Thoughts on AAR/XM/Sirius.... Don't cut your nose off to spite yourself..

[Rosco T.]

Ghod.. watching the venom spewing around people need to take a step back and chill a bit. This news is less than 24 hours old and we DON'T know everthing yet.

Some thoughts. Part fact, part speculation, part intitution, part frustration.

1. Can we PLEASE STOP THIS "CLEAR CHANNEL OWNS/CONTROLS XM" Bullspit? I'm tired of posting the DOCUMENTATION and Links that disprove that. They don't. XM was (may still be) leasing some ground repeater sites and have a marketing agreement to promote XM at some Clear Channel venues (concerts, etc..) but CC IS NOT PROGRAMMING OR CONTROLLING XM PROGRAMMING. Got it?

2. Ok, it's an exclusive deal. If AAR is going to survive AS A BUSINESS, then they have to make BUSINESS DECISIONS. Let's say XM offered them 4 times the current arrangement in exchange for the 'exclusivity'. Watched 'Left of the Dial'?? Do so and then kevtch about 'money'. We NEED AAR as a HIGH PROFILE ENTITY OVER THE NEXT THREE YEARS (and beyond). People say not to shop at Wal-Mart even if it costs more, same here.. put the PRINCIPLES above the POCKETBOOK for a few minutes and think. XM is the higher profile name, XM has more subscribers (yes, I kno.. they are losing a potential 1.4 million, XM added 560,000 in the last quarter, take that growth and the sub count is moot by end of the year, if not sooner, I believe XM estimates give it 3.8 million subs today.. and look at the stock prices, XMSR 3.04, SIRI 5.1, which is the stronger company?). Also remember XM is signing up more and more AUTOMAKERS to make XM standard (Honda, GM, Hyundai, Toyota) and more are coming. That's another potential who knows how many subs.

3. "WAHHH.. I just bought Sirius equipment!" Well, shit happens. If they had announced it a week earlier then you would still have people bitching, same for a month earlier, a month later. People are whining about their VOOM HDTV equipment that they bought.. VOOM goes dark May 1. Their equipment is now WORTHLESS unless someone offers them a credit for it to switch to another service. You can at least sell the Sirius equipment or still use it for something else. NASCAR people are upset that SIRIUS outbid XM for the rights starting in '07. Are they quitting being NASCAR fans? No, they'll get a Sirius in '07. Some will keep XM, some won't.

4. "WAHHH.. XM isn't carrying all of AAR". Yet. Come one folks.. let's have some common sense here. XM has been getting hammered about not carrying all of Randi and Mike almost since they day they went on the air... what people don't realize, or don't know, or don't care to consider is that as of today, the ONLY AAR programming that XM isn't carrying is 2 hours of Randi and Mike. They have everythign else, all the weekend shows. If people bother to read the press release on XM's site, it says "an EXPANDED Air America schedule.... INCLUDING Rachael Maddow's New show AMONG OTHERS". EXPANDED. AMONG OTHERS. What others are there??? XM isn't stupid.. they will have to step UP to get people to MOVE OVER.

5. "WAHHH... they are saying Ed Schultz and Alan Colmes are still there.." Yup, it does.. and some people would be ticked if Ed got dumped (and maybe one or two if they dumped Colmes). That dosen't mean that they will CONTINUE to be on the "Air America" channel. Stop and think a minute... when you contact AAR they say they will be off in 90 days... the XM press release says this is effective May 1. A LITTLE BIRD TELLS ME (no, I can't say more than that) is that before the 90 days is up, but after May 1, you will most likely see channel 168 'lite up' on XM as "America Left" (XM owners will know that channel is currently unused) with Schultz, Colmes and others over there. If you were to stop and think about the way business worked YOU HAVE TO MOVE ON THINGS ONE STEP AT A TIME. Once the AAR 'exclusive' deal was made, they can then finish 'stocking' 168 (hello Stephanie, Thom and others).. btw Sirius folks.. like the way they have whacked Thom down to 1hr a day... that's an hour less than Randi on XM).

6. "WAHHH... they're selling out".. or maybe they are strengthing their position.. It's gonna take money and resources to stay afloat and complete with the wingnuts... part of the deal is giving AAR access to the XM STUDIOS IN WASHINGTON DC. In the beltway. Puts AAR right in the thick of the snake pit so to speak, gives them ACCESS to the people in DC, easier than waiting till they come to New York, better access, infinitely better equipment. Mark my words.. I expect AL to move his show to DC before the '06 elections and at least one more before '08.

7. "WAHHH.. I can't afford another radio".. that is a real concern, but again I say WAIT A LITTLE BEFORE PANICKING. You can get a refund on unpaid Sirus service. You can sell the Sirus equipment. and expect to see XM have a SMOKING EQUIPMENT OFFER SHORTLY. When Opie & Anthony went to XM and started their channel, you could get an XM deal for a Home or Car setup for $50. Same for NASCAR. Hell's bells, there was just a deal a couple weeks ago on Amazon for a SkyFi2 for $50 (my fourth radio). every few months they will have a 'Friends & Family' deal with very INEXPENSIVE equipment (last time, I got a SkyFi2, Boombox and Car Kit w/3 months prepaid service for < $100 SHIPPED). Look around on eBay, you can find SkyFi units with home/car or boombox for < $75 (SkyFi is the previous model to the SkyFi2). Check www.xmfanstore.com for good deal on new equipment.

BOTTOM LINE in the immortal words of Douglas Adams

DON'T PANIC

the 'overlap' that looks like between May 1 and 90 days will give people time to see how it shakes out and how the lineups will be, but slinging shit at AAR and XM now is doing nothing but causing heartburn and polarizing us...

DON'T PANIC

[ET Awful]

1. Well said.

And, as I said before, I already know of a place to get a Roady2 sytem for XM with the car adtapters, etc. for $50 plus shipping. I'll probably go ahead and pick one up in the not too distant future.

[Rosco T.]

2. Thanks... so much being slung I had to try to put some perspective on it .

[BeeBee]

3. Hey Rosco T.

You seem to know quite a bit about this whole thing. Any truth to the rumors that Sirius and XM are going to merge?

[MsTryska]

9. Not unless XM gts the lion's share of the market

and eats sirius. and it's way too early to tell if that will happen.

[BeeBee]

12. I heard rumblings months ago, not just because of this. n/t

[Rosco T.]

14. As of now, XM 3.8 million subs, Sirius 1.4, XM adding 540k per quarter.

[MsTryska]

20. exactly.....

i'd give sirius a bit to catch up first....this is still a growing market.


remember when apple was THE personal computer?

[Rosco T.]

13. As of right now...

.. I would not expect it any time soon. It could make good 'business sense' but not 'hardware sense'. They would STILL have to maintain both sets of uplinks, both sets of birds.

If they did an equipment swapout (ie. decomission the Sirius equipment and offer an exchange for the equivalent XM equipment) that would cost a bundle.. and cause more than a few headached in the 'in-dash' equipment. Not to say they would not do that, but I don't think it's a high probablity

It was recently reported to the FCC that XM/Sirus are at work on UNIVERSAL RECEIVERS that can receive either or BOTH services (just a different antenna connection/demuxer). Once that happens.. then I could expect to see more serious talks in that area...

[BeeBee]

16. Thanks! n/t

[Cooley Hurd]

4. Well, they're losing a million + listeners right out of the gate...

Fuck XM, I'm staying with Sirius.

[xultar]

DAMN Straight! n/t

[Rosco T.]

30. A Million + POTENTIAL listeners.... n/m

[shoelace414]

5. Sirius is losing AAR?

I haven't seen that from any reputiable sources.. but I haven't looked that hard.

[ET Awful]

7. Would you consider a phone call I placed to AAR corporate headquarters

a reputable source? According to the person I spoke with at AAR, they will be off of Sirius 90 days from now.

[MsTryska]

6. speaking of hitchhiker's guide...

the movie is coming out any day now..i'm so excited.



also y'all - please don't kill me for owning stock in Time-Warner.


I'm kind of excited now that this affiliation has coem through. I can't wait until AAR goes public (if they ever do) because i'll be buying stock in them too.

[Hugin]

8. That about covers it...

Thanks Rosco T...

Only thing I might add... Hopefully, Sirius will see the
handwriting on the wall and develop their very own flock
of liberal talk hosts.

If this is done... Guess what! It doubles the amount of
liberal radio! No kidding!

;)

[xultar]

18. What you are missing is Sirius already had 2 Liberals channels

AAR was one.

IF you purchased it for AAR and AAR is gone then what do you listen to?

YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!!!

The primary point is to support AAR.

[LoZoccolo]

10. If Halliburton is going to survive AS A BUSINESS...

...then they have to make BUSINESS DECISIONS. If they have to use their influence with the Vice President to get no-bid contracts, they can make a lot of money!

[xultar]

19. Halliburton though they signed acontract to feed the troops good food

it's o.k. to feed them pb&J and water because it's cheaper.

Halliburton deserves to make business decisions that are good for them. They deserve to make a buck.

Right!

Despite the fact that the troops signed up to be treated and fed appropriately.

hummm?

[davepc]

25. wow, great analogy!

Which entity in the XM/Sirius/Air America situation is the United States government?

When you've got your Socalist Workers Paradise set up and running where people do 'the right thing' for the greater good of mankind or whatever, and not because of enlightened self interest let the rest of us know.

[LoZoccolo]

26. Bah

I'm not taking the analogy that far. I'm just saying you can't say that what's good business is gonna turn out the best thing, I didn't say anything about tearing down the whole system for a new one. I might have to accept this thing, but I don't have to like it.

[LoZoccolo]

31. What we're doing here is actually being very capitalist.

We're being dissatisfied consumers exercising our choice.

[progressiveboston]

11. Here's my response from Sirius

See Below...
I would hang in there and see what happens. I will be pissed that I'll have to buy new equipment, but I will if I have too.

Dear Justin,

Thanks, we got your email! At SIRIUS, we appreciate the time you have
taken to contact us regarding Air America. We regret to inform you
that
XM will begin broadcasting Air America in May of this year. At the
current time it is unaware if we will continue broadcasting Air America
as well or not. We can assure you that we will be doing everything in
our power to retain Air America for as long as possible. We sincerely
apologize for any inconvenience or frustration that may be caused to
you
due to this.

We hope this answers all of your questions! If you have any further
questions or concerns however, feel free to contact our customer care
center. Our customer care center is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a
week for your convenience at the following number:

1-888-539-SIRIUS (7474)
[e-mail]

We are dedicated to providing quality service and customer
satisfaction.
We encourage comments on how we can improve our service.

Sincerely,

Jack
SIRIUS Customer Care Agent

Visit us on the web at sirius.com

[tridim]

15. If I bought a PC and one day MS decided to make PC's run only Mac software

I'd be pissed too. I'm just mad because I wasted $300 on my Sirius receiver that will soon become a very expensive paperweight. I listen to AAR exclusively, about 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. It's the sole reason I chose Sirius. I'm holding out hope that AAR will renegotiate their deal with Sirius. I will NEVER support AOL/XM.

[Scout1071]

56. Amen. I'll be pissed if I want to because it's my money that just

went down the toilet.

I'm holding out for a bit longer because of my contract. I'm hoping that they will work things out. If they don't, I'm seriously going to have to consider my options.

And on a side note, does the author of this thread have Sirius?

[Rosco T.]

61. Nope.. I've had XM from day one....

.. well before AAR came along. I got XM for another show that is exclusive to XM (and haven't listed to a 'local' radio station in almost 3 years). One in each car, one at home, one at work.

If that one show decides to leave XM for Sirius, I'll get a single Sirius dockable and move it around.

[xultar]

17. GIVE ME A BREAK---SOME OF US BOUGHT SIRIUS JUST FOR AAR

That's the only reason I bought it.

I can't get AAR locally in my car nor in my home.

SO YES I'm Pissed. I DESERVE to BE PISSED. When you purchase a product for a specific reason and that reason goes a way but you're out the dough you should still be pissed.

If I had known I would have purchased XM because that is all I wanted AAR.


But since AAR dissed me I'm Dissin back. I'm not switching nor am I listening to AAR. I will force myself to listen to the Sirus Left offering in my car and on the web. I'll deal with it and oh well.

I got Sirius for AAR. But I'm staying with Sirius because AAR let me down. So out of the 1.2 million they lost one die-hard listener for sure.

[Rosco T.]

21. And some bought XM just for NASCAR...

things change in business. it's a way of life.

[LoZoccolo]

22. Some people who listen to NASCAR think we're DEMOCRAT BALLSUCKERS!

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/index.php?e=mrbergis-nascar.mp3

[Rosco T.]

28. And people that buy both services for FAUX and others think the same...

.. so what's your point?

[Hugin]

27. Actually, I bought XM for AAR...

XM had a "Left" channel several months before Sirius did.

If you don't believe me check out the channel listings.

It was almost *all* of AAR... 95% or so. Not to mention
initially it was "Commercial Free" except for the ads for
XM itself.

I think instead of a blind allegiance (RW style) to AAR
we should be supporting all liberal broadcasting. Encouraging
it's growth.

There's a couple of people I'm missing out on, Stephanie
Miller for example. Fine... Hopefully, someday, I'll be
able to hear her.

[cascadiance]

69. NO, you're wrong!

Sirius had Sirius Left way before XM had any left wing channel. You are right that XM started getting *Air America* first, and about the same week, Sirius adjusted it's Sirius Left schedule and bumped The Young Turks and Ed Schultz off of the night time slot to put in Alan Colmes. We were upset then, but then subsequently Sirius more than made up for it by having *two* progressive talk channels when they added AAR 24x7, something that I guess will never exist for us again with this move. Sigh...

Now AAR is forcing me to have to make a choice between getting one service with Stephanie Miller and Thom Hartmann and the other with the Air America hosts, or forcing me to have to buy into both services. That is just WRONG and *anti-competitive*. Any way you slice it, this was a step back for the progressive radio consumer, except perhaps a couple of additional hours of some additional hosts on XM. But that could have been done with f'ing over Sirius listeners.

If XM was purely trying to ante up competition-wise and Air America was forcing them to do so, then Air America should have demanded that XM minimumly put up another channel like Sirius has already done, and moved Ed Schultz and Alan Colmes over to that and perhaps even get some of the best talent like Thom Hartmann over onto this additional channel. That would have been a "competitive measure" and not an anti-competitive measure. Sirius listeners could have seen the business logic of this, and given them an avenue to not *lose* any of their service value, even if they might have to have a one-time expense of getting some newer equipment.

I've been toying with the idea of getting a portable unit like the XM MyFi and had hoped that the Iowa Hawkeyes would be also carried on Sirius and not just on XM like they are now for football and basketball games. I might have independently made the move to XM anyway, but didn't want to move to a substandard system towards getting progressive talk radio. If XM had been taking the "competitive approach", they'd have had the opportunity to win me over. Now they all appear to be forcing my hand here, which is not only ugly customer service-wise, but in a way that should be anti-thetical to what Air America's talent preaches and we believe in. I don't have to like it and I don't have to be quiet here about it!

[Hugin]

70. That's what I said...

"XM started getting *Air America* first"

So, how am I wrong?

My only point throughout this whole discussion has been
that by moving AAR to XM exclusively it opens up the
opportunity for Sirius to bring in additional liberal
radio. A move like that by Sirius would have me seriously
considering buying one of their sets.

No, I don't have Stephanie Miller or Thom Hartmann... yet.

It's unnerving for me to see all of these posts about
AAR or nothing... Like AAR is some kind of "touch stone".
What's progressive about that? Nothing as far as I can
tell.

Where's the big picture people? I don't always agree with
AAR and it's agenda. (Which I happen to recall is, "Getting
sued by Bill O'Reilly.") There were endless threads here at
DU about how little attention AAR paid to the Election
Irregularities. It would be nice to have something fresh to
tune to now and then. Staying on the left hand side of the
dial.

I agree that XM's exclusivity mandate is anti-competitive as
far as AAR is concerned. However, it's not anti-competitive
if Sirius makes an effort to fill their void with additional
liberal content.

"I don't have to like it and I don't have to be quiet here about it!"
Believe me, I'd be the last one to try to make you like it and
I'm glad you're speaking your mind on the subject. But, seeing
as neither of us controls AAR, XM, or Sirius, I think you and
I talking is about as far as it's going to go.

[cascadiance]

71. No...

Your words were:

"XM had a "Left" channel several months before Sirius did."

That's basically saying that XM was the service that started having a dedicated liberal talk radio channel, as if to say that those with Sirius shouldn't have to complain about losing something they could have *earlier* gotten with XM.

Sirius Left existed as a "left wing" dedicated channel *without AAR* a long time before XM had any sort of dedicated channel. Read my response. I'd bought into it very long ago. I remember when I first subscribed to Sirius (knowing that they had Sirius Left), that one of my questions asking them was whether they'd add "the new progressive network" (which was still being talked about and not Air America at the time) when it came out. They said they'd probably be adding it when it came around and that until then I had Sirius Left which XM didn't have. It all added up to Sirius having more committment up front to having what I wanted which is why I bought into it. That was also reinforced later when they got both channels and XM has had (*and will still only have from what's been announced*) only one channel.

So don't distort that I and other Sirius listeners got something we shouldn't have expected to get when we bought into Sirius's service. Most of us have bought into Sirius feeling that it was more dedicated to providing progressive talk options than XM did. Now Air America wants to say that those who made the "educated" choice of getting more liberal talk radio from Sirius are either a) wrong, or b) we don't care about you.

From a short term point of view, from Air America's point of view it might be a good "financial" move to do an exclusive with XM. But anyone that says it is a good "business" move is wrong. It's a customer relations disaster IMHO. They've suddenly fractured their user base and totally dismissed their most loyal and thinking of their fan base by saying to those that came to Sirius in the search of the most liberal talk possible, that you don't count. Being smart doesn't mean anything either. Being liberal and thinking that corporations shouldn't screw us doesn't mean anything. We're a business and we're going to make a profit off our listeners, and that's pretty much what we care about. Don't you see how in Air America's case that is a customer relations disaster? It's kind of like a bank opening up a vault with the money of it's biggest depositors in it and saying to others, "Once thieves clear out this money, now we'll have a lot more deposit space to add in newer depositors". It would totally violate what banks are supposed to be about.

Most users aren't going to want to have to get both services to get content they want to listen to. Just like before I don't want to have to get AAR on one service and then get the other service to listen to my colleges' basketball and football games. And worse, I don't want the landscape to be constantly shifting so that my investment in one is totally different than what I'd invested in. People don't want to have to get both setups, nor should they have to do so. That audience willing to get both services is far more narrow of an audience than even the satellite radio audience itself, let alone the masses that aren't currently on satellite radio. This uncertainty is totally telling the latter to stay away from this market. It's almost telling me to back away from it now. That's bad for the industry in general, just in the interset in trying to make a short term buck at the expense of alienating customers.

[xultar]

68. Then you oughta know what the eff I'm sayin. n/t

[Lex]

43. I agree with you, xultar.

I think Sirius will beef up its "Talk Left" station and provide a good alternative to AAR. AAR can go to hell.

[tsuki]

45. At our house, we are radio listeners. I bought it to get away from

the canned music from Clear Channel. (If it's two in the afternoon, it must be "What's Love Got to Do With It." I shall remain with Sirius, bought a lifetime. Yes, I like AAR, but I also like NPR, Talk Left, Jazz, Rock, Classical and all the other channels.

It was worth it.

[bbgrunt]

66. me too!!

I bought my mom an XM last may so she could listen to randi, only to find out that they didn't carry her and never put on Mike. I was so pissed, I went out and bought the full sirius stuff, put it in the car, got a boombox etc. Now I am not one to spend bucks on a lot of technology, but I felt happy that I could get AAR. It is the only thing I listen to on the radio. Now, to tell me that Sirius may no longer carry AAR really boils my blood!!

[XOKCowboy]

23. I agree totally..

This is DU. Our aim here is to further the Progressive agenda and AAR is a major part of that. To diss AAR is to diss our whole aim here on this website and what we're trying to accomplish overall. Let's cool down, send tons of emails to AAR, Sirius and XM (all polite but firm) and then see what happens.

On a side note... I'm damn glad I bought XM radio 2 years ago and I'm sticking with it.

[minerva50]

24. AAR has dissed us

[NYCGirl]

29. Don't be silly. AAR is trying to do what's right for its continued

existence. The marketplace is much larger than one person.

[minerva50]

32. I'm not being silly

Have some respect for another, please. There are a lot more people than myself who chose Sirius because they had the best coverage of Air America (though I've found a lot more to like there since). Air America is showing no appreciation of this fact and is turning away a lot of loyal listeners.

[NYCGirl]

34. They have no way of knowing who bought Sirius for AAR.

There is no way to tell. They are not dissing you.

[minerva50]

36. Just as much as you are!

[Pithlet]

51. How?

By adding over 3 million potential listners?

Look, I have both Sirius and XM. I don't want to see Sirius lose AAR. It would indeed suck for anyone who has only Sirius and bought it solely for that reason. But, how can you fault AAR for doing what it can to increase its listnership?

[Wheaty]

58. I have both too

I have both too Pithlet and plan on keeping Sirius as I like Talk Left and OutQ and am not arguing either way. But I just wanted to point out that technically AAR isn't "adding over 3 million potential listeners."

AAR is already on XM in some form so they have those 3 million potentials anyway. They are losing the Sirius listeners though in this move. Some Sirius only subscribers will probably not invest in XM equipment and a subscription. So in the short run it's a net loss of listeners for AAR.


Edit: Typos

[Pithlet]

64. I was under the impression

That this would be the full line up as opposed to what they've had in the past. I may be wrong, there. I figured if they're going with an exclusivity contract, that the full product would be offered. But, you're right. I would have been more accurate to say something like they plan to keep that listnership. Honestly, I wish they would/could stay with both Sirius and XM.

I don't blame those who bought Sirius for AAR being angry and upset about this. If I'd just bought Sirius for AAR alone, and then found out they were leaving, I wouldn't be happy. I just don't think it's fair to blame AAR for doing this, or withdraw any support of AAR over this. We just don't have enough outlets for our point of view to do that.

[MissWaverly]

33. wait can't we just subscribe to XM and listen on the computer

after I subscribed to Sirius, they said that I could log in the computer and listen just to put in my user number w/o having a radio. I assume that you can do the same with XM.

[Rosco T.]

35. Yes, you can, infact...you can buy a COMPUTER ONLY XM subscription...

no equipment needed at all.

http://xmro.xmradio.com/xstream/index.jsp

[MissWaverly]

47. thanks

will do, I have to listen my favorite Air America shows, thanks

[flyarm]

37. thanks rosco..only i have one objectionable comment...

no one listens to colmes...if they do..they need a brain transplant!!

lol...fly

[Rosco T.]

38. I shan't argue with that.... n/m

[flyarm]

41. think of it this way...

i have sirus , my husband has xm for baseball...give your hubby or boyfriend ( or sell it to them) in the football season!!

or what ever sport is on sirrus and not xm..


the big picture is we need air america to stay strong, and if that means they need to go for the big deal on xm..ohh well!
i hate the fact that i pay for crap on tv i dont watch..particularly fox..so i have kept them on child block for now over 2 years..but i am still paying for fox..ewwwwwwwww did i say that..i am paying for fox? excuse me i have to run to be sick........:puke:

we will all adjust to this..try selling your sirrus..and cancel your subsription..i will have to do that unless i give mine to my son ..or the neighbors kid...for other sports...

fly

[XOKCowboy]

46. Amen Fly

the big picture is we need air america to stay strong, and if that means they need to go for the big deal on xm..ohh well!

True words.. Don't forget that XM is providing office/broadcast facilities in Washington DC also. That's very important to AAR's mission.

[Rosco T.]

50. Pity more people can't see past the end of their noses...

.. that in the long term the goal is BREAKING THE REICH WING.. no matter what it takes. Having the DC Studio space is a MAJOR THING.

[Touchdown]

39. You sound like an XM employee/ marketer/ PR/propagandist.

You seem to be well versed (500,000) in how many subs XM is getting, but you conveeeeeniently omit how many Sirius is adding.

...besides, I like my Sirius, they've given me great service and I have reasons not to switch. The main one is that BMW doesn't have XM, they have Sirius. BMW knows quality, and their choice of sat services is an endorsement for me. Besides, you can't convince me that a GM, Toyota or those other pretend modes of transportation can even compare to my driving machine, so there!:P

Aftermarket recievers, you say? Have you ever heard a stock BMW stereo? Nuff said!

Yes, I was joking about the other car makes. I'm sure they're fine, but I have no intention of trading in my car.

[Rosco T.]

40. So.. because I try to take a reasonable outlook, wait and see and not....

... start slinging shit everywhich way, that makes me an XM employee/ marketer/PR/propagandist??

Reading your message, who do you work for? Sirius or BMW :D

[Touchdown]

44. AT&T, ask the anti-union DUers around here.

Especially on the sorely mis-named "Economic activism and progressive living" forum.

Opening every point with "WHAAAAAAA!" "Get over it" is not taking a reasonable approach. It's bullying, dismissive and condescending (PR). Bragging about how great XM is compared to Sirius is not taking a reasonable approach, its marketing(Employee/marketer). Saying you take a reeasonable approach is spinning (Propagandist).

[Rosco T.]

48. Oh give it a rest...

would it be better to start every point with varitations of the things that have gone on the last 24 hours..

"FUCK SIRIUS!"

"THE HELL WITH AAR!"

"SCREW BOTH OF THEM!"

guess it's ok when you want to complain and not when you try to persent a rational approach..

Show me where I was 'bragging' about "how great XM is".

Trying to make any opinion you don't agree with and want to call " bullying, dismissive, condescending and bragging" seems kind of Propagadist to me...

or just plain old closed minded and unreasonable.

Think what you want...

[Touchdown]

73. Dismissive again?

Look, people spent real money on this equipment, and although I agree that we should all wait until we see where the chips fall, it's not entirely sympathetic to people who just may not be able to afford to trash perfectly useable radios, and fork over more money on another. You don't know what these people can and cannot afford, so it's your attitude that I have a problem with, not the quite valid points about calming down that you made.

Once again, I do agree on many points, but your verbiage is confrontational, and unnecessarily dismissive.

[MsTryska]

49. to be honest i'm not quite sure why anyone is angry with AAR either....

it's not liek they intentaionally set out to hurt y'alls feelings by switching. They jsut get more coverage, more name recognition and bigger slice of the satellite pie.



should AAR be a successful tool for change? or should it be there to service what suits YOU best?

[flyarm]

53. ouch..i am a life long union employee..

of the airlines...please..do not play that..its not right!

and i see the big picture for the viability of air america being here for the long haul..

i see airline people loosing their jobs in record numbers..its tough today for finacial viability..so please do not lump all of us union people in with your comments..i do not care to be lumped with your opinion.
thank you!

fly

[Touchdown]

74. Being a union member has nothing to do with it.

He asked me if I worked for BMW or Sirius, I was just being honest. I was put off by his unnecessarily paternalistic tone, not the salient points he made. Still, he tries to make me out to be the bad guy, to give himself an excuse to continue.

[Scout1071]

59. I agree. His condescending lecture only pissed me off more.

[KoKo]

63. Will Ed Schultz and Stephanie Miller still be on Sirius? I was ready

to buy my Sirius Sattelite Boom Box two weeks ago... but then started reading and worried about XM taking it all over.

Now I read that Sirius can't carry AAR anymore and I wonder. I don't care for AAR...liking Stephanie and Ed more to listen to for my individual tasts.

Which of the two sattelites carry them? :shrug: Jones Network is their sponser, I believe.

[yellowjacket]

65. Anyone who works in telecom/media industries

get a daily XM vs. Sirius update in their issue of Communications Daily. There is new info on the battle virtually everyday including subscriber numbers, insider info, equipment interoperability updates, talks of advertising schemes, car manufacturer deals, etc. From the press generated, it seems XM is winning handily at this point. In the interest of disclosure, I have XM.

[Rosco T.]

67. ahyup.... n/m

[Touchdown]

75. Anyone, really? I work in Telecom, and haven't seen anything...

on the subject. Communications Daily? What's that?

[Rosco T.]

42. ONE MORE THOUGHT on why money does mattter...

How many thousand people are streaming AAR from their site? Are you paying for it? Someone is. Bandwidth costs money...

[Eric J in MN]

57. They have ads on the internet stream.

That should pay for at least some of that cost.

Maintaining a radio transmitter also costs money, and the radio broadcast has ads.

[KittyWampus]

52. So What IS Sirius' Subscription Growth Like In Comparison?

Anyone?

[Rosco T.]

54. If I recall correctly (I don't have the reference handy)..

they have been AVERAGING about 200,000/quarter for the last year, about 100,000/quarter previous to that. They did have a BIG JUMP in 3rd and 4th quarter of '04, (300,000 and 500,000 I think) Mostly because of Howard and the NFL (and actually giving away radios with a 1 year pre-paid sub). I've not seen the 1Q'05 numbers (I'll look around and see) They've posted some big losses still and with the money they've had to shell out (IIRC around 100 million+ between Howard/NFL/NBA/NASCAR) their new CEO is talking a price increase.

XM is still averaging around 500,000 a quarter, if they stay on track XM will be about 6.1 million subs by the end of the year, Sirius about 2.1 million.

[Edgewater_Joe]

55. I STILL Won't Buy It If XM Has F'n Alan Colmes Instead of Malloy

Otherwise, decent post - 'cuz I'm not giving up my Sirius. I'll get a Plug-'n-Play, or hope AAR gets to Chicago at long last.

[Rosco T.]

60. Like I said, let's wait and see how it shakes out... thinking XM won't....

.. end up with the FULL XM Schedule is foolish. There are things such as 'contracts' that must be dealt with (Schultz/Colmes)...

[Pilgrim4Progress]

62. Got XM when AAR started

At the time Sirius didn't have AAR, so that was that. Have it at work, where I couldn't stream from the computer, and in the car. Avoided Colmes in the evenings, however. . .:-)

[Toucano]

72. Thanks for the summary.

I was a bit surprised to see all the venom directed at AAR yesterday.

I sympathize with everyone who's invested in equipment, but they could have just as easily bought their equipment only to find Sirius bankrupt a week later. It happens, as you say.

A viable AAR with more ears listening is the most important thing.

See the forest, see the trees.

[cascadiance]

76. AAR didn't leave Sirius because it was going bankrupt...

Any time someone makes an investment in something, there's a risk of something going bankrupt. But in most cases that's a pretty low risk. At this point, Sirius doesn't look like it's in danger of going bankrupt, any more than XM is. I really don't think the reason that AAR went with XM in an exclusive is that Sirius was going bankrupt.

It's called anti-competive business measures to gain more control for someone. I don't think we truely see the market forces at work here, as we're only seeing it from the surface. But it really is hard for us subsribers to understand this move as truely a "good business move" where it basically PO's large percentage of the more dedicated and core AAR listeners. Instead of the "early adopter advocates" that they could use us for before, we've now become "cynical detractors" and left a hole where the more dedicated listener base used to be for AAR.

Personally, since it's seems to becoming more the case where Sirius was being "shut out", I'm still holding onto them to see how they respond. Part of me now wants to see both Randi Rhodes and Mike Malloy to immediately jump ship to Sirius and a competitor to AAR spring up with truely progressive leadership instead of the hollow leadership that now appears to be in charge of AAR.

I seem to recall a week ago or so when Randi was interviewing the "former" leadership of AAR before the newer folks took over and how she was disheartened to see them not mentioned much in the newer documentary that came out, and that she felt they were the heart and soul of getting Air America started. I don't know about how good a business people they were, but if instead of what appears to be increasingly shady characters they have in leadership now at AAR these same folks might go to Sirius and get some good business people over there, it might start up a newer and better firm that might also attract away some of AAR's other better talent and leave it a hollow shell later with XM holding the bag. That's a dream of mine, and it might not be something that will happen any time soon, depending on the various contracts that Air America holds with its talent, but I've lost confidence that AAR as a corporate entity is there to serve people like me any more.