I've been wondering if the Fundies are trying to seduce the Catholics

[Coventina]

I watch God-TV from time to time, just to see what's going on in Fundie-land.

One thing I've noticed is that it SEEMS TO ME that they have been softening their anti-Catholic stance lately.

Things I've noticed:

1. Actual Catholic programs being aired on religious stations.

2. Catholic clergy as guests on some Fundie programs.

3. Nice things being said about JPII by Fundie hosts.

4. And something that might see irrelevant, but may not be on a subconscious level. A sort of visual element of the Baroque decorating style which echoes elements of many Catholic churches. A focus on material things as representing the faith.

Just a day or so ago I saw that this month's "Love gift" for donating to TBN includes a scrap of material they were calling a "Prayer cloth" (?!?!?!?!?!)

My theory is that the Fundies are trying to seduce the Catholics into their fold. Because Catholics are (officially) anti-abortion, anti-gay and such, I'm thinking the Fundies think they can use them to get more political clout.

What do you think?

[acmavm]

1. Water sinks to it's own level. You might be on to something.

P.S. I'm Catholic. I can't tell the difference between them on most days.

[BrklynLiberal]

2. Absolutely...see these threads

When did conservatives stop being anti-Catholic?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1699736

Very chilling statements tracing Bush's ploy to cull Christian votes..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1701133

EDIT: Did you see that story about the Fundamentalist Church in Tenn? WV? SC? that ended its affiliation with a food bank because it was also affiliated with a Roman Catholic Church? I will post the link when I find it.

[mcg]

3. It's an alliance.

But I'd guess that many of the fundies will say, behind closed doors, that the Catholics are going to hell because the Catholics "aren't really Christian" (as well as non-fundie Protestants, and of course, everyone else).

[noamnety]

4. The Catholics created the moral majority

1975, annual meeting of the American Catholic Bishops. If it seemed to you that the catholics were not welcome there before now, they did a good with their front groups.

"Paul Weyrich, a Catholic, claims credit for originating the idea for the group and the name itself. In their search for an attractive front man for the organization, they chose Jerry Falwell."

http://www.population-security.org/STLouis99.html

[UTUSN]

5. Fundies "Seducing". Ewwwwww n/t

[Feathered Fish]

6. At mass this morning

the Father was talking about the redundancy of people who proclaim that they are people of faith (especially politicians). It's redundant, he said, because they are only faithful when convenient or when they can "prove" their faith to large audiences, thus making them not very faithful. I truly believe he was referring to the fiasco that was taking place in Florida re: Mrs. Schiavo. Although many Catholics were not happy with the decision of removing the tube, many more were happy to see her freed from a suffering non-existance. Catholics are far more private with their faith, and the fundies are not going to convince most of them that they need to preach to all so that they may be saved.

[alcuno]

9. At mass yesterday, the priest said...

"We may not have all agreed with the Holy Father on issues of doctrine, but we can all agree is that personally, he was a great, great man." WHAT!!!!

[Clark2008]

22. Your priest said this?

:wow:

[rzemanfl]

7. Anybody can seduce a Catholic. I've done it many times. n/t

[Clark2008]

21. Hey! I resemble that remark!

:P

[alcuno]

8. I think that Catholics are split. The fundies can seduce the right-wing

because they are already together. But I heard an amazing stat today that said a majority of American Catholics do not favor a repeal of Roe v. Wade and Pat Buchanan claimed that half of American Catholics were heretics!

We are bound by Catholicism, not all this other junk.

[Clark2008]

24. But Catholics, historically, are also pro-union, against unjust wars

and the death penalty, too, according to doctrine - all of which fall more on the Democratic side of the political spectrum.

Some of the most liberal people in this country have been Catholics. I'm guess the reich wing is playing up the abortion and gay issues and conveniently leaving out their stances on the corportization of America, their blood-lust for war and their other Culture of Death stances.

[coloradodem2005]

10. Maybe.

I know that the evangelical church I used to go to disapproved of catholics. But then, one girl I knew was Catholic and has acted like an Evangelical.

[stray cat]

11. Definitely and a vocal minority of us help by denigrating any faith.

No wonder the conservatives do a better job recruiting then we do.

[merh]

12. Fundies hate Catholics and most Catholics know that.

Catholics are not considered part of the group that will be raptured.

