Religion today...it's not rocket science kids.

[Neshanic]

Born Again Christians want this nation as a Theocracy.

Robertson and the usual suspects are trying to make it so.

Born Again Christians hate Catholics, Protestants, any organized religion.

Any Catholic or Protestant that thinks that Roberston and Born Agains respect them is delusional.

Go to any Fundamentalist, or Evangelical Christain/Born Again Church and see for yourself.

It's basic. It's simple. If you have not "Born Again" you are the enemy.

It's just that simple.

[LoZoccolo]

1. It's like you haven't read a single religion thread on DU ever.

Where did you come from?

[Neshanic]

3. Read in what way? What is your point?

[LoZoccolo]

7. My point is your post is either naive or deliberately inflammatory.

There are evangelical Christians on DU all the time, in just about every religion thread, saying that the kind of things you're claiming in your post are not true.

[alcuno]

9. It's the fundamentalists.

Their way is the only way. Thus the term fundamentalist.

[LoZoccolo]

10. That's like, almost the same thing.

I had this discussion with someone else the other day, who pointed out there were seperate Wikipedia entries for the two terms, but didn't read them, because they would have found this:

Besides self-described Fundamentalists, many self-labelled Evangelicals, Pentecostals, and Mennonites; and The Confessing Movement in the Mainline denominations -- all otherwise diverse groups -- hold to the Five Fundamentals. On the other hand, the plasticity of the label appears when one of these groups condemns another as a "fundamentalist".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Christianity

The two concepts are not orthogonal.

[Neshanic]

11. Well then, You will be quite surprised in the coming years.

Of course it's not true. Why would it be true?

It's not like they are trying to take over the government or anything.

Do yourself a favor and go to a Evangelical/Born Again Church for a month. You will see.

[LoZoccolo]

12. *yawn*

They must be confused about their plot to take over the government, seeing that 39% of them are Democrats, 33% of them voted for Kerry, and 21% of white evangelical protestants voted for Kerry as well.

But never mind that, you can keep ranting and raving if it makes you feel good. The Republicans love people like you, who scoot that contingent over to their side at the same time they are beckoning them. I think you will be quite surprised in the coming years when maybe they'll with 55-45 or 57-43 next time.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

15. I give you hard facts in response to your manic paranoid rantings...

...and you call me ignorant.

I'm through with you. I've made my point for anyone else to see.

[Neshanic]

17. What was your point? A link to a site?

[LoZoccolo]

18. Go back and read #12.

Keep reading past the "*yawn*" this time.

[Neshanic]

22. Religion by the poll numbers...I get it. Problem is they get it more.

[LoZoccolo]

24. That's right they get it more.

Unfortunately. And they'll get it even more thanks to people like you. The Republicans open the door, and you kick them through it.

[Neshanic]

25. My God, I had no idea that I had more Power than Robertson!

[LoZoccolo]

28. The far left provided an impetus for the religious right.

People complain that that the pledge of allegiance was changed in the fifties to add the words "under God" and that our money was changed so that the words "In God we trust" were put on it, but these were in response to communism's threatened ban of religion. People forget that part.

So yes, I stand by the notion that there are two forces working in tandem on this one.

[Neshanic]

29. Nice try, no cigar. The Religious RW is the one force responsible

Probably one of the more stunning apologist theories of our alleged demise, and loss of elections.

We drove you to it. Not your hate monger Swaggert type preacher, not your Falwell/Bob Jones sickos. Not the carefull recruitment of Ralph Reeds minions.

I feel so ashamed. I really should apologize like a good little Democrat. Well, like we always do.

[LoZoccolo]

30. This time I invite /you/ to check out their propaganda.

It capitalizes on our broad-brushing and dehumanizing tactics all the time. Go all the way back to McCarthy and the John Birch Society, which predates pretty much everything you mentioned. You don't even mention the Moral Majority from the seventies.

[Neshanic]

33. Why stop at the 20th Century? It's 2005, these are the facts.

I don't make up the facts, just report em'.

[LoZoccolo]

34. And yet you have to constantly try to remind us that they are "facts".

There used to be a newspaper in the Soviet Union which had to remind you that it was the "truth" at the top of the front page.

[Neshanic]

38. Go see for youself. Go to a Fundamentalist church.

Then report back to us with the math of religion gone nuts.

[LoZoccolo]

40. *yawn*

I don't know where you've been, but in any event it's not enough to say the kind of things you say, especially since you should know better just from reading posts here. Which brings me back to my first reply.

Anyways, you've pretty much embarassed yourself enough for anyone who ends up on this thread. My time is precious, and I think I'll reclaim it now.

[Neshanic]

41. Feel free.

[LoZoccolo]

32. Fuck, go all the way back to the Roman Empire if you want.

Part of the reason they were so successful is that they took political power while leaving most of the religious beliefs of the civilizations they invaded intact. They chose their battles carefully, and enjoyed great success on account of it.

[LoganW]

45. With all due respect

these responses are full of it.

The OP is entirely correct. The problem is you seem to identify with the group he is talking about. Thus you are either 1. Confused about who he is indeed talking about or 2. You are that group, and thus would be entirely opposed to everything the party stands for.

If you can't see what the religious fundamentalists are doing then I can only suggest you take off the rose glasses ASAP.

[Neshanic]

46. Are you sure it was not the hippies at Woodstock's fault?

[LoZoccolo]

48. Please, I give statistics and a bit of history...

...and all you two had to offer was the kind of raving partially responsible for the trouble we're in to begin with. The statistics are in direct contradiction to #1, and to act as if they're not threatens to make the problem of the religious right even bigger as I've demonstrated.

On top of that, you have no right to accuse me of #2 if you were really reading what I said and thinking about what I was trying to prove. It's the same kind of shortsighted tactic I'm complaining about.

[LoZoccolo]

49. Here, you didn't hear it from me.

In 1954, after a campaign initiated by the Roman Catholic Knights of Columbus, Senator Homer Ferguson of Michigan sponsored a bill to amend the pledge to include the words under God, to distinguish the U.S. from the officially atheist Soviet Union, and to remove the appearance of flag and nation worship. The phrase "nation, under God" previously appeared in Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, and echoes the Declaration of Independence. On June 8, 1954, Congress adopted this change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_allegiance

[magnussun]

23. dominionists

Dominionists are trying to take our the world. True Christians try their best to follow Christ. Political Christians do not. Don't let the crackpots dictate what Christians in general stand for.

M

[truth2power]

47. I know someone who identifies themself as an Evangelical

who has told me, more than once, that Roman Catholics are not real Christians.

[Tweed]

2. I'm not sure what your point is

I don't think you have enlightened anyone here. I don't mean to be rude, but this is all common knowledge here.

[Neshanic]

6. Really? Then someone better clue in some of the others.

[Tweed]

13. Got any examples?

What is your point? I'm confused.

[Neshanic]

16. Examples of what? Our governent on a way to Theocracy?

If you have not been to a Fundamentalist/Evangelical/Born Again church.....you have no idea.

Try it. Then you will see. From the smallest to the largest church, of this type, they have the same message.

The Fundamentalist Church that would not associate with the Catholic Food Bank.

By the way if you have digital cable, how many religious shows/networks/preachers are on a typical weekend?

Counted 10 stations on mine, and they were all right-wing Fundmentalist. Not one Catholic, not one Jewish, not one anything else.

He wants examples.

[Tweed]

19. I understand what the Fundamentalists Churches are trying to do

and most people on DU do as well. Does your post have anything to do with the Pope and Catholics?

[Neshanic]

21. No, just the point that we all are wrong, according to them.

[cynatnite]

4. It's like you took a huge paint brush over thousands of people

and painted them all the same exact color.

[Neshanic]

8. Like thousands told they are not worthy because of a belief?

[Bluebear]

5. I'm guessing we hold these truths to be self-evident!

[murielm99]

20. I am not quite sure why everyone is jumping down your throat

tonight.

What you are saying about Robertson and the fundies of his ilk is true. Maybe some DUers are disrespecting you because most of us here know this already.

Maybe some of them are disagreeing with your terminology, or they are operating under a definition they assume you know. For example, I am an evangelical Christian. I believe the four Gospels. All Protestant churches are evangelical. But I go to a liberal United Methodist church. I am no fundy.

It is true that Robertson disrespects mainstream Protestant churches. I have read the quotes. I know as well that many fundies like Robertson think Catholics are not true Christians. I know that many of these fundies think that they have the right to decide which of us are going to burn in hell. Maybe your critics tonight think that is self-evident.

Maybe some of the people here are angry with you because the Pope died today, and they don't want to see any threads like this.

I don't think you are doing anything wrong. I see many others here, Christian and otherwise, criticize the fundies. Take a step back and find something else to do for awhile if DU is getting too crazy for you.

[EBK]

26. I hear ya, but...

what you have stated is pretty extreme.

Extremism of ANY kind is not good.
Even too much sunshine will burn you.


as a side note: My girlfriend works with a "born again" and when she told her that the Pope had died she replied " oh, I`m not Catholic"

So I see what you mean.

[Neshanic]

27. Time will tell how extreme I am. Read last Sunday's NYT....

Sunday section on the new "Radiant" church. Not pretty.

[Hardrada]

44. I was on the phone with a fundie one time

and I mentioned the Blessed Virgin Mary and she didn't know what I was talking about, like that phrase was in Japanese or something.

[Jilly Beans]

31. Are you not aware that Protestants and Catholics ARE born-again Christians

If you are talking only about Evangelical, you are STILL talking about Protestant. Jeesh. IF you're going to post something so inflammatory, at least get your facts straight.

[Neshanic]

35. Ok, follow me on this one

You can have a "Born Again" experience if you are any denomination of any Protestant or a Catholic.

Once you are "Born Again" it DEPENDS on the rabidness of the congregation or the denomination to have you adhear to the stringent and narrow belief that is the companion of accepting Christ as your saviour.

For example, a very liberal Lutheran could have a "Born Again" experience, but not have their feet held to the fire for not believing the companion BA requirement that the Bible is absolute truth.

This is usually not the case in say...a Baptist Church.

"Born Agains" tend to go over to non-denominational/pure Fundamentalist churches because of peer pressure to be in a pure environment.

There is no such thing as a "Born Again Catholic", only ex-Catholics who are "Born Agains". Ask any "BA". They will tell you.

[Blue_In_AK]

36. "Born again" are the two most misused words

in the New Testament.

[Neshanic]

37. Agreed. But that's what they call themselves, and

that's the gold standard for them.

[Blue_In_AK]

39. I know. It's just irritating... n/t

[greblc]

42. Is it the Church or the Parishoners?

I've read that some Church leaders pander to the majority of their congragations. They wont challenge the hypocracy of the flock for fear of driving them away. The Nut Jobs then bully the rest of the people who go to church out of habit into going along for the ride.

Why else would there be a Christian Group called "GOD hates Fags."
This Group travels around and protests Churches who accept GL&T lifestyles. The Christian Right turns my stomach. They are indefensable and I wouldn't share a pew with them.

[et in Arcadia ego...]

43. I'm an un-born again. If it ain't broke, it don't need fixin'.

:woohoo: