A peek inside the PETA building

[Karmadillo]

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=84143&ran=196910

<edit>

PETA has a distinct and non-negotiable philosophy that drives its mission:

“Animals are not ours to eat, wear, experiment on or use for entertainment.” To some workers, it is that factor that provides the passion, energy and commitment that pumps through the veins of the organization, and makes it a unique place to earn a living.

The creative product may be wild, but there’s an aura of peace at the Front Street office, accented by tinkling fountains and flourishing plant life.

<edit>

“Above all, you have to be kind – and that means to each other,” said Newkirk, who founded the organization in 1980. “And you have to be moved by the plight of animals. But this isn’t a commune. You can’t come just because you like animals.”

PETA team members work for less money than they might make elsewhere, either in the nonprofit or for-profit sectors. About 86 percent of the organization’s $25.5 million in operating expenses went directly to its programs in fiscal year 2004, according to the organization’s financial statements.

More than half of PETA’s employees make less than $28,000 a year. Newkirk sets the tone by collecting a salary of $31,385 a year. The rest make a wage comparable to or more than the boss, with 15 percent earning more than $39,500.

more...

[givemebackmycountry]

1. OK...if your cable company offers "Showtime" on demand service...

Than you need to go and watch "Penn and Tellers Bullshit"

See if they have the episode where they skewer PETA.

It's freaking' hysterical!

[BamaLefty]

2. PETA People Drive Me Crazy

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

I'm not a vegan or anything. But ya know, I don't think there should be anything innately cruel about the killing of our food. But I do think it's our food.....I'm sorry but yes when I see a cow I do think two things 1) Milk 2) Burger well make that three...sometimes I think steak.

But like I said, it shouldn't be cruel at all. Just ya know...whatever is easy and fast for them. But I do eat meat....at one time I didn't and then I realized that 1) I love burgers and steaks and 2) I really do think that the cows don't mind.

In the words of Maddox - For every animal a Peta Follower does not eat, I will eat 3.

[livinginphotographs]

36. God forbid someone try to point out the cruelty in an industry you support

"But ya know, I don't think there should be anything innately cruel about the killing of our food"

Every steak you eat that came from a factory farm was brutally slaughtered. So while you don't support cruelty, you support cruelty. Um, okay....

And your opinion that the cows "don't mind" has been disproven by science. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1502933,00.html

But since you seem to think we have some divine right to enslave animals, I guess facts can't get in the way of your opinion.

[ArkDem]

82. I don't think you would find my scientists that would find your

linked article scientific. Comedic, perhaps.

[livinginphotographs]

87. Watch this, and tell me the cows don't mind.

http://www.petatv.com/downloads/agri_short.zip

Stream here: http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_short

It's a real laugh riot.

[ArkDem]

89. Now I'm hungry.

[livinginphotographs]

90. Cute.

:eyes:

Whatever, tough guy.

[ArkDem]

94. I think you will find that more people in the world are offended

by insurance salesmen than the slaughter of cattle.

[flvegan]

97. Not if they have to witness the slaughterhouse, they're not.

[ArkDem]

99. I can tell you've never had an insurance salesman after you!

[flvegan]

101. I can tell an insurance salesman "no" and close the door.

I'm not offended. Tactics might be vile or unethical, I suppose. Most folks in the insurance business that I know are quite the opposite.

Again, I would suggest that the average person, when faced with the same options, would choose otherwise.

Pursuit by an insurance salesman? or;

Witnessing a cow, still conscious, hanging by his back leg, writhing in pain, having his leg pulled from it's socket due to his weight, his throat slit and subsequently disemboweled and torn piece by piece, before he's dead, in front of them.

[livinginphotographs]

105. Thanks, but don't bother.

It's easy to see the caliber of person we're dealing with here. :eyes:

[ArkDem]

109. I knew it! You haven't had to deal with one!

[livinginphotographs]

103. Your point?

Maybe in Arkansas. :snort:

[livinginphotographs]

107. And you have your own personal scientists?

I'm impressed that you were able to round up the two or three of them in Arkansas that weren't busy fucking their sister.

Sucks when people resort to personal attacks, doesn't it?

[ArkDem]

111. You don't bother me. I think you are FUNNY! Always fun to

have a comedian around! Spreading cheer is what makes the world a better place to live.

[The Stranger]

39. Keep posting. Your personifying the problem.

But ya know . . . Just ya know . . .

Doing a better job for PETA than even PETA could.

[donsu]

68. you don't make sense

your thinking runs in a closed circle.

cows DO mind.

[sarahlee]

110. Guess you missed this...

Two-thirds of world's resources 'used up'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1352623&mesg_id=1352623

Be flippent - but your grandkids or greatgrandkids are going to DIE... You get that?

Social Security privatization, who is president, your credit card debt - none of that is going to matter.

[shrub chipper]

3. Actually, PETA does not even approve of having animals as pets.

They are interested in animal RIGHTS, not animal welfare.

[Karmadillo]

5. PETA disapproves so much it lets employees bring companion animals to work

n/t

[shrub chipper]

6. Look into their long term goals.

[Karmadillo]

9. Here's a PETA FAQ on companion animals.

http://www.peta.org/about/faq-comp.asp

“Does PETA believe that people shouldn’t have pets?”
The earliest fossils that resemble the bones of modern dogs are about 12,000 years old, so we know that humans’ fascination with domesticated wolves began at least that long ago. About 5,000 years ago, Egyptians became the first to tame cats, whom they used to control the rodent population. Since then, the breeding and care of cats and dogs has exploded into a love affair, a sport, and a booming business. This international pastime has created an overpopulation crisis, and as a result, every year, millions of unwanted animals suffer at the hands of abusers, languish in shelters, and are euthanized. Adopting a cat or dog from a shelter and providing a loving home is a small but powerful way to prevent some of this suffering. The most important thing that animal guardians can do is to spay or neuter their animals and avoid buying animals from breeders or pet stores, which contribute to the overpopulation crisis.
Read more about ways to provide rich, interesting lives for your domesticated animal companions.

“If I am able to find homes for all the kittens or puppies, why shouldn’t I allow my cat or dog to have a litter?”
While your intentions may be good, there’s no way of knowing what will happen to the animals once they have been adopted. This year, millions of healthy, wonderful animals will go through the front doors of shelters—and go out the back doors in body bags. Many more will be abandoned on the streets. All this misery and death could be prevented through spaying and neutering (surgical sterilization). Every stray cat and neglected dog came from an animal who had not been spayed or neutered.

PETA works hard to educate the public about the importance of spaying and neutering through pamphlets, billboards, letters to editors, ads, public service announcements, articles, and humane-education programs in schools. We also provide spaying and neutering services for the animal companions of low-income families and elderly people
Read more about the dog and cat overpopulation crisis.

more...

[Skip Intro]

8. would you please back up that assertion

and there's nothing wrong with anmial RIGHTS - they sure as hell have rights.

[shrub chipper]

10. How about this?

"Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about by human manipulation." Ingrid Newkirk, national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), Just Like Us? Harper's, August 1988, p. 50.

"In a perfect world, animals would be free to live their lives to the fullest: raising their young, enjoying their native environments, and following their natural instincts. However, domesticated dogs and cats cannot survive "free" in our concrete jungles, so we must take as good care of them as possible. People with the time, money, love, and patience to make a lifetime commitment to an animal can make an enormous difference by adopting from shelters or rescuing animals from a perilous life on the street. But it is also important to stop manufacturing "pets," thereby perpetuating a class of animals forced to rely on humans to survive." PETA pamphlet, Companion Animals: Pets or Prisoners?

"Let us allow the dog to disappear from our brick and concrete jungles--from our firesides, from the leather nooses and chains by which we enslave it." John Bryant, Fettered Kingdoms: An Examination of A Changing Ethic Washington, DC: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, (PeTA), 1982, p. 15.

"The cat, like the dog, must disappear... We should cut the domestic cat free from our dominance by neutering, neutering, and more neutering, until our pathetic version of the cat ceases to exist." John Bryant, Fettered Kingdoms: An Examination of A Changing Ethic (Washington, DC: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), 1982, p. 15.

"As John Bryant has written in his book Fettered Kingdoms, they are like slaves, even if well-kept slaves." PeTA's Statement on Companion Animals.

"In a perfect world, all other than human animals would be free of human interference, and dogs and cats would be part of the ecological scheme." PeTA's Statement on Companion Animals.

"You don't have to own squirrels and starlings to get enjoyment from them ... One day, we would like an end to pet shops and the breeding of animals. would pursue their natural lives in the wild ... they would have full lives, not wasting at home for someone to come home in the evening and pet them and then sit there and watch TV," Ingrid Newkirk, national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), Chicago Daily Herald, March 1, 1990.

[shrub chipper]

15. Almost forgot this one:

“The bottom line is that people don't have the right to manipulate or to breed dogs and cats ... If people want toys, they should buy inanimate objects. If they want companionship, they should seek it with their own kind," Ingrid Newkirk, founder, president and former national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), Animals, May/June 1993

[smbolisnch]

20. So you are asserting that there are NOT enough unwanted pets?

It's okay that irresponsible breeding take place for profit? :shrug:

[fat free goodness]

48. irresponsible ?

Who said anything about "irresponsible" breeding being a good thing?
I think everyone wishes that bad breeders were nonexistent. They also wish that all mechanics were competent and honest. That all are not is not a reason to eliminate mechanics.
I don’t want to eliminate professional breeders because there are incompetent or careless people who allow their dogs and cats to breed, and thus there are plenty of “unwanted” animals.
An unwanted puppy may make a wonderful pet, or not.
Purebred dogs have specific characteristics, both physical and in personality. A cross may be a good dog for someone, but it’s less predictable what any given puppy will be like.

Irresponsible breeders are even worse than taking potluck with a mixed breed. While purebred animals can “concentrate” traits considered desirable, they can also concentrate undesirable traits. The dregs of the breeders will produce dogs worse than random chance would.

[livinginphotographs]

67. Supporting an ethical breeder still gives rise to unethical ones.

The entire industry needs to be abolished. Not only are there so many cruel breeders, the entire idea of "breeding" a dog or cat is unethical. Purebreds are subject to genetic defects and other health problems to which mixed breeds are not. So by supporting any breeder, you are condemning an animal to a life of health problems and untimely death.

And when there are so many dogs and cats that are unwanted, why bring any more into the world? I have the same problem with someone who decides to have tons and tons of kids.

[ironflange]

30. "Slaves?"

Why is it, then, that my cats always make ME feel like the slave?

[Silverhair]

40. No, they don't have rights.

If you think they do, try to get your cat to take a case to court. Or try to sue for your cat.

A legal right is something that a gov't confers. Your legal rights will vary from state to state and country to country.

[livinginphotographs]

41. It's not a question of whether they do legally, but whether they should.

Legally, for a period, a black person was only considered 3/5 of a person. Just because the law says so doesn't make it right.

[Silverhair]

42. You are confusing morality with legality.

A right is a legal instrument. Sorry, but that is a simple fact, even if even our own Declaration of Independence uses the word otherwise.

It is definately immoral to be cruel to animals. But the fact that it is immoral does not mean that the animal has a right.

[livinginphotographs]

44. And you're missing my point.

PETA and other animal rights organizations are trying to get legal rights granted to animals.

Currently, you're right, animals do not have rights. PETA believes that they should.

Arguing semantics is all you're doing.

[Silverhair]

46. Word have meanings. If we are to communicate we have to use words.

If I say, "Green" and you visualize "Brown" then we have a problem. When you assert that animals HAVE rights, when you actually mean that animals SHOULD HAVE rights you are not communicating your position correctly. Do not fault me if I take you as meaning what you have actually said, instead of what you wanted to say.

[livinginphotographs]

49. I thought I was being pretty clear.

My original post: "It's not a question of whether they do legally, but whether they should."

Do animals have legal rights? No.

Should animals have legal rights? That's the question that PETA wants to discuss.

[Silverhair]

52. Should a mouse have a right not to be eaten by a cat?

How would you manage the rights of one animal against another? Can the family of the deceased mouse sue the cat for wrongful death? Should the cat be tried for murder?

[livinginphotographs]

54. See my sig line (thanks to LeftyMom)

I'm not going to debate the old line about whether a lion should eat a zebra.

As a human with the ability to eat things other than animal products, it is (I believe) my moral obligation not to. Therefore, the mouse has the right not to be tortured and/or killed by me for my own personal gain.

If you want to talk legality, right now, a child who regularly tortures and kills mice just for the hell of it is allowed to run free until they eventually become a very grown-up sociopath. In a society that doesn't particularly value animals (especially the non-cute ones), there is no way to legally intervene to get that child the help he or she needs.

[ProfessorGAC]

83. Governments Don't Confer Rights

I don't completely disagree with your basic premise, but gov't does not confer rights.

The entire Constitution is written to assure that the structure of gov't is such that the gov't can't SUBROGATE rights that already exist. The rights are intrinsic. People, animals, everything. They simply exist as a right.

Gov't can only regulate, to some degree that benefits the greater public interest, rights. They don't bestow any of them upon us.
The Professor

[smbolisnch]

4. Great article. It's interesting to read aout the people at PETA

who work so hard. No doubt this will turn into a flamefest as PETA threads always do. Here is my applause to the people who refuse to bury their heads in the sand and continue to work for animals despite the enormous anti-AR sentiment out there.

[MoonRiver]

16. I don't know why people bother trying to inform those whose minds

are permanently closed (unless and until some serious illness hits them due to animal consumption). Some believe that machismo is measured not by what's between their legs but by the size of their dinner steak.

:boring:

[kokofitz]

18. It's measured by neither.

machismo, like any other mindset is simply a state of mind.

[MoonRiver]

23. Yes, but the mind reflects many misperceptions of reality.

Machismo, like other concepts, is subject to interpretation. As a born and bred Texan I definitely know that ordering steak can be a sad substitute for something much more personal. :D

[kokofitz]

24. You have some malady in texas that doesn't affect anyone else?

I order a steak because I'm hungry.

If compensation were the case, would you advertise shortcomings by ordering a particular meal?

[warrens]

100. I write about PETA from time to time

In general, I admire them even though I may disagree with them sometimes. I'm NEVER going to be a vegan, but on the other hand, they have done remarkable work on making people pay for cruelty.

They've done a brilliant job of pushing their agenda, and forcing companies like McDonald's to change their ways of doing business.

As usual whenever they're brought up, it turns into a flame fest here. They have a right to their beliefs, and the people here who keep insisting they're terrorists of some sort aren't really very credible.

[MoonRiver]

7. I'm veg (not vegan, but I only eat organic dairy), and support PETA

Every year I donate to both PETA and Farm Sanctuary. IMO, the way we treat animals is a reflection of our humanity. If you want to eat animals, at least only eat those that have been raised and slaughtered humanely.

[kokofitz]

11. I'll consider that the next time we have venison

that my husband took during deer season - not.

[MoonRiver]

12. I'm confused about the meaning of your post.

Do you have a problem with PETA supporters? Apologies if I misinterpreted.

[shrub chipper]

14. Yes, I do. No apology necessary.

I think most have good intentions, but don't really understand that PETA would do away with any form of domestic pet or livestock.


"I am not a morose person, but I would rather not be here. I don't have any reverence for life, only for the entities themselves. I would rather see a blank space where I am. This will sound like fruitcake stuff again but at least I wouldn't be harming anything." Ingrid Newkirk, founder, president and former national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), as quoted in Chip Brown, "She's a Portrait of Zealotry in Plastic Shoes," Washington Post, November 13, 1983, p. B10.

"We feel that animals have the same rights as retarded human nchild because they are equal mentally in terms of dependence on others." Alex Pacheco, Director, PETA, New York Times, January 14, 1989.

"Six million people died in concentration camps, but six billion broiler chickens will die this year in slaughterhouses." Ingrid Newkirk, founder, president and former national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, as quoted in Chip Brown, "She's A Portrait of Zealotry in Plastic Shoes," Washington Post, November 13, 1983, p. B10.

[MoonRiver]

19. Animals do have rights, and in an ideal world we wouldn't take them

for pets. But many animals are dependent on humans due to excessive breeding and thereby having no ability to function independently in the wild. Therefore, we are morally obligated to offer them our homes.

I LOVE MY DOG!:loveya:

[kokofitz]

17. I have a problem with PETA in general

I do not condone the abuse of animals in any way.

I condone the use of anumals for food and necessary medical research.

I do not condone the use of animals for cosmetic or other convenience product testing.

I condone the use of animals for labor - draught horses, mules, horses, oxen, etc. used for tilling crops where machinery is not practacable or in the instance of relatively small food plots.

[MoonRiver]

21. OK, well we share many beliefs. I just hope that animals used for

research and food are treated humanely. Is that too much to ask for our fellow sentient beings?

[kokofitz]

22. Not at all. n/t

[Goathead]

26. Labor, are you kidding? Last time I checked

This was the Twenty-first century and we had learned to harness the atom.

[ott]

27. Your ignorance is showing

<<<I do not condone the abuse of animals in any way.

I condone the use of anumals for food ... >>>

Your statements contradict.

And unless you're researching your products, (soaps, shampoos, toothpaste, laundry detergent, cosmetics, etc.) chances are you're condoning the abuse of animals for convenience product testing as well. If you actually care, which I suspect you really don't, the PETA web sites are a great resource in avoiding such products.

[kokofitz]

31. Ignorance? Opinion, maybe.

I don't see the use of animals for food as inhumane so long as the animals are killed as quickly and painlessly as possible - such as my husband does with his 30-06 when hunting deer. I have a huge issue with unnecessary suffering during the process.

If you actually care, which I suspect you really don't, the PETA web sites are a great resource in avoiding such products.

Nice crystal ball ya got there. Trade it in for one that works.

My soaps, shampoo, etc. come from completely animal friendly sources. My household cleaners and detergents come directly from a blender whom I know personally.

Next item: Do I wear leather? You betcha. If you're going to kill an animal for food, use the whole damn thing. We also tan the hides of the deer my husband kills. I scrim the antlers. The offal is left for the local scavengers. Buzzards and possums gotta eat, too. We don't mount heads.

[ott]

33. My apologies

Let me commend you on your vegan lifestyle... (debarring the hunted animals).

[livinginphotographs]

37. The meaning of the post is that she doesn't give a shit.

As long as her needs are satisfied, fuck everyone else.

How very 'murikan of her.

[smbolisnch]

13. Very Creative.

:eyes:

[Goathead]

25. Good point. I've been thinking about that a lot lately

Our humanity is most definitely judged by the way in which we treat those that are incapable of defending themselves.

[Dastard Stepchild]

29. Have you visited the Farm Sanctuary?

We had a great time there. :)
We went on the 4th of July for their picnic/tour. Served up some yummy tofu pups and the best potato chips I've ever nibbled. I should have written down the brand name.

[MoonRiver]

73. I would love to go! I live a long way away,

but someday...

[TX-RAT]

55. Every year I donate to both PETA and Farm Sanctuary

Then you should be happy to know that your money went to a good cause.

The euthanizing of hundred of pets, stored conveniently in a large freezer in PETA's home office. Talk about hypocrites!

The distribution of funds to environmental terrorists. I believe Ive actually seen a video of one of these benefactors ( also a convicted felon ), demonstrating in a class room of college students, the proper methods in making incendiary devices.

What a wonderful bunch.

[dean_dem]

77. Wha????

"The euthanizing of hundred of pets, stored conveniently in a large freezer in PETA's home office. Talk about hypocrites!"

You have something to back that up, or did you just pull it out of your own ass? Wow, all it takes is one Animal Rights thread on DU, and this place starts looking like Free Republic.

[slestak]

78. do you have Showtime?

or a DVD player? Get Penn & Teller's "Bullshit", where they expose PETA. They talk about the carcass freezer, as well as all the criminal bullshit this "wonderful organization" secretly funds.

I am a firm believer in animal welfare, but PETA sucks.

[dean_dem]

79. Um, I worked at PETA...

and there was NO freezer full of dead animals. Really, nail PETA for being crass and over-the-top and opportunistic, but don't just make crap up.

[TX-RAT]

80. Sorry

It was PETA's own paper work that showed the euthanizing of pets, plus a free tour of the freezer didn't help.
It was PETA's own paper work that showed the delivery of money to a fire bombing felon. The video of him teaching students how to make fire bombs was especially interesting.

(but don't just make crap up.)
It wasn't.

[dean_dem]

81. Okay...

PETA does euthanize pets, which is one of my main problems with them. I don't like their attitude that a pet that isn't "owned" by a human doesn't deserve to live either. But sorry, the freezer full of dead animals in their office is total b.s. All their euthanizing is done off-site.

PETA also gives money to lots of environmental charities. They have also given money to Animal activists' legal defense funds. Some of that has in the past gone to defending people claiming to be members of the ALF or ELF. That kind of thing is unavoidable when you give to charities like that, but accusing them of supporting eco-terrorism is like saying you support our troops getting killed in Iraq everytime you fill up your gas tank.

But PETA, as tasteless and ineffective as they can be, has never condoned firebombing McDonalds, releasing minks into the wild, or any of the other half-truth crap I've heard coming out of people's mouths on DU. What was that Mark Twain said about "It's better to keep your mouth shut...?"

[TX-RAT]

86. If theres a problem with the freezer, talk to Penn & Teller

Their the ones that were showing video of the freezer in PETA's main office. Their the ones showing the paper trail of the purchase.

[dean_dem]

88. Um, so the Vegas Magician act are an authority how?

Given P&T's stunts, which are quiet funny I might add, did it ever occur to you that it might be tongue-in-cheek, or just intended to be a joke? I haven't seen the video so I won't assume, but I can tell you that there is no freezer full of dead cats in the PETA building. Jesus, ever heard of health codes, people? Do you honestly think PETA would be able to get a permit for that?

[TX-RAT]

91. I haven't seen the video so I won't assume,?

Paper trails and video are pretty damaging evidence. You choose to believe what you want.



(I can tell you that there is no freezer full of dead cats in the PETA building.)
And who said there was? All thats been said was there is or was ( during their investigation ) a industrