Ed Schultz is really a Putz today

[tishaLA]

he's devoted his show thus far to dogging Moveon because they had the chutzpah to place an ad against Stenny Hoyer because he voted for the bankruptcy bill. This has driven "Big Eddie" all kinds of crazy because he sees this as the Democratic circular firing squad, etc. Ed apparently thinks we are supposed to fall in line when we disagree with someone and remain silent about DLC fucks.

Schultz usually doesn't bother me; in fact, I listen to him almost everyday because he comes on from 12-3 in LA and Randi is on after that. But today, instead of listening to him dog real progressives who dare to speak up against this crazy bill, I think I'll turn him off.

[Walt Starr]

1. I gave up Ed Schultz in favor of Randi Rhodes

Randi is far more consistent.

[jean]

53. we don't get Randi Rhodes ...the option is to have the radio on or off

I turned it off today. Ed played the MoveOn ad again and again - seems to want to make a spectacle of it and himself.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. I don't care for Schultz, but someone should fax ole Eddie

the Jesus-Plus-Nothing article that was run in Harper's a couple years back..Hoyer is in bed with Repubs on more than an issue or two

[lala_rawraw]

3. Well, I think...

A lot of people are angry when an organization with 60$ million who spends it on a Dem when Delay is hanging by a thread. Timing is key. I agree on this and I am a Mike Malloy progressive, so this is a reaction to strategy. Bad bad idea.

[SaveElmer]

4. I agree with Ed on this one

This is not the time to be distracting ourselves attacking other Democrats. Steny Hoyer is a mainstream Democrat who should not have voted the way he did...but we have far bigger fish to fry!!!

[xultar]

8. Democrats are just White Black folk...Crabs in a bucket...we love

spending more time tearing each other down than our enemy.

What a pitty.

[Robbien]

10. Sure lets give the Dems a free pass on bankruptcy No problem.

Then also be prepared to give them a free pass when they side with corporates on the energy bill, social security and Bolton and the filibuster.

No don't chastise Democrats for taking lobby money and selling us down the river on the bankruptcy act. Not this time. And not the next and not the next.

They are Democrats and we must give them our whole hearted support because they have a D after their name. Ignore the fact they are robbing us blind and go give them a pat on the back just for being Democrats.

[SaveElmer]

12. No...we give them our support

Because they are one hell of a lot better than Republicans. We can do more in power than oput of it. We kill ourselves with all the backbiting. Now is the time to stick together!

[Robbien]

14. You want to stick together with people who voted for the credit card

companies and stick together with the people who voted for tort reform and the people who voted for non-negotiable drug prices?

If you support them in these activities, go ahead write a letter of support for the Leave No Lobbyist Behind Energy Bill. Go tell your buddies you wish them to drill in ANWR. Tell them they should take the investment firms lobby money and vote in support of Bush's privatization plan.

This may be the time for you to stick together with your buddies, but those corporate interest Democrats do not deserve my support.

[SaveElmer]

16. That's your choice...

If every Democrat has that attitude we will be in the minority in perpetuity. Now is not the time to get distracted from beating the enemy...in this case the Bush admin. Can you seriously tell me you would rather have Tom Delay as Majority leader than Steny Hoyer...?

[Robbien]

27. How do you break an enemy if you vote with them all the time?

Why should the people vote for Democrats if they can get the exact same laws by staying with the Republicans?

The only difference between Delay and Hoyer right now is that Delay gets a bigger check from the lobbyists because he is a Republican. Hoyer is not as nasty as Delay, but when one is being screwed does it really make a difference. We still are being screwed.

[SaveElmer]

29. Oh please...

Re you seriously comparing Hoyer to Delay...that is ridiculous. Hoyer votes the right way 83% of the time (ADA), I didn't look, but I would venture Delay is at about 0%. If you want to be pure about it you have that right. But the voting public won't see it that way. They will see unorganized Democrats eating their own and go vote Republican.

[Robbien]

52. What good is having a Democrat in office if he votes for corporate

interests. Hoyer is the Whip who is supposed to keep the Democrats votes in line. Just one vote from the party Whip in favor of corporate interests destroys party unity.

He is at fault here. He is the one who broke party unity. The American public is the victim. But you are now blaming the victim for destroying party unity since the public is not backing credit card companies and is chastising the true destroyer of party unity.

[tishaLA]

54. But Hoyer got $300K from the credit card corps

that money spends three times better than that measly $100K moveon has! :sarcasm:

[SaveElmer]

55. As I have pointed out...

Which you are ignoring...Hoyer generally does not vote those interests...he did in this case, and it is ok to criticize him. But, what is the point of spending 100,000 on an ad attacking him. All it does is weaken Democrats.

[Robbien]

58. It tells Hoyer his vote has consequences.

And getting rid of corporate interests votes from the Democratic party doesn't weaken it. It strengthens it. It makes it a real party with distinctic goals people can choose to support. Being viewed as a party who votes for corporate interests labels Democrats as a weak little shadow of the GOP party and the only reason to vote for them is because you do not like the GOP.

[SaveElmer]

60. So the consequences are what ?

Minority status in the House ? Yeah that'll show him.

There is no way this one stupid MoveOn ad is gonna get him defeated...he is far too popular. Meanwhile we have wasted precious resources on it, resources that should have been spent beating Bush.

If you are waiting for all 100% pure Democrats in the house before you concentrate on beating the other side...you are in for a very long wait.

[Robbien]

63. Why does the argument always end up with that "100% Pure"

baloney? "You cry baby Progressives you want it ALL your way". Bah!

Right now we have almost a 100% Pure corporate interest political body. All your arguments keep saying no one should do anything to rock the boat because those corporate interest Democrats will not be able to keep getting their share of the booty.

There are alternatives. We don't have to keep supporting politicians who are in it to destroy our democracy for their own benefit. That is the message which is being sent to Hoyer right now.

[SaveElmer]

67. So how do you define non Corporately owned Democrats ?

Steny Hoyer has an 83 Lifetime rating from one of the leading Liberal activist groups in the country. Not good enough for you ? What rating do you want him to have ? How are you going to define what is good enough ?

I guess the basis of your argument is that there is no significant difference between the Democratic house members and Republcian house members...they are all corporately owned persons using different rhetoric. Therefore, attacking Steny Hoyer with his good (but not perfect liberal voting record), is just as useful as attacking Tom Delay (with his 0 rating).

[Robbien]

70. That 83 rating was back in 1999 according to your site.

The bankruptcy bill is a defining issue TODAY not six years ago. Those 73 so called Democrats that voted for the bill are corporate interest politicians joined at the hip with the GOP corporate interest politicians.

Those that did not, voted against the corporate interest bosses and for the common good of the country.

My vote goes with the latter group.

[SaveElmer]

71. For your info...

100% ADA voting record in 2004

http://www.adaction.org/ADATodayVR2004.pdf


90% in 2003


http://www.adaction.org/2003housevr.htm


Whether you want to admit it or not...and clearly you don't ...you are applying a purity test to Democrats in the house. If you don't think Steny Hoyer is any better than Tom Delay, you have a right to that opinion...but the facts do not back you up.

[Robbien]

73. In the last four years each bill to come up for a vote has been a vile

affront to our land, sea, air, education and economy.

In thinking about it yes I will admit, in this time of the BushCo administration 100% vote purity is the only defense.

[Quixote1818]

104. Dam SaveElmer you Rock!!!! You are on fire in this arguement. nt

Keep up the good work!

[Quixote1818]

103. You nailed it Elmer! nt

[SaveElmer]

17. Steny Hoyer has an 83 lifetime ADA rating

I'll take that over Tom Delay any day!!!

http://www.adaction.org/ho00022.htm

[Drewskie]

19. ...

Corporations are the only ones in a position to contribute enough money for a person to run in the first place... Democratic senator Mark Dayton is'nt running for re-election. Why? The first time around he spent 8 million of his own dollars to run... He can't afford that again. Now, when the credit card companies make 30 billion dollars profit of course they will have lobying clout. If you want just Repubs to take money from corps then congrats... you've got a one party political system.

[Robbien]

30. So by that reasoning we should support credit card Dems just because

they are Dems. If we don't we will not have credit card GOPers and credit card Dems, just credit card GOPers.

Having a D or R after a corporate interest politician's name should make a difference to me? It doesn't.

[Drewskie]

33. Hoyor's finances

Well, say Hoyor votes against the bill and has his finances pulled by the card companies/banks. They decide to back a repub instead who will vote their bills through... and will also vote with the repubs on 90% of the other issues. Would it be better to keep Hoyor, who voted for this bill, but "as the whip" votes with the democrats on most other issues?

[Robbien]

41. I say that unless there is some consequence to Hoyer for voting

with the credit card companies, then what is to stop Hoyer from voting with investment firms on social security privatization?

Hoyer needs to be told loudly and firmly his vote for credit card companies is not supported and there will be consequences.

Being screwed by the other party is bad enough. But being screwed by your own is much worse.

[Drewskie]

50. ss

SS privitization is so unpopular, even among many on the other side, that Hoyor would never feel the lobbying pressure he does on this issue. The fact a whole pack of dems voted for the card bill, I think, is indicative of big time pressure.

[Robbien]

61. The reason so many Dems voted for it was because Hoyer and

the New Democrats and the Blue Dog Democrats sent out emails to their members telling them to support the bankruptcy bill. Atrios even had one of these emails up on his site the night before the vote. The email was so full of bull justifying how good this bill will be for the people who fall into debt. They cannot even be honest among themselves.

No honor among thieves.

[Romberry]

80. Corporations are prohibited from making political donations

You really ought to know that corporations can not make political campaign donations. Only individuals can. Sorta shoots a hole in your theory, yes?

[Drewskie]

100. CEOs and others make the contributions

from so called private money.

The RNC already broke the record for fund raising dollars this year.

[tishaLA]

25. Big Eddie isn't so sure about the ANWR thing either

he said a couple weeks ago he needed to be convinced that drilling would be a bad idea. And he's willing to stand behind the bankruptcy bill. And he gave the most sycophantic interview of Lieberman tbis side of Hannity.

[Quixote1818]

79. GOD FOR BID! A DEMOCRAT WHO DOES NOT AGREE WITH

YOU 100%. THAT BASTARD!!!!! He should just go back to the Republican party where he belongs rather than help bring in one hell of a lot of moderates to our party to help us WIN in the next couple of elections for a change.

I don't agree with Ed all of the time but SO WHAT????? Why do you dislike him so much??? He is 10000000 times better than most of what is out their. Look at the glass as half full rather than half empty. He is on OUR SIDE for Christ sake.

[tishaLA]

96. Chill, Quixote

I'm on your side too. As I posted below, I don't agree with anyone, including Wes Clark, 100% of the time. I actually like him most of the time and I enjoy his corny stories, too. But as a progressive, I will always side with progressives like moveon when the chips are down instead of with conservative democrats like Schultz. That's all.

[Quixote1818]

102. Sorry, that was an old post done before our exchange below.

The important thing is we are all on the same side and we all want the best for our country.

[never_get_over_it]

24. You know usually I would agree with you

but how long do we support these Dems that show no leadership - no opposition to the destruction of this country. Time after time after time the Dems do not show any real opposition and their answer to that is - we need to pick our battles - save our oppsition for the important stuff - well I'm beginning to think that even though they ARE a hell of alot better than the repunks - in reality what good does that do when they won't fight. It is way past time for them to be an opposition party - and fight for the folks who are not in the top 1% of wealth in this country.

[WLKjr]

37. I agree totally, but can still see why they are doing it.

I wish that money would have went after Delay, but it didn't. Wasn't Hoyer the only one that went along with it anyway? If People didn't like him in his district they wouldn't have left his old ass in there for 13 terms.

I do however agree on the point that it's time to draw a damn line though and let them know where their constituancy lies in their opinion of that bankruptcy bill.

IMHO, Hoyer didn't even really play a part in wether it was goint to pass or not, wouldn't it have passed anyways wether he voted for it or not?

Now, let's all turn around and keep the focus on 2006. We are not like the righties, they all are lock step, I hate lock step! That is why I am a progressive Dem. I don't want to have to agree and like it all the time, I like to hear opposing points of view from time to time. That way it keeps things interesting.

[returnable]

45. Yep. WOuldn't it have made more sense for Moveon...

...to put up billboards attacking vulnerable Republicans for voting for the bill? :shrug:

[SoCalDemocrat]

72. Exactly

That is exactly what MoveOn should have done. Attacked the Republicans who are targets in the 2006 eections.

I won't be cutting MoveOn any checks in the near future after this maneuver.

Heck I would not have minded if they ran print ads and listed the Dem's who voted for it, as long as they focused on the authors and big money backing the bill.

[Drewskie]

5. ammunition

I think he's right in that moveon attacking a powerfull dem leader gives the right alot of ammuntion. He's also right in that in-fighting like this "might" keep the democrats from ever regaining power... It's a double edged sword... the guy voted for one bad bill but has done much good, now he has a 100,000 campaign advertisement against him, in his district, funded by a democratic organization.

[tishaLA]

9. As NSMA points out above

it's not about "one bad bill." He has voted for a series of bad bills and I think progressives in the Democratic Party (and outside it) have a right to call these people to task and ask them to do better than they are when they vote in favor of corporate interests.

BTW, moveon is NOT a Democratic organization--capital D--it is a progressive one. And they have run ads against Democrats before.

[Drewskie]

11. he's the whip!

He's the whip... his voting record has to be in line with the dems else he would'nt be in his position. There might be a few aberrations, but then anyone who has been in the house/senate any length of times has those... Just look how they ripped apart John Kerry.

[democracyindanger]

20. But that's not what MoveOn is attacking Hoyer for

They're going after him for one specific vote. You can't have it both ways.

[tishaLA]

36. They are holding him accountable

Isn't that what we are supposed to do? He has an important position in the party and, dare I say, not many progressives think that bankruptcy bill is a good piece of legislation. Hoyer says we don't like it because of misinformation surrounding the bill; I disagree. I think we know quite a lot about it and I don't like it one bit.

[democracyindanger]

62. Sure, but hold him accountable for that

It seems some are arguing that he should be attacked because of other reasons, not just the bankruptcy bill.

[walldude]

6. I gave up on Ed after that awful interview

where he just kissed Joe Liebermans ass...

[Drewskie]

28. kid gloves

He usually handles the senators with kid gloves... is soft on them. Probably because he wants to not piss them off so as to get them on the air again and keep his job as a radio guy.

[Morose]

40. Not-So-Big Ed is as much a sophist when his ego is on the line

as anyone he attacks. He doesn't really present a position as much as reaction in kneejerk ways anytime he sets his teeth in something. It's entertaining sometimes but seldom very informative. In fact that's my big issue with Big Eddie today...he's talking out his ass. He hasn't offered ANY information that he, himself gathered about the Bankruptcy bill...instead he's decided Hoyer is a good guy so he's gonna attack MOVEON. Does that make them right or wrong? Nope...but no listener is going to have a clue about it based on what Ed's spewing.

Moveon isn't a democrat organization. It is a progressive organization. they have a right and responsibility to hold Democrats accountable to Liberal/Progressive ideals just like Republicans. Could they have done it more deftly here? Probably. But they do something we should all be thinking about here by firing a shot across the bow of a democrat who's clearly done something that isn't kosher.

Sure Delay is a prime target...but he's got everyone's guns on him. This shouldn't be an excuse for DINO behavior going unexcused. And Big Ed attacking Moveon all day seems to be to be as big a waste of opportunity, effort, and focus as he is saying Moveon is guilty of.

Pot, Kettle Ed.

[kaitykaity]

7. He's been better lately, hasn't been so blatantly sexist.

Hasn't called Randi a "slut" lately or female callers
who diagree with him "witches."

But today I had to turn off his show to stream Randi.
I couldn't stand it,

(Glad you posted the OP instead of me. When I post
anti-Schultz threads, his fans always accuse me of
being a Randi suck-up.)

[Mojambo]

13. I don't particularly care for either Schultz or Randi

but the idea that we can't attack faux-democrats while still hammering the republicans really irritates me.

Personally, I've got enough disdain for both groups to go around.

But Steny Hoyer isn't being attacked because he's a democrat who's not always in line, he's being attacked because he's voted for some extremely damaging pieces of legislation.

If Schultz doesn't get that then he's a little too wrapped up in the battle of meaningless letters (D vs R)

[quinnox]

15. Schultz is right

MoveOn is wasting money running ads against a powerful Dem and helping the republicans at the same time.

With friends like this who needs enemies

[leftofthedial]

18. Eddie is a DLC plant

Repuke-lite

He just wants to be the second-wave Rush

Could be worse, but he's not the sharpest talk radio guy around.

[shance]

68. Which means he' s an RNC plant.

The two tango so beautifully together.

Wasn't it Bruce Reed who admitted voting for Bush in 2000?

DLC is a terrific Republican organization.

[Nite Owl]

21. I just heard a little bit in the car

what I missed or don't understand is why Stenny Hoyer in particular? There were alot of them that voted for this miserable bill. And why are they doing it now after the fact and not before the House voted, they could have gone after someone like Biden.

[tishaLA]

39. Because of his position in the party

as the whip and because this bill is a synecdoche for what he does with important legislation.

[Nite Owl]

59. Ahh, now I see.

Thanks for clearing that up. I'm with moveon on this one. The one caller I heard a caller, a woman, say that they owe us loyalty not the other way around. She was right they will have my support when they do the right thing and this was totally wrong. The dems could have introduced their own bill and campaigned for it, ads and all. Instead they chose to follow and not lead. They were just afraid of being soft on those that just spend and claim bankrupcy with no intent to pay which are very few and in the pocket of the credit card companies.

[LittleClarkie]

22. I just went over to www.ndol.com

but I can't find Stenny Hoyer on the New Democrat Directory list. Where are you looking?

[libertypirate]

23. Are you folks paying attention...

Why haven't the repub's been acting like Americans going after their own?

The liberals allow other points of view to exist, but when you screw us we shout loud hard and even at those we like.

Sham the republicans into the fight people.

[cry baby]

26. I agree with him, timing is everything. Too many people

on the right need to be taken to the shed.

[Mojambo]

32. It's not just people on the right that need to be taken to the shed

People who support harmful legislation need to be called out whether they are left, right or center.

MoveOn is a progressive organization, not a Democratic Party specific group. As a member, I fully support this action and any more like it.

Throw away the D's and R's people. The letters are becoming irrelevent.

[Stinky The Clown]

31. So lemme understand this ........

Some elected dems voted for issue A ..... boot 'em, the dirty fuckers.

Some elected dems voted for issue B ..... boot 'em, the dirty fuckers.

Some elected dems voted for issue C ..... boot 'em, the dirty fuckers.

Some elected dems voted for issue D ..... boot 'em, the dirty fuckers.

Some elected dems voted for issue E ..... boot 'em, the dirty fuckers.

So, lemme see now ... okay ... ideological purity is getting closer .....

Now ... the ones not elected .... and the former candidates/leaders .....

Dennis ... votes with the right on abortion issues ... yer outta here, dumbass.

Howard ..... wants to give up on abortion .... see ya .....

Wesley .... accused as a war criminal. No proof ... but *smack* ... buhbye, fool.

John ... wishywashy ... voted for war .... take a hike, asshole.

John2 ..... voted fer da war .... see ya, shithead.

Okay ... who's left?

Hillary ..... waaaaay to accommodating ... seeya, bitch

Babs ..... I dunno .... she musta done sumpin wrong ... outta here on principle .... see ya, shifty.

Anyone left?

Okay, they're gone. Now we're purer ...... so ..... a last look around .... hey ...... H2S ...... yeah, you .......beat it, ya ratfucker. You ain't pure enough either.

Everyone feel better now?

No?

Okay, kick him out ...... and her ..... and them .....

All alone? Feel better?

Jeez ... what's this about? There's no two of us in all the population of DU, let alone the whole fucking party where we all agree on everything. This circle jerk has to stop. When some's obviously egregious, boot 'em for sure .. folks like Zell have no place with us. Lieberman, bad is he is, at least votes with us on social issues. I sense an ideological litmus test here that is as stifling as that of the right sometimes ......

[tishaLA]

34. Nobody is saying boot him

they are saying hold him to account. For some people--the people funding this ad through moveon--the bankruptcy bill is important enough to give money to get the ad aired.

If this were just one bill and just one vote and if he were a nobody congressman, I'm sure nobody would care. But none of those things is true in this case, unfortunately and we have to hold our representatives to account.

[Stinky The Clown]

43. Fine ... hold him to account. But to use a national campaign by an

organization that rasps the right's ass like 36 grit sandpaper makes it look really bad for our side. This is the sort of thing better handled a little more privately, isn't it? :shrug:

Moveon has a shitload of visibility if for no other reason than they've been vilified by the Theocratists and Corporatists.

Is the bill a good one? Absolutely not. But there has to be more circumspect ways to go about making our feelings known to otherwise good dems.

[tishaLA]

46. It's not a national campaign

it's a local one and it is being funded by contributers to moveon who are giving *specifically* to this ad because they think having the House Democratic Whip supporting a piece of legislation that is just short of criminal is bad.

I think it might be better to have it handled privately, but do you think moveon just decided to create this ad without doing leg work? I really doubt that. One thing I have learned about them is that they are responsible and very smart about the political process.

BTW, "Big Eddie" talking about this all day is giving the ad more air time than it would have received otherwise. It's sort of the duplicity of denouncing an ad: you end up giving it credence, if only accidentally.

[Stinky The Clown]

57. I tuned to Shultz after my response to your OP

I agree ... he's kinda over the top with this one. Symptom of a frosted ass, I suspect. But, through the yelling (which helped me damned little in understanding this better) I **think** I agree with his point.

I also didn't realize this was a local ad. That's a bit more tolerable, but again, I'd rather we did our laundry in the basement laundry room and not in the river in front of the neighbors.

[Mojambo]

35. You know what? The Bankruptcy legislation was a test.

A big fucking test. It was about who's with the people and who's with the corporations.

I can bend on a lot of other issues, but to me that one was so blatant and so obvious that it's a deal breaker.

If others feel differently that's fine.

[KoKo]

48. You have alot of support in that. Many of us are justifiably angry with

this vote. We've choked down other votes saying that our Dems just had to go along...and that maybe their constiuencies supported them on this or that. For years we've done this.

BUT...Bankruptcy Bill was a true test for Democratic Core values and 73 of them caved including the House Whip, Steny Hoyer. Can anyone imagine any Repug caving and not voting the "Party Line."

But...for those of us sick and tired of stolen elections, fradulent elections and Democrats who cave in and vote with the Repugs on what is truly a Democratic Core Values issue (protecting the average person against the Corporations who intice them into easy credit with mass mailings of credit cards and then sock them with rates that the "Old Mafia" would have been proud to flaunt, and then goes after them for taking advantage of the pressure in ads (how you too can give your kid a vacation at Disney World ...just charge it)...any Democrat voting for this is like a slap at why we ARE DEMOCRATS in the first place.

So, the Schultz thing just points out that the DLC is happy to be a Democratic Party but just don't bite or sling arrows at the hand that feeds those 73 who voted for the bill. The Corporate Trough is just too nice to feed at.

This was DLC and those protecting their own interests who have no regard for the "little folks," who are barely getting by and who've been "lured" by agressive and brutal marketing tactics to spend, spend spend. :nuke:

[B Calm]

38. Why in the hell is it so wrong with democrats wanting a opposition

party? I agree with Move On, expose these phony democrats!

[Lab2112]

47. RE: Why in the hell is it so wrong with democrats wanting an opposition

I agree that no one (or political party) should hold a viper against one's bosom, but I wonder, what is the criteria to determine "phony democrats?" What's the current consensus?

LAB

[B Calm]

51. It is determined by how much money a powerful lobbyist

paid him for his or her vote!

[Cleita]

42. Maybe he's okay with the hayseeds in Middle America

whom he appeals to, but they really shouldn't play him on the coasts. I have to turn him off too, which irritates me because sometimes I want something to listen to something in that time slot where I live, which is 4-7 PM, PST.

[The Revolution]

65. hayseeds in Middle America?

Gee, I can't imagine why we're losing support in this region.

Maybe if we had one of them there movie star governors, that would help?

:eyes:

[Cleita]

76. Give me a break!

I can't say what I really want to say because some sensitive Middle American wheat grower, who voted for Bush will get all upset. I guess I shouldn't blame all those nice people in Fargo WHO VOTED BUSH. Thems, who listen to Ed Schultz are as liberal as thems gonna get.

Yet, in the last two weeks thread after thread right here on DU was full of the most racist rhetoric aimed at Latinos, my ethnicity. But I guess it's okay because we can't insult Americans of Northern European ancestry back because it's not nice.

Please tell me what you would like us to call you other than entitled white people who own everything AND VOTE REPUBLICAN!

[The Revolution]

90. I see.

When you use derogatory terms its good, when others do its bad. Makes perfect sense.

What would I like you to call me? Um, a person, an Iowan, an American...something other than terms which are clearly meant to demean to people just because of where they happen to live.

The kind of attitude you are showing is EXACTLY the reason we are losing in the Midwest.

Now I have to get back to my wheat farming and republican voting...since that's apparently what I do.

[napi21]

44. I see Ed's point on this one!

I don't want to be like the Pubs, but I have to give 'em credit for keeping their disagreements behind closed doors. I think it's fine to disaree with any official, write them, call them, and express your views, but it is a little over the top to run ads against your own. It fuels the opposition by proving their constant statements about the Dems being in disarray, and I think that's bad!

[B Calm]

49. If the politican is in favor of supporting credit card companies

over the working man, one has to wonder how much money he recieved to buy his vote!

[napi21]

66. I heard Clark Howard, a radio consumer advisor, talk about this today.

He is absolutely non-partisan all the time, and has a lot of really great advise.

He said this new bankruptcy law is brutal, and it was intended to be. The designers of the bill are trying to force consumers to be very cautious about overusing credit. His advise to his listeners was for everyone to consider very carefully if you really can afford that new car that you're dreaming about but is sooo expensive! To think several times before you say of the heck with it, let's go to the Bahamas for our vacation and charge it.

Although I think the responsibility should be more slanted toward the credit grantors to tighten their rules in granting too much credit, Clark has a valid point.

If that is the thought process of those who voted for this bill, maybe they're not completely wrong.

[B Calm]

69. Clark is wrong. I would say a very small majority of people

who file bankruptcy do so because they wanted a nice vacation or a new car. Most people do so because they had no health care insurance.

[napi21]

74. Don't you think that those in a situation like that are also

mostly under their State's median income? If so, they can still file under Chapter 7.

[Romberry]

81. Clark Howard is off base on this one

The vast majority (more than 70 percent) of personal bankruptcy filings come after/as a result of huge medical bills, job loss or divorce. It's not a situation where millions of Americans are living high on the hog and then asking for a free ride.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

56. ed's brilliant strategy: just take it and let the DLC reassert control

sorry fat eddie-we put dean in there to get rid of this shit.

and i hate to break it to the big guy, but there are a lot of us who don't like the idea of hillary as the nominee. he really needs to quit acting like the decision has been made for us. schultz is a DLC psuedo-populist phony

[deadite]

64. Giving an entire show over to bashing Progressives for bashing a

(supposed) Progressive?

Sorry, I think Ed's full of it. And I don't mean the milk of human kindness.

[xchrom]

75. walk and chew gum at the same time.

i can critisize hoyer and delay at the same time.

''political purity'' is a red herring -- progressives and moveon in this case -- can see an action and call ''bullshit'' -- it has nothing to do with any thing else.

if you like hoyer then you now support the status quo that the bankruptcy bill represents -- progressive protests mean nothing to repukes -- they might mean something to hoyer.

[B Calm]

77. We need to run someone against Stenny Hoyer and reclaim

the party of the working man!

[Quixote1818]

78. Ed Schultz is bringing in one hell of a lot of people to our party

I don't agree with him all the time but the guy appeals to many people who are generally suspicious of the Democratic party. He brings in "Gun toting, meat eating, football watching, nascar loving moderates". Blue collar, hard working folk who are beginning to see that Republicans are not looking out for their best interests. Ed Schultz is a MASTER at showing these people how corrupt the Republicans are. He is a master at painting a picture of what is going on and making it simple and to the point and repeating it over and over and over! We need the kind of people Ed is bringing over to win! As far as I am concerned Ed can say what ever the hell he wants as long as he helps us win some fucking elections for a change.

[Romberry]

82. Ed Schultz is bringing in one hell of a lot of people to our party?

That's your claim. Show me some proof.

Ed Schultz is not the Democratic Party. He's just one guy and he all too often uses his time to go after everything and everyone from MoveOn to Howard Dean. If it isn't OK for MoveOn to go after a wayward Dem, why is it OK for Ed to go after a Dem supporting organization like Move On?

[tishaLA]

84. He also went after Dean again today

chastized him for not coming on his show and only talking to local people.

He was just racking up points with me today throughout the whole show. He was a real prize.

[Quixote1818]

88. Then you missed the ALL the shows where he supported Dean for Chair?

He wasn't invited on all the Sunday political shows because he told them he thought Dean was a GREAT choice for Chair. It's obvious you are new to listening to Ed. You have no idea what a big supporter of Dean he is.

[tishaLA]

89. I just wrote about what he said TODAY

I also said I like him most days but he was really pissing me off today with his anti-progressive crap.

I can have an opinion about what someone does ONE DAY without people misreading it as an overarching critique, can't I? Besides, moveon is much closer to my heart than the party chair, I have to confess.

[Quixote1818]

92. Thats cool, sorry I read too much into your post. nt

[Drewskie]

91. it's funny

I found it to be comical... Both him and alot of the callers. There were a few good shouting matches. All in all I think it's the most obnoxious banter I've heard on his show. He also took a huge shot at Limbaugh at one point which was funny and cracked me. He said something like "I guess we're not good enough for Dean", sort of pouting... Good stuff.

[Quixote1818]

86. He goes after Bush HARD!!!!! Thats really all I care about with Ed

You all can fight over all these little meaningless things but the fact is Ed is a master and hammering Bush and he has the biggest audience in Progressive radio not to mention he is not even affiliated with Air America. He survives and thrives on his own. So he is not fringe enough for you. Big deal! Give me a break! He is still a fucking Democrat who rips Bush hard!

[Romberry]

97. So, you can't back up your claim then?

You made a claim in your previous post about the numbers that Schultz was bringing into the Democratic Party. I asked for proof. Your response is to call me "fringe"? Sorry. You lose. Why? Because you posted the response of a loser.

(Feel free to supply the proof to back up your earlier POOYA claim any time. People who PIOOTA don't have a lot of credibility with me.)

[Quixote1818]

101. Are we not all on the same side??????

What is the point of your post? To rip us all apart? It's common sense that he is bringing people into the Democratic party. He is going after Rush's audience and he appeals to Moderate people, Democrats and Republicans. With the largest audience in progressive radio it's safe to assume that he is HELPING us more than the other shows are. While I love Randi Rhodes and Malloy they probably are not appealing to too many moderate Republicans like Ed Schultz does. The proof is guys like my Republican Boss and my Republican friend from Chicago liking Ed Schultz enough to tune in. They would NEVER tune into Randi Rhodes. They like someone who talks football and has a personality they can relate to. Where is your proof that Ed is not helping us?

I won't stoop down to saying "YOU LOSE'. I will leave that kind of pre-conventional moral reasoning to my five year old son and you.

[tishaLA]

87. I agree with you by and large

I had a specific complaint about what he did on today's show. Instead of talking about the logic of the vote or why moveon placed the ad or discussing why progressives might have a problem with the bankruptcy bill, he took it as a personal affront because Hoyer had been on his show last week. It was intellectual laziness and it amounted to a bunch of ad hominem attacks about us and them.

To my mind, moveon is NOT the enemy; they are progressives and they are largely democrats. I can also say that Schultz is not the enemy; he is a more conservative democrat who spouts populist rhetoric. Both can coexist, but Schultz should stop with the belligerence toward them and instead think about creating a dialog that expands the party.

[Mr_Spock]

94. I agree completely. We need Ed and I listen every day.

This guy knows what it takes to get people back into the party and win elections - and I'm all for that!

[lonestarnot]

83. I also disagreed with him today, but that doesn't mean he's a putz!

[tishaLA]

85. tomato, tomahto

[Mr_Spock]

95. Exactly my thought - I though he was over wound but he will have

second thoughts tonight - you'll see. He's that kind of guy.

[Mr_Spock]

93. I love Ed! He could tone it down a bit on the rhetoric today but

on the whole he has the right idea and he is converting an awful lot of people to the causes of liberals and the Democratic party.

[Romberry]

98. He's converting an awful lot of people?

Just what do you base this on, if in fact it is based on anything at all? Is it just your "feeling" or do you have some numbers? If it's just your "feeling", you really shouldn't post as if it were a demonstrable fact.

[Drewskie]

99. converted

He's on the most stations on prime radio hours and thus has the most potential to convert. They would need to do some exit polls, and look at results, during the next election cycle in areas where he is heard and look for "bumps" towards the left. Bumps might be indicative of an impact.

But yea, it's a stretch at this point to say him, or any of the AAR people, have converted the populace en masse.