PUBLIC SCHOOLS QUESTION: In My Position, What Would You Do?

[GiovanniC]

My high school was a 30-year-old building when I graduated in 1997. It was very, very poorly maintained... ceiling tiles falling, the roof leaking and water dripping down onto computers, heating problems, the works. Lunch schedules were mismanaged so that two lunch schedules were extremely full and there were not enough seats for all the students, while the third lunch was at about half capacity. Administrators spoke about the overcrowding of the classrooms while turning a classroom into a "time-out" room -- a sort of during-school detention for unruly students.

In short, it seemed that my school was run by idiots.

The reality was that the school board wanted to get the community to approve a massive bond issue. The bond issue would supposedly repair all the poorly maintained buildings in the disrict (none of which were built before 1960), add lots of classrooms, add a huge auditorium and entertainment complex with a theater, dressing rooms, audio/visual booth, and all the bells and whistles associated, a large new sports complex with new gymnasium, two practice gyms, new locker and shower facilities, et cetera.

The district's voters, however, decided that they could not afford the tax burden, and voted the proposal down. Many stated that they would gladly pay for repairs to the school and even new technology and classrooms, but were uncomfortable with the new entertainment and sports facilities, which comprised a large majority of the bond's cost.

Two years later, the school tried to ram essentially the same bond proposal through the voters. The voters again rejected it.

They tried again. Again it failed.

This May, they are on attempt #6. This time, they want the district to build a brand new high school (with the sports complex and entertainment complex). The district apparently already bought the land for a half million dollars last year. They also want new technology in the classrooms, new classrooms built on, maintenance and repairs on existing buildings, the works. The increase in taxes would add an additional $50.00 a month to my parents' tax bill (their home and land has a taxable value of about $100,000). There are a lot of people in the district who simply cannot afford this, as they have said at the polls time and again.

Here is my problem. I support public education. I think that schools should be like little Taj Mahals and that teachers should be treated like sultans. I just don't want to do that at the expense of my parents or my grandfather being able to pay their bills. I fully support a reasonable proposal to fix the buildings and update technology, but the district has been repeatedly greedy and excessive... and the problem is that at those costs, the bonds never get passed, and the schools fall into further disrepair. If this proposal gets voted down, state law won't allow them to ask for another one for two more years. The schools will be in even further disrepair by then.

To further add to my problem, the people who are most vocal about opposing this thing are the bat-shittiest right-wing Republicans (the ones who want to abolish the Department of Education), while the most vocal for pushing the proposal are area Democrats who I respect. I feel like a traitor to Democrats, but this stalemate is hurting the kids.

[trotsky]

1. I think this one falls under the old saying...

"Damned if you do, damned if you don't."

Err on the side of the kids, though, and support it.

[JHB]

2. Run for the School Board (or get someone else to)...

...and get people out to vote for them.

The board sounds like it's been taken over by an "in" group with delusions of granduer (or maybe just some contracting cronies), and needs some new blood from the general public.

The third option needs to be pushed by Democrats (not necessarily the "most vocal" ones), or else eventually monetary pressures will eventually overcome voters' dislike of the Republican wingnut opposition, and the wingnuts will start winning elections to the board, opening the door for all kinds of problems.

[lumberjack_jeff]

10. agreed

The Democrats in the author's post are on the wrong side of this issue (it happens). The bond was rejected multiple times because the voters have shown that they feel that it is an irresponsible use of tax dollars. A convincing advocate for education who runs for office on the basis of accountability to the public will have instant credibility.

Education nor politics are served by following yet another bond issue into failure.

[The Backlash Cometh]

3. The secret to my success:

I've had nothing but favorable experiences with public schools, but I think I nailed the reason why. My personal experiences were overseas on a military base, therefore, the buildings were new or well-maintained. And my kids are going to schools in a heavily populated Republican county. All those cut-backs are happening here, too, but there are some wealthy people who have their kids in the public school system and when they get mad, they just get up and leave the area or they get very organized and put their own money and time into the schools.

[blindpig]

4. the emphasis on sports is out of control

Here in the South it seems like the only thing that matters except when it's test time. I didn't grow up here, in my time HS football was little more than a footnote. The district I live in built a new HS a few years back with a stadium that would do most colleges proud. Though we are childfree we fully support public education, it just makes me nuts to be paying for that bullshit. When they try to give the Bible equal time with Darwin in Biology class is when I start a taxpayers revolt.

[tech3149]

5. I have some direct experience with this type situation

I worked for a communications company that primarily did school systems. The school board or someone in the Dept of Ed has either been sold a golden widget, or has some other reason to want to spend more of the peoples money than is reasonable. It may be ego or a questionable relationship with the architectural firm or any of the contractors bidding on the project. Architects, engineer, and contractors tend to build incestuous, self serving relationships. They want to sell the biggest and best. You make more money on a big job and it's a great selling point for the next project. You need to get the community, especially professionals to meet with the Dept of Ed and any architectural firms they have been talking to for a meeting. Most of the projects I worked on in 15 yrs were over sold. Most had systems and features that were never utilized. The past seven or eight years, it's been even worse. They should have a community representative involved in any meetings between the Dept of Ed and the architect to see who's selling who. There's nothing I hate more than seeing the peoples money wasted building a Taj Mahal.

[Baconfoot]

6. Sometimes an in school detention room can be a necessity in HS.

A COUPLE OF NOTES
A]I don't think the fact that they used a classroom for this purpose supports your contention that it is run by idiots. I don't know whether or not you have ever worked with teenagers or in a HS, but if you have then I'm sure you'll concede the point. On a related note, if you do the math one room isn't going to make a hell of a difference to overcrowding unless the highschool has very few rooms indeed.

I would leave that bit out of any argument you make.

B]But otherwise, I'm basically with you on this given the information you put forward. The schools NEED the repairs but the voters keep voting them down because of not wanting to spend money on something OTHER than the repairs. Now whether the something else is an extravagence or not, and I actually don't think that what you describe is an extravagence at all, the schools need the repairs and they can't get them. Take what you can get. Fix the problems first. Improve the quality of the educational experience of the children.

C]Now maybe a new high school is NEEDED in the district. I wouldn't know. You cite overcrowding as an argument in its favor. I wonder how many children they are expecting to be coming up from middle school and elementary school in to the high school in upcoming yearas. Perhaps they anticipate an even greater number of students in the near future, a number the current facility cannot accomodate. If you haven't done so already, I would make sure I were conversant with these figures.

D]I wouldn't call it "greedy and excessive" to ask for one, though perhaps the entertainment complex is a bit much if the townspeople are feel as it seems they do. What would the people asking for it GET out of it? What's the personal benefit? Do they own personal property near the proposed new location? "Greedy and excessive" sounds a bit excessive to me.

[GiovanniC]

11. Let Me Clarify

I left out some details because I felt I was running on very long in the original post. Let me go more in-depth.

They took a large classroom and turned it into a detention room that was used by an average of 5 to 8 students at any given time (sometimes more of course, but you get the idea). They then said, "We don't have any more classrooms!" so they converted an old janitor's storage room into a classroom and jammed 25+ students in there.

Then, when people complained about the bond issue, they would invite them to come see the school and how bad things were. They would ask them to come at lunchtime (one of the first two lunch periods, where it was overcrowded). They would show them this "classroom" (the converted janitor room). I know, because I was in that classroom during the beginning of lunch. They were bringing people by all the time. "Look at the students and how overcrowded things are! This used to be a janitor's closet! We have no room!" Meanwhile, down the hall in the "time-out room", there would be a teacher and four students.

THAT was the stupid part.

ON EDIT: Also, on the issue of the new high school... the specs they are giving the district with this bond issue say that this high school will accomodate 1190 students. When I went to school there, we had a high school enrollment of approximately 1400 students. I don't know what our high school enrollment numbers are now. The new school they are building is still too small. I am not sure why (they claim the state won't let them build it any bigger?).

[Mnemosyne]

7. Children do not need the bells and whistles to learn.

Our district has had horrible fighting over this for several years.
The buildings have had terrible maintenance or none for years (why?).Now the wealthier folks in town want to consolidate the small neighborhood schools and have some expensive monstrosity built at a ridiculous cost. We are in a very economically depressed area.

I feel that children have been taught that they have to be entertained 24/7. Even their soap and vitamins have to amuse them. They are being dumbed down and their imaginations are being destroyed. They are not being taught patience much anymore. It never fails to leave me flabbergasted when I hear of "graduation" from kindergarten!

School is supposed to be for learning, not to be entertained. I understand that school needs to be interesting for children to be motivated to learn, but this can be done with little expense.

[LizW]

8. $600 per year tax increase on $100,000 of property?

You don't have to make a decision, because it won't make any difference. This is never going to pass. They're asking for too much.

[davsand]

9. Lead the charge with truth and practicality.

You can organize on commone sense--do it!


Laura

[alcuno]

12. Consider this - a new high school may make property values increase.

Of course that leads to increased taxes. A 6th time at a bond issue? You don't go for a referendum 6 times unless you need the money.

[GiovanniC]

14. My Taxes Won't Increase

I will be moving out of state in a year. My parents and grandfather both live in the district though, and will be hit with that tax burden.

I don't dispute that the school needs money. That's never been in doubt.

But it's like a homeless guy coming up to you asking for food. You know he needs food, so you say, "Here, have this ham sandwich."

And he says, "No, I insist on having caviar. Give me caviar or nothing."

And then he starves to death.

But in reality, the district says "Caviar or Nothing!" and it's the students who end up suffering.

The school knows full well that they can let things just go to hell and keep asking for exorbitant amounts of money each time they get a chance at a bond proposal, and as long as they don't back down, we'll eventually HAVE to give in, or the school will crumble around the students. If they proposed a small bond just to pay for necessary improvements, updates and repairs, it would pass in a heartbeat. Everyone I've spoken to in the community has said they'd support such a measure.

[MARALE]

13. While I agree that they are not spending as wisely

as they could, new sports and music facilities do bring money into the schools. Also, the cost of repairs for new technology can be almost as costly as building new. Also building new can bring tax breaks for the district that they would not have otherwise. Maybe try and get this done in gradual phases, that might deminish some of the money. Sounds like this thing has been in the works and reworked for a while, it may be the best thing and the most cost efficient way of getting things done.
I have heard these republican types say how schools could do things cheaper, but sometimes putting a band-aid on is a curse. A few years later when the band-aid falls off, people will say "we just gave you maoney" The school is probably trying to get as much as they can now because you don't want to ask very often.

[LynneSin]

15. Just food for thought: Fancy Complex & Sport Stadiums = Revenue

Ok, I don't know exactly what the school board is looking for with these fancy additions, but these are facilities that could help generate revenue and pay off the bond.

But then again, I know crud about this stuff, so don't flame me if I'm wrong!

[GiovanniC]

16. Food For Thought: Fancy Theater & Sports Complex < My Parents

An additional $50 a month, or $600 a year, is quite a burden on them. They are not rich people.

[Bridget Burke]

17. You REALLY haven't given us enough facts.

Most high school students think school adminstrators are idiots.

What do the Democrats that you respect have to say about this?

[GiovanniC]

18. I'm Not a High School Student Anymore

And haven't been for some years now. I still think they're idiots, but it's just because of the things that I've seen.

The Democrats say that we should support the bond no matter what. I do have some difficulty accepting that people should choose between a good school district and putting food on their families. I would prefer that we automatically had the best state-of-the-art schools in the world and that we approved congressional raises or pork projects or new nuclear weapons with bond proposals.

What more information do you need to make an informed decision?

[Bridget Burke]

19. Nothing is automatic.

You're not a student & are leaving town. Do you have any sibs still in school?

The easiest decision for you & your family is apparently stiffing the schools.

[GiovanniC]

20. Thank You For Illustrating My Problem

As a Democrat on this board who I have a lot of respect for, you believe that my desire not to fund what I believe to be an excessive bond is "stiffing the schools". I have also been accused of "being anti-education", of "hating children", et cetera.

My argument has been as follows:

- My parents cannot easily afford the extra $50.00 per month that this bond would require.
- My grandfather would have an even MORE difficult time coughing up extra tax money on his fixed income.
- I am sure there are lots of people who similarly cannot afford this bond.
- The district NEEDS some money, and it WANTS some money.
- People cannot afford what the district WANTS, and will reject the bond.
- If people reject the bond, the school will not get what it WANTS but also will not get what it NEEDS.
- People probably can afford what the district NEEDS.
- The district should ask for what it NEEDS.


If a homeless man asks you for a dollar, you might give it to him, especially if you knew it was a good cause. But if a homeless man asked you for $50, you might have a bit of a problem with that. If he asked you for $1,000, you'd probably tell him no. With these bond elections, they set the price and we say "yes" or "no". Five times previously, they've been told "no" because it's too much. They do not reduce the amounts or take out expensive parts of the plan. They just resubmit the same bond over and over again, except this time they added a new building to the mix also at a cost of $33.7 million.

Unlike with the homeless man, we cannot just say, "I won't give you a thousand dollars, but you can have ten." We can only say, "I don't have a thousand dollars to give you." Then the homeless man spits in our face and says that we hate poor people.