverty and healthcare but rarely do anything about it or are willing to sacrifice a hair on their wittle heads.

Oh well...

[bobthedrummer]

20. It has been suggested that Democrats court "guys in pick-up trucks with

Confederate flags", many of whom are probably felons and without the right to vote anyway.:silly:

So how does a liberal/progressive deal with that long range goal?
I'd rather take my chances on returning to honest elections, not stolen ones.

It's class more than anything else, and we've all heard that we are a classless society since the day we were born in America. Only commie terrorists talk about class in America, right?

:banghead:

[autorank]

22. I agree, race gets in the way of class awareness. In fact, some

even say that race is used deliberately to keep people's minds off of common class interests. Hmmm....

[bobthedrummer]

23. Yep, there are "the haves" and "the have nots" regardless of anything

else-not race, not ethnicity, not gender, not religion, there is the reality of class.

[mmonk]

24. I'm not sure where

the estimate of a third came from but I'm sure racist comments are tolerated too much everywhere. Unfortunately, its been in this culture too long. Lack of respect steals one's soul. America is in bad need of sensitivity training.

[autorank]

41. The estimate of "one third" of DUers being racist is TOTALLY BOGUS!

After a number of requests the initial poster, Cleita, provided a thread that was mostly about vegans bitching at a Texas DUer who owns a hunting preserve. They argued then decided to get together and have a beer because they both love nature. Perfect.

When askedk for other threads Cleita said "There are other threads to but I would have to do a search and I'm not up to it." How convenient, as the Church Lady says. Odd, don't you think.

Now WaltStarr has joined us. Watch the fur fly.

[Cleita]

42. You wait and see.

When my head stops feeling like someone is pounding nails in it, I have started a list of every racist remark every DUer has said in the last three weeks. Unfortunately, some of the better ones got deleted, but there is still a melange of bigotry waiting to be posted as soon as I can see well enough to start copying and pasting.

I will not, of course, post names, but you will know who you are.

[autorank]

43. Why not names. Without the screen shot of the message, the list

is meaningless. This is about trolls and freepers. BTW, what's with your remark up thread about "white people." Will you include that?

[Cleita]

44. Why not include my remark? It goes to show how you guys

react when the table are turned. Names are against the rules or don't you know that? However, I was going to compare the remarks to those that have been said about other ethnic minorities over the history of the USA. The bigoted remarks never change. They are just directed against different scapegoats and it's really disgusting to find the same old meme on DU.

[autorank]

45. OK, I'll look forward to it. I LOVE YOUR BLOG!!!!! IT ROCKS!!!

I'm a little defensive about DU, well a lot so maybe I'm not looking with a critical eye. I'm also one of those few people without ethnic consciousness...adopted, I didn't know my ethnic origin until I was 25 or so (Bhutanese, no less, just kidding). I didn't even have "white" consciousness. It gives me an interesting perspective on life. After all, even though I know the ethnic makeup of the bio-units, there is no genetic transmission so, hey, I'm free. Sorry for the skepticism.
:hi:

[sendero]

26. Something to consider..

.... not all Republicans are racists and not all Democrats are non-racists.

[Cleita]

34. True.

Racist is sort of a strong word here. I think it's that people who don't know they are being racist get all huffy when it is shown to them that they are being bigoted and threads get alerted on and deleted more often for white bigotry than brown bigotry.

[Cleita]

35. Dupe

[Walt Starr]

30. I'm sick of Democrats who don;t believe in treating criminals

the way criminals need to be treated! JAIL!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

47. I liked the suggestion on the other thread:

follow the guys who come around with pickup trucks to hire the illegal immigrants who gather at certain spots in every major city.

Fine them within an inch of their lives.

I place much more blame on the hypocritical creeps who hire illegal immigrants (so that they don't even have to pay our miserable minimum wage) and make them sleep in metal storage sheds than I do on the people whose lives back home are so wretched that working for $3 an hour and sleeping in a storage shed sounds like something to risk your life for.

I spent nine years living in rural Oregon, and I saw the racism directed at Latinos there, including those who were legal. The major unofficial traffic offense wasn't "driving while black," it was "driving while Hispanic." The prejudice against Latinos was so bad that some of the teens who didn't "look Mexican" registered in school under fake names or billed themselves as Native Americans (which most Mexicans and Central Americans do have in their ancestry, but they were hoping to pass as Oregon Indians).

One of my least favorite students (for various reasons) applied to go on the Japan Exchange Program, and one of the other professors interviewing her noticed that she had Spanish on her high school transcript and asked her why she wasn't applying to go to Costa Rica, which had too few applicants that year.

"Oh, I can't stand Hispanics," she said unashamedly. She did not know that the other professor's wife was Mexican-American, so she went on, "I worked in a 7/11 last summer, and they always came in in bunches, jabbering in Spanish. It made me sick."

The other professor just stared at her for a long time and finally said, barely keeping control, "I'd like to talk to you some time about your attitude toward Hispanics."

We didn't send her to Japan. She quit school at the end of the year and joined the Marines. I'm the least militaristic person around, but the thought of that young woman, who had smirked her way through my class and in general acted like a spoiled brat, going through boot camp, preferably with a Latino drill instructor, was very satisfying.

[Zorra]

46. Just because a Democrat/liberal is against immigration does not make them

a racist.

Personally, I am against all immigration at this time, legal or illegal, from any country.

Our economy is shot and it is going further down the tubes, and the American worker does not need any more competition in the labor market. Too many jobs have been outsourced and everyone that comes to this country and takes a job here, legally or illegally, further weakens the economic position and bargaining power of labor.

And this is exactly what Bush and the corporate republicans want. This is why Bush has continued to promote the outsourcing of jobs, has continually denied funding for the Border Patrol, and is right now even suggesting raising the retirement age.

He wants to flood the labor market, make the worker powerless, and give corporations license to crush the American worker under their jackbooted heels.

I will grant you that most of the republicans that are against undocumented workers entering the US illegally are probably racists. The very basis of the republican party agenda is anti-labor, so they can't really justify denouncing undocumented workers out of a jobs/labor competition concern, although there really are some other legitimate reasons to be concerned about undocumented persons entering the US undetected.

But support for, and protection of, the American worker is a long standing Democratic tradition, and in the coming years the American worker is going to need all the protection that s/he can get. Labor is under very heavy assault from Bush and the republicans right now and has been for some time, and they are going to try to break the power of the American worker forever before Bush leaves the WH.

But in reality, the whole immigration argument is masturbatory and moot. As long as Bush is in the WH and/or the republicans control Congress, no serious effort will be made to stem the flow of non-US citizen laborers into this country. If anything, this flow is going to increase steadily and substantially.

[barb162]

52. bravo

[WildEyedLiberal]

54. Amen

Workers are in big trouble; this is a culmination of what Reagan began. God help us.

[nonconformist]

48. Calling 1/3 of DU racist and sexist is ironically insulting

Maybe that was the intent, but I think it's pretty amazing that you can say 1/3 of DU are bigots based on your experiences with a few disruptors. Isn't that painting with a rather large brush - the trademark of bigotry?

That said, if someone is using racial slurs or being highly offensive you should hit Alert on them, definitely.

However, since I haven't seen specific quotes yet of what you deemed racist, I'd like to point out that recognizing that illegal immigration is a problem does not make one racist. I would be very offended if someone called me a racist simply because I disagreed with them on the issue. While I am Italian/Irish/Cherokee, my stepfather (who has been my father since I was a young child) is Hispanic and so are my blood brother and sister. If someone implied I was prejudiced (a more correct term than racist, since Latinos are an ethnicity, not a race) against Mexicans I would be infuriated.

I'm sick and tired of people labeling others as racist on a whim - it is a very powerful and insulting term that shouldn't be thrown around lightly. I think those that do so should stop and have a moment of self reflection and explore their own prejudices.

[Pow_Wow]

49. why don't you all just leave?

You have no idea how nice it was before you got here. They say a squirrel could travel from Manhattan Island to the Mississippi River without touching the ground.

of course I'm kidding, just trying to make a point
try stepping out of that box for a moment

[autorank]

56. Excellent,.

You like squirrels? Check out "Squirrel Overload" on this page:

http://www.elftrance.com/multimedia.htm

[Trajan]

50. I agree that many of those posts are appallingly xenophobic ...

Yet: I do not see 1/3 of DUers posting there ...

Perhaps ... 0.0033 % of DUers .... not 33 % ....

It is unfair to use such a broad brush in your condemnations if such a slim percentage of members actually participated ....

[UdoKier]

51. I also object to some of the rhetoric that was used, like "3rd worlder"...

... but that being said, I also despise the insinuation by the "open border" crowd that anyone who wants to deport illegals and protect American wage levels is by default "a racist". It's pretty hateful and dishonest, to boot.

[The Revolution]

55. So why are you allowed to use slurs?

"Maybe he's okay with the hayseeds in Middle America whom he appeals to, but they really shouldn't play him on the coasts"

You said this, did you not? (speaking of Ed Shultz). It's pretty damn clear you think of yourself as superior just because of where you live. How is that any different than someone thinking they're superior because of the color of their skin?

I've done nothing to you, but you attack me, my family, my friends, and my neighbors. Of course I'm going to be offended. If someone was using racial slurs, why don't go after them instead of attacking a whole region of the country?

Because a few people want to be assholes, that gives you the freedom to attack anyone you wish? If someone lives in North Dakota, then it's okay to call them stupid? The only one I see "drawing the line at where and whom should benefit from liberal values" is you.

[Moderator]

57. Locking.