If you are referring to all of the media coverage of the Pope, you are mistaken that it is a political attempt to court the Catholics.

It is actual news. Popes are considered world leaders and the death of a pope and election of his replacement is history in the making, the end of one era and the beginning of another.

Also, if the media coverage bothers you, you must be too young to remember the media coverage when Pope John Paul II's two predecessor's died and the naming of Pope John Paul I and Pope John II.

That coverage lasted for days, endless, continuing coverage of what the deceased pope had done with his life, who would be the new pope, how did he die, et cetera. The only difference then was the number of networks and the options available to the viewing public.

We had 3 networks and maybe a few UL stations. We didn't have cable news and the cable programming available was far too expensive for the average citizen to be able to afford (it was considered a luxury of the elite). Just imagine days of watching that blessed smoke stack, waiting for white smoke or black smoke, and listening to news reporters telling us every thing they could about the pope and the church, trying to maintain our interest as we watched the blessed smoke stack.

We had no other choice but to watch the coverage on television, if we wanted to watch television, because that was all there was.

We didn't have DVDs or VCR movies available (Hell, VCRs were the huge beta tapes and most units were very expensive and luxury items owned by well to do folks who used them to record programs.) No block busters existed then because the few movies available on tape were very expensive and few had VCRs.

So this media coverage is not new or surprising or part of the plot to indoctrinate catholics into their fundie base. It is just what it is, actual news coverage.

So take off your :tinfoilhat: and relax. You have other options available to you to watch - rent a DVD, catch a movie on cable or read a book. This is history in the making - it is not a ploy. If anything, most catholics (1 billion strong and counting) will be very pissed off with the media if they continue to compare the weed or St. Raygun to the Pope. The pope is the leader of the faith, weed and raygun were just presidents. Comparing scriveled tangerines to an Apple, imho.

[Coventina]

16. No. I wasn't referring to the Pope-o-mania currently on TV

But that is what reminded me about this issue. It's been something that has been percolating in my brain for awhile now.

I forgot to add in my original post another point: The complete embrace of "The Passion of the Christ" by the fundies.
My local TBN affiliate runs shows about it almost non-stop.

I do agree with you about JPII's death and the naming of his replacement as being legitimate news.

[merh]

25. IMHO, the repukes are trying to get catholics to join their base.

They are using the "tort reform" promises and the "faith based initiatives" to buy the American Catholic leaders.

The American leaders ignored the Vatican's stance on the chosing a candidate during the 2004 election. They did not ask their parishoners to consider all of the candidates' stances on all of the issues, they limited the consideration to abortion and gay rights and instructed them that they had to chose a candidate based on their stance on those 2 issues. The American church leaders were bought for their 30 pieces of silver and sold out their flock.

They were promised that the lawsuits against their dioceses that were bankrupting them would go away (those silly nusaince suits with priests and children :sarcasm: ), they were bought (as are other religious organizations in the US) off by the offering of "faith based initiative" moneys.

If anything, the catholics are trying to seize upon the "perceived popularity" of the fundies and hitch their wagon to that popularity. Its all about attendance and marketing and you have to get the people in your pews to get the money in your collection basket.

Lobbyists are todays legitimate flim/flam artists, they are the carnival barkers of our time. They have convinced too many that the fundies and the neo-cons positions are the popular positions, the only problem is, their lies are slowly being exposed.

[Coventina]

26. Very interesting. Thanks for the post.

Do you think a schism may erupt between the American Catholic church and the Roman Catholic?

[merh]

27. No I don't.

I see the new pope making changes in leadership. I don't know why I see that, maybe because of the faith I hold that God would not have called JPII to his side if he didn't have a reason.

I think he realized it was time for new blood in the leadership. For some reason I cannot explain, I feel that the new pope will bring about changes that will bring healing and that will unify the factions.

A new era is upon us.

[merh]

30. FYI -- MSNBC is running a history of the deaths of the last 2 popes

and the appointment of JPII. It is very interesting.

[Coventina]

31. I don't have cable tv.

:-(

Thanks for thinking of me, though.

[merh]

35. You are welcome!

:hi:

[EFerrari]

34. On the nose, merh. n/t

[merh]

39. Hello my friend!

Good to see you, sfexpat. :hi:



I do appreciate the encouragement! I hope your pain is easing. :hug:

[EFerrari]

40. Thank you! Yes, much better today, new day.

Thanks for the hug. Here's one for you

:hug:

[Ilsa]

13. I think they have done "prayer cloths" for awhile, though.

I think I saw that sort of thing on a decade ago.

So they are using icons within the "Fundie"-type chapels now?

[Coventina]

19. I did see an honest-to-God crucifix on a TBN set not too long ago.

You know, one with an actual Christ on the cross.

I had NEVER seen that before.

[K-W]

14. Of course they are. EOM

[Junkdrawer]

15. Catholics = 24.5% of US Adults...Fundies = 2 or 3% maybe...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3413040

So, yeah, I'd say they're recruiting allies...

[Coventina]

17. FORGOT TO ADD "PASSION OF THE CHRIST" MANIA

That was another of my points I meant to add (but forgot) in my original post.

The fundies have embraced this very Catholic movie as if it were their own. Mel Gibson is loved and worshipped as the greatest movie-maker ever.

My local TBN affiliate runs "Passion" specials practically non-stop.

[Avalux]

18. Catholics aren't "saved"

and growing up Catholic, it was clear the born-agains hated us and thought we were all going to hell. No matter how hard the fundies try to seduce Catholics, I don't think it'll work with most. Unless of course you're a freak like Santorum and side with the fundies - but that's for political gain.

[Clark2008]

20. Yes, they've been trying to seduce them for some time.

And, they've been doing it to the Jews, too, for even longer.

What we Catholics and Jews need to be explaining to our priests and rabbis, respectively, is that these people want to convert us and/or kill us as part of their Rapture theory. They certainly don't think either Catholics or Jews (and certainly not Muslims) will be raptured!

[Coventina]

23. You are correct. I have a "personal testimony" to prove it

I attended several fundie/borderline fundie churches growing up.

At one of them I remember the pastor saying in a sermon that the anti-christ will probably be whoever is Pope at the time of the Rapture.

[Princess Turandot]

28. I think most Catholics & Jews know that already. nt

[Princess Turandot]

29. What's a 'prayer cloth'?

I'm Catholic and that's not ringing a bell with me.Are you talking about some sort of head covering?

[Coventina]

32. Not exactly sure myself.

What they showed on TBN was a little square of white cloth, maybe 4 by 4 inches?

It has writing on it, but they didn't give a close-up shot of what the writing was. I'm guessing maybe some scripture.

I didn't mean to indicate that "prayer cloths" are Catholic. I actually got the impression that it was some kind of TBN invention. I was just wondering if these physical things are a way of trying to appeal to traditional Catholics (like a Rosary, but they wouldn't want to be that blatent about it).

[Junkdrawer]

36. I Googled this up...

FOR ANY CALL OR PLEDGE, ORNATE SILVER BOX WITH PRAYER CLOTH



http://www.tbn.org/about/newsletter/index.php/579.html

[Coventina]

37. Yep! There it is!

And this is their "explanation"

But in addition, we have included an anointed prayer cloth that has been prayed over by saints of God believing that the small token will be a point of contact for the sick and afflicted as recorded in the books of Acts:
“AND GOD GAVE PAUL THE POWER TO DO UNUSUAL MIRACLES, SO THAT EVEN WHEN HIS HANDKERCHIEFS OR PARTS OF HIS CLOTHING WERE PLACED UPON SICK PEOPLE, THEY WERE HEALED, AND ANY DEMONS WITHIN THEM CAME OUT.” Acts 19:11, 12 TLB.

There is no power or magic in the cloth itself, but it can be that point of contact where the person’s faith touches the hem of Jesus’ garment just as the woman with the issue of blood.

[TriMetFan]

33. Fundies/Neo-Cons can try all they want...

to chase us Catholics, but we might not be perfect but we are a diverse group. We do believe in helping the poor and the needy. Also even though Pope John Paul II has passed like other Catholics here have posted, we have learned to understand the the Pope is just a man. Yes he did some Great things, but he also was not perfect.

Even in church this morning we only said one prayer to John Paul and then went on to our normal service. We Catholics have alot of work to do in just getting our house inorder. We need to come to terms with the child abuse that has run amuck in our church and try to heal from this great wound.

[merh]

41. The Pope represents Peter

and Peter denied the Lord 3 times. He was very human, as is anyone appointed to be the pope.

A belated welcome to DU, btw! :hi:

[Cuban_Liberal]

38. It won't happen. n/t