Please tell me why they are clubbing 975,000 seals in Canada.

[Vektor]

Not that any reason could ever be ok.

I don't understand.

I just stumbled upon a news page that showed a horrific image of some sub-human, pusillanimous, worthless sack of waste swinging a pick-axe into a baby seal. All the caption said is that a "massive seal hunt" was going on in Canada. They expected 975,000 seals to be massacred, most of them babies.

What the fuck is going on, and what sort of living breathing human could possibly be made of something so evil that they could participate in such an activity?

I am having a real hard time fathoming how this is happening.

Anyone?

[yurbud]

1. boredom

You ever been someplace where there is absolutely nothing to do? It does strange things to your head.

[Vektor]

7. That's beyond strange...

It's the sickest thing I have ever seen. I'm not entirely sure anyone who does this deserves to live.

I've been bored shitless and the worst thing I did was write really bad poetry.

I am at a loss. I don't even understand how this is legal.

[Minstrel Boy]

21. "I'm not entirely sure anyone who does this deserves to live."

Should they be clubbed or shot?

[Vektor]

25. Either would be great.

Seriously.

[HEyHEY]

16. Ever been to that area?

I didn't think so

[Vektor]

30. Then you might be thinking wrong.

Not that it's important, but it's not wise to assume you know for sure.

[HEyHEY]

31. Where have you been?

:eyes: it's also unwise to assume people are clubbing seals as a hobby

[Vektor]

37. Why don't you tell me?

You seem to be the expert on my travels.

And using your assumptions about them to distract away from the original topic.

Which had nothing to do with what parts of Canada I have or have not been to.

[HEyHEY]

41. You said there was nothing to do there - how the fuck do you know?

I know you're wrong because I lived there for awhile. So pony up... how is it you know there's nothing to do there? You're so big on not talking about what you don't know about and all. SO prove me wrong... where have you been?


ANd I've turned this into a sub-topic because you insulted a great part of the world.

[Vektor]

46. I didn't SAY THAT!! READ IT AGAIN. WRONG POSTER.

I am not the poster who said there was nothing to do in Canada!!!

Mellow the fuck out, you are attacking the wrong poster.

Go after the right guy if you want to take issue on this.

I am ONLY talking about the seal hunt, NOT CANADA!!

[HEyHEY]

47. Dude

I'm sorry, totally my fault.

[Vektor]

51. HAHA...ok then.

:-)

Perhaps you got as upset and reactive as I did when I saw a photo of a man swinging an axe down on a seal.

It happens.

[yurbud]

34. Best thing to do is make fur socially unacceptable like smoking

have an ad like this:

VOICE OVER: When you see this...

Show a hot chick in a fur coat.

VOICE OVER: think of this...

cut to the clubbing

then to the skinless harp seal corpse.

[HEyHEY]

35. It's the europeans that are buying it

[yurbud]

60. then do the add in French

voulez vous couche avec skinned seal?

[Maple]

2. Because there are 5 million seals

and they are eating all the fish.

And because it's part of a native traditional livelihood.

And because killing them is no different than killing your supper.

You just don't see the abattoir on TV.

[HEyHEY]

8. Are you tired of the British with this crap?

And Europe in general. I don't support the hunt personally, however it's the damned Europeans with a lust for the stuff.And then the Brits get all sanctimonious about it.

Ticks me off

[HEyHEY]

12. We should tell them when they enforce the new anti-fox hunting law

We'll consider it

[Maple]

44. English fox hunting, French stuffing geese for pate

people hunting wolves from helicopters, bombing 100,000 innocent people....cough cough

[Dutch]

102. Once again, you somehow turn this into a chance to slam other countries

Whilst showing an utter inability to deal with critiscism of your own. This is just getting sad.

[Dutch]

103. pathetci, just because it's in demand, doesn't mean it has to be supplied.

For the love of God, STOP TRYING TO BLAME EVERYONE ELSE!

[hlthe2b]

18. You are saying they eat all these seals?

I could accept that if true, but there are so many readily ways to do so humanely. I'd also be interested in the data that shows the seals are responsible for decreasing fish and not man-made pollution and overfishing.

And, yes, i DO support native people's rights, but that doesn't make this any less barbaric (and, I strongly suspect, unnecessary).

[Maple]

33. Myth and reality

Myth #12: The seal hunt is not worth it - seals are only taken for their fur and the rest of the animal is wasted.

Reality: Seals have been harvested for food, fuel and shelter and other products for hundreds of years. The subsistence hunt is a valuable link to Canadian cultural heritage. Canada exports seal products in three forms: pelts, oil and meat. Traditionally, the pelts have been the main commodity, but production of seal oil for human consumption has grown substantially in recent years. Seal oil markets remain positive, and a large percentage of seal oil is finding its way into areas other than traditional marine and industrial oils.

DFO encourages the fullest use of seals, with the emphasis on leather, oil, handicrafts, and in recent years, meat for human and animal consumption as well as seal oil capsules rich in Omega-3. Any seal parts that are left on the ice provide sustenance to a wide variety of marine scavengers such as crustaceans, seabirds and fish.


more:
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/seal-phoque/myth_e.htm

[Maru Kitteh]

74. REALITY is their carcasses are being left on the ice no matter what the

bullshit propaganda some people have tried to push.







FUCK the corporate ASSHOLES who are using genuine native tradition as a skirt to hide behind while they commit these cruel attrocities for bloody, bloody greed.

[Vektor]

83. Anyone who talked shit about my OP might want to look at #74.

Want "back-up?" "Proof?"

Right...this is humane.

Right... there's a good reason for this.

I don't buy a word of that shit, no matter what, no how.

THIS IS NOT OK.

[Yupster]

116. Honestly, I thought this was ended

years ago.

Why can't Canada have this stopped.

Someone in Canada, help me out.

What can I do to get this stopped. What should I boycott? Who do we need to publicly embarrass? Are there not Canadian artists willing to take a stand on this?

Man I hate cruelty to animals.

[Dave Reynolds]

104. I've mentioned this before,

but as we know from viewing the extreme right, fundamentalists are not swayed by facts or figures.

Give them a link, they will give you insults.

[Crunchy Frog]

48. Humans are eating all the fish. Seals are being made the

scapegoats for human overfishing. And of course, they can't even be allowed to eat even a miniscule fraction of the fish out there because all fish belong to humans to consume.

I really find my credulity severely strained by the suggestion that clubbing nearly a million baby seals to death and mostly leaving their skinless carcasses on the ice is part of the native traditional livelihood.

[Vektor]

65. Thank you, and amen.

There's no excuse for this.

[Crunchy Frog]

72. Thank you.

I expect I will eventually get massively flamed for that post, so I'm glad that the first response to it was friendly.:)

[Ladyhawk]

84. You're probably correct.

Here in California, fishermen blame sea otters for lack of whatever they happen to be hunting, but in truth, the otters fit nicely into the ecosystem. People are the ones overfishing. I feel badly for those who make their living from the sea because it's becoming harder and harder as resources are depleted. Blame it on overpopulation or something. We're depleting natural resources faster than they can replenish themselves.

[sandnsea]

94. Ever been to a buffalo jump?

Some people would be surprised about native culture.

[Crunchy Frog]

96. I don't doubt that seal hunting in some form

is part of indiginous subsistence culture. I am rather sceptical that the clubbing to death of hundreds of thousands of baby seals to sell their fur to rich Europeans and leave their skinned carcasses on the ice is a part of traditional native culture, or part of a subsistence lifestyle.

I could easily believe, a few dozen, even a few hundred seals killed, with all or most of their parts being used. Hundreds of thousands? I just don't buy it. I would be happy to see any links to reliable information that backs up that claim.

[Maru Kitteh]

69. It's not native traditional livelihood to kill a million baby seals and

leave their bloody unused carcasses on the ice to waste away.

they are eating all the fish.
It is the fault of HUMANS that the fish populations of the world are dwindling - not the baby seals. How many species can we continue to drive to extinction before we're down to Soylent Green? Maybe instead of making hats out of our competition we should look at our disgusting waste and over consumption.


And because killing them is no different than killing your supper
You just don't see the abattoir on TV. .
Oh good God in heaven. We're back to that oh so sophisticated and orchidacious word............. abattoir. :puke: Say it with me........... SLAUGHTER FACTORY. Perhaps it bothers you to call it what it is.

Although the animals killed so that Americans can enjoy eating their flesh are often met with a horrible and painful end, I think most Americans would be upset if they were aware of the animals suffering and would likely do more to stop the cruelty. www.meetyourmeat.com

This in NO WAY negates the validity of the feelings of disgust any NORMAL person would have when witnessing the putrid brutality of this seal hunt.

[HEyHEY]

3. Oh the number is up to 975,000 now?

Last time I checked the REAL figures it was 300,000

[yvr girl]

14. They have to hate Canada for something

I haven't seen this getting any play on Canadian news.

[HEyHEY]

It has been, but as I said

Makes me laugh at how many of these nations do way worse shit and their media is focusing on us.

[Vektor]

43. Don't take it personally.

I never attacked CANADA. I am merely horrified by the pick-axing of helpless animals. On any continent. If you said that you were disgusted by our veal production, I wouldn't assume you meant "all Americans are assholes."

At first I had no idea why you were all up in arms about my post but now I see your Canadian flag. I love Canada, and for the most part, love the politics up there too. Protesting the seal hunt is NOT the same as bashing the entire country.

[JVS]

91. I cannot believe that this trivial issue overshadows Quebec's fight for...

cultural survival!

[Vektor]

93. It doesn't.

Not at all.

Maybe you should post a thread about that. It's not a less important issue, just a different one. Bring it upon the board - let people know about it.

[Minstrel Boy]

4. It's just over 300,000.

Wherever you got that figure from, it's wrong.

[Vektor]

15. Whatever the actual figure, one is too many.

This is beyond inhumane. Only someone who could do something so cruel deserves to die by pick-axe, but definitely not a seal.

[achtung_circus]

57. Are you certain that it is inhumane?

The gold standard for euthanasia is the American Veterinary Medicine Association (AVMA) Panel on euthanasia. The current version is the 2001 report found here:
<http://www.avma.org/resources/euthanasia.pdf>

It's a PDF and I cannot cut and paste the operative section which is found on page 681 of the journal article (page 13 of 28 in the PDF)

Quick answer, a blow to the head is quite capable of being humane. The asthetics are an entirely different story.

[Vektor]

67. If you look at it in these terms -

What if someone clubbed your child to death - would you be relieved that at least they didn't "suffer"?

Regardless - it's horrendous.

Killing an innocent creature by bashing it over the head is never an ok thing to do. Even if you do it "right".

Since they are skinning the seals alive, though, "humane clubbing" doesn't help a whole lot.

[achtung_circus]

73. Don't anthropomorphise this.

What does the death of my child have to do with this discussion?

Don't believe everything you read, either. Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO) and the Canadian Veterinary Medicine Association (CVMA) monitor the hunt.

[Vektor]

79. Whatever.

Rationalize it how ever YOU want.

You said that clubbing with a pick-axe could be humane. I'm certain it is not a humane act. EVER.

Simple as that.

I don't care WHO is supervising the hunt. It is totally unacceptable.

Your opinion will not alter my view of it. Don't waste your time.

[achtung_circus]

114. Did you read my link?

Oh, it's only veterinarians, I don't believe them because it doesn't jibe with my preconceptions.:sarcasm:

[Dave Reynolds]

106. Fundamentalist tactic.

"What if it was YOUR (add family member here)."

Most recently seen in Florida at a Hospice facility.

[Kool Kitty]

121. Right. And the Department of Agriculture is

supposed to monitor the meat industry in this country. Ever see how the food animals are raised and slaughtered here? Horrifying. Just like this useless and unspeakably cruel hunt.

[hlthe2b]

5. I'm a strong person... seen lots of human carnage (medical) in my life

but I just can't stand to imagine this. What the hell is wrong with us? These animals pose no threat to anyone. What the hell is wrong with us?


It is so painful to sit helplessly by on this and our tortue of humans in iraq, and all the horror that mankind has initiated in the name of....?

[jim3775]

6. Because changing hunting/fishing laws up north...

...pretty much takes a supreme court order.

[tuvor]

9. How do you think they should they be killed?

Like calves are for veal, maybe?

No one protests veal production, so maybe the seal hunters should take notes from the veal farmers.

[InvisibleTouch]

19. Actually people do protest veal production.

My take: don't kill it unless you're going to eat it, or you're under direct threat of your life. If you are going to eat it, raise and kill it humanely.

There's no excuse to kill an animal solely for its pelt.

[lonestarnot]

26. Never eat the shit! Veal baby cows...red death on the weak.

[Yupster]

117. I haven't eaten veal for 25 years, and neither has my family.

So what should I be boycotting to end this carnage? I want to do something.

[hlthe2b]

28. Plenty of people protest veal production and other cruel practices...

I haven't eaten veal in 15 years because of this. Many people are paying more for rangefed meat and cageless poultry.

But, in answer to your question, a bullet to the head or a "skilled" knife to the jugular/carotid artery would certainly be better than haphazard clubbing to death.

[Vektor]

32. Obviously, I do not advocate that either.

Also a sick, sick practice.

[tuvor]

56. "Sick" why, exactly? You don't explain why.

The age of the seals?
When was the last time you posted in protest about veal production?

The use of a pickaxe?
How do you KNOW that the proper use of a pickaxe is inhumane?

Maybe it's just the visual drama of red on white on a crisp wintry day. Much more compelling than a stinky, grey killing floor.

All I'd like to see is a well-reasoned post, not one based solely on gut reaction and emotion.

[Vektor]

76. Please.

I think I just DID post in protest about veal production.

I fully understand how veal is produced, and if you knew me at all, you would know that I have participated in protesting, and FUNDING the fight against MANY forms of animal cruelty, not just seals.

The age of the seals is irrelevant. Any age would be equally horrendous. And is.

If you can give me one good example of how using a pick axe on a helpless animal is a GOOD idea, a HUMANE IDEA then power to you. But I won't buy it. Not killing them at all would be great.

Who's to say that a post based on emotion is NOT well reasoned?

Who's to say one is better than the other anyway? I'm pretty sure there is no law on DU against having emotions.

If you sincerely deduced that by my protesting the killing of seals that I was ADVOCATING veal, than you really made a wild leap with no basis in rationality.

There was no "red on a wintry day" as the photo did not depict bloodshed, or the axe making contact. So much for well reasoned - you don't even know what I was commenting on.

Stinky grey killing floor? Do I detect a hint of emotion? Gut reaction? See how it works.

Seriously, back off. I never advocated veal production, nor have I ever eaten veal. This post was not about veal anyhow, so 'nuff said.

[tuvor]

81. I just like to see people be consistent, that's all.

So if you've protested against veal production, great, my hat's off to you.

"If you can give me one good example of how using a pick axe on a helpless animal is a GOOD idea, a HUMANE IDEA then power to you. But I won't buy it."

Well, that puts me in a no-win situation, doesn't it? Here, read all of this anyway. It refutes a lot of your up-to-now unsupported claims. http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/seal-phoque/myth_e.htm

[Vektor]

82. BULLSHIT. LOOK AT POST NUMBER 74.

That's all the fucking back-up you need. Unsubstantiate that.

GOOD DAY. AND GOOD-BYE.

[tuvor]

88. No, it's all the backup YOU need. I see your mind's made up

with pictures devoid of context.

I won't ask you to discuss any of the facts, then. Even though you solicited opinions, I guess there's really no point.

[Vektor]

90. I'm glad you see that.

Christ on a pogo stick.

Will you give it up now?

[Maraya1969]

10. I thought this was banned a long time ago! Link please - I'll send

it to World Wild Life Fund and some others. Or else you can send the link directly tot them.

[Yupster]

118. Me too Maraya

I really thought this went out over a decade ago when we became a little environmentally aware.

[Dookus]

11. actually

it's about 300,000 seals.

What's the argument against it?

[HEyHEY]

13. And who wrote the lie about the number

[Vektor]

22. I got the figure though the pictures forum

on this site:

http://www.sfgate.com

And regardless...it would be horrific at any number.

[HEyHEY]

39. I agree, I'm against it

But there are also so many lies about it from protesters

[Vektor]

50. That may be true...

I just really got upset about that photo. That was real. They are pick-axing baby seals - which is horrible.

And read up-thread. You got me mixed up with another person. I WAS speaking out against the seal hunt, but I'm not the one who claimed that there was nothing to do in Canada and all the people up there were bored to death. I never singled out the country, just the act of seal clubbing. Anywhere.

[lonestarnot]

20. They are cute and they sometimes don't die on the first whack so I've

read. Who could club a baby? Desensitization is not the excuse or answer. This is cruelty plain and simple.

[HEyHEY]

23. desensitized? THis has been going on for hundreds of years

[Dookus]

27. so we should only

eat ugly animals. Got it.

[lonestarnot]

36. Yep! Glad you got it.

[Vektor]

53. Ugly has nothing to do with it..

at least not with me...it's the method, and the numbers, and the fact that they will not all be used for nourishment. Most seals are killed to make coats out of...not to feed people.

[Minstrel Boy]

58. seal oil is rich in Omega-3

Also, from the CBC, March 14: "A seal oil based IV drip in the works"

http://www.cbc.ca/story/science/national/2005/03/14/oil-iv050314.html

[Vektor]

62. And this whole hunt is rich in bullshit.

The majority of the seals being clubbed in Canada right now are well on their way to becoming fur coats, not vitamins.

[tuvor]

68. Prove it, already!

All you're doing on this thread is posting assertions.

[Vektor]

78. And all you're doing is throwing up stupid red herrings. Give it up.

Posting assertions?!?!

HAHAHAHAHAH.

Um HELLO. This is a discussion board. Isn't that what we do here?

There is nothing to "prove" so give it up, and go find someone else to pester.

I stated how I feel, and if you are trying to talk me out of my stance you are REALLY wasting your time and barking up the wrong tree.

I think the seal hunt is bullshit.

WHAT MORE PROOF IS REQUIRED!??????

[tuvor]

86. In my book, you make a claim, you back it up.

So far you haven't done that at all.

"You said that clubbing with a pick-axe could be humane. I'm certain it is not a humane act. EVER."

Proof, please.

"...it's the method, and the numbers, and the fact that they will not all be used for nourishment. Most seals are killed to make coats out of...not to feed people."

Proof, please.

"The majority of the seals being clubbed in Canada right now are well on their way to becoming fur coats, not vitamins."

Proof, please.

Look, I'm not saying any single one of your claims is bogus. But I want to see something other than mere assertion. (And dramatic pictures that aren't new to many of us.) If you think that's nuts, well, then, call me a stickler for proof, or a pedantic asshole, I don't care. Hell, look at my sig line, that attitude kept us out of bush's bogus war.

[Vektor]

87. AGAIN. I AM NOT INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU WANT.

I have stated my position. I don't give a rat's ass if you agree or not. You can attempt to attack my position until you are blue in the face with your silly red herrings and your demands for "proof" and I will continue to not give a shit.

I'm not here to please you, nor to "prove" I have a right to maintain my position.

Guess what. I STILL maintain my original position.

You can like it or not. You can rant all you want. The simple fact of the matter is even the most seemingly concrete facts cannot be "proven" to the satisfaction of everyone. Anyone can twist the most concrete notion into anything they want to "prove" or "disprove" it to their liking. No matter what I say, you will bitch about it because you really are just here to instigate.

And I am pretty over it by now. If you want to try to talk me out of my position, you are REALLY wasting your time.

[tuvor]

89. I'm not trying to talk you out of anything.

I just wanted you to back up your claims with...ah, forget it.

Facts are troublesome things, anyway.

Have a good night.

[Vektor]

92. So are instigators.

You can clearly see the facts. You are ignoring them in order to play devil's advocate.

Whatever floats your boat.

BTW, I see what your whole little tirade is about. I should have known. I was wondering why you were being such a pain in the ass about the FACT that seal clubbing is SICK, and now I get it. YOU'RE CANADIAN.

You mistook this whole post as a bash on Canadians, and it was never about "seal facts" for you at all. It was about feeling attacked and that's why you kept giving me shit.

I made clear in a few other posts you may not have read that I loved Canada, and really enjoyed Canadian politics, and that although I thought the seal hunt was abhorrent on any continent, I was not attacking Canada or Canadians at all.

I think you took it personally, since you are the only reader that hounded me all over the thread and kept gnawing away. Everyone else seems fine with the fact that this was pretty sick shit.

Again - it was not an attack on Canada at ALL. The same as I'm sure your veal claims were not an attack on America. Veal claims, which by the way I accept, and did not demand you PROVE.

I mean, hello. Veal production is horrendous. Who needs proof?

[Dave Reynolds]

107. Fundies, when confronted with one who they cannot sway,

resort to name-calling.

[Maru Kitteh]

101. Human babies are rich in B-12

there are way too many of them, and they are eating all of the strained peas. We should club them with pick axes.

Your dog is rich in iron and other trace minerals. Club your dog with a pick axe.

Beef production is too fast. Sometimes it only takes 5 to 10 minutes for the cows to die while they are being skinned and hacked apart. We should start requiring farmers to pick axe them..... in the fields beside the road in full view of all the other cows.

What a bunch of shit.

BTW............... FLAX is rich in omega 3.


No pick axe required.

[Crunchy Frog]

113. You may be right about that.

I really think that people should give the ideas of Jonothan Swift greater consideration.

[Minstrel Boy]

123. Human-seal equivalency may fly in Veganistan,

but not in the world I inhabit.

[Dave Reynolds]

125. Why the fuck

do you people always bring up baby eating in these threads? Really, I want to know what kind of mental defect is involved in drawing the parallel.

Un-fucking-believeable.

No wonder I think of you guys as being as asinine as the religious right.

[tuvor]

66. You have to back up claims like that.

The way Maple does in posts #33 and #38.

[Vektor]

80. I don't have to back up shit.

I posted a thread saying I thought this seal hunt was horrible.

And I still do.

You can twist and manipulate all you want I really don't give a damn.

I don't need to BACK UP my feeling that this is a horrible thing to do.

In other words, I don't need your permission to have my own viewpoint, nor do I have to "prove" I have a right to feel the way I do. If you don't agree, fine, don't.

Bye now.

[Swamp Rat]

99. Mmmm! ... crawfish!

[Yupster]

119. I rescued two crawfish

from my grocery store live crawfish sale. I put them in my fishtank. One lived two years and shed about four times. He was as cool as could be and never bothered any of the fish.

[Maru Kitteh]

100. I have to wonder what kind of "progressive" is FOR the cruel and wanton

destruction of wildlife for the benifit of big business. Makes my head spin. Looks like something that belongs on a very conservative, pro neo-con type message board.

[Minstrel Boy]

124. speaking for myself,

I'm a socialist, and my sympathies are with the workers trying to eek out a living in a traditional industry.

The seal population is near historic highs, is not being over-hunted, and the numbers killed are a tiny fraction of the animals slaughtered in the US.

I'm not a vegan, I believe harvesting unendangered animals is legitimate, and I think many of the objections to this hunt can be attributed to cultural imperialism.

[Maple]

38. Myth and reality

Myth #2: Seals are being skinned alive.

Reality: The most recent Canadian Veterinary Medical Association (CVMA) Report and numerous reports mentioned by the Malouf Commission (1987) indicate that this is not true.

Sometimes a seal may appear to be moving after it has been killed; however seals have a swimming reflex that is active - even after death. This reflex falsely appears as though the animal is still alive when it is clearly dead - similar to the reflex in chickens.

Myth #6: The club - or hakapik - is a barbaric tool that has no place in today's world.
Reality: Clubs have been used by sealers since the onset of the hunt hundreds of years ago. Hakapiks originated with Norwegian sealers who found it very effective. Over the years, studies conducted by the various veterinary experts, and American studies carried out between 1969 and 1972 on the Pribilof Islands hunt (Alaska) have consistently proven that the club or hakapik is an efficient tool designed to kill the animal quickly and humanely. A recent report in September, 2002, by the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association, had results that parallel these findings.

[lonestarnot]

49. This is disgusting and should be stopped! n/t

[achtung_circus]

61. See also my post #57 above. nt

[Minstrel Boy]

42. cultural imperialism

Mostly urbanites, divorced from nature and their own dinners and leather jackets, manipulated by suggestive images, telling natives and rural people how barbaric they are.

Meanwhile, as I've said, 40 million cows are slaughtered each year in the US. But that's okay, because their blood stains factory floors instead of pristine ice.

[Maru Kitteh]

108. In my perfect world no cows would be bred and killed for their flesh

and products either. There are some major differences that need pointing out though, but first allow me to sidetrack and address your bullshit charge of "cultural imperialism" first. CANADIANS are protesting the cruelty of this so called "hunt".

1. Cows are not indegenous wildlife
2. Cows are not killed in the fields with pick axes, skinned and left to rot.

[Minstrel Boy]

122. This ridiculous "left to rot" charge:

As has been said, seals are also harvested for their oils and their meat. Whatever is left behind on the ice doesn't quickly rot, and I'm sure the birds and fish appreciate the leftovers.

[NVMojo]

17. Greed, fecking greed.

[Maple]

40. Basic survival

It's still the first law of life.

[jim3775]

24. This websites silly auto-counter says 112,000

http://www.protectseals.org/

[davepc]

29. Its 975,000 over 3 years

about 300,000 a year...give or take.

And they do it because seals eat fish. Lots of seals = lots of eaten fish = lower amounts of fish stock.

Its not about killing cute cuddly little sweet baby seals, its about managing wildlife levels.

[Lefty_the_Right]

52. I believe you are correct

I'm almost as liberal as they come, but from what I understand, this is about population control.

Now unless people want to start eating baby seals, I don't know how else to "justify" what is happening.


We can't protect the salmon against the seals once they are in the ocean.

[jim3775]

45. Not that im defending the seal hunt or anything,

It should be banned. But i just want to make a point. Why in the eyes of most people, is hitting a seal with a club or axe so it dies instantly inhumane, but shooting a deer from far away so it can run and run in agonizing pain until it finally collapses because of lack of blood or exaustion is conisdered responsible hunting?

No one takes out full page ads in the NY times against partridge hunting, and they just stand there too.

I don't come out of the shadows often to post on this board but i live in an area in north-western Ontario populated by thousands of hunters. And this town has voted liberal consistantly since the city was founded.

[Vektor]

55. I think it's all bad...

I really cannot think of a good way to kill an animal, but if there really were an environmentally necessary reason to thin a population, the Dept of Fish and Game or the equivalent thereof, should humanely euthanize them via injection or something less gory and painful. This seems more like a bloodsport for sickos than it does an environmental necessity.

[achtung_circus]

70. There is a perception, usually of people who haven't done it

that euthanasia by injection is sweet and nice compared to more physical methods. That is not necessarily so.

Consider
#1
a) Wild animal is captured and physically restrained.
b) A patch of skin is shaved to expose a vein.
c) A needle is inserted into that vein (not alweays the easiest thing to do. In fact, I have seen vets totally trash a vein attemping to get a needle in and have to satrt from square 1 again)
d) Sodium Penobarbital is injected into that vein.
e) The animals dies.

#2
a) Man approaches animal.
b) Man swings a blunt instrument.
c) Animal Dies

Which one causes the mose distress to the animal?

[Vektor]

85. See number 74.

Injection is not ideal (not KILLING is ideal) but clubbing is way worse, the impact causes pain, and the first one doesn't always work. The three easy steps you described are hardly that neat.

Seriously...there is no way you will convince me that seal clubbing is ok. Don't even bother. I'm not open to suggestion on this.

[Yupster]

120. I doubt if many here would

defend deer huntng either.

I sure won't.

I support the right to arm bears.

[shockra]

54. Sick, sick, sick.

This has been on my mind a lot lately too. And I don't buy any of the excuses that this is in any way necessary. Or not incredibly evil. I understand from the below website that seal clubbing WAS banned back in 1987, and now it's back.

Also, from the hsus.org (humane society) website:

Levin Leads Congressional Opposition to Canada's Seal Hunt


February 24, 2005

As he did during the last session of Congress, U.S. Senator Carl Levin (D-MI) again demonstrated strong leadership in protecting wildlife by organizing a bipartisan group of senators to support a resolution condemning the brutal Canadian seal hunt.

Introduced on February 1, Senate Resolution 33 urges the government of Canada to end the commercial seal hunt. Citing a 2001 veterinary report by the International Fund for Animal Welfare, the resolution denounces Canadian seal hunting for failing "to comply with basic animal welfare regulations in Canada." Levin introduced a similar resolution in November 2003.

"As many as 42 percent of the seals studied were likely skinned while alive and conscious," the statement reads.

Calling the hunt "a commercial slaughter carried out by nonnative people from the East Coast of Canada," the document contests Canada's contention that the seals are responsible for depleted cod stocks.

"The consensus among the international scientific community is that seals are not responsible for the collapse of cod stocks," the resolution declares, "and because the seals consume predators of commercial cod stocks, removing the seals might actually inhibit recovery of cod stocks."

The resolution reflects the outrage experienced by many Americans upon learning that Canada had increased the quota of seals that hunters may club and shoot to 975,000 over the next three years. Since The HSUS launched its Protect Seals campaign in June 2003, Americans and Canadians alike have written thousands of letters of protest to then-Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien, Canada's Ambassador to the United States Michael Kergin, Minister of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans Robert Thibault, and the Canadian Tourism Commission. In March, activists rallied against the hunt at the Canadian Embassy in Washington, D.C.

Senators Joseph Biden (D-DE), Barbara Boxer (D-CA), Maria Cantwell (D-WA), Susan Collins (R-ME), Christopher Dodd, (D-CT), Byron Dorgan (D-ND), Durbin, Richard (D-IL), Russell Feingold (D-WI), Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), James Jeffords (I-VT), Tim Johnson (D-SD), Kennedy, Edward M. (D-MA), Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ), Richard Lugar (R-IN), Patty Murray (D-WA), Jack Reed (D-RI), Paul Sarbanes (D-MD), Charles Schumer (D-NY), Debbie Stabenow (D-MI), and Ron Wyden (D-OR) are cosponsoring the resolution.

Agreement from Abroad

Levin and his colleagues are not the only political figures to criticize Canada's seal hunt. On November 4, 2003, conservative David Amess, M.P., read a statement to the United Kingdom's Parliament calling the killing of baby seals "cruel."

The Canadian government has "effectively declared war on seals," Amess noted in the debate over his motion to oppose the seal hunt, which was signed by 159 members of parliament. Later the same day, British Foreign Office Minister Mike O'Brian announced that the United Kingdom would put pressure on Canada to ban commercial seal hunting.

International concerns center on the shocking brutality of the hunt, the unsustainable quota, and the de facto subsidization of the hunt by unwilling Canadian taxpayers. As Senator Levin described in his statement in the Congressional Record, "The images from this senseless slaughter are difficult to view but even harder to accept: skinning of live animals, some no older than 12 days, and the dragging of live seals across the ice using steel hooks.

The hunt is making Canada a pariah in the global community. HSUS marine mammal scientist Dr. Naomi Rose puts it plainly: "The Canadian seal hunt is the largest commercial slaughter of wildlife in the world. This is hardly an achievement Canada should want to be known for. It is a hunt whose quotas are not supported by science—placing the Canadian management agencies at the trailing edge of resource management practices."

[Vektor]

59. That's what I thought.

It's not responsible hunting...it's pure sadism.

I have absolutely no reservations about saying that anyone who would skin a seal alive, and drag it's body across the ice with a meat hook deserves the same fate, or worse. I have heard the line about human life being more important than animal, and while I don't buy that entirely, any human who can skin an animal alive has rendered them self worthless, subhuman, and utterly reprehensible.

[jim3775]

64. They need to learn better,

A bunch of Americans telling the Canadian government what they can and can't do is usually interpreted as an insult. I remember when Cellucci was bitching about cuban cigars. That was the beginning of the end of his credibility.

And I reiterate my point, "skinning of live animals, some no older than 12 days, and the dragging of live seals across the ice using steel hooks." Look up "field dressing" it's the same damn thing.

[Crunchy Frog]

77. Thank you for that very informative post. n/t

[Lorien]

95. Greed and narcissism

same as with most acts of inhumanity. The main reason for the hunt is the return of "fashionable furs"; women dressing up like Sasquatch to flaunt their wealth. I don't buy the 'but we use every part of the seal" crap for one moment.

It's bad enough being ashamed of one's government. More and more, I'm ashamed of my species. I just turned 40, and I wish I were turning 80; I've had enough of the ugliness and brutality of this life. :-(

[JVS]

63. I've been told that clubbing is the best way not to damage the seal's hide

Waste not, want not.

[Minstrel Boy]

71. seal flipper pie

"A Newfoundland tradition! The tender meat of the flipper along with carrots and turnip are blended in a thick dark gravy and topped with a flaky biscuit crust."

http://www.belbins.com/dinnersready.asp?r=sealflipperpie


Seal Flipper Pie
Yield: 1 Servings

Ingredients

3 seal flippers
1 very thin slices of fatback
1 pork
2 inches of water
5 onions, sliced
2 cn beef stock or
3 oxo cubes in
2 c water
2 ts savory
2 ts worcestershire sauce
1 carrot
1 parsnip
1 turnip
1 potatoes
1 flour to thicken
1 crust:
3 c flour
6 ts baking powder
1/4 ts salt
1/4 lb margarine
1 1/2 c milk

Instructions

Note: Skinned turres (a seabird, also known as murres) preboiled for
25 minutes in plain water, may be substituted.

1. Meticulously remove all fat from 3 seal flippers

2. Cover bottom of heavy skillet with very thin slices of fatback
pork.

3. Render the fat, then sear the well-seasoned flippers.

4. To a roasting pan add: 2 inches of water (5 cm if using metric
flippers (sic? measure); 4-5 onions, sliced; 2 cans beef stock or 3
Oxo cubes in 2 cups water; 1 - 2 teaspoons savory; 1 - 2 teaspoons
Worcestershire sauce

5. Add flippers, fatback and cook UNCOVERED for about 1 1/2 hours at
325 degrees F. At this stage the meat should be tender and the bones
can be removed if desired. Add carrot, parsnip, turnip or whatever
plus more water if required; cook an additional 20 minutes. Add
potatoes and cook a further 20 minutes or so. Add flour to thicken.

Crust: 3 cups flour 6 teaspoons baking powder 1/4 teaspoon salt Cut
in 1/4 lb. margarine, rub through fingers until stage of fine crumbs
then add 1 1/2 cups milk. Mix with spoon/hands, roll lightly, cover
flippers etc. in pan or dish. Cook at 375-400 degrees F until browned
(about 20 minutes).

Recommended wine: London Dock (an overproof dark rum). Newfie Screech
may be substituted.

From Mary O'Driscoll, St. John's, Newfoundland
http://recipes.chef2chef.net/recipe-archive/25/137570.shtml

[jim3775]

75. There's a lot of disgusting food in Newfoundland

Think of all of the wonders of Scottish food and then add fish.

Edit: What the hell is "1 Pork"

[lostinacause]

97. Just like the "unborn baby massacure"

No one who doesn’t live in that region should judge them. Most people who live there are relatively poor, barley making a living because of the ban on fishing until stocks are increased.

There are far better candidates for activism. Animals that are in danger of extinction should be a priority. However "Survival of the cutest" must take place. The goal to protect seals is coming from that they are cute rather then the protection being needed. So go eat your farmed fish (very bad for the environment) and protect the cute.

[Vektor]

98. Huh? That is SO not what this post is about.

And you don't need to live in that region to see this is abhorrent. Just like you don't need to live in Africa to know that genocide and female genital mutilation is abhorrent.

This massacre is not to aid the poor. Nor is protesting it to protect "cute" animals. You came up with that, not me. I'd protest the wholesale massacre of warthogs too. Appearance is not the issue.

FYI, I don't eat farmed fish, and these seals are not being clubbed just for food. Nor does an animal need to be endangered to be treated with compassion.

To liken this to abortion and to try to draw parallels in the activism is absurd.

If in your opinion there are "far better candidates for activism" then start your own thread to draw attention to their plight. In my opinion, this IS important.

[Spider Jerusalem]

105. Because the seal population is at an historic high...

(as in "all-time high", that is); the number of seals is adversely affectng balance wityhin the ecosystem, and this hunt is designed to reduce the seal population to manageable levels.

Also, in this part of Canada, fishing and sealing are the traditional means of survival, and essentially the ONLY industries. It seems extremely sanctimonious for people who have utterly no understanding of the economic and ecological realities here to be getting self-righteous about seal hunting, especially when there are far more important things happening in the world.

Why don't YOU try living in a Newfoundland fishing village, with the catch declining and no certainty of being able to feed your family this year, and tell me it's "evil".

[Maru Kitteh]

109. Lets continue to overfish the oceans until they are empty

and slaughter all the animals that dare compete with what WE want. That's a really intelligent solution to the problem of our increasingly barren oceans. :thumbsup:

On edit: YES I will continue to say that killing intelligent animals with pick axes is EVIL, because it is, and I don't really give a shit WHO is doing the killing.

[Catchawave]

110. I support the Sea Shepherd who's on the scene....

..documenting this cruelty. The website also details the politics and profit motivating this massacre. Thanks for caring Vektor, it IS pure unconscionable evil. And what worries me more, are your critics on this thread. I thought Democrats were the compassionate party?


Please visit their weblog which details the events going on right now:

http://shepherd.textamerica.com/

[leesa]

111. Because they aren't becoming extinct fast enough? Because they can?

Some people don't need much of an excuse to be brutal.

[Mother Jones]

112. I agree with you.....it's totally disgusting.

People think Canada is SO green and compassionate etc.... and we are SO not!


This is the epitome of disgusting and I hope anyone considering a visit here will cancel, and send our PM an email explaining why.

[Fescue4u]

115. Because One million would be to many!

Sorry..couldnt resist.