Does it enrage anyone else that Rudolph is spared from the death penalty..

[Runcible Spoon]

while Scott Peterson gets lethal injection? Am I drawing a tenuous connection when I see unequal media attention paid to each? Is it disengenuous to suggest that one got the death penalty because he is a "babykiller" while the other was spared because he bombed abortion clinics, gay bars, and the Olympics? The sick thing is Rudolph's confession saved him, whereas Peterson's maintaining his innocence and the reliance on circumstantial evidence sent him to death row. Personally I don't agree with the death penalty in ANY case, but the unequal application of this severe sentence bothers me, especially considering the difference in scope of the crimes of each man.

I don't want this thread to turn into a flamefest, nitpicking all the details of the evidence. I am more interested in a discussion of cultural bias and media sensationalism. As it stands now, MSNBC knocked the Rudolph story to the side so that the silicone implant story now has top billing: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

**edited for clarity, and detail..

[wakeme2008]

1. But you will notice the MSM layed his good luck on his anti-DP attorney

:grr:

[Runcible Spoon]

4. that's also enraging.

I know lawyers are supposed to work for their clients, but to suggest that a good lawyer was teh only reason for an outcome just speaks volumes about how unequal representation is.

[benddem]

2. NO

cause I think the death penalty is immoral. He has info on the creeps who hid him all those years also.

[Runcible Spoon]

5. I also think the death penalty is wrong.

what I'm interested in is justifying WHY it is applied in one case and for not another, arguably more heinous crime.

[deadcenter]

74. my opinion

Rudolph gets life because he plea bargained while Peterson went to trial.

I think the bargain was offered because the administration wants the whole thing out of the news as fast as possible so that they don't have to explain why they spent millions looking for him only to have a rookie cop bust him while he was rooting through a dumpster. The last thing the Feds want is for a defense attorney to bring out that little embarrasing tidbit.

Anti-death penalty but not for moral reasons. I think it's unconstitutional as applied in our society. Race, in my opinion, doesn't matter, money does. If you have enough, you don't get the needle. Case in point, Peterson had some money but not a lot. The Menendez brothers had 10+ million in the bank when they went to trial. They killed their allegedly abusive parents with shotguns, shooting them so many times they had to leave so they could reload. No death penalty for them. Money talks. Take the same circumstances, allegedly abusive parents, but instead of a millionaire pulling the trigger, make it some poor dumb white guy from the wrong part of whatever town, city, state, community you live in. He'd fry in a heartbeat (after 12-14 years of appeals anyway).

The constitution guarantess equal protection under the law and the justice system we have today is anything but equal.

deadcenter

[FreedomAngel82]

75. Exactly

When I was younger I used to think it was race too but now I know it's so not the case. All you have to do is look at our dear leader for that example.

[Bridget Burke]

88. I also oppose the death penalty. And not all the reasons are "moral"....

For example--would Timothy McVeigh have gotten bitter after rotting in jail for years? Would he have told more of what he knew if he hadn't been allowed to end it quickly?

[R. A. Fuqua]

3. I was raised by a liberal family

who did not believe in the death penalty.

I think this bomber guy is getting an appropriate punishment--in my opinion it is Scott Peterson who is NOT getting an appropriate punishment.

Scott Peterson should get prison for life--not lethal injection. Locked away in jail he would never be a threat to anyone else and he would be punished more than adequately (if he is indeed guilty of the crime--I did not follow that trial at all).

[Runcible Spoon]

6. OK- please re-read my OP

I also think the DP is wrong. But I would like people's opinions on WHY it was given in one case and not another.

[benddem]

7. they made a deal with him

he had info the feds wanted and the lawyer used it. This is why only poor people and blacks get the death penalty.

[Runcible Spoon]

9. I thought we didn't negotiate with terrorists in this country

:sarcasm:

[ComerPerro]

15. You shouldn't have put the sarcasm icon in that post

Becuase, you are exactly right. We do not negotiate with terrorists. And this man is clearly a terrorist.

[Runcible Spoon]

16. It's infuriating.

obviously he is the "right" kind of terrorist: white, fundamentalist, abortion/gay hating....fuck in some circles he's an outright fucking hero :grr:

[FreedomAngel82]

78. That's what makes me mad

That's what pisses me off. He's just like Timothy McVeigh.

[Erika]

11. Agreed

and this guy was anti-semite, anti-black, and only wanted to tell the world abortion was wrong. He was anti-civil rights all the way. But he is spared the death penalty?

[Runcible Spoon]

12. but where is the outrage in MSM?

Why aren't we going live, uninterrupted, to interviews with the families of the victims? Terry Schiavo got 100X this much media coverage.

[Erika]

60. Terri was a white Catholic

[Runcible Spoon]

68. gotcha.

so was the Pope....sensing a trend...

[Toots]

92. You started your post with the question is anybody else upset

That would tend to indicate that you are upset he didn't get the death penalty. How can you be upset he didn't get death and then say you are opposed to the death penalty. Your logic seems not...

[Radical Activist]

8. 5 out of the last 6 terrorist attacks on US soil were by conservatives

White, Christian American conservatives. So why is it that left wing peace, environmental and animal rights groups get monitored by the FBI and police more than pro-life and conservative anti-government groups? Yes, there are many double standards.

This is getting less coverage because it was a conservative and it makes the protestant Christian majority in America look bad.

[Runcible Spoon]

10. he cut a deal over 250 lbs of dynamite

any redneck militiaman worth his salt has at least that much :evilgrin:

[Radical Activist]

19. Heck, my cousin billy joe has that much

in his basement!

Note to The Man: I'm kidding!

[Runcible Spoon]

30. AGENT MIKE!!! AGENT MIKE!!! WE'VE GOT A LIVE ONE!!!

:evilgrin:

[Radical Activist]

40. hehehe

Don't make me tell them what you did in Arkansas. That shit ain't legal in the south!

[Runcible Spoon]

44. DAMMIT RA!!!

I TOLD you NOT to tell them I took an illegal vibrator across state lines! :spank:

[Radical Activist]

45. oh come on! I know vibrators

are only the start of it! ;)

[Runcible Spoon]

46. quit hijacking my SERIOUS thread, smartass!

you can start something in the lounge :evilgrin:

[Zynx]

76. Is Agent Mike our pet?

[FreedomAngel82]

79. A pet?

Can we play dress up with him? ;) J/k.

[The Stranger]

93. But the Condi said that they do not "negotiate with terrorists"?

[ComerPerro]

65. 6 of the last 6 were by rightwing religious fundamentalists.

[Egalitariat]

95. How do you come up with that?

Is the native American teenager who shot up the school in Minnesota the 1 out of 6 not committed by a white conservative? Or is it the DC Sniper?

I'd like to see your list of the last 6.

[Radical Activist]

13. The difference in media coverage is more interesting to me.

Is the corporate media afraid of making white Christian conservatives look bad? When are the Republicans going to start screaming about this clear case of media bias?

[Runcible Spoon]

14. agreed. Notice how there are no interviews

with the 100 or so people who were injured, or the families of the victims, or sundry talking heads talking about the possible legal, moral, and ethical ramifications of this case.

[FreedomAngel82]

80. My reason

is because of how our dear leader is a self-proclaimed Christian. They know he really isn't one and yes it will give Christians a bad name. Of course the neocons have already done that with using the fundies. :mad:

[mmonk]

17. I was looking for torture

Oh yeah, I forgot. He's a domestic terrorist hitting abortion clinics, not a Muslim.

[Runcible Spoon]

20. yeah, WTF?

as long as we're using torture, why not torture this sack of shit instead of cutting deals with him? -not that I support torture or the DP; I am outraged at the unequal treatment of white fundie terrorists.

[Catt03]

18. No. But it does enrage me that he did not have a trial and

that his propaganda is on the front page.

[Runcible Spoon]

24. so you see no connection between

sensationalized "babykillers"/death penalty and white domestic terrorist/cut a sweet deal over DYNAMITE???

[Cuban_Liberal]

21. No one should be executed.

Capital punishment is a relic of a babaric past, and no society which dares to claim itself 'civilized' should employ it--- period.

[Runcible Spoon]

25. GRRR did ANYONE even read my post?

I am NOT saying that he should get the death penalty. I am questioning the unfair media attention and comparing it to the circus whihc helped get Peterson the DP.

[Cuban_Liberal]

33. Yes, I read it.

But I responded to the question posed in the subject line.

:)

[Runcible Spoon]

34. ummm...the question spilled over onto the body of the text.

since it was too long for the subject line. hence the "..." which indicates a continued and connected thought.

[Cuban_Liberal]

39. I'm aware of that.

:D

[Runcible Spoon]

42. oh, OK!

:hi:

[Zorra]

22. Bush will probably pardon Rudolph at the end of his WH Residency.

Just like his daddy pardoned all those other convicted RW criminals from the Iran-Contra debacles.

I don't believe in the death penalty for anyone, and don't have access to MSM except for the internet, but it sure seemed from my limited perspective that the Peterson case was a senselessly sensationalized media circus while the Rudolph case was almost like a cover-up.

[Runcible Spoon]

26. that;'s the impression that I get as well...

like I said in the OP, this story is eclipsed by silicone breast implants going back on the market :shrug:

[realFedUp]

23. I'm glad he'll be someone's bitch

ok, that wasn't a godly thought, but
I'm not for the death penalty...too easy a way out.
He can sit in his 4 x 6 vaingloriously til his last breath.

[Runcible Spoon]

27. I am ALSO not in favor of the DP

but from what I hear, he'll be isolated in a separate cell. Doesn't seem like much of a punishment for a guy who was a hermit anyway

[donheld]

28. Not at all

let him rot.

[Runcible Spoon]

31. ughh. maybe I'm not being clear enough...

I am trying to get at WHY this case was negotiated like this with relatively NO media storm. I am NOT advocating the DP, only askiing why is is OK in some cases and not in others.

[Radical Activist]

29. Should people who respond to a post without reading it be given the DP?

It seems like a common crime of idiocy.

[Runcible Spoon]

32. thanks, RA.

at a whopping 5 or 6 lines, shouldn't be all that intellectually taxing :eyes:

[riverwalker]

35. Nancy Grace had a fit about it

last night and asked an investigator how this happened. He said "the orders came straight from Washington" and he said it twice and was very emphatic that it came from the administration.

[Runcible Spoon]

38. that's FUCKED UP.

do you have a link, possibly? That would deserve its own thread!
:grr:

[unkachuck]

36. I guess I have to accept....

....that there must be a difference between a Christian terrorist and a Muslim terrorist....you know....he might be a terrorist, but he's our terrorist....

I think someone didn't want a lengthy trail showcasing the extreme right-wing fundies and some their anti-abortion tactics....

[Runcible Spoon]

41. "someone"

hmmm....

[tinonedown]

37. I'm not happy with it.

The Atlanta bombing - Olympics. A woman died. He deserves to cook as much as any other murderer.
Enraged? I guess you could say that too. The more I think about that woman that died.

[Runcible Spoon]

43. she wasn't the only one who died....

others died as well including a cop and scores were injured...he admitted to multiple bombings

[soothsayer]

48. Did he do it? Or just copping a plea to spare his life? Cops like

to tie up cases, you know, whether or not they always get it right.

Soon he'll plead to being the anthrax killer.

[Runcible Spoon]

50. wait a minute, you're questioning his guilt?

Links, please to any facts supporting this theory? I know we were robbed of seeing this go to trial, which it really should have.

[soothsayer]

84. Just not sure about the olympic one. Abortion clinic killing, yes!

But like you, I'd have liked to have seen the olympic park evidence and all that. Or was it all very clear back then (after they went after that poor guard). I'm always very suspicious when they could make a big, fat example of you but let you cop a plea instead.

[Swamp Rat]

47. No, but that's because I am against the death penalty for ANYONE.

The unequal application of the death penalty, or any other penalty really bothers me.

[Runcible Spoon]

49. bleh. I'm getting sick of people NOT READING the whole question

Dude, I'm not for it EITHER. please address my other points, PLEEEZZZ?

[Swamp Rat]

58. And my answer was "NO!"

"Does it enrage anyone else that Rudolph is spared from the death penalty.. while Scott Peterson gets lethal injection?." - No, it does not "enrage" me. The death penalty itself enrages me. Like I said above, unequal application of penalties for any crime really bothers me.

"Am I drawing a tenuous connection when I see unequal media attention paid to each?" - Yes, if this is all the information you are going to give.

"Is it disengenuous to suggest that one got the death penalty because he is a "babykiller" while the other was spared because he bombed abortion clinics, gay bars, and the Olympics?" - As far as I know, they are both killers. I have not distinguished the two in this respect.

"The sick thing is Rudolph's confession saved him, whereas Peterson's maintaining his innocence and the reliance on circumstantial evidence sent him to death row." - I do not know if this is true.

"Personally I don't agree with the death penalty in ANY case, but the unequal application of this severe sentence bothers me, especially considering the difference in scope of the crimes of each man." - *See above post.

"I don't want this thread to turn into a flamefest, nitpicking all the details of the evidence." - That is why I gave simple answers instead of breaking down your every sentence.

"I am more interested in a discussion of cultural bias and media sensationalism." - OK, give me some details... evidence. I know you said you did not want to give details, but I need more with which to work. "Cultural bias and media sensationalism" are concerns for me too, but in order to discuss this, I need more information like your concepts and examples of this phenomena.

edit: Rats can't spell

[Runcible Spoon]

61. thanks, that's better.

I know that most DUers are anti-death penalty. That's not what I was getting at. The DEARTH of examples of the Rudolph conviction is the detail that you are asking for...THIS is what concerns me!

[Swamp Rat]

63. "Rudolph the Bomber" is certainly one, scary creature.

He (and probably the wackos who support him) should never be allowed freedom in society ever again. :scared:

[Runcible Spoon]

64. it's scary to think that there are prollly thousands of them

holed up in shacks and caves...armed to the teeth with heavy weaponry and an unhealthy paranoia....:scared:

[REP]

51. No; I'm Pissed Because A TERRORIST Got Off With Life

This isn't case where the treatment of another case justifies outrage; Rudolph is a terrorist, plain and simple. I believe that all terrorists should be treated alike, and since there's a declared 'war on terrorism' with stiff penalties, this man, who killed an off-duty police officer, should be subject to the harshest penalties allowed by law.

[Runcible Spoon]

52. I understand that outrage

I;m curious as to just HOW this case got dealt with so calmly and quietly...who is behind this?

[REP]

53. Good Question

And why isn't he at Gitmo?

[Stuckinthebush]

54. Hell...Eric will be wishing that the death penalty had been given

when he is 85 years old and rotting in a cell with nothing but his hate and memories.

That, my friend, is true hell.

Mr. Peterson will long ago be released from his guilt and imprisonment by the State which, in its "wisdom", decided that killing him was punishment.

Ask any lifer and they will tell you about the hell they live through every day.

The world changes...you stay the same except for creeping age
The world changes...you see the same four walls
The world changes...you are forgotten
The world changes...your friends and family never visit anymore and have moved on
The world changes...you wake up to the same greasy spot on the aging ceiling of your cell
The world changes...you never experience love, or hope, or pure joy
The world changes...you get a card one day saying your father died
The world changes...you get a card one day saying your mother died
The world changes...you get a card one day saying your sibling has died
The world changes...you die an old man and are but a footnote to history

At least those who are given the death penalty are engaged in a fight to the end which gives them something besides passive nothingness.

God......I can feel the despair by just writing this.

No, Mr. Rudolph is not getting away with murder, he will live a miserable existence the first half which will be marked by constant fear, and the last half in constant despair.

Goodbye Mr. Rudolph you sad, pathetic fool.

As to your question about how a baby killer gets death and a terrorist gets life - since our country equates the ultimate punishment with the death penalty, I think that it is not too far fetched to say that the sick twisted fans of Mr. Rudolph will see this as winning. He didn't get the death penalty, so he must be at least a little right...right? I'm sure some will see it that way.

[Runcible Spoon]

55. but what about the hush hush quick deal that was cut...

you don't think there is anything suspicious there?

[Stuckinthebush]

57. Highly

See my edit above.

I think that the justice department has people that tow the religious right line and are trying to make a symbolic statement.

[Runcible Spoon]

62. OK, thanks

for clarifying! I'm sorry if I come off short sometimes, I was bewildered when I heard he was having a deal cut. I don't want him dead, but I would have preferred the people try him.

[Stuckinthebush]

81. If he gets a trial

then the public sees how completely messed up he is which will really hurt the anti abortion crew. It will be a show trial like the Peterson thing, and that will highlight the terrorist nature of his actions which the administration and anti abortion group want to avoid.

Another problem with a trial is that once a trial starts, all bets are off on his being forced to discuss those individuals who were supporters. Imagine how embarrassing that could get for those aligned with his "cause".

[Logansquare]

56. I'm always outraged at the arbitrariness of the death penalty

Heinous crimes with intent can get life, while clearly retarded or insane people can get death. It all depends on whether you killed a pretty young girl or a ragged prostitute, or if your defense attorney is incompetent, or if you have something the prosecutor wants really badly, like the location of additional evidence. If this country threw away the death penalty, it would in fact disempower murderers who continue to manipulate and bargain even in custody.

To say I'm outraged specifically at Rudolph vs. Peterson would be an exaggeration; I'm too used to it to be shocked by these individual disparities.

[Runcible Spoon]

59. I guess it's a sad reality...

white fundie terrorists get deals cut, minorities and the poor get lawyers who fall asleep during trial, among other things

[Horse with no Name]

66. Get with the program here

It's that Cult of Life stuff we hear about.:sarcasm:
Read my lips...no white man is gonna burn in the south for killin them baby killin whores and niggas.
We ought to just put a medal on his chest and call it a day, but we gonna have to at least make it look good til Bubba get outs of office and can grant him one of those there pardons. Hell it'll just give him plenty of time to write a "How To" book on how to deal with these necessary evils in our morally corrupt society....spit...:puke: :sarcasm:

Truly, not in support of the DP, but the fact that this "real" terrorist has been relegated behind fake boobs pretty much shows the pulse of the American public.
They would rather chase the boogyman OBL than deal with what is in our own backyard.

[Runcible Spoon]

67. thanks for weighing in, Horse with no Name.

I guess Muricans would rather stake out wetbacks on the border than deal with our homegrown problems. :grr:

[Horse with no Name]

69. Well personally I think there is more to that story than meets the eye

Seems awfully funny to me that the Minutemen go to the border, border patrol increases 50 men to the border, Vincente Fox sends troops to the border....all after a meeting with the resident in chief.
THEN major political unrest in Mexico City, Mexico travel advisories, and a coup all in the same period of time. Hundreds of thousands of Mexican nationals marching for freedom in the capitol city, et al.
Sounds like it is a sealing of the borders in the worst way.:(
They are on the verge of another revolution in Mexico and * and Fox knew it and used the American's fear of illegal immigrants to justify the actions.
I dunno, but I grew up thinking this was the land of immigrants.:shrug:

[Runcible Spoon]

70. ohhh yes indeed there is more to that story...

but notice how MSM focused on the Minutemen rather than on the political discontent in Mexico.....

[Horse with no Name]

73. Yup

and I only saw it on one station about the travel advisories in Mexico. Seems we should be concerned about our neighbors down there and not be treating them as enemies.

[Runcible Spoon]

71. thanks for everyone's input.

I'll kick this tomorrow if anyone wants to continue..especially with any new developments in MSM....good night...

[WillowTree]

72. On general principle, the death penalty is wrong for anyone.

Having said that, though, if Peterson has a brain in his head (and I've seen no evidence that he does), once he was convicted, he should have been praying for the death penalty and should now be thanking his lucky stars that he got it, if for no other reason than he gets two automatic appeals if the sentence is death. He'll be far more comfortable, not to mention that he'll be able to sit far more comfortably, on Death Row than if he'd found himself playing Amber to all the Bubbas in the general population. Chances are he'll live longer on Death Row, too. At the rate things happen, he'll be in his mid-fifties before anyone even thinks about putting a needle in his arm and a lot can happen in that amount of time, meanwhile he's spending about 23 hours a day in a private cell, protected from all those icky guys who probably scare the shit out of him.

[Technowitch]

77. I'd just as soon nobody got the death penalty

Just because one person gets it and another gets life, doesn't mean that the problem is that both didn't get death.

In other words, capital punishment for one high profile case really ought not result in having it ladled around like soup for everybody.

The real solution is no capital punishment for anyone. Less damaging to our culture. It's more fair. Plus it allows for the possibility of proving one's innocense -- and there have been entirely too many innocent people executed by mistake.

But that's just me. Which basically means I agree with you, by the way. I think this is just further proof as to the inherent unfairness and inequality of it.

[LdyGuique]

82. No, I'm opposed to the death penalty

I consider it to be a barbaric practice.

Do I wish that Rudolph would suffer a stroke and be incapcitated -- croaking out sounds? Oh yeah!

Do I wish that Rudolph would be let out into general prison populatioin and forced to mix with his nightmare -- other races in the prisonyard political system? Nawww -- he'd be adopted as a hero by some white supremecist group as a poster boy.

I'm satisfied that the plea bargain both got him 4 consecutive life sentences and got 200# plus of dynamite into custody.

[dsc]

83. Not enough info yet

Until I see the info the government got in return and know the strength of the case, without his admission, then I can't form a rational opinion. I am not saying he didn't do it, but do wonder how strong the court case would have been. Time will tell.

[shadowknows69]

85. I think he deserves it but....

I KNOW we don't want this guy becoming a martyr.

[Charon]

86. Enraged

No. Do not support the death penalty.

[mattclearing]

87. I don't believe in the death penalty.

That said, I was impressed that they cut a deal with cop killer/terrorist. Don't see that happen every day.

[AussieDave]

89. I am in favor of the death penalty only

when it can be proved beyond any shadow of doubt that a person is guilty. I know that's a tall order and a lot of times there can't be 100% certainty - if not, that's what "life without parole" is for.

As for Eric Rudolph - the difference between him and Scott Peterson seems to be that Rudolph had all these explosives hidden everywhere that the cops had to find. I think it's rather a small price to pay, knowing that Rudolph may live to a ripe old age seeing every twisted thing he stands for comprehensively rejected by the American public.

He's incapable of remorse, but I reckon sometimes stewing in prison for many years can be a greater punishment than a needle in the arm.

To answer the question - I'm NOT enraged - long may Rudolph rot in prison before he rots in hell.

[leesa]

90. No. I disagree with the death penalty.

[imenja]

91. My immediate response was yes

I thought, if that's not a death penalty case, what is? But then I had to check my instinct for vengeance, because I oppose the death penalty, and won't advocate for state-sanctioned murder of anyone.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

94. No. I am against the death penalty under any circumstance. n/t

[Discord]

96. He should be shipped to Guantanomo to spend his

days with other terrorists.

[supernova]

97. Rudolph also had explosives buried

near Murphy, very near the the HQ for the search for his very self!

There was a possiblity of an ongoing crime. Whoever he was working with could just pick up where he left off. The feds got the info so (hopefully) no future crimes could be committed with that ammo; he got life.

Fair trade? Only time will tell.

It does bug me that we don't call him a terrorist though. Because he certainly is. The only difference between Al-Zarqarwi and Rudolf is in matters of degree. They both see violence as a way to enforce their worldview.

edit: I'm anti DP, so I'm ok with a life sentence. But remember, he's also benefitting from the recent revelations that the DP is dispproportionately applied because he's white, though arguably poor.

[Bouncy Ball]

98. Actually, it enrages me that a supposedly "civilized" country

uses the death penalty at ALL.

[New Dealer]

Deleted

[New Dealer]

99. He should be executed

[New Dealer]

100. Deleted

Sorry, I pushed the button multiple times