What Jesus said about public prayer

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

Mathew 6:5-6

5
"When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.
6
But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you."


I have prayed publicly on DU (on election day), but since the disgraceful display at Terri Schiavo's Hospice I will heed the Gospel and keep it between God and myself.

[jpgray]

1. I love how Jesus' words always prove to be opposed to the fundamentalists

And why not? If a fundamentalist were tempted by the devil in the way Jesus was, they'd go for all three. If Jesus came back, they'd kill him again.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

3. You got that right

[jpgray]

5. As Lenny Bruce said

He'd go through Spanish Harlem on the way to the cathedral, and wonder why six Ecuadorians were living in a single room while the bishop has a ring on worth three grand.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

12. That's why I gravitate towards the Franciscans and other

mendicant orders - the vow of poverty which the Vatican and Diocesan Clergy do not make.

[Dharma_Bum]

46. Beautiful man!

Jesus was a simple Carpenter!

Very Poetic ... very humble ... very Kerouacian!

I Love it!

[FreedomAngel82]

2. Yes

Yep. With me my religious beliefs are between me and my God. Not me and anybody else except when I go to church to worship and meet with other's who share my beliefs. Otherwise I've always felt uncomfortable about praying in public etc. :shrug: I can't stand how people have brought religion into politics. It shouldn't matter what someone's personal and private beliefs are. It should be about the job they do as a politician and nothing else.

[Zynx]

4. The fundies are the antithesis of everything Jesus stood for.

Ironic, isn't it?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

7. He also spoke of the Rich man, the Camel and the needle's eye

hmmmmm

[Wat_Tyler]

11. I had heard that the Eye of the Needle was a low gate in Jerusalem

- it was not so much that it was impossible for the rich man to do it, but that he had to stoop to do so. They don't stoop any more.

[AntiCoup2K4]

25. Actually, it was the CAMEL that had to go through the eye, not a rich man.

The reference of the "eye" being a low gate is correct, but it's the camels who had the problem getting through the gate, not the rich guys themselves. Metaphorically, Jesus was referring to a rich man refusing to humble himself. The context of the phrase is that a rich man asked Jesus what he needed to do to become one of JC's disciples.

Jesus point blanked him "Sell everything you own, and give the money to the poor". But the rich guy loved his material posessions more than he loved God. So he refused to humble himself, or to stoop, as you put it.

The modern day pharisees would just tear down the wall and build a new gate for rich guy's camels. Or Hummers, as the case may be.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

27. Ha! Awesome!

"The modern day pharisees would just tear down the wall and build a new gate for rich guy's camels. Or Hummers, as the case may be."

They would indeed!

:thumbsup:

[Wat_Tyler]

30. That sounds better.

I was thinking of a rich man on a camel's back, but I did rather garble the whole thing - thanks for bringing some clarity to it.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

14. And that if we mess with the poor, weak, and vulnerable, we mess with HIM

Them's fighting words if you ask me.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

18. Damn straight!

[FreedomAngel82]

13. It is

Whenever I read that story or my preacher has a lesson dealing with it I'm always reminded of the fundies. :eyes:

[jojo54]

6. I agree with everything said here so far

Maybe the fundies should go back and read the bible again. Seems they really DON'T know what they're talking about!

[coloradodem2005]

8. Really.

Entirely agree. Those conservatives could learn a lot from the man they claim to worship.

[Wat_Tyler]

9. You CSTT, are a great example of what a Progressive Christian is.

As someone who belongs to a party that was in part created by the Christian Left, that is a part of a larger Labour movement strongly influenced by the Social Gospel and Christian Socialism, I'm very glad to have people like you on the team.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

15. Why thank you. Dorothy Day is one of my all time heroes.

I subscribe to the Catholic Worker - it's worth a read by non-believers as well.

As I've said many times - it's my Christianity that makes me a Liberal!

[Wat_Tyler]

17. You know the saying about the creation of the British Labour Party, right?

It owed more to Methodism than Marx.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

24. I didn't know that.

Interesting.

[aquart]

36. When I was very young

An old Polish farmer was interviewed on TV thru an interpreter:

He was in America on a vacation paid for by the Jews whose lives he had saved during the war by hiding them in his cellar. The interpreter asked him why he had risked his life for strangers? His answer?

"I had to. I'm a Catholic."

That has been my standard for the truly religious ever since.

[Norquist Nemesis]

10. That's how I do it

I don't need a building. I don't need a gathering of like-minded people. I don't need a man (or woman) standing in front of the faithful flock imposing his/her interpretations of what the Lord says we should do, think, believe...

I've been through watching a church be overtaken by 'leaders' who take good Christians and morph them into something that is a cult. Then, when it got too hot, he took off to Florida (surprise, surprise!) and started his own church.

http://www.watchman.org/cults/mckeanresigns.htm

I hear he's come back to his roots though...Missouri, IIRC.

(edit to add part about the church I was baptized in and belonged to:)
"McKean and Roger Lamb had both been fired from their jobs as campus ministers in Charleston, Ill., by their sponsoring church, the Memorial Church of Christ of Houston, Tex., in April 1977. This happened at a time when the media began reporting mounting evidence of cultic practices and emotional manipulation by the movement. From Charleston, McKean moved to the Lexington, Mass., and using the discipling methods, the church expanded rapidly" (Cult Awareness Network News, May 1989, p. 7).

http://www.watchman.org/profile/bostnpro.htm

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

23. There is a school of spiritual thought that every action of life

can be a private prayer. I like that.

[merh]

40. They will know we are christians by our lives, by our love.

1 Corinthians 13

Love

1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not selfseeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2013;&version=31;

[RandomKoolzip]

16. He also said:

Life always kicks you hard in the stomach;
Especially if you are with child.
All honest effort dead-ends in despair.
Your bicycle is stolen.
And you are apprehended attempting to steal another.
The gods are weak.
Man is weaker.
Ho! Ho!


No wait...that wasn't Jesus, that was Michael O'Donoghue. Whoops!

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

20. Blessed are the knuckleheads for they shall be silly.

[arwalden]

19. I've Seen Some Pretty Disgraceful Displays Around DU...

... and I often wonder if people who do such things are sincere, or if they are just trying to get attention for themselves. One would think that a silent (or spoken) prayer would be enough... I fail to understand the purpose of a prayer that's made in a forum. Does God surf DU?

Thanks for the verses, Josh... I had always thought that there was something like that mentioned in the Bible, but wasn't sure exactly WHERE they were located.

- Allen

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

22. Allen, there's also this gem:

Also from Mathew 6 (The whole chapter is great)

1 "(But) take care not to perform righteous deeds in order that people may see them; otherwise, you will have no recompense from your heavenly Father.
2
When you give alms, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites 2 do in the synagogues and in the streets to win the praise of others. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward."

[rkc3]

26. It's been a while since my Catholic school days, so some help

would be appreciated.

Where are the verses in the Bible that pertain to the rich man at the front of the church saying how blessed he is while the poor man is in the last pew begging for God to make him worthy.

If I weren't so lazy, I'd look it up and slap some fundies with it from time to time.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

29. I know what you're talking about but it obviously wasn't a

Church as churches are a Christian thing. I'll get back to you.

[arwalden]

34. I Remember A Sunday School (Or Vacation Bible School) Lesson About That...

... we were all gathered around in a semi circle as we listened to one of the church-ladies tell us a story about a rich man who made grand public displays at how much he donated... and how he felt he was so much BETTER than the little old lady who only gave a shekel. Yet, her pittance was EVERYTHING she had.

Later on, we all got to color in a picture from the story. (And do macaroni and colored-popcorn mosaics.)

[tigereye]

48. I thnk that was the widow's mite

[Susang]

21. Amen

n/t

[Kellanved]

28. I could not agree more

Thank you for your post. It is a good verse, forgotten far too often.

I have problems respecting people whi try to win moral superiority by staged displays of "faith".

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

31. A staged display of faith is just that.

[Zynx]

32. I maintain the very public displays are signs of fear.

The fundies are very close to losing faith entirely in many cases because they need to believe all of these strange pre-requisites in order to believe in God. That's why so many fundamentalists become atheists/agnostics. Fanaticism is never healthy. There is always a happy medium.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

44. Hmm could be

[terrya]

33. Thank you, CStT.

Important words to remember.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

35. My pleasure T

[asthmaticeog]

37. That applies to SO much

even for an atheist like myself. I feel much the same way not only about overtly displayed religious devotion, but to conspicuous displays of altruism, virtue and political righteousness as well. I suspect that the idea in your passage from Matthew is adapted from the ancient Hebrews' tenet that the highest form of charity is when the giver is completely anonymous.

Great post, Chavez.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

41. It is also very similar to many Hindu and Buddhist sayings

It is a universal truth.

You're welcome weirdly named dude.

[Lone Pawn]

38. But who ever said fundamentalists were fundamentalist *Christians?*

Usuallly they're fundamentalist Republicans or fundamentalist pro-lifers. Nothing about Jesus there.

By the way, I certainly agree with your point, and made one very similar to it recently.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3371881

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

43. Nice

:thumbsup:

[Alizaryn]

39. That passage and the "Judge not" passage both define

my understanding of religion and separate it from what I see as the "Evangelist/Conservative" view.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

45. Me too

me too

[byronius]

42. Even the words of Abbie Hoffman could be used...

...to suggest that the wealthy should dominate the poor, if you looked hard enough, thought hard enough, and had no heart or soul to speak of.

Did you know that FDR hated Social Security? I didn't!

[Dharma_Bum]

47. Fantastic Again!

:thumbsup: