why do heterosexuals act like gay people are going to rape them?

[jdj]

And I'm not talking conservatives, I'm talking LIBERAL heterosexuals here.

I am about fed up with it. I have a woman in one of my classes who is an outspoken liberal and I have tried many times to start conversations with her about our common views, which she declares loudly to everyone else. I noticed after a few weeks that anytime I would talk to her two of the other women in class would kind of smirk, but I thought I was just being paranoid, but I couldn't figure out why she would not want a liberal ally in the class. Then she announced a couple of times for no reason that she is "not gay". I have a rainbow flag on the back of my car that is faded out, but I never thought anyone would notice or make anything of it. However, last week these women were talking about tv shows and a couple of times they mentioned "gay guys" and each time they looked at me and dropped their voices as if I might be offended. That's when it hit me. I have been through this so many times with straight women who should know better that I can't count it, including the loss of a friendship one time just because I casually asked a friend on the phone if she was dating anyone. She freaked out and emphatically stated that there weren't any MEN she was interested in and then cut off the conversation and subsequently all contact with me.

I want to make this very clear (and I also want to get it off my chest). I prefer my partners to be gay, which is the case with most gay people. I don't want you if you are straight. I am not going to come onto you. I am not going to try to take you away from your huzbin, and I am not going to try to rape you. I am not desperate. All gay women are not as repulsive as you apparently seem to believe, which leads to fact of life #2, that as straight women you are not as beautiful/irresistible/ whatever as you seem to think. I am using the 2nd person here because I have had this happen to me so many times from otherswise "progressive" straight woment that it is @#%$ nauseating, and I am fed up.

[bullimiami]

1. wishful thinking?

[jdj]

2. i can't figure out if it's conceit or projection

but it sure is godawful hurtful and offensive.

I never thought that one of the downsides of coming out of the closet would be that I get treated as a sexual predator by people who should know better. I'd much rather have the out and out contempt of fundies any day.

[Lindacooks]

45. I think it's both.

Whenever I run into a homophobic person who whines about it, I always say 'What are you afraid of? You're NOT that good looking.'

[FreedomAngel82]

4. Maybe

Or they're just uncomfortable. :shrug: It doesn't bother me but I get uncomfortable around anybody. Heh heh. Only thing I can think of.

[ruggerson]

104. My experience

is that really good looking straight guys are totally comfortable with themselves and enjoy having gay friends and when someone comes on to them (who doesn't know they're straight) they laught it off and take it as a compliment. Totally secure in their own masculinity.

Ugly straight guys are convinced that gay guys are out to have sex with them. What they don't realize is that generally the gay guy is a muscle boy with ripped abs looking for another muscle boy with ripped abs, and not into a fat, beer drinking, limited intelligence Freeper type. The gay dude would rather walk on hot coals than be forced into sex with the ugly Freeper type. The ugly straight guy is usually a homophobe, and I think it stems from his insecurity about how he looks and about his attractiveness to women and thus about sexuality in general.

I have never known a good looking straight guy who is a homophobe. Never.

For what it's worth.

There you have it.

[ruggerson]

And, yes, I'm generalizing

;)

[jdj]

170. LOL.

:hi:

[tuvor]

3. Oh, please.

Put away the broad brush.

[jdj]

5. get your paint off of me and I will, baby.

if your straight then you don't know, and if you are gay and haven't had this happen, then you are just not paying attention.

[tuvor]

10. So if I started a post off with "Why do homosexuals act like..."

You wouldn't be annoyed? :eyes:

"Get my paint off you"? I don't know what you're trying to say.

I'm straight, I've been given an unexpected wet one in a gay bar, and I've got gay friends who flirt with me, and I haven't behaved the way you claim.

Maybe some of us hets are actually comfortable around homosexuals. I hope that's all right with you.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tuvor]

27. If you had chosen better words, I wouldn't even have posted.

I'm sorry you're having a shitty day, but I'll tell anyone when I think they've stepped over the line in a public forum.

The title of your original post does just that. I can't say "Why do homosexuals act like..." without expecting some negative feedback, and rightfully so. It's no different for anyone else who uses a stereotype.

I hope you have a better day tomorrow. You don't deserve what you went through.

[jdj]

31. thanks for the well wishes.

I didn't say all heterosexuals, I just said heterosexuals.

I wouldn't be offended by the post you speculated on, because homosexual is not a dirty word and a question like that asked in earnest can only lead to greater discussion, which is almost always a good thing.

I haven't had a shitty day, I've come to another shitty realization that once again someone is rejecting my friendship out of unfounded fear. It's heartbreaking really, but pity her for what she is missing.

[readmoreoften]

180. WHY DO MOST MANY SOME HETEROSEXUAL WOMEN

BUT NOT TUVOR act like gay women are interested in them when they are trying to be friends?

How's that?

So the next time straight people (oh, I'm sorry CERTAIN STRAIGHT INDIVIDUAL/s I wouldn't want to 'lump' you all together) post questions to gay people, should we jump down their throats?

I mean, considering the BILLION PLUS heterosexual women in the world, it would be safe to assume that JDJ was just generalizing to create enough space in the frickin subject line.

:edited for some weird HTML thing that happened...

[ScreamingMeemie]

55. Erm...you stirred this pot, sweetie.

:hi:

[foreigncorrespondent]

118. Sooooo...

...it is all fine and dandy for heterosexuals to lumber gay people into the same boat, but not okay when the tables are turned?

[jdj]

134. yeah, what she said!

sorry, that's the best I could come up with.

[foreigncorrespondent]

143. LOL!

No worries!

I know exactly what it is you are talking about in your OP. And I would like to also state that not once in your OP did I see you state all heterosexuals.

Someone really needs to lighten up a tad. Maybe he is the one having the really bad day? :shrug:

[donco6]

61. There's a good tool here at DU

It's called Ignore.

Some people aren't worth bothering with, jdj. Your post was fine.

[donheld]

28. jdj, your brush is only 1 bristle too wide

Keep on painting!

[Bigmack]

6. Inflated sense of self...

... shit, I was an altar boy for years, and no priest ever made a pass at me.

When I was a younger man, every male on our faculty got the come-on from one of the young schoolmarms. I never got a glance.

My wife loves me, tho.

I've finally come to the conclusion that I'm handsome-deprived. Straights need to understand they might just not be the woodie-inducing hunk they think they are.

.

[jdj]

9. isn't it amazing?

It is really something, it makes you just want to scream.

I worked with a little 20 year old waitress once who seemed to be one of the only heterosexuals to fully have a grasp on this. She told me she was working with some folks once who were making comments like this about someone whom they thought was gay, and she told them "#1, you just don't know, and #2 if they are gay what makes you think they want your bucktooth, hairy ass anyway?" The memory of that conversation always makes me smile, because this young woman was extremely attractive and yet she had none of the ego that so many of these women have. It galls me everytime, I just want to say, 'don't flatter yourself'.

[Sparkle]

7. Well, I wouldn't mind a certain gay male to rape me.:-)

I know, rape isn't someting to kid about, but I'm kidding. I would reveal the name but he isn't liked much here on DU.

[donco6]

62. Saddam? Rumsfeld?

Who? Who? Inquiring minds have to KNOW.

[jdj]

64. I think we've all seen the goods on this one, eh?

how does it go, "eight inches, cut"...

[donco6]

72. oh, HIM!

Ha! Yeah, that probably wouldn't go over well.

[Catherine Vincent]

133. LOL! I was goanna guess that white house reporter also.

:-)

[Solly Mack]

8. Because they're idiots

A simple and no real help answer, but true.

They are idiots. Full of fear...

Those same people you're describing do the exact same thing to straight women that they've decided "must be" lesbian (based on some ignorant and bigoted stereotype they've embraced as fact). They "talk loud" to let you know they are straight. I'm like, "Don't flatter yourself, sweetie."

I avoid those types once I come across them.

I also smile (smirk, really) with sardonic amusement at those who feel they must preface any support of the LGBT community with "I'm not gay but..."

Who says you hafta to qualify your sexuality (by using the preface) to support human rights?

edit: to clarify a point.

[jdj]

14. yep, I'm always taken aback.

I should plaster a picture of my ex-girlfriend to my forehead and maybe that would take the wind out of their paranoia. She was perfect, in the gym everyday, tan, 8-10% body fat (yes, a freak of nature, but in a good way), and most importantly, GAY.

If these bitches knew what an utter and complete pain in the ass it is to be with someone who is just coming out and having to deal with all that drama and trauma and identity crisis bullshit, they would pee their pants at how ridiculous it is that someone would want to go to the trouble of converting them (and I'll put this in for spite, risk getting all those straight people diseases they may be carrying).

Oh, wait, I hear a chorus...

"Hey you straight girl you think I wanna know ya
you got lesbophobia
you're a walking sperm receptacle, a sex refuse,
'bout as safe as a snake-bite
your ass is too wide
you ain't wearin' leather
you don't have to lose no sleep about us
bein together

you got lesbophobia
got a hard case of homo-paranoia
that's all..."

That's a rough Tribe 8 song, but at times like these I can certainly understand the sentiment behind it.

[Solly Mack]

18. Anger can speak powerful truth

those lyrics do just that

In this world, it's hard enough being "different" (but only different because the rules are set up to oppress)without these damned fools projecting their own insecurities and, dare I say, fantasies on to others. Women can be equally as "homophobic" as men. They too can fear their own feelings and desires, then take it out on others with anger and hatred.

[Kali]

11. hmm interesting

I'm straight but I act kind of butch I guess and I have been hit on but I don't take it badly or let it stop a conversation or friendship from happening. Actually I think I know what you are talking about now that I think about it because straight women act that way to me too! I always got along with the guys better.

Interesting.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

12. Just tell 'em

"Not to worry, being gay isn't contagious" :)

[benevolent dictator]

13. I have to admit...

...that I've liked straight girls in the past, but luckily for me they all took it the same way they did whenever a guy they didn't like back liked them. It really is the same thing. Just because they're straight doesn't mean they're not going to be someone I'm attracted too, but if they aren't interested, they aren't interested, that's all there is too it.

On the other hand, I HAVE had plenty of people I'm not very good friends with anyway get all uncomfortable around me or emphasize how straight they are just a little too much. It really is annoying, especially when I've never expressed any kind of interest in them and don't even know them that well. I just want to tell them, "Hey look, I might be a lesbian but that doesn't mean I'm going to try to sleep with every girl I meet, OK? Gay does not equal promiscuous."

[DearAbby]

15. I think it is mostly men, the thought of it somehow smacks their

masculinity. Dont dis the penis. Being a female, the thought of another woman attracted to me, does not really bother me. Some would be flattered, and politely say "no thank you."

Men on the otherhand you are somehow insulting the macho man. maybe it is wishful thinking. :think:

[bigwillq]

16. Not all heteros are like that--

If the hetero people you surround yourself with are like that, then I suggest you stop hanging around with them. It's their problem, not yours but if they're acting like that, then I wouldn't want to hang around with them.

Find some mature, open-minded people, who happen to be hetero. They are out there. You might need to keep searching.

[jdj]

20. I'm in class with them. I have no choice.

Jesus H. Christ.

clueless.

I wouldn't willfully surround myself with hetero assholes. But this liberal hetero asshole snuck up on me, precisely because she's a liberal. I expected someone, you know, liberal and all. Times like these I feel like it really is all about the votes, which I guess is what Sharpton meant when he talked about riding the donkey, in a utilitarian sense.

[bigwillq]

26. Don't talk to her anymore!

But your subject makes it seem like ALL heteros are like this. I know that if they're in your class, there may be nothing you can do-you might have to interact with them.

[jdj]

32. nope, I absolutely will back her up on any and all arguments in class.

because I'm cool like that, and this is a stinking repuke town and she needs reinforcements. She is one of the most outspoken liberals I have ever met, and I have a tremendous amount of respect for her.

That's why in this particular instance I am finding this scenario quite painful. But it's her call. I'm not contagious or inappropriate, and I'm quite a nice person, but oh well...her loss.

[bigwillq]

51. How liberal can she be

if she's still shaky with dealing with gay people?:shrug:

[jdj]

53. oh honey,

you'd really be impressed. As hurt as I am, i am awed by her bravery in this town. She declared one day that "I am a liberal" in this class of freepers, and then calls her husband for some literature on how to define liberalism because no one understands what she means by it.

She declares every other day how much she hates Walmart, and Bush, and LOUDLY. She will take any freeper and their empty arguments and make swiss cheese out of them.

I think that she is afraid people will think SHE is gay, because she's large and kick-boxes and is a loud, brash New Jersey girl in a town full of soft-spoken, malicious southern belles. Maybe the risk of being thought of as different in just one more way is more than she can take, I don't know.

I'm feeling better about it now thanks to everyone's comments, though, earlier I was in tears. Sometimes it gets to you.

[bigwillq]

59. Well I am glad that she stands up for progressive issues

But she shouldn't feel so self-conscious or be reserved about her sexual perference. Who cares if they think she's gay. If she knows she's not then that's all that matters.

[kweerwolf]

138. Here's the crux of the issue ...

"I think that she is afraid people will think SHE is gay"

Back in the '70s when the modern gay liberation movement was just getting started, it was difficult to gain any sort of support from straights. Even whites who had marched for civil rights were reluctant to get involved with gay issues. Why? Because no matter how much they associated with blacks, the quality that identifies blacks - their "blackness" - doesn't rub off.

Gays, on the other hand, could look just like "normal people" so by championing gay rights, straights ran the risk of being perceived as gay.

Many straight liberals have evolved beyond the point of worrying that someone might think they are gay if they have gay friends or stand up for gay issues. But some have not. Your classmate, unfortunately, is in the latter category.

[readmoreoften]

182. I would stop supporting her regardless.

This is what many of us do. Beat me, make fun of me, disregard my needs as a human being, but I'll still support you because you're progressive. Show her that the consequences of homophobia is that you lose your base. She needs to know she's behaving hypocritically.

Besides, she won't genuinely appreciate any support from you. She'll think you're only backing her up because 'you have the hots for her'.

Thankfully I have 0% interest in heterogirls and they usually realize this because I ignore them. They've got to approach me knowing full on who I am. That's how I avoid all this, personally speaking.

[CornField]

19. If it helps...

I'm quite offended when I go with friends to a gay bar and no one hits on me or asks me to dance. Nevermind that I'm a straight, married woman. Dammit, I need affirmation! LMAO!!

I think there is a misconception in the 'straight community' (is there really such a thing?) that all homosexual people are extremely flagrant and oversexed. Perhaps this stems from all those pornographic movies showing women meeting for the first time in a department store's try-on room and going after each other.

Want to know what I think it is? Whenever a man and a woman get together there is always a chance of pregnancy. Even if birth control is used, there is always a possibility that there could be an unwanted pregnancy. I think many of my straight friends (especially women) are jealous of the fact that homosexuals do not have this concern. (Keep in mind that most in the straight circles aren't too awfully concerned about AIDS and other STDs yet.) I guess the thinking is that if pregnancy was not such a worry, they'd be getting it on much more often... so, why wouldn't homosexuals be much more sexually active?

I have married friends who have been shocked at how their sex drive increased after one partner was steralized and pregnancy was no longer a concern.

Anyway... just kinda talking out loud here.

[jdj]

21. well, I never thought of that angle at all.

And it is an extra burden on the woman to be the gate-keeper or whatever, and have to always be calling foul and calling for protection .

[Bronco69]

22. While you're on the topic, do you mind if I add something us

gay men have to put up with every now and then? A straight woman will hit on us and obviously we're not interested so we try to politely let them know. The next thing you know they are going around telling everyone they see that "he's gay" as if to be saying, "well obviously he's gay, he turned me down. Aren't I the most gorgeous woman to ever walk the planet?" I actually had a straight woman go and tell her boyfriend that I was hitting on her. I was walking out of work one day and he says, "Hey, do you know so and so?" I said, "Yes". He said, "I'm her boyfriend, leave her alone." I said, "I don't know what they fuck you're talking about. I'm gay!" After that the woman wouldn't even look in my direction at work. Some heteros think they're "all that"

[jdj]

29. that is too funny!

"well obviously, he's gay, he turned ME down", LOL.

amazing.

[magnussun]

23. No lesbian advances

I have no problem with gays, unless they are gay women hitting on me. That bothers me, alot. I treat gay women ogling me the same way I treat unwanted men. Their advances are unwelcome. Why should I be more polite to a gay woman than a man?

M

[donco6]

56. I doubt that.

"I treat gay women ogling me the same way I treat unwanted men."

How would you react to a gay woman innocently asking you out?

[Kerrytravelers]

71. I would hope you don't treat anyone impolite for taking note of what

they think is attractive.

[progmom]

165. That's too bad.

I find it's good form to be polite in my response to any polite attention. :shrug:

[readmoreoften]

183. Yeah right, I'm sure they ogle you.

Seriously, I've never met dykes who outwardly, obnoxiously ogle. Unless they're at a strip club and you're a stripper. Then lesbians act like the other patrons, generally.

[readmoreoften]

184. SORRY PROG MOM!

I wasn't talking to you!!! :blush:

[justjones]

24. Perhaps you have run into women who aren't completely comfortable...

in their own heterosexuality? :shrug:

Speaking as a hetero (and I'm only stating my sexual orientation to clarify my point of view....I'm not one of THOSE heteros of which you speak:)), I can only imagine behaving this way if I just might possibly be attracted to women and afraid that one amorous look from a beautiful gay women may open the flood gates to my inner lesbian. That's what I believe is the origin of most homophobic behavior...the fear that one may be gay themselves.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I just hope you realize not all heterosexual women are that way.

[UdoKier]

25. Because most people are bisexual to some degree, and are uncomfortable.

At least that's what I believe. I'm one of those who was right in the middle of the spectrum, and had to do quite a bit of experimenting to be sure I could commit to either gender. I ended up happily married to a beautiful lady, but that doesn't mean I have no bisexual feelings. I'm cool with it because I know I don't have to act on every feeling I have, whether the object is male or female.

But people who who are unable to accept their bisexual part, no matter how small it may be, are made very uncomfortable by anything that stimulates it.

At least that's my theory.

I'm accepting of who I am and am not ashamed in the least. Nothing makes me happier than to see a happy couple in love holding hands or kissing - I really don't care if they are the same gender or not.

I knew that men could exhibit this discomfort around gay men, but I didn't know straight women did it around lesbians.


There are plenty of cool straight people around. Don't let it get you down.

[justjones]

34. Exactly.

I think those who explore the spectrum of their sexuality are the ones who are most secure in homo-, hetero-, or bi-sexuality. Therefore, they wouldn't behave in the manner in which the original poster describes.

But if you have not confronted that part of sexuality, if you encounter a situation that perhaps challenges it, or "stimulates it" as you describe, you become uncomfortable and start exhibiting homophobic behavior. Of course, men are more susceptible to violent homophobia because the way masculinity is defined in our culture....although femininity assuages violence, women can be just as homophobic.

[UdoKier]

152. Wasn't it Kurt Cobain who said...

"Everyone is gay...."

Also agree with your assessment of gender roles. As a kid, I really didn't care much about being macho, but I was sure I was a boy, never really feminine either. I just always felt human, primarily, and still do.


I used to dream of a future where people had no sexual hang-ups, but even the sexual revolution did little to remove them.

[Lars39]

40. You're not alone in thinking that!

I also think sexuality is on a spectrum.
The puritan mindset just doesn't allow a lot of folks to explore their sexuality to figure this out, though.

[Kerrytravelers]

30. If it helps any, I'd be flattered. I always am when someone notices me.

I guess I just really like attention! Just kidding.

Sometimes, even those who are Dems haven't been around many homosexuals before. For example, my Democratic parents were from a small town in KY. Not too many gays there in the 40s&50s. My dad ended up in the Air Force (to avoid being drafted in the Army for Vietnam- long story.) and therefore, spent most of his time with other military guys. Not a lot of gays there, either.

After he retired, and was out in the "real world," his supervisor at work was a lesbian. They got along well. She even showed him her pictures and memorabilia from the Gay Olympics (years ago.) Once at Disneyland, a gay man hit on my father. HE was, at first, taken aback. I just told him he was pretty hot that both women and men took notice.


Anyway, just a little thought I wanted to add. You hang in there!

[Lars39]

33. Sounds like she isn't comfortable with her own sexuality.

Whatever it may be. Or she could be attracted to you and doesn't know how to deal with it.
I've had a tiny sample of being treated as gay just by my looks recently.
My hair is finally growing back after chemo. It's at the stereotypical butch stage right now.
I've had a few women get big eyed and clam up,
and one that started talking about her boyfriend. :shaking head:

[justjones]

37. Congrats on completing treatment!

I hope all is well with your health at this point:).

People are so ignorant (or, ig-nit is more the pronunciation I am looking for). I'm not a cancer survivor, but I had a buzz cut for a couple of years. I found out later that a lot of people thought I was a lesbian. I considered it a complement.:)

[Lars39]

43. Thank you!

So far, so good. :)
I don't mind broadening people's horizons just a bit. :)

[jdj]

38. bless your heart.

I hope all goes well for you.
It's weird how you can learn bizarre stuff from even the most challenging situations.

Let me tell you, my lover for the year of 1997 had cancer and I was STUNNED at the prejudice that she was met with and the way people treated her. It's like if you tell someone you have cancer, suddenly you are...not a person anymore or something. It's so weird, she used to just come home and lay on the bed and cry, just at the stupid and careless things people would say. From that experience I took that if I ever have it I don't know if I will even tell a soul...there's a speculative pregnant silence around you, just like the one there is if people think you are gay and hitting on them.

[Lars39]

47. Thank you!

Yes! ..."a speculative pregnant silence around you...", describes it perfectly.
I learned pretty quick to use humor and face it head on with people, but even that doesn't always work.
Some people just can't get past their own anxieties to interract one on one.

[benevolent dictator]

49. Da Nile ain't just a river in Egypt

Ahh I remember back when I was in denial and whenever I was around the girl I liked I would start talking about this boy... I never really liked him, I just didn't want her to suspect!

Good times... but I'm glad I'm out now.

[JerseygirlCT]

35. I never flatter myself, personally

I would assume that my gay friends and acquaintances would be interested in a partner who shares their orientation... and I don't think I'm so "all that" to overcome that interest!

I think it's a case of a person "wanting" to feel a certain way (progressive, pc even) and still needing to work through those almost instinctual feelings that are still so widely instilled in our society. That fear of gayness thing.

Look, as I said to a friend once, I know who I'm sleeping with for the rest of my life -- why would I care who anyone else is interested in? Hey, if a guy seems attracted to me, I enjoy the attention. Same with a gay woman I would imagine, although I don't think that's ever happened.

Perhaps as this person gets to know you, and gets by seeing you just as "gay person in my class", she'll be more at ease.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WLKjr]

41. you said you would beat him senseless lmao

what kind of "beat" are you talking about????

:rofl:

[skoppa]

39. I completely agree!!

First of all, I personally am not gay but do have a few gay friends. I think that the whole same-sex marriage situation would be fixed if people realized gays are not sex crazy. Why is it that so many people feel that if gays were allowed to get married that marriage would be destroyed? It just really pisses me off that so many people are narrow minded enough not to realize whats so plain and obvious. Let's please take of the blinders folks!!!

[B Calm]

42. My right wing cousin from Oklahoma told me out in San Fran their

are gangs of happily married gay couples roaming the streets and gang raping straight people and turning them into flaming homosexuals..

[donco6]

57. Well, of course!

That's what happened to me! Just like that! One day I'm this straight, married white man with two kids and an SUV, and the next I'm bopping down Castro with my ass hanging out of a pair of black leather chaps! Go figger!

[Kerrytravelers]

74. Hum. I grew up out there. I'll have to look for 'em next time I visit.

[hootinholler]

44. OMG! is *that* what that rainbow means?

:evilgrin:

That's why it's called homophobia. A phobia, an irrational fear. I had it, took me a long time to get over it, but we do sometimes.

-Hoot

[Politicub]

46. It always comes out of nowhere

and - wham! The reality of bigotry knocks you upside the head. I've been out at work, home, to my family, etc. for more than 10 years.

Less than two weeks ago my grandfather passed away. My grandmother wanted me and my partner to be two of his pallbearers. My grandfather knew and loved my parnter.

Well, the funeral was very rural baptist in NC. The preacher during his remarks decided to talk about homoesexuality, and how it ruins a man's name, and Sodomy, and Lot, and Sodom and Gammorah... the whole sad sphiel. My partner was sitting next to me in the front row. I felt like I had been kicked in the stomach. It was like I was less than two inches tall.

Bigotry sometimes rears its head. I didn't let the experience diminish me, although it saddened me very much that my grandfather's funeral was marred by this old bigot.

Having this happen to me, and reading stories like yours, only forment my resolve to keep fighting for full equality for *all* people. There is much work to be done, even among those people whom we thought we could feel safe and accepted.

:hug:

[jdj]

50. I am so sorry that happened, and sorry for your loss.

And I want to think they are ignorant, but the truth is that the preacher probably knew, that closeted asshole.

That is very upsetting to me, and I am sure your grandfather would be appalled.

I remember when I rented this trailer in SC the day I moved in after I had already given the landlord my money and vacated the old place, I pulled onto the street to see a sign in the vacant lot directly across from my trailer that had that quote from the bible about how "even the women...blah blah blah sodomy blah blah whatever."

I couldn't believe it, it was so blatant, the landlord outed me to the whole neighborhood before I even got moved in. But I rented that place for 3 years, and he sure as hell took my money every month.

[napi21]

48. I hope I don't do that, but I must tell you about an experience I had

quite a few years ago. A lady I worked with, and had much in common with, went out to dinner, had a few drinks, talked about how awful management treated all of the employees, and because I was driving, I took her home. I did go in as we continued the conversation, and then suddenly she said, it's late and I'm going to change out of these work clothes. She returned a few minutes later in her nightgown, smiled, came over to me and took my hands in hers. Obviously my reaction was clear because she backed off right away, but I was shocked, and disturbed by the whole thing.

The situation was never discussed and it all went away, but, although we're still friends, I still remember that tense moment.

I hope I never offend gays because they're gay. I most often never even notice. I won't push my orientation on anyone, and I don't want anyone pushing theirs on me either.

[jdj]

52. I can see how that could happen over drinks.

It's kind of funny, though probably not to you, that she was probably so used to being treated with prejudice that she thought that everyone knew and certainly thought that you knew, and thought you were picking up on her signals by coming in her house...I mean, how did you miss the "change into someting more comfortable" line...sorry to say that gays aren't any more original than straights when it comes to stuff like this.

[napi21]

60. Well, I guess I'm just not judgemental. I didn;t know she was gay

and to be honest, I still don't. About 2 years aftet that she got married, had 2 kids, and divorced all within 4 years. She never talks about men...EVER, so I am assuing she doesn't want any relationships with any.

I object to the initial advance. Maybe I would have been more aware if it had been a man whose advances I didn't want, but just because I treated her like a friend doesn't excuse the overt action.

[jdj]

70. I think that it got overt because you missed a whole lot of covert stuff.

probably because you were both drinking. Bless her heart here she is thinking she is sending you mondo signals and you are picking up on them and you agree to take her home and then you don't leave when she lays out the "slip into something more comfortable line" and she thinks she's all the way there and then you freak out. Same old song and dance, crying game redux.

[ScreamingMeemie]

54. Really? I do? Why do all gay people think that we think they're going to

rape us..or, worse yet steal our children? See how nasty that sounds? Pretty much like your post. Generalizations and accusations do more harm than good. I am more worried about my utilities going up than possible rape by a homo or hetero sexual. Sorry to not feed into the fantasy.

Thanks. A little more open mindedness please. And I'd suggest you stop flattering yourself. ;)

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

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[ScreamingMeemie]

67. No I don't think you've touched a nerve. I think you are pretty much

a stereotypical American. End of story. You're no better than those you fight against when you drop to this behavior. Shame on you. You're not doing much to further peace in this country of individuals who should respect each other. :hi:

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

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[ScreamingMeemie]

79. Putting words in my mouth are you? I'm not really wanting to learn

the misguided and stereotypical stuff you'd like to preach...er teach. Sorry, I'm quite comfortable with who I am and what I'm about. Notice lack of vile personal attacks when someone doesn't agree with me.

Your comments are part of the problem that sets our country back from others.


If a former single mom, two job working, now average American makes me spoiled ass...oh well. You've got some anger issues to work on.

My mother taught me to never use the "f" word. Yours? :hi:

[jdj]

82. baby, i'm not preaching or teaching, I'm sharing personal experience.

and it's happened to me way more times than I care to recall.

It's a shame your mother lied to you like that. An honest "fuck you" is a hell of a lot more honorable and decent than the snipe and smile attitude that you sling around.

And you are correct in the sense that I'm angry. Your cluelessness about why would embarass you if you had any damn sense, but that's already an established negative.

[ScreamingMeemie]

88. I also don't assume to know what people are thinking. One, not

clueless. Sorry this has happened to you, but it's not always the way you paint it. I'm pretty confident in my sensibility. Again, note the ability to not disolve into personal attacks. :hi:

[jdj]

93. wow.

I always wondered if I should try to learn better than my foul redneck manners, but if this kind of discourse is the alternative, I'd have to say I much prefer them, both giving and receiving.

[benevolent dictator]

144. I can see her point

I mean, I'm sure WE would jump all over anyone who was like "Why do homosexuals like to date people 20 years younger than tham all the time?" just because the only gay couple they know happen to have a large age difference.

Just because the hets you know act like that doesn't mean they all do, and surely you can see where your post might be misinterpreted to mean "all heterosexual people" instead of just the ones in your specific case.

Blanket statements are in general a bad idea, and it may be your experience, but it isn't everyone. I have liked straight women, and even told them so, and they didn't treat me any differently than they did before I told them. They just treated me the same as they would treat a male friend who they did not have mutual feelings for.

I appreciate you sharing your experience and support your right to do so, it just seems like you could show a little empathy for those hets who aren't like that and see why they might get offended at your implying that they all are.

[jdj]

146. I shall say this very slowly

I

Don't

Care.

there is an old Lea Delaria joke that goes something like " a straight man notices the cameraderie and laid back astmosphere in a lesbian bar he goes to and says, 'wow, it's a shame straight men don't have a place of our own like this to go to..."

and the punchline, delivered pefectly by Ms. Delaria is "You do. It's called THE WORLD."

Get it?

So please don't ask me to babysit the feelings of insecure hets whom I suspect are really just pissed that the aren't the center of attention on this thread but can't admit it to themselves so have just instead attacked me for not personally congratulating every single one of them as an exception and a credit to their race or whatever.

[ScreamingMeemie]

147. I never asked for that.

Thanks. If I "wanted attention" I'd post my own thread.

[benevolent dictator]

148. why don't you listen to yourself for a second?

I'm not asking you "to babysit the feelings of insecure hets" I'm asking you to think about how you would feel if a blanket statment were made about LGBT people like that.

No, you didn't say ALL hets but you also didn't say SOME hets. The thing is I can totally see you being one of the first people to jump on someone for making a statment like "Why do gays want to become teachers so they can recruit children?!" See? didn't say "all gays" so don't get upset about it.

You have no idea how much I hate it when people play the victim, for whatever reason, and pretend like everyone is out to get them when they were just expressing an opinion and trying to make you see how you could have been offensive. No one was attacking you personally, they were just saying, "hey! don't stereotype like that, we're not all that way."

Maybe you don't care that you might have offended some straight people, but you know what? I bet that het doesn't care that she offended you. You get what you give, and you certainly don't seem to give a damn about anyone who's not "family." So what if they're the majority? By saying you think they're just upset that they aren't the center of attention that's just stereotyping the same way that het was doing to you, and it isn't right in either case.

[jdj]

151. hmmm, how would I feel?

how would I feel?

IF that ever happened...

hmmm, yes, IF that ever happens

because it never REALLY does you see

we make it up, all of it, that part too...

[benevolent dictator]

153. fair enough, you KNOW how it feels

so WHY do you go around and do the same thing to other people that you KNOW offends you?

[jdj]

156. Like I said before, us queers can't think straight, on account of

our brains are full of sex.

we're perverted that way.

please don't kill me.

[benevolent dictator]

159. um, hello? i'm queer too.

You just want to be a victim, I had a lot more sympathy for you before I saw how you responded to the other people on this thread. Now it seems like you're just getting what you give.

I mean, yeah, if some het does something homophobic to piss me off don't think I won't fight back, but i see no reason to blanketly insult ALL hets because I know a few homophobic assholes, just like there's no reason to be racist against all black people just because two of them broke into my house and stole my stuff once.

(Yes, I know they were black, I was home at the time it happened.)

[jdj]

161. honeychild, once again, I didn't say "all"

if you read this thread how did you miss the umpteen times when I kindly reminded people I never said "all" or "every".

so rewind, okay?

[benevolent dictator]

162. No, you didn't say all, but you also didn't say "some."

or didn't you read that part of my post? You know, the part where I said that explicitly.

[jdj]

164. actually I skimmed it.

this time I actually read it word for word.

but I didn't learn anything new.

[benevolent dictator]

167. was that supposed to be an insult?

because really I think it speaks a lot more negatively about you if you only "skim" posts before responding angrily to them than it does about me because you "didn't learn anything new."

Maybe you should try learning something new someday. It might come in handy.

Goodnight. I hope someday you come across some straight people who don't give you the proverbial finger.

[Name removed]

168. Deleted message

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[benevolent dictator]

175. A house queer?

Look, you don't know me, you don't know anyone you're insulting on here. People hide behind insults when they can't actually defend what they're saying. It just makes you look bad.

Sorry if I don't like bigotry, wild assumptions, and insults hurled at people who had an innocent comment about how you phrased something.

Maybe your gayness isn't why your liberal "friend" doesn't like you. Maybe it's because you're overly sensitive and like to insult people.

[Name removed]

189. Deleted message

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[readmoreoften]

188. Yeah, but JDJ qualified her statement immediately and

this woman will just not STOP with it!

[readmoreoften]

187. Sure, but the generalization was in THE SUBJECT LINE!!!!

Please. There are plenty of threads that say things like, WHY DO GAYS THINK THERE IS A HOLOCAUST COMING? WHY DO GAYS THINK STRAIGHTS HATE THEM, I DON'T SEE IT.

This woman is out of control.

[Lars39]

87. Have you not read any of this thread?

Most people responding understood that the OP was an "I'm at the end of my rope"
rant and responded accordingly and sympathetically, exchanging life experiences and insights.

[ScreamingMeemie]

98. I understand completely Lars, but on the other hand, if I had posted

anything remotely like this based on an experience with a homosexual it wouldn't be tolerated. Plain and simple. Some heterosexuals are homophobic assholes... I used the word some. Some homosexuals are pretty much the same. These kinds of posts are designed to incite flames and divisions and I'm really sorry I participated in the first place.

[Lars39]

103. You were one of the few flamers.

Antagonistically so. And it really stands out because you usually aren't like that. :(

[ScreamingMeemie]

122. I don't like participating in flamewars...but labeling really bothers me

Whether it's against the South, against women, against Christians, against jews, homosexuals and even heterosexuals. It's always going to bother me. And I cannot apologize for being bothered by the tone of the OP. I am truly sorry that this poster has had so many negative experiences. Apparently enough to make it appear that a good many of us are as ignorant as this woman obviously was. I've just never had a reason to fear a homosexual, and felt as if a little bit of lumpage was occuring.

[jdj]

106. this was not designed to incite flames, on the contrary.

I said what I said because I needed to get it off my chest and I knew most people here would be empathetic in that their are many minorities here who know what it's like to feel "other", indeed, most of us are now being made to feel like aliens because we are liberals.

I'm so sad, really, that you misread my intentions.

[ScreamingMeemie]

112. I am sorry I was harsh with you, but I will admit the tone bothered me.

You're not other. You're part of humanity. Period. Point Blank.

[jdj]

114. and you are not the be all and end all and the way to

learn about minorities is to shut up and listen.

and if you don't care then say, I just don't care and don't want to hear about your sorry homo ass and all your queer problems. But don't dare tell me I'm wrong, because I may be a lot of things, but wrong about this is not one of them.

[ScreamingMeemie]

116. Erm...Opinion board.

Sorry again, that we disagree, but I still disagree. We all have much to learn. All. Thanks.

[jdj]

121. it must be terrible to have that knowlege and think that

you already know everything.

Reminds me of Broadcast News "what's it like to be the smartest person in the room?"

Holly Hunter (with appalling lack of irony) "It's horrible."

[ScreamingMeemie]

123. Nope. But at least I can admit I've got a lot to learn in life.

:hi:

[Name removed]

125. Deleted message

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[ScreamingMeemie]

126. I guess I could say you go first. I guess I did. These conversations

rarely go anywhere. Have a wonderful evening.

[jdj]

130. thanks. you too.

Daily Show time!

cheers.

:woohoo:

[Name removed]

190. Deleted message

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[alcibiades_mystery]

150. That's bullshit, MrsGrumpy

Or just close enough. Is the original poster "part of humanity." Sure. To be sure. Yes.

But "point blank and period"? Hardly. No way.

That's a nice slogan, but not at all how people get to experience the world. People are "othered" all the time, and to pretend that the general category of "humanity" is a salve to such experiences is stupid and...well, it's just plain stupid.

[jdj]

154. dumbass spoiled straight white folks say this all the time.

just let it go. they don't know any better.

"I annoint you with minority status, and hush now, for I shall tell you of your experience of reality. Be sure to take this all down, now, for I want you to get it right when you recite it back to me in a pleasantly submissive non-threatening way."

[ScreamingMeemie]

157. Yes...sigh....that's me...not stereotyped at all.

If you would stop to note, not once have I colored you with an observation on your character, with the exception of extreme anger directed at too many. The woman you know is a creep, and you're better off not knowing her, but to jump down the throats of those who object to generalizations. And then continue to personally attack them...it blows my mind. But then I'm senseless, a freeper, stupid, spoiled, straight and white. In other words, I don't have much going for me, eh? :(

[jdj]

160. on the contrary, she is NOT a creep.

that's why it hurts.

she's a great person.

actually, I'm having fun with this thread.

Gotta focus on the positive, not let it get to me, 'get over it' or something like that, no?

[ScreamingMeemie]

163. I never told you to get over it. Not once. And I never will.

Those are words you have placed in my mouth. Quite the contrary, in my case. In the OP you stated,"Why do Heterosexuals..." not why do some heterosexuals... Further on, you have stated "some" which I can believe is what you meant in the OP. But after numerous attacks upon my character and inferences that I think you should "get over it" (which is something I never said or even inferred) I have no idea what your intent was anymore. It is only sad that we all feel the need to categorize everyone in neat little boxes.

[jdj]

are you one of those "anti-labeling" people?

that is one diatribe I don't want to hear tonight.

if you don't allow for the diversity of each person a dominant paradigm WILL take over. It might anyway, no matter how hard one tries. But you have to try to hear diverse voices because if you don't the dominant one culturally will supercede all the others and shut everyone up. That whole "no labels" business is extremely offensive. I didn't think they were still teaching that melting pot b.s. I really never expected to find that mentality at DU, of all places. It just doesn't exist. You either listen to the voices of all diverse people, or someone is being dominated and silenced. There will never be a homogenous voice. Silence means dissent. You know, that kind of thing.

[ScreamingMeemie]

171. Call me a dreamer. I believe people can hold on to their diversity, which

I never asked you to give up. I never asked you to assimilate to the Borg. I asked you to realize that we are not all like the people you have encountered. That if I were to meet you, your race, gender, sexual orientation, or religious affiliations are not going to bother and/or frighten me because they're none of my business first and foremost. I never asked you to shut up, I asked you to rephrase. You took it from there, and have basically refused to listen from word one, choosing instead to hurl insult after insult, and supposition after supposition. It's become tiresome and sad that you cannot see I had not one problem with what you felt or how you feel. That it was not the message itself...that nowhere did I say shut up, etc... But this conversation has broken down, and at this point is worthless. Good luck with your life jdj. Perhaps we'll all live in a better world someday.

[ruggerson]

155. I understand your gripe, M G

But, the difference is, one group in this scenario has their civil rights, the other group does not.

Thus, your irritation that if the question were posed the other way around it would incite a lot of hostility is, while perfectly understandably annoying, not really a fair or valid hypothetical.

[ScreamingMeemie]

158. I do not relish stereotyping in any form. I also do not understand the

intense personal attacks I have received, not for disagreeing with the OP but for questioning the method. The woman in the OP is a hypocrit and it disgusts me that people are so ridiculously stupid. But, in the course of discussing this, I have been called some extremely negative names and had my character called into question. It's a bit extreme IMO. The treatment of the OP is reprensible, but we get nowhere by flinging more mud. And I'm quite muddy by now.

Thanks ruggerson for your input.

[ruggerson]

176. Well, fwiw

I think you've displayed great restraint and acted like an adult. Your character has come through quite clearly to me.

B-)

[ScreamingMeemie]

177. You have no idea how much that means right about now...

I am literally teary eyed over your post. Thanks.

[ruggerson]

178. Listen

there is a reason the culture wars are effective, the rightwing uses emotional issues that tear families apart.

I am proud that we are a group (and a party) that explores issues in order to find common ground and healing instead of promoting division and using bigotry and ignorance as a wedge.

Hopefully we can be the party that enables the process of bringing families back together (on numerous hot button issues) and helps, in the process, to heal the nation.

Threads like these are part of that process, imho. They can be raucous and belligerent at times, but on the whole they are useful and healthy.

And you come through to me loud and clear as a caring, compassionate, sensible human being who is trying to BRIDGE differences, not exacerbate them.

[Name removed]

186. Deleted message

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[Deja Q]

204. That's tantamount to a personal attack, surely?

?

[Kerrytravelers]

81. I bet I can guess who here has read the whole thread... and who hasn't

Hang in there, jdj. You seem really, really cool. I was SO not offended by your post nor the title. :pals: See, I'll hug you in public!

[ScreamingMeemie]

85. Read every single post.

Thanks. I don't just jump into things.

[jdj]

86. well some folks are freepers and some are drunk and some

are assholes and some just weren't raised right.

but an overall statistical analysis of this thread only speaks extremely well of DU and the folks here.

[jdj]

136. merci beaucoup!

et tu aussi!

(that's high school french, sorry if it's not right)

[foreigncorrespondent]

166. Could it be...

...because at one time or another most queers have been faced with (when meeting someone new) "oh you are gay? Well, let me make it perfectly clear I am straight" right off the bat.

We know, not all heterosexuals are like this. But what does it say about numbers, if there is only meant to be 10% queers in the U.S. alone, yet most have had this happen to them, one too many times? (On average I would estimate it happens at least 20 times plus.)

I don't want to get into a pissing competition with you Mrs G, because I truly do respect you. But I can see where the OP is coming from. I can also see that she didn't mean all hets. And I am just trying to find the best way of explaining it.

[AspenRose]

58. Same reason why some white people get uncomfortable when a black

man gets on an elevator...you know, women clutching their purses and children....

Ignorance.

(Disclaimer: For the record I said *SOME* white people, just in case someone feels the urge to knee-jerk react. This *IS* DU, after all ;-)

[MissB]

65. Yep. Ignorance.

Congrats, btw, on your new child.

[Solly Mack]

97. it's a shame we can't speak a truth

without adding a disclaimer isn't it?

[jdj]

124. or apologizing to the dominant caste for taking up one smidgeon

of their air space to talk about our issues...

[Solly Mack]

127. ain't that the truth!

from the way they get bent out of shape, it does come across as if they expect an apology...

[jdj]

139. LOL

should I have asked permission?

Is there a ministry of minority issues that doles out air-time for stuff like this..."okay, let's see, you can have five minutes next friday, but anymore than that and we'll have to close down two of your gay bars and cancel the dykes on bikes rally."

[Solly Mack]

141. LOL We laugh but you know,

I'd bet good money some do see it exactly that way....

"OK, you had your say....now get over it, move on...and let's get to what's really important" ( which is anything but "those" people's concerns)

[sendero]

66. Sounds to me...

... more like they are unsure of their own predilections than they are scared of yours.

[neuvocat]

68. Geez, talk about rampant overgeneralizations here.

I was just at a party last week where one girl kept hitting on my straight female friend (regardless of how many times she let her know she wasn't interested on the dancefloor) and yet somehow you think that all straight people are under some sort of delusion.

[ScreamingMeemie]

69. Oh no...We're all just assholes for calling her on this bullshit.

:hi: And when we call her on it, it makes us guilty. :eyes: Nice.

[Lars39]

76. I believe the author of this thread is a she.

[jdj]

80. what is your problem.

honestly, I thought you were one of the sensible people here.

I did not say "all heterosexuals", get it?

I said "heterosexuals", the lack of all should imply that I meant some, what part of that do you not understand?

dunt, dunt, dunt, another one bites the dust.
that's okay, its better to know these kinds of things about people.

[ScreamingMeemie]

83. I have a problem with anyone who pulls out a broad brush. I think if you

had framed you post "some" heterosexuals, I may have received it better. But I believe in calling foul. And this was a foul in my opinion. Does it make me want to shut you out, ignore you, forever? No. Does it make me think you're not sensible? Not really. But I couldn't let it slide. For me, it's just as bad as me thinking (misguidedly)that you are a pedophile. In other words, it's ridiculous as it stands. Do I agree that there are people in the world like this? Damn straight I do. But I'm not going to agree with it the way it's worded. Sorry.


And I do apologize for calling you a he. Lars informed me of my mistake, and I hate it when I do that.

[jdj]

90. What an enormous ego you have.

"I might have received it better"?

yikes.

and the weirdest thing of all is you are apologizing for the only non-offensive thing you said. weird.

[ScreamingMeemie]

94. Opinion board. Opinions welcome. That's my opinion. Which is a heck

of a lot better than becoming defensive and flat out attacking those who chose to disagree with you. Sorry you don't like it. I take back nothing I posted. :hi:

[Kerrytravelers]

84. jdj, please feel secure in the knowledge that a majority of us actually

read the entire post in question and don't feel you are accusing ALL hets of this. I didn't think it was complicated at all.

[jdj]

113. thanks.

it's bizarre how threatened some folks are by this.

it's scary and freudian and depressing all the same time.

[neuvocat]

95. Getting a bit antagonistic here, I see.

Maybe if you had a broader mind you would have considered that the girl you mentioned may be avoiding you for other reasons besides your sexual orientation.

For all we know, she may be into women but you just happen to put her off. Maybe you're just not compatible or you smell bad. Either way, you're carrying on quite a bit over a rather trivial matter.

[Lars39]

100. Goading a bit?

[jdj]

117. R-E-A-D.

she's
m-a-r-r-i-e-d.

yes, I'm sure you tell the uppity black folks that nigger is just a word, too.

[MADem]

173. So was Cynthia Nixon, and switch hitter ex-partner of Ellen DeGeneres

I don't think marriage is a disqualifier. Mrs. McGreevey and Ariana Huffington learned that lesson as well.

I think there's an awful lot of seething and carping going on here. Is everyone really annoyed, or is this just a substitute for a contact sport, like kick boxing or judo...?

[readmoreoften]

192. gays are a trivial matter, it's true...

yeah, and I really liked your earlier comment about a girl hitting on your straight friend at a bar. Maybe that was one of those drunk heterosexual girls-gone-wild girls who like to hook up with other girls to turn men on.

do you see lesbians with rainbow flags on their cars like JDJ hanging out at straight bars making straight women uncomfortable?????

thanks for outwardly acknowledging that you think homophobia is a trivial matter.

[neuvocat]

89. I've had my own sorts of experiences with this as well.

I've had a guy at work try to give me a rose in front of everyone. I couldn't take it because I wasn't interested in the guy (I'm not gay). However I still took it as more of a compliment than anything and I never figured that the guy was going to try and rape me or anything like that.

This thread is nothing more than flamebait as far as I'm concerned.

[ScreamingMeemie]

92. Thank you neuvo, I'm not real thrilled at being called senseless, or

told to fuck off because I disagree. But I won't back down. I'm not a liberal in this person's mind anymore...so be it. I've got lots of stories, but this person has already painted me as a homophobe in their mind...again...so be it.

[neuvocat]

96. See my previous post.

Maybe it has nothing to do with someone's sexual orientation but did this girl ever bother to think about that?

Why...NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

[ScreamingMeemie]

101. I can't really comment, being a freeper and all.

What pisses me off is the ability to get away with this kind of crap. And brush it off as a rant. I understand rants. I also don't understand, if it was a misintentioned "rant" why wasn't the OP edited to reflect "some"?

[jdj]

102. me, me, me.

christ, the point you people are missing is that you are talking about being HIT ON BY GAY PEOPLE. Hell, I've been hit on by gay people alot whom I wasn't attracted to EITHER.

My point is, I HAVEN'T HIT ON ANYONE. I have never been more than three feet close to this woman, have never had a personal conversation with her, nada, zip, zilch, nothing.

No advance has been made, none was planned, and yet I am already rejected out of hand, my personal life has been gossiped about and I am apparently an in joke among my classmates. The only thing I have done is when this woman said she felt like the only democrat in town I brought her a copy of my tally from the BOE showing her that 7000 democrats voted in this election. Is that somehow a pass?

I think this is particularly hard for straight women to understand because they don't know what it's like to be feared. But feel this fear coming off of people at you (at me, little 5'2" me) for no reason, and have this happen to you over and over again, and then you'll maybe understand...oh, wait..it won't happen, and you won't understand...(but that won't stop you from telling me you know better than me what my reality is).

[ScreamingMeemie]

111. What you don't get is that I completely understand part of what you are

trying to say. I am sorry...I do think it is bullshit that there are so many people out there ( but they are still just some) who are fearful of that which they cannot comprehend. But we compound the problem by labeling all.

It sickens me to this day that my uncle moved as far away as he could, that I only saw him three times in my entire life (although he always sent wonderful little gifts to me), that we only found out afterward the hell he had been through in the Navy, that I watch my father cry as he asked me,"Why didn't he think he could tell me and have me accept him...he was my brother?" It sickens me that my Uncle died alone, in 1988, of AIDS, because he thought we wouldn't love him anymore. I'll never get the chance to tell him. That's who I am. Not fearful...not a freeper...not an asshole....not one of some.

His name was Robert Frederick Paulsen, in case you don't believe me. He was a Deputy Sheriff in San Francisco, he also was part owner of a flower shop. He loved me, and I loved him.

But it doesn't really matter, because we disagree...so the label's been pasted on.

Thanks.

[neuvocat]

115. What an ignorant quote this is:

"I think this is particularly hard for straight women to understand because they don't know what it's like to be feared."

You mean like Hillary Clinton? Jeez! There are many powerful women in America who are not lesbian (including high-ranking female generals in the U.S. Army and the U.S. Marines, huge corporations and in Congress for cryin' out loud) who realize EXACTLY what it is like to be feared.

Its time to hide this thread.

[Name removed]

119. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[readmoreoften]

194. Oh yeah and every straight woman is Hillary Clinton, please!

And what does Hillary Clinton get called... a dyke! She gets lumped in with us, that's how she's discriminated against. And how the HELL DO YOU KNOW that HIGH RANKING FEMALE GENERALS are straight.

[Name removed]

193. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ellen Forradalom]

73. I am really sorry you're dealing with this

but we're NOT all like that.

I could give a rat's ass if people are gay, straight, bi or something else, except insofar as the knowledge helps me avoid making social faux pas. This might explain why my gaydar is a cheap piece of junk--I'm not spending much time thinking about who people are bedding down.

[mmonk]

77. Fear. That's why it's called a phobia.

[gollygee]

78. That's too bad

But I have seen supposedly progressive people behave like that around gay people I know. I don't know why they can't treat gay people of their gender the same way they'd treat someone of the opposite gender they weren't attracted to.

[Kerrytravelers]

91. I never understood the fear either. We are the inclusive ones. What gives

I am so sorry that jdj had such a terrible experience at class. Hoefully, she can take away the positive comments that have been given here in support.

Hang in there, hon!

[merh]

99. Why do a lot of gays act like . . .

"heterosexuals act like gay people are going to rape them?" I have a friend who gets in those "slam the hetero moods" and rants and raves, then she will turn to me and say "sorry my heterophobia is showing."

Not every hetero acts as you claim they do. Life is funny, for every "why do's" about one race, gender, creed or color, there are the counter opposite examples. The human race is very complex, trying to put everyone in little boxes is not, it is just lazy.

Why ask why? Why let it bother you?

Live and let live.

[jdj]

110. where do you read "every heterosexual"?

I'm so very tired of this wooden macho posing cock-hard "don let it get to you" facade. Really. I mean, if people really got over the emotional bullshit that gets piled on them from the time they pop out of the womb, the prisons wouldn't be over-crowded, we wouldn't be shooting each other in the streets, and Bush wouldn't be allowing american soldiers to drop jelly gasoline on innocent civilians.

we have emotional lives. we hurt. we are vulnerable. we are not dick-swinging continental soldiers whose only emotion is desire to obediently massacre the next demographic unlucky enough to be the target for all the suppressed anger, frustration and fear that we can't express in real time on a count of we 'got over it'. mmmhmmm.

[merh]

120. I don't think I used every, I think I used a lot.

Just as you "have emotional lives. we hurt. we are vulnerable." so too do the people that make you angry. Being angry is understandable, but being as angry as you post "we are not dick-swinging continental soldiers whose only emotion is desire to obediently massacre the next demographic unlucky enough to be the target for all the suppressed anger, frustration and fear that we can't express in real time on a count of we 'got over it'" is way over board.

Guess what, everyone has fucking problems, every one has emotional baggage and boogey men that have haunted them from childhood, maybe you should try to understand that the reaction of heteros is not your problem, it is their's. Empathy is a wonderful thing, as is respect. If you expect it from others, it would seem that you might want to give some in return. :shrug:

[jdj]

132. bless your heart for making no sense whatsoever.

I would say more, but I can't make any sense of your post.

sorry.


edit: "Not every hetero acts as you claim they do." Right there.

[merh]

137. So you are so angry you can't make sense of posts?

How sad, maybe if you calm down and reread it, you might understand it. Or, is that your feeble effort to belittle my reply?

Be angry, who the fuck cares. Stereotype others, just as you claim they do you, who cares. Be rapped up in a ball of emotion for no reason at all, that is your right.

[jdj]

140. thank you sir, for permission to exist.

how great thou art. how great thou art.

[merh]

142. Whatever

.

[ruggerson]

145. Question

Why do you often post to a thread where a gay person is letting off steam about bigotry with a response that seeks to diminish the validity of their feelings?

This is HER EXPERIENCE. This is obviously a bit of a rant. No need to castigate her for it. What she is saying is valid, I've witnessed it too. And no, that's not putting anyone in a box, that's talking about ONE facet of the complex human experience. Gay AND straight.

[readmoreoften]

196. Why don't blacks and gays and latinos and asians

all stop picking on those of us in the dominant social group and labeling us and when they say we have discriminated against them. I'm in the dominant group and IIIII haven't done anything.

Cry me a river.

[Name removed]

105. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JackRiddler]

107. Parallel experience...

I'm a hetero male but often taken for gay among certain circles, not even because I act in a stereotypically gay fashion, but because I'm considered plain weird; many men whose interpretive range is limited translate that directly into "gay" (I don't get you, so you must be gay, see?) This has given me insight into how often straight men, in bars especially, think a gay guy is going to try to hump them on the spot. They are so easily intimidated, aroused, alarmed by the mere idea there might be a gay guy in the vicinity. The combination of alcohol and stupidity can quickly escalate into danger.

I do agree with one fundamentalist tenet: gay men are dangerous. No, not the ones who are openly living their desires; but the ones everywhere who cannot admit to themselves they have a gay side (aren't even necessarily fully homosexual; just a touch of ambiguity will do to drive many men over the edge).

It's interesting to hear your perspective on a parallel structure among women, which I hadn't really thought was like that.

[seabeyond]

108. i sat on a bench next to a gay gal last week

i sat too close, lol lol. noticed she edged away. why was she afraid of me, lol ? i hired a couple gay gals a decade ago, one patted me on the butt. didnt think a thing about it, til way later. surprised i wasnt bothered a bit. a nothing

my guess is there are people that havent hung out with gays, dont personally know any gays, and are just uncomfortable, no more or less.


how many dont think twice about you being gay. surely the majority.

i am sorry, i am sorry that there are people in our society that are discriminated against, that are thought less of because of who they are. i am truly sorry for you

but thinking further, it may be gay for you that creates rejection, for another it may be they are black or mexican, for another it may be that they are poor, another may be lack of education, another may be a smoker, another.................

we seem to do this throughout our society for all different reasons. if a person is different, any kind of different

[Hamlette]

109. I'm heterosexual and I know what you mean, I've witnessed it too

I usually feign horror and shock and say "why, <insert name here> I had NO IDEA you were an intolerant homophobic!" They sputter a bit when I do. Mind you, I run with a liberal crowd so it shames them no end. Don't think it would work with the right which seems to pride itself on being intolerant homophobes.

[jdj]

128. Blasphemy! Treason!

No straight people are ever like this, ever. Why, twas a dream, twas pure fantasy, I spoke asleep, twas a mistake never to be repeated.

Be careful, you are not supposed to pull cover on your fellow hets, they are lurking on this thread and they are PISSED. Be careful, you might get excommunicated for admitting a truth like this about your own kind. In the spirit of compassion, I'll cover for you, when the mob with flaming torches comes to your door, send them to me, I've been rehearsing...

'don't whip me massa, don't whip me no mo' ah'll be a good lil queerbo an' preten' ain't nuthin bad neva happen to me at the hands of no straight people. Dem straight people, dey' is a perfect, and dey is a so good de way dey put up with deh ungrateful queers. I mean, here dey is a lettin' me live an' all, an' I's a goes an has duh nerve to talk bad about 'em. don't whip me too hard massa, I be good, I promise I be good.'

[MazeRat7]

129. Give me a fucking break... ask a meaningful question next time.... (n/t)

[jdj]

131. submit to me your specifications.

and I will try my best to appease you.

okay I won't, but I just wanted to say that.

[Catherine Vincent]

135. Some are uncomfortable because they think they don't know any

gay people and don't understand that gay people are just people. And a lot of the uncomfortable ones are afraid you may want to convert them and they'll like it!:-)

[ComerPerro]

149. I don't think gay people are going to rape me

I don't exactly have women all over me (if I did, my gf would be pissed), so I can't even imagine gay men being attracted to me at all.

[enki23]

169. they're used to dealing with straight men

they probably just assume you're like them. you have to cut 'em a little slack.

[devilgrrl]

172. Sexually assaulted by Ronny K? I could get over that.

:silly::eyes::spray::eyes::silly:

Sorry Ronny, just funnin'.

[NVMojo]

174. immature, emotionally under-developed, self-centered ...should I go on?

Hang in there. Soon most will be raptured, I am hoping...

[Warren DeMontague]

179. I think geography could play a part in it.

Come to the Bay Area. Most people here couldn't care less.

[readmoreoften]

181. In my experience this seems to happen to lesbians who are

slightly butch to hard butch more than it happens to femmes. This hasn't happened to me so much, but it's happened to a lot of my butch friends (also I date butches, so many who know me know I'm not interested in girly girls and most straight women are femme.)

Some straight women act like all guys want to have sex with them too. I imagine it's tiring for them too.

I'd like to hear what some straight women have to say.

[No Exit]

185. The other side of the coin

I lived in a city which had a large gay population. I was single at the time. I am straight.

I would meet various gay people in all sorts of venues, including work. I can't say I really sat back and made a conscious decision on how to treat them... I just sort of fell into this mode of treating everyone the same... for example, personal questions and references to personal things are rude, so don't make them. And that's what I did. Straight, gay, didn't matter, all were treated the same.

I and some other friends met a pair of women from the northeast during a study session which was required for our line of work. Inwardly, I came to the conclusion that the two women were gay, though not a couple, but I did not remark on this, any more than I would remark on some aspect of some straight person's sex life.

One of the women ended up working where I worked. We were both new employees. She was originally from the same state I was from, and it turned out we had mutual acquaintances. So we became friends. We'd go to lunch, etc. One day, while we were driving somewhere for lunch, she for some reason felt the need to say to me, "I just want to tell you that I'm gay." Before I could shut my fool mouth, I said, "I know." Well, this led her to say, "What do you mean, you know?? How would you know?" I stumbled through some sort of acceptable answer--something like, "I don't know, I just kind of thought you were... well, dammit, I was right, wasn't I, so who cares?"

She must've been embarrassed that some casual acquaintance had, through conjecture, learned something personal about her, but she got over it.

We continued to be friends. At one point, we went to the beach together. Obviously it was not a tryst, and obviously nothing sexual happened. In later days, I happened to be with her when she was talking on the phone to a woman who was one of our bosses, who was gay. My friend mentioned that she and I had gone to the beach.

A few months later my friend seemed to have gotten closer to that particular boss. Then I found myself moved to a less desirable department of our office. I had previously been in the main office, where, incidentally, my friend also worked, but now I was in a satellite office. Eventually I found it necessary to just change jobs, because that satellite office was known as a sort of "death knell" to careers in that place.

Later my friend and the boss in question moved across the country to California. One person from the old office told me that the reason I got moved way back then was because the boss was "protective" of my friend. I wonder.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

191. most people are fucking idiots. straight or gay.

[REP]

195. Anecdote is Not The Plural of Data

I'm sorry this happened to you, but that's not the universal experience ... unless when I had dinner with my chiropractor last week we were really on a date OHMIGOD! She did hug me! Where's the Crisis Hotline Number?!

[LittleClarkie]

197. It's 'cause we're dead sexy

(rubs nipples) Oh yeah, baby.

[Behind the Aegis]

198. What a crock...

...some of these responses have been! It is obvious there are some cool heteros here, but damn...jdj, your post brought out insecurities in quite a few people!!! You didn't say "SOME" in your title line, you crazy lesbian! Don't you know that minorities can be "broad-brushed" but if you do it to a "majority" group people come out of the fucking woodwork to tell you you are using a BROAD BRUSH! I have read a few threads at DU that didn't have the words "SOME" or "A FEW" or whatever in the title and I was all prepared for rage, then I read the post and realized the person was talking about "ALL" of "X" group. Your post makes it clear, at least to me, that you are NOT talking about ALL liberal, heterosexual women! Shame upon ya for not being so fucking specific that NO ONE was offended! :eyes:

I can totally relate to your story. It has happened to me as a gay man more than once. It has made me 'paranoid' about being around heterosexual men. I am always afraid they will misinterpret my actions. If I do have a dude that gets all "worried" about my "intentions," I always (well, most of the time) make it really clear that I am way too attractive for them and they don't have what it takes to care for me, as I am high maintenance! :) I love when they get all insulted when they realize that I WASN'T hitting on them! LOL!

Hang in there, sister!!!

[readmoreoften]

200. I'm the same way with heterosexual women

Luckily right now I'm in a relationship, and also I make it clear I only date butches, which none of them ever are so they know I'm not interested. However, I rarely approach straight women for friendship for this reason. I think as more people get less homophobic, it's getting better though and I'm gaining more straight female friends. But having straight female friends is a new thing for me. I've got loads of straight male buddies, though, even though I'm a very girly femme.

[Behind the Aegis]

202. I so understand where you are coming from!

I love me some butch dykes!!! No offense since you are a "girly femme," but most of my lesbian friends are really butch. When I first came out, butches were the ones who took me "in" and cared for me. They also taught me much about other concepts of feminism (my mom also taught me a lot).

I don't think many heteros understand what the socialization process is for gay people. We have to unlearn self-hating things and re-learn interaction with those different from us. Just like you have "loads of straight male buddies," I have loads of straight female buddies! We associate with others who have similar attractions because they understand the attraction.

BTW...I have read many of your posts...I do enjoy them!!! :)

[NoodleBoy]

199. conceit, basically.

I remember in high school, all the tough guys talking about how they get hit on by gays all the time. if you asked them, though, you'd probably find out they don't actually know any gay people, or the gay people they do know aren't out to them.

just sort of fits in with a larger perception by alot of people that everyone wants to screw them. of course, it doesn't help change that perception when millions of guys (probably 99.99999999% of them straight) actually do want to only have sex with people.

[rman]

201. tell her it's a RW lie

-

[Deja Q]

203. So where did this generalization come from; the planet Calufrax?!

But how do you know they lowered their voices, et al, that they had a thing for you and not because of mere worry of insulting you? When co-workers talk up gays at work, I know they do so when I'm nto around. They know if they whisper that "g" word, I'll be over in about 2.7 nanoseconds; eager for the conversation.

I'm just confused right now... I need a cuppa and sit back and watch some "Lost in Space". That'll put me back on track. :-)

[newportdadde]

205. I think a big hangup for heterosexual men is the whole macho thing.

I think if a gay man asks out or flirts with a straight man the first thing that pops into their mind is.. "Do I appear too feminate? Do I act/appear gay?"

For a straight male who isn't married, steady relationship etc he will then crash into the whole "Is this why women won't go out with me, they think I'm gay etc etc". Its all an ego thing.

I think even married men can go through the same thing to a lesser degree.

It sounds like your friend is kind of dealing with this too. She is already singled out and now she is afraid that she will be labeled as gay and she wont have any dating chances with the few liberal males that are available there.