Listening to David Frum on Bill Maher

[Mend]

it occurred to me that Jewish power players such as he and Richard Perle and Lieberman think they can drive this car to the end of the pier (helping bush clean up the mid-east for Israel) and then stop and turn it around. I don't think this will happen....the car is going to go over into the water and freedom and democracy in this country will drown. Consort with the enemy and say goodbye to the separation of church and state. Mr. Frum, you have no idea how much the fundies hate Jews. You think Israel is worth losing this country or you can fix it in time, but my guess is that you are going to lose both.

[justice4all_1]

1. What do you mean by JPP?

When I hear about "Jewish Power Players" I'm reminded about how some people talk about "Jews in Hollywood"... And I wonder what your point is.

Could you please clarify your position?


- T

[Mend]

3. The top advisors to bush including Richard Perle, Paul

Wolfowitz, David Frum, and others come from a religous group that is traditionally liberal Democrats who strongly defend the separation of church and state, freedom of religion, would be against creationism being taught in schools and all the rest of the fundie agenda. These bright intellectual men seem to be tossing it all away to change the middle east but maybe, just maybe, they are opening pandora's box. These fundies will change this country into a theocracy and I doubt it will revere the Jewish people. Read some notes from trolls on Atrios tonight as an example. It is scary as hell.

[Swamp Rat]

10. These lizards:

[kliljedahl]

32. And what about

the Jewish basketball players/ Jon Stewart comes to mind.:shrug:


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[ragin_acadian]

2. David Frum = G.I. Jew

well, not really.

he's part of the american neocon establishment that is butt-linked to the likud's of israel. boastful, bloodthirsty tools fueled by commercial interests.

Israel has a gutless establishment just like ours...old fat men that have never served, but are willing to give young people guns and tell them to subjugate the meek with a bayonet. if anyone ever tells you that the palestinians are terrorists, ask them why israeli's grind wheelchair bound men underneath the treads of american supplied tanks.

[Mend]

4. I think it is called PNAC.....eom

[Clark2008]

5. And, at this point, I think it would be wise to point out that we're

talking about a POLITICAL structure and NOT a religion.

I was married to a Jordanian-born Palestinian. I know the back history.

I can't speak for this poster, but I have NO problem with Israel and the Jews - and, guess what, neither did my ex husband. However, what I have a problem with, my ex and his family had a problem with and, probably this poster, has a problem with is the Likud ultra-Zionists who think that the Palestinians are chattle or dirt or, well, Jews of the Hitler era.

[ragin_acadian]

6. yea, hey, i'm with you on that one. political structure, not religion.

i have always been simultaneously amused and offended when some neckless wonder dispariges the jews, then talks about christ in the same sentence- what planet are those type of people really from? if space travel becomes a reality, i am striking it from my itinerary.

GREAT POINT though, how does the likud justify their treatment of palestinians, while using the similar treatment of their own people as a political tool.

[AlmightyTallest]

8. There are extremists

in all religions and in politics. There are always those few who make the rest look bad. Luckily most Jews still know not to trust the neo-cons and are some of the most reliable Democratic voters.

[Just Me]

25. Precisely. It's about political power-mongering; not race or religion.

But, boy o', they will pull out that Jewish persecution accusation everytime their extremism is revealed ("Whah,...you hate Jews?"). I get really P-O'd when they pull that manipulative emotional blackmail!! :grr:

[Bluestar]

7. Why Are We so Afraid of these People?

Watching David Frum, all I could think of was that he is not really that intelligent and certainly not very articulate. I don't believe these neocons are some kind of insurmountable force. I sense fear in all of their actions (i.e. the swagger, the bluster, the threats). If we treat the things they say seriously, we are giving them power. Things can change so quickly, and seeing David Frum's act tonight and watching people like Tom Delay and cat-killer Frist perform this week, I think their power will diminish fairly soon.

We still have to be diligent and smarter than they are (not too difficult)and oppose what they are doing, but I think things are nearing the breaking point. It's always darkest just before the dawn. Just my two cents.

[lala_rawraw]

13. He is a low-level foot soldier...

Richard Perle and his friends like Sir Moody Stuart, and other notables are very intelligent and very focused on two things:

1). limited resources
2). resources cannot sustain planet's population

[ragin_acadian]

15. if you watch the party line turd-fondlers like frum on maher,

it is an interesting study in body language. notice that he was unable to make eye contact with Clark, but was able to look maher in the eyes. kind of like a child that is trying to gain favor in the eyes of a parent, while avoiding the gaze of a competitor. Wes, man that he is, looked like he was having a good time, un-threatened, totally confident in the face of an insect like frum.

frum's reliance on gesticulation is also a good indicator of someone who feels threatened. as much as we try to distance ourselves from animals, we still rely on the illusion of making ourselves larger with nonverbal movements like frum using his hand in chop-like movements while trying to defend his position.

i know that when sullivan, and other party line tow-ers have been on, they have all acted the same, using maher as a confirmation while avoiding the gaze of other panelists, wild non-verbals, and using repetitious verbals segregates such as um, uh, ah, um to force entry into the discussion.

so their talking heads seem to be at the breaking point when they are outside their element - and the facade is the last to go. so, Bluestar, come dawn, let's have some coffee!

[newyawker99]

20. Hi Bluestar!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Darth_Kitten]

24. I'll second that!!!

Welcome!! :D :D :D

[MsTryska]

21. re sensing fear.....

I have a feeling his whole book is about "why come folks aren't scared no more? we need more FEAR! You can't run a country without FEAR!"



makes me scared for more attacks.

[AlmightyTallest]

9. Whoops

Meant to be a response upthread.

[AlmightyTallest]

11. One nitpick here

Military service is mandatory in Israel. Now if you want to draw a parallel about the influence of right wing religion in the government....

[ragin_acadian]

17. well, i doubt sharon ever served in the israeli military,

but he's no doubt a "watch the birdy" holocaust victim. you can accomplish anything you want if you have a "watch the birdy" issue. taxes? watch the birdy - whoops, tax solution: everyone was watching the birdy while bush got rid of corporate taxes, taxes on dividends and wealth, and left the bulk of the tax burden on the bottom 90. sharon and the likud: watch the birdy - strengthened israel on the holocaust issue, turned the palestinians into the new pre-WWII jews. watch that birdy.

i don't want to draw a parallell about right wing religion in government. religion is the tool that keeps the poor from killing the rich, it always has been, and always will be, and applies to all religions.

unfortunately they go hand in hand. the rich always run the government, so they have to use religion to keep the poor from overthrowing the government. enter: religion. sky taxi. watch the birdy.

[Phoebe_in_Sydney]

18. you couldn't be more wrong about Sharon

He was famous General in the Israeli army. Or notorious might be a better word. He was a shoot first, ask questions later kind of guy.

I loathe the man, but you really make yourself seem ignorant saying you doubt if he ever served. As someone else mentioned up thread there's no point trying to draw chickenhawk parallels with the Likud party, because military service is compulsory in Israel.

It is, in fact, one of the reasons Arab terrorists argue that any Israeli citizen is fair game for terrorist attack, because all citizens of Israel are either past, present or future military. (Not saying I accept this justification, just pointing it out).

[Frederik]

19. Yup

He is responsible for quite a few war crimes as well, his involvement in the 1982 Phalangist massacre of Palestinians in Lebanon is pretty well documented, scorched earth tactics in Sinai when the Israelis withdrew from there following the Camp David agreement, and more.

[rockymountaindem]

22. He was also nearly killed by a severe wound in the stomach

during the Israeli war of Independence.

[loudsue]

27. Darn!

"nearly" is the sad part.

:kick:

[AlmightyTallest]

29. Yup

That was exactly my point. I'm not a fan of the current Israeli government, but Sharon's no Cheney, he has been in battle. It's kind of hard to avoid in an area that's basically been a constant war zone.

[ragin_acadian]

30. sorry, my bad.

i had a few drinks, and just started posting without doing any research.

on the flip side: the israeli's don't seem to have any argument about targeting palestinians, regardless of whether they are civilian or non. english cameramen are fair game too, apparently.

[lala_rawraw]

12. Um, this is NOT a Jewish thing...

Just like Condi is not a "black" thing. They have populated their staff to exploit all minorities by having people from those very minorities working against the good of their people or the general public.

NeoCons, by the way, may have Jewish names or black skin, but they are not interested in Jewish culture or black culture or anything having to do with the group they are affiliated with. They have last names and shades, but one agenda that has nothing to do with religion, ethnicity, etc. I respect your point. I simply have a problem with your phrasing on this.

[EFerrari]

14. I agree. But the worst thing tonite was/is

(watching again) Mr. Frum defend "don't ask, don't tell". How many gay homophobes can this administration collect? It's just horrible.

I just wonder what on earth is the hold they have over him or wha???!!

[Selatius]

16. I have a problem with people who are sick with power and control

I don't give a damn if they're Jewish or not. If they want to reduce human life down into simple numbers or dehumanize those they oppress or manipulate or exploit them, the message is this: We will fight with you. I'm talking about every conscientious citizen on the face of earth who knows the score. I'm talking about the muckrakers digging up the dirt on the bad guys and the folks fighting racism and bigotry to the heroes who stand up for workers worldwide.

If they're Jewish and they use the "anti-semitism" card on me for not being afraid to call them out, I say they should look in the mirror and ask who has become the jack-booted, goose-stepping nazi!

[Darth_Kitten]

23. David Frum is a pitiful excuse for a man.

:(

[Strelnikov_]

26. One Of The Most Nonsensical Frumisms To Date

was when they were discussing assault weapons, and how availability in America has been discussed by terrorist groups. All of the other panelists were arguing that restricting assault weapons is a security issue. Frum was basically spinning the assault weapon issue so as to support their GOP patrons, the NRA.

Frum the Magnificent pointed out that "when terraists do the terrible thing we are trying to prevent them from doing the weapon of choice is not going to be firearms".

I guess the dipshit has never heard of Beslan.

(Also, Friedman the Far Seeing was particularly illuminating during his pontification on the state of the world as seen through his rose colored glasses).

[loudsue]

28. Friedman is stoooopid!

How he made a name for himself is beyond me. He's incredibly short-sighted. We've got regular, non-famous posters on DU who run circles around any talent Friedman is supposed to have.

:kick:

[Lisa]

31. I'm sorry to say he's Canadian

We would love for you to have him, but I suppose we should face up to the fact that we created a monster!