Let's discuss NASCAR

[cally]

I don't get it. I don't understand the focus on the cars.

What is it that makes so many follow the sport. Is it the team work, the ingenuity, the technology??? Before I get asked. I have watched. I would love a car with a power but I chose one that gets more mileage.

I know that Repubs are using fans to promote their agenda.

[NMDemDist2]

1. must we? n/t

[vpigrad]

2. It's a sopa opera.

It has nothing to do with the cars.

[BlueEyedSon]

3. Let's not.

[drummer55]

4. what about the relationship between nascar and fundamentalism?

[IowaGuy]

24. huh?

[vpigrad]

49. They are one in the same (ntxt)

[Vektor]

63. What about the relationship betwen Nascar

and mustaches?

[Ron Green]

5. It's celebrity, pure and simple.

It's a perfect corporate sport, because it allows fans to identify with a particular "personality" and acquire products and totems to bolster their identification. Additionally, of course, the large area of sheet metal on the car is a wondrous billboard for so many products.

[Hello_Kitty]

6. A lot of fans are middle class Red staters

And the events tend to attract such large crowds that it's an ideal venue for the GOP to proseletyze to their socially conservative base. Unfortunately, liberals don't really have similar outlets to appeal to large numbers of people. Our interests and tastes tend to be more varied.

[Ron Green]

9. And liberals tend to be more thoughtful about the automobile and what it's

become in our society. Eight hundred horsepower and 200 mph were fun for many of us when we were kids, but liberals, for the most part, have grown up and realized that a reasonable transportation system is more important than the freedom to go fast, pollute, and pave over the planet.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zinfandel]

39. I would think, the poster "Name removed" would have a lot more posts

than zero...Is someone not counting this persons posts?

[ThoughtCriminal]

8. Wrecks?

Why do think they always show at least one in the promos?

Demolition Derby and Figure-8 are a bit more pure in this respect.

Now, can someone explain why people watch golf on TV?

[jmowreader]

16. Because sleeping pills are too expensive?

[hippiepunk]

10. My uncle is really into it

I dont get it but hes no repug

[Wapsie B]

11. First of all, don't buy into the spin

that NASCAR fans are all rwingers. I have a good friend who's a yellow dog Dem and loves the races. Couldn't find a more avid fan. Sure, a lot of the racing is done down south. But there's still lots of solid Democrats down there.
For the sport itself, it's the thrill of the speed, the thundering roar of the race and the whole atmosphere of being there. People say it's so much different than many other sports crowds. Like being there with 170,000 of your closest friends.

For me a race on TV loses some of it's appeal, because of the lack of sensory input described above. Like golf or baseball, it's better to watch in person, IMHO.

[IowaGuy]

19. well said....this delusion and spin that NASCAR fans are a bunch

of ignorant southern white trash is a little patronizing...and turns off a lot of the great majority of these types of fans that really aren't all that political. It's a little more complex than that. I'm a NASCAR fan, I've been a race fan in general since I was 8 years old. I enjoy all types of racing from motocross to F1.

I do understand some of the sterotyping done of NASCAR fans, however we shoot ourselves in the foot if we buy into it. It's about as ludicrous as saying Mexicans are lazy, blacks are only good for playing basketball, etc. etc...

BTW...Earhhardt Jr. took his whole crew to see F/911 and publicly stated that he thought everybody in Amerioca should see it. You can't get much more southern and NASCAR than him, kind of rocks peoples world and delusions to try and get their head around that.

[kliljedahl]

20. I agree completely

I enjoy all kinds of racing and have for years & never considered myself anything but a liberal. I have a college degree & work in an office, so don't fall for the stereotypes.


http://www.kliljedahl.net

P.S.

GO HAWKS!!!

[IowaGuy]

23. ditto on the Hawks...

seems like we stumbled into a small clique of like-minded individuals...

[kliljedahl]

28. I'm a ex-patriot Hawk

Living in Indy so I get all the racing I want. Class of '71


http://www.kliljedahl.net

[Wapsie B]

44. I live and breath the Black & Gold.

[kliljedahl]

47. Just wish we could get a BB team

Alford doesn't have it in my opinion. DAMN!! I miss Lute & Dr. Tom.


http://www.kliljedahl.net

[Wapsie B]

51. I agree.

But with Steve's tourney birth this year, I think he bought himself some time. Here Captain Kirk puts together a kick-ass football program which by its very nature takes a lot more star athletes. Then we have Alford. The comparison's appalling. I don't understand quite why we can't have a McDonald's All-American on scholly at least every other year here. Sure the stars want to play at the Dukes or Kansas programs. But damn, only a handful of great players would really jumpstart the BB program.

[Nevilledog]

12. Been a fan for years, never been a Repug

My father raced stock cars when he was young and as a family we would go to sprint car races every Friday night. I've always loved racing and always will.

For some reason I find it kind of offensive that people assume everyone who follows NASCAR is a redneck, fundie, or Repug. That's a generalization that is unfounded. Why not focus on football? Everyone who follows football is a <put your stereotype of choice here>.

Most people who are true followers of racing understand the nuances and complexity of the sport. Those who have no interest in racing don't care about these things and that's fine by me.

Bottom line: keep your stereotypes to yourself and you won't look so ignorant to those they don't apply to.

[cally]

18. Please check my post

What I posted was that Repubs are using Nascar fans as a base for their agenda. I did not suggest that all Nascar fans support them.

Back at you: Keep your stereotypes to yourself. Yes, I don't get Nascar fans, yes, I from California. I'm asking a question about a sport that I don't understand. That doesn't make me IGNORANT.

[Nevilledog]

27. That wasn't really directed at you, sorry.

Cally... sorry that it seemed I meant that solely for you. It really was more in response to the people making more pointed comments.

As to Repugs using NASCAR as a focus point.... I've personally never experienced that, but the races we've been to have been West of the Mississippi.

[cally]

31. Thanks, I'm actually asking this without an agenda

sort of. I just don't get NASCAR. I always want liberals to win elections so I'm trying to figure out why they lose the NASCAR vote.

[Nevilledog]

34. How big of an issue is this in context?

Are there actual studies or numbers you're relying on in regards to the NASCAR vote? Are there comparable ones that relate to football, baseball, basketball, etc? My gut feeling says that statistically there probably isn't a huge difference and therefore it's probably not really an issue.

[cally]

38. Don't know the numbers

but I do know that Repubs targetted NASCAR fans. Remember * touching down to commune with the fans. That wasn't a get to know the folks moment but an attempt to get out the base.

If you want to start a new thread asking for numbers then I'll do a search.

[Nevilledog]

40. Nah, that's okay

I was just interested if you were commenting on a specific study or poll.

[frylock]

13. what's to understand?

Why do people follow reality TV? Pop music? Women's soccer? Why do people find a need to question or tear down what others enjoy?

For some, it's a form of entertainment. I think a lot of people relate to it because they drive their cars every day. Perhaps they think they could drive like that too. Speaking for myself, I've been a fan of most forms of racing since I was 5 or 6 years old. My dad would take me to the races when I was a kid, and one of my friend's dads raced every weekend down at the local short track.

I like the different tracks on the NASCAR circuit. Just because they are ovals doesn't mean they all drive alike. I enjoy the pit strategies and racing styles. And yes, the cars look cool.

[jmowreader]

14. Why NASCAR is the best sport

Get out your newspaper and look at the sports section. Specifically, the crime report.

Baseball players busted for abusing their spouses/girlfriends/both.

Football players busted for steroid abuse.

Hockey players busted for stealing cars. (Okay, most of this is because, with the NHL season cancelled, they've got nothing better to do.)

Basketball players busted for shooting people.

You never see a race car driver in the crime report. Why? Look at the side of a race car. The companies represented by all of those logos DO NOT expect to find "the driver of the Miller Lite Dodge" or "the crew chief of the Kellogg's Chevrolet" involved in a crime. Therefore, it NEVER happens--the race team owners know how to select non-fuckups as employees, they know how to get rid of people before they start screwing up, and the employees at every level know they're replaceable. Tony Stewart might be a great driver, but he knows that there are a thousand great drivers walking the streets of Charlotte right now.

If I was king of America, I would fix the problems endemic in all of the non-racing sports by requiring corporate sponsorship of ballteams. Instead of the Carolina Panthers, they would be the Wachovia Panthers; and instead of the Boston Red Sox, they'd be the Gillette Red Sox. Gillette is NOT going to allow grown men who act like little boys to damage its good name by going to bars and punching out the other patrons, and Wachovia doesn't want to hear about its football players using steroid cream.

[Ron Green]

17. I think you'll get your wish, because the stadiums are already being named

for corporate sponsors. It won't be long before the jerseys are sold to corporations too.

[jakefrep]

43. Been to a pro (or even big college) ballgame lately?

There's no shortage of corporate sponsorship signage at any of those places. Apparently they aren't bothered too much by the supposedly high rate of crime committed by those athletes.

[jmowreader]

55. That's not quite what I was thinking

If the Golden State Warriors were the Sunkist Warriors, would Latrell Spreewell have gotten the (relatively light) punishment he got for choking his coach, or would he have been bounced from the league never to pick up a basketball again?

Jeff Gordon is one of the highest-paid professional athletes and he's 33. He doesn't even double-park. Aside from a messy divorce from Miss Winston and some unprovable rumors about his sex life, Jeff Gordon off the track behaves himself.

OTOH, Mike Dunleavy, who's pretty much Jack Armstrong the All American Boy, gets no press because he's a basketball player who behaves himself.

[jakefrep]

60. So what's your point?

I wouldn't judge the "stick-and-ball" sports based on the .1% that are knuckleheads who get 99.9% of the (bad) press). I don't think NASCAR is necessarily superior in that regard. There are only 42 of those guys vs. 400 in the NBA, 1,500 in the NFL, 800 in MLB, and 750 in the NHL.

[jmowreader]

66. There's a lot more than 42 people in NASCAR

A few years ago, a couple of Hendrick Motorsports' people were at a track and made some weird racial slur directed toward a black fan--called him a lawn jockey or something. These guys were back-room types--not drivers or even pit crewmen, but mechanics from the shop--the kind of people who don't get let out in public much. Hendrick publicly fired their asses and NASCAR started the huge Diversity Initiative at that time.

You're probably looking at 5000 to 10,000 people in NASCAR at team level, and all are under a microscope. (Remember that NASCAR isn't just Nextel Cup--there are three national touring series, plus some regional stuff.) Hendrick Motorsports alone employs at least 400 people--the same number as there are players in the NBA.

[jakefrep]

68. There are 42 drivers...

and there is no way in hell that the floor sweeper for a NASCAR team is "under the microscope" to the extent of any professional athlete.

[KamaAina]

67. The Gillette Red Sox would be about to undergo a name change

Gillette having just been bought out by Procter & Gamble (owners of the P&G Reds :-) ). Boston and New England are starting to run out of A-list corporations (the FleetCenter is in a simlar situation!). Dunkin' Donuts Red Sox, perhaps?

What you describe is the way Japanese baseball works. Yomiuri (newspaper) Giants, Yakult (yogurt company, of all things) Swallows, and my favorite, Nippon Ham Fighters. Everyone knows 'Nippon' means 'Japan', so they mistakenly read "Ham Fighters" as the team name!

[leveymg]

15. Loud rolling corporate billboards that often disintegrate in flames

occasionally killing their occupants.

I wouldn't use fancy terms, such as a metaphor for late capitalism, to describe it. Folks might misunderstand.



:evilgrin: :bounce:

[Coventina]

22. ROFL!!!

Yikes!

[tjdee]

21. How is it different from watching men run around a diamond?

Baseball is the same thing, really.
Perhaps it's closer to watching sprints, as in the Olympics.

Some people like that stuff, some like curling....

[Dunedain]

25. This subject will end up just going around in circles n/t

[kliljedahl]

30. To the left remember

http://www.kliljedahl.net

[libnnc]

26. Let's remember NASCAR's origins for a second...

Used to be a very populist sport. It's founders began, literally, racing to see who could get to Knoxville or Atlanta the fastest (without losing their load of illegal hooch).

My dad was a teenager in the late 1940s and made his money running moonshine for the local sheriff (who was the biggest bootlegger in the county at the time). In the early 60s he parlayed that experience to the small dirt tracks in Western North Carolina--won a few races and knew the Kings of the sport.

That's the NASCAR I try to remember. Young men in modified fast cars running from the law...pretty populist stuff IMHO.

It's a shame that corporations have ruined the true roots of the sport.

[leveymg]

36. You can thank Bill France for that

He's the one who built the Superspeedways and invited big money sponsorships. He proved the addage: build it and they will come.

Before that, it was just an expensive hobby for owners of car dealerships. Until the mid-1970s, when stock car racing became Winston Cup racing, NASCAR still had a claim to being a competitive proving ground between the Big Three automakers and various automotive fuels and accessories companies.

Today, NASCAR bears little or no relationship to the technologies that find their way into passenger cars. They are still awesome to watch at the Glen, I have to admit.

[kaitykaity]

29. It 's a white crowd watching white guys.

It's not the whole crowd, but a lot of people
go so they don't have to be around black people.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/03/09/CM162371.DTL

NASCAR RISING
Why are sports' newest superstars paunchy white men? And how did they take over your TV?
C.W. Nevius

Sunday, March 9, 2003

The roar begins in the early morning on a hot day in June up in the Wine Country. It rolls through the Sonoma Valley and shakes the leaves in the vineyards. Forget about traffic. No one is moving for miles. They are on their way, more than 100,000 strong, headed for that sound, the awesome rumble and whine of a 750 horsepower engine running flat out.

Listen closely - it's the sound of the future.

It's time to wake up and smell the high octane. The good ol' boys of stock car racing are bringing their "Days of Thunder" to a city - and television set - near you. The Chevys, Fords, Pontiacs and Dodges of the National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing Inc. (NASCAR) are suddenly the hottest rides in the U.S. of A.

[EBK]

32. Maybe it`s just the "triumph" of winning - that goes for any sport

Everyone has their favorite, and cheers for them(envisioned as themselves), and when their pick wins it allows them to feel as if they too have become a winner. If they lose, it only makes them strive to be better.

If you have a fast car and can drive - it could be you. Same thing with any sport. It you have talent(some natural, some earned) and tools, you can be a winner.



Plus following a car go around in a circle is easier than following a fastball.

[QC]

33. Let's discuss why people get so bent out of shape over NASCAR.

There's something to the question, since some variation on this thread gets posted every week or so.

So let's have some theories as to why the subject is so endlessly fascinating to so many here.

Here's my theory: griping about NASCAR is more often than not an acceptable way to dump on the proles.

What's yours?

[cally]

37. Read the post and then respond

It's fascinating to me because...yes...the Repubs are using Nascar fans as a political base. I want to understand why. You don't like my question, then hit alert or just ignore it.

I've never posted my question before...ever. I don't understand how you can think about Dems being elected without thinking about the Repubs using Nascar fans. Dems have to figure out how to win this block.


BTW...not going there.

[Lugnut]

35. Thank you

As a long-time NASCAR fan and lifelong Democrat I appreciate your civility on the subject of NASCAR.

As for you questions I think it's all of those characetistics that you mentioned. The technology fascintes me along with all the strategy involved. I love the speed but I don't like the wrecks.

My car has a 3.1 L engine and I get over 30 mpg on a trip and slightly less in short trip driving. I love to watch the high performance race cars. I don't want to own one. :)

[jakefrep]

45. There is no technology in NASCAR

Engines with carburetors on them haven't been available in the showroom since the 70's. NASCAR would be much more interesting if the racing vehicles were still actually based on street vehicles.

[IowaGuy]

50. agreed that carburetion is a somewhat antiquated fuel mixing ....

and delivery system...but 800+ HP from a normally aspirated Carbureted engine?....there apparently is some pretty high end technology happening somewhere....the evidence speaks for itself.

[bvar22]

53. Can you turn a carburated American V-8 engine

..10,000 RPM without cutting edge technology?

Didn't think so.

[jmowreader]

57. You can't turn it 10,000 RPM even with cutting edge technology

When those engines hit 9000 RPM things start falling off them.

If you were to run a pushrod engine to 10,000 RPM, the valves would start floating and you'd lose a LOT of power. You can get 10,000 out of an IRL engine which has overhead cams, and you can get 15,000 out of a Formula/1 engine which drives its valvetrain by compressed air, but you're not getting more than maybe 9200 out of a pushrod engine no matter how fancy the valvetrain is.

[XemaSab]

41. This dude in New Hampshire

volunterring for the Dean campaign said he was called up for a survey by Time/CNN and they asked him about his politics and they asked him if he watched NASCAR. His brother-in-law (who is a republican) is a huge NASCAR fan, and so when he's over at his house he watches the races with him.

CNN called back a week later and asked if he wanted to be interviewed on TV because he was the only Democrat they could find who watched NASCAR on a regular basis.

My understanding of the history of car racing is that it started in the South during prohibition.

[onager]

42. Not quite true of NASCAR...

Nothing but whiskey-running Southern rednecks, eh...

"While tradition labels stock car racing as a pure Southern sport, early years of Grand National competition saw almost half the races run north of the Mason-Dixon line.

In 1950, 10 of the 19 Grand National 100-milers were run in front of Yankee crowds, with northerners like Bill Rexford, Dick Linder, Jimmy Florian, Lloyd Moore and Johnny Mantz winning 7 of the 19 races..."

(From "NASCAR Off The Record" by Brock Yates)

The first two NASCAR champions were Bill Rexford (from the Southern state of New York) and Dick Linder (from that traditional Confederate stronghold, Pennsylvania).

[IowaGuy]

48. USAC and IMCA used to rule stock car racing....

these events were largely held in the midwest and northern states...
wily old Bill France got NASCAR into the TV game and so now they are the winner. This too will change some day...again, stock car racing fans, racing fans in general is a much larger group than the sterotypical southern bubba...and has been for for over half a century.

[jmowreader]

58. Your understanding is correct

The original stock car racers all ran shine.

Then the competitive bug hit and the runners wanted to know whose car was the fastest. They ran shine six days a week and raced each other on Sunday. At first they ran on horse-racing tracks at fairgrounds, and on the beach at Daytona.

Bill France was promoting these races. He went to the chairman of the North Carolina State Fair and asked to be allowed to promote a "stock car race." The chairman asked what the hell a stock car race was. He was soon to learn and France was eager to teach. Stock car races became a staple of fairs across the South.

The first purpose-built stock car track was Daytona International Speedway.

I would love to see NASCAR honor a bit of the past by asking the drivers to put a box with some plastic gallon jugs filled with water (to represent the boxes of shine the original racers cut their teeth hauling--shine looks like water if it's made right, so it's a fair substitution) in the trunks of their cars.

[porphyrian]

46. No. I'm sick of fucking nascar. - n/t

[quaoar]

52. Drivers are from all over the country

There are more current Nextel Cup drivers from Indiana and Wisconsin and California and Connecticut and Washington and Nevad than there are from Alabama.

[Lugnut]

54. You are correct

There are more drivers from somewhere other than the South in NASCAR. I did a count last season just because I wanted to know and the results surprised me.

PA was among the earliest states to hold stock cars races at countless local short tracks. Also the NHRA competes at Maple Grove in PA. The CART open wheel series used to race at Nazareth until a few years ago as well.

[seabeyond]

56. i went to one in carmel valley with a lot of movie stars and beer

and i was under 21. best event i ever went to. was just a blast

looked at the cars all of a minute or two then went back to playing and drinking.

[neomonkey]

59. NASCAR is for idiots.

It's the culture. It's the atmosphere, the shared mindset that occurs when throngs of thousands of like-minded fans congregate. I've been to NASCAR events, and they are very predictable. It's like going to church, or an AA meeting, or even, sorry to say, a Ralph Nader Green Party rally in 2000.

Basically, it's a bunch of people who root for drivers and a bunch of people who also happen to love certain facets of life deemed "redneck" or "right-wing."

Personally, I think NASCAR is boring as shit. The cars, from the tires up, are tuned for one thing, and one thing only, which is long ovals. Can't blame the racing teams, really, they are paid to win. But the tuning required to turn a few hundred laps in the quickest amount of time is rudimentary and not quite that exhilirating.

I love cars, I love fast cars, I love cars that eat up gas like a roach eats up human nails, however, once they hit the pavement in the middle of Americana, I think we are pushing our luck.

Take the time to catch a good rally race. There is truly some entertainment and nuance to that form of racing which is light-years away from the hypnotic dumbing of NASCAR.

[onager]

61. True, they ain't "stock cars" anymore...

Today they're basically the same NASCAR-mandated chassis and engine with a different, non-stock body shell.

I love watching vids and reading about the early days, when they really WERE stock cars...almost straight off the showroom floor.

One book talks about the first time the NASCAR rules mandated roll bars. They left out the word "steel" or "metal." So some drivers nailed two-by-fours together to strictly meet the wording. (That was changed pretty quick, IIRC.)

Back then, truly weird things won in NASCAR. Like Hudson Hornets, Oldsmobiles, and big-ass full-size Chryslers. When Bill Holland got banned from racing in the Indianapolis 500, he went to NASCAR and raced a Cadillac.

I saw an ESPN show once on the history of NASCAR. Junior Johnson said something like: "We never got safety equipment 'till somebody got killed."

[adwon]

62. Hmm

Someone called Nascar a soap opera in a previous post. They had that just right. Nascar is a complex and real version of wrestling.

I heard the GOP was going to try recruiting at Nascar events. I have my doubts as to how successful it will be. The diehard Nascar fans that I've known are apolitical as hell. They view, as an example I've been given, W and Bill Clinton to be two sides of the same coin. In my experience, they found all politicians to be full of shit and had no use for them.

I just want to see some dumb Republican try to fit in and claim to be a fan of one driver or the other (haha, please let it be Jeff Gordon). The silly bastard will find himself attacked from all directions.

P.S. I'm not knocking Gordon. He's just not a terribly popular driver in NC.

[MrSlayer]

64. OK. Left turn, left turn, left turn, repeat 100 times, stupid race ends.

All discussed. Can anyone think of a bigger waste of oil and gasoline than this crap?

[Swamp Rat]

65. Vrrroom! Glug glug glug... Vrrroom!...

Vvvvvvvrrrrrrrrreeeeaaaaaaooooooooowwwwww!!!!!! ... for hours and hours, going around and around in circles... ad infinitum. :eyes: