Tom DeLay doesn't want to talk about pulling the plug on his own daddy

[NNN0LHI]

DeLay Agreed With Withholding Special Treatment for His Injured Father


http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB02JH1U6E.html

LOS ANGELES (AP) - House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, who has helped lead a congressional effort to keep Terri Schiavo alive, joined members of his own family nearly 17 years ago in allowing doctors not to take extraordinary measures to extend his father's life, a newspaper reported Sunday.

DeLay had just been re-elected to his third term in Congress in 1988 when his father, Charles DeLay, was severely injured in an accident. As the elder DeLay's vital organs began failing, the family chose not to connect him to a dialysis machine or take other measures to prolong his life, the Los Angeles Times reported Sunday, citing court documents, medical records and interviews with family members.

"There was no point to even really talking about it," Maxine DeLay, the congressman's 81-year-old mother, told the Times. "Tom knew, we all knew, his father wouldn't have wanted to live that way."

"Tom went along" with the family's decision, she said. snip

The congressman declined to be interviewed about his father's case, but a press aide said it was "entirely different than Terri Schiavo's."

more

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. I like the spokesman's comment. There's one law for Tom, one for Terri

and one for everybody else. That's why.

[cthrumatrix]

18. just like when it comes to the law for Delay....hypocrite

[bbernardini]

2. Yes, entirely different!

For one thing, his dad was a male.

:)

[NNN0LHI]

5. Sounds like DeLays daddy was in better shape than Mrs. Schiavo

That is the difference.

Don

[Inland]

3. So is Congress going to vote on whether it's "entirely different"?

I mean, it is up to Congress, right?

[Career Prole]

4. "entirely different than Terri Schiavo's (case)"

In that the bugman couldn't make political hay from it?
Shee-it bugman, the hay you got from Terri's case soured in the barn on ya!
:evilgrin:

[eleny]

6. Geraldo mentioned it tonight

So at least it's gotten some air time. It happened and his sycophants have to live with his lying, hypocritical ass.

[NNN0LHI]

8. Wonder why that whore didn't mention it a week ago?

I am sure he knew about it then.

Don

[spanone]

7. One wonders how a 'Tom DeLay' continues to slither along

in the political world. He doesn't hide his evil, he relishes it.

[elperromagico]

9. He only has to keep winning in his home district.

Not particularly hard to do in Texas - unless you're a Democrat.

[NNN0LHI]

10. kick

[bettyellen]

11. entirely different? well let ME be the judge of that!

[Catfight]

46. I agree...let the public judge that!

[candle_bright]

12. I don't think this is the same

as Terri Schiavo's case. This article says DeLay's father's organs were failing. Schiavo's organs were NOT failing. I'm not trying to start a fight here, but this is how my father died. We never removed the feeding and hydration, though.

Choosing not to dialyse someone means not prolonging their life (at least in my father's case) by a possibly only a few weeks; it wont save someone with failed vital organs. On the other hand, with Schiavo, she wouldn't be dying anytime soon if the feeding tube was still connected from what I've read.

Now, if someone could show DeLay pulled the feeding tube, that would be another story, but it wouldn't change the fact that the condition of the vital organs is different in both cases. Anyone have info on that?

[NNN0LHI]

13. I call bullshit on that. People can live a long time on kidney dialysis

I personally know people who have been on kidney dialysis for decades. And they can do kidney transplants too. Culture of life my ass.

Don

[candle_bright]

15. Correct

But they can't live with failed livers, or other organs that have shut down.

Notice the plural "organs" not "organ." If it was only his kidneys, dialysis would work.

By the way, I resent you calling what I wrote "bullshit." This is my personal experience with my father's death. It is also not unique. You can't live with most of your organs failed either.

[NNN0LHI]

16. But you are only surmising that his liver failed

I resent you defending Tom DeLay. But carry on doing so if you wish. It is duly noted.

Don

[candle_bright]

17. Look

The article says "organs," does it not? I have no idea which other organs these might be, but it does show that the organ failure was not restricted to his kidneys only.

It's interesting that you would characterize my posts as "defending Tom DeLay." I was simply trying to be accurate here. If you don't care, then by all means carry on distorting the issue regardless of the veracity of your arguments. It is duly noted.

[NNN0LHI]

19. Listen

If you wish to keep guessing which organs of Daddy DeLay were shutting down be my guest. Don't let me stop you.

But if Tom DeLay actually wants us to know the truth he could just say so. But he don't want to talk about it. Which just opens the door for people like you to use their own active imaginations to figure out these things. So go ahead doctor. See, ya.

Don

[candle_bright]

23. Okay

The article says "vital organs." It doesn't take too much guessing to narrow that down.

You are doing quite a bit of assuming of your own. You are accusing him of hypocrisy without all of the facts, the same facts you are saying I do not have. If you re-read my first post, I specifically asked if anyone knew if he had pulled the feeding tube. Do you know? I don't. If he DID this would an area to focus on, in terms of being hypocritical. That is all I intended. Otherwise, it's apples and oranges.

There is no way with over 60,000 DUers that I am the only one who has dealt with a loved one having failure of vital organs. I guess I'm the only one posting in this thread, though.

[NNN0LHI]

24. Oh, you don't KNOW if Daddy DeLay was on a feeding tube?

Yea, sure you don't know. He could very well have been sitting up eating a cheeseburger and fries when they pulled his plug.

:crazy:

Don

[candle_bright]

25. That's not what I asked.

I asked if anyone knows if DeLay *PULLED* a feeding tube.

Do you know? If the answer is YES, then that's what we should focus on.

[NNN0LHI]

26. I see. I am sure left his feeding tube in and pulled everything else out

They even buried him with it still in. Wouldn't want him getting hungry. Right?

Don

[candle_bright]

27. That is entirely possible.

Except your sarcastic comment about being buried with it.

I am basing my comments on first-hand experience and the info in the article you posted. Choosing not to hook someone up to dialysis is not *unplugging* anything if it was never hooked up in the first place.

Sheesh.

[NNN0LHI]

29. Did you read the article?

>>>His father was on a ventilator and other machines to sustain him," said DeLay spokesman Dan Allen.<<<

Obviously not. You make all these statements about what might have been without even reading the article. Hmmm.

Don

[candle_bright]

31. You're right.

I did miss that part. I'm honest enough to admit it.

If his father wasn't already in the process of dying, DeLay is a hypocrite. Failure of vital organs IS the dying process, however. Hopefully more information will be revealed and developed.

Do you know if he pulled the feeding tube? You haven't answered that, so my guess is you don't know and/or are avoiding the question.

[mondo joe]

32. And failure of the BRAIN is the dying process as well.

Terri Schiavo has had her death interrupted and stretched out for 15 years, with no hope of reversal.

But the real issue is that this is a personal decision to be made based on the individual's choice.

[Catherine Vincent]

55. Yes, Delay is a hypocrite.

Regarding pulling the feeding tube, I don't think anyone is allowed to do that unless you're a physician.

[MattBaggins]

64. You might correct in your assesment of Delay's father's condition

But we need a congressional investigation into the facts of the case. Only congress can determine whether Delay's father could have been saved from dying. We must err on the side of life, and need to exhume the corpse in order to be certain if pulling the plug was the correct course of action. We have to pass a law preventing other people from poisoning their fathers to death.

I have spoken with a Mensa nominated, Advanced Placement Pre-Med High School Senior who believes that Delay's father was mis-diagnosed and that a liver transplant would have allowed kidney dialysis to have saved his life. We must demand the Media and Congress look into this.

[cthrumatrix]

14. "the sanctity of life" is the issue....

life that affects him.

very odd

[mondo joe]

21. "if we kept doing THIS that body would stay around longer"

It is the same thing - there is no difference between the two artificial treatments.

But the issue is WHO decides who has treatment stopped - your next of kin or Tom DeLay.

[gollygee]

30. See, he's completely consistant

In each case Tom DeLay gets to decide.

[Lindacooks]

54. LOL!! Good, good point!!

Thanks for the laugh!

[bettyellen]

57. in both cases, mr delay would lke to make the decision, and then run off

and shirk responsibility whe someone calls
BULLSHIT!

[KharmaTrain]

34. Both Cases The Outcome Was The Same

Unlike what wingnuts think, people aren't pulled out of life support for "convenience". It's done when a doctor or specialist with knowledge of the case and the injury/illness sees there's no other hope and then the family is notified. In most states you can't execute a DNR without one or several board certified doctors to sign off on this. The ultimate decision is then left up to the family.

Feeding tube, dialysis, ventilator, heart/lung machine...these are all devices that are meant to support life in one for or another (thus the classification) and i see no difference...since without them the person would suffer worse problems and die. If left in the natural state (and isn't this what many fundies hypocritically refer to)...DeLay's father would have died as would have Terri Schaivo would have anyone with a failing system that is shutting down...the major reason life support is called for in the first place.

Different, my ass...the decision is the same in both cases...do you use extraordinary means to keep a life going...even with no hope of any improvement, or do you respect the quality of life and help that person end their suffering and to do so in the most comfort avaialble. I strongly suggest to look at it from that perspective, cause that's what I based my decisions when I was in a similar circumstance.

[rocktivity]

56. Terri's organs were not failing because she was on life support

His father very well have been able to remain alive, albeit hook up to organ supporting machinery. But DeLay's family instinctively "knew" that that wasn't what his father would have "wanted," though they didn't have it in writing and there's no indication that his father discussed the matter. Yet what Michael Schiavo is doing is "different?"

:shrug:
rocknation

[onenote]

20. Why Delay is a hypocrite

If you read the story, the rationale given for discontinuing treatment was that "There was no chance he was ever coming back" not that his death, even with continuing "heroic measures, was imminent. That's why Delay is a hypocrite -- because Terri's not coming back either. Now Tom Not So Swift may believe in miracles (that sexy thing), but apparently not for his own father.

onenote

[Left Is Write]

28. That, and the fact that DeLay espouses "erring on the side of life"

in the absence of a Living Will. There was no Living Will in his father's case.

[napi21]

22. I don't think the subject is the condition of each patient...

I think it's WILL we follow the wishes of the PATIENT! I did hear the spokesman for DeLay say Mrs DeLay said she knew her husband would never want to live on life support if there was no hope of recovery. That's the same statement made by Michael Schiavo.

I changed my living will, in the last week, to state "NO RESUSCITATION"! I now believe if you never put anything in, NOBODY has to decide to pull it out!

[seventythree]

49. are you sure?

if you are taken into a hospital for a heart attack, or an impending one, do you not want to be resuscitated, even though you could have a long and productive life after a heart attack? We had this discussion over Easter dinner -- there is a difference between a DNR and a living will/end life directive. I caution everyone to be cautious with what they are doing regarding same -- think of all the possibilities, first. Mine basically says -- no life support when death in imminent or there is no hope of a meaningful recovery -- I want the paddles if I have the possibility for a full recovery.

[vickie]

33. What abject filth this man is!!!

[Undercover Owl]

62. if there is a hell...

it has a special place for DeLay.

[AlinPA]

35. Most of these holier-than-thou people are hypocrites.

[DemonFighterLives]

36. This was just covered on MSNBC

Norah O'Donnell reported on the delay/hypocrisy.
They showed a tram, that looked like a boat lift. He fell off the motorized tram and got pretty banged up according to one fellow.
He would have been in a vegetative state if kept alive.

I don't know the order of vital organs shutting down, but if no extra care is given, they will shut down. On Tom not wanting to talk: Different case, dad was in a coma.

Perhaps Tom was counting on his inheritance and therefore was agreeable to "cut him off".

[Spazito]

38. Or, if his father died, he and his family would receive more

from their legal suit they lodged against the company than they would if he remained 'alive' in a vegetative state?

I would not ordinarily attribute such crass motives to any family but Tom Delay has proven how craven he is in so many prior actions I would believe anything is possible with him, ANYTHING.

[DemonFighterLives]

40. I would never mention the inheritance

Except that this regime's followers do seem capable of anything. As long as there is a benefit, its all good.

[me b zola]

59. I believe that his monetary gain from his fathers death is relevant

..Simply because Delay's "base" that he his pandering to have accused Mr. Schiavo of "wanting to kill Terry for insurance money"...at least of course until it was shown how he turned down millions in order to carry out the last wish of his wife. Let Delay now stand up to the same scrutiny that he & his wacky "base" have forced upon Mr. Schiavo.

[NNN0LHI]

61. Hell yea, its relevant n/t

[kath]

37. And is Terri Schiavo's dad willing to talk about pulling the plug on his

mother? Just wondering...

[samplegirl]

39. Neither does Newt

which we all know what he would of done. Left his first wife
while she was dying of cancer to boink his second wife and left
her as well when diagnosed with some form of M.S.

[hinachan]

41. Well, it IS different

I loathe DeLay, but I've got to hold my nose and be fair here....

"As the elder DeLay's vital organs began failing" - Terri's vital organs didn't fail.

"the family chose not to connect him to a dialysis machine" - She didn't have a problem with her kidneys, until her feeding tube was removed.

There's a big difference between unplugging a respirator and cutting off a feeding tube. The patient dies fairly quickly without a respirator.

Also, there's nothing said here about the patient being given morphine, as is being done with Terri. Doctors only prescribe morphine to people WHO ARE CAPABLE OF FEELING PAIN. Furthermore, the only way a doctor/nurse would know the patient is in pain is IF THE PATIENT VERBALIZES, OR ACTS AS IF HE/SHE IS IN PAIN. This, alone, is proof that Michael's claim of Terri not being able to feel or express anything is a flat-out lie. (Even if she's only grunting and writhing, she's still in pain, and still expressing it.) Morphine is a controlled substance, only given to people experiencing intense pain, so this isn't something a doctor would prescribe without good reason.

Finally, there's no one in the DeLay family who contested the claim that the patient wished to die. Everyone unanimously knew the patient's wishes, and carried them out accordingly.

So, for once in his life, DeLay is telling the truth...there is a big difference between his case and Terri's.

We should be asking ourselves a more important question: Why is it that convicted murderers get a painless death by lethal injection, while an ordinary woman who never committed a crime has to suffer the agony of dehydration (requiring morphine, folks -- NEVER forget that!). And a doctor (Kevorkian) who wishes to spare people such agony is put behind bars.

[mondo joe]

42. Terri's organs didn't fail? Oh that inconsequential old brain.

The difference between cutting off a respirator or feed tube is soley one of duration.

Medically, legally and (I would say) ethically they are no different.

On another point, hospice patients do get morphine AS A PRECAUTION and as a way to soothe their families moreso than the actual patients.

[seventythree]

51. exactly

legally, medical intervention is medical intervention -- feeding tube or respirator, so sayeth the US Supreme Court.

[NNN0LHI]

45. So if you had a love one who you knew wanted to die...

...because they were suffering in unbearable pain and the doctors gave you one of only two choices to end that pain. One of those choices would be for the hospital to withhold food and water until they expired. And the other choice would be for you to hold a pillow over your loved ones face until they died from suffocation. Are saying that you would hold that pillow to their face?

I am real curious to see what your answer to this question is.

Don

[NNN0LHI]

63. Insert the sound of chirping crickets in this space n/t

[MattBaggins]

65. Could you please link to some reference

to support your claim that morphine is only given to people who can verbalize that they are in pain?

[tjdee]

43. They didn't even wait fifteen years?

They are two separate cases, but the fact remains that Michael Schiavo is her next of kin and that he has waited fifteen years to come to a conclusion that the Delays reached apparently much quicker than that-- his loved one is not 'coming back'.

The next of kin gets to decide things in this country. And that's the way it is.

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. But all of us who are not brain dead know

that DeLay's involvement in the Schiavo case has nothing to do with wanting to save Terri's life.

It is all about creating a diversion from his impending indictment for fraud.

[ComerPerro]

47. Who cares if his father didn't want to live that way

Tom is a murderer and a sleazy opportunist for pulling the plug on his father. He just doesn't value life at all, and must have very little faith in both medicine and God to think that there was no hope.

Maybe you think I am being unfair to DeLay, but I am just judging him by his standards.

[Andy_Stephenson]

48. Why???

Is it to painful, or, does it conflict with his current position?

News flash...Tom DeLay buys the entire stock of Flip Flop's from the Dollar General Store.

[Mr_Spock]

50. DeLay should be repeatedly billy-club butt-raped until...

well, we'll know when it's time to stop :D

[dzika]

52. Videos - DeLay removes life support from father

Video - CNN: Delay removes life support from his father - 3/28

Video in Real Media format (1 minute)

Video - MSNBC: Delay's decision to let his father die - 3/28

Video in Real Media format (3 minutes)

[rocktivity]

53. DeLay officially SPEARHEADED, not "helped," the "congressional effort"

but had to beat a hasty retreat when his speech saying that God had sent Terri to the GOP as a weapon against the liberals was released. His pulling the plug on his father was actually the icing on the cake. This is just his way of deflecting accountability (suprise, surprise).

But HOW was his situation different--in that DeLay's family all agreed that his father wouldn't want to be kept alive aritificially? Well, they didn't have it in writing, and there's no indication that DeLay's father left instructions. What, then, makes Michael Schiavo less capable of knowing his wife's wishes than the GOP is?

:headbang:
rocknation

[NNN0LHI]

58. MSNBC has been covering the hell out of this. Nothing on CNN though n/t

[BuyingThyme]

60. Please respect Tommy's privacy!!!

It's not like he....ummm....nevermind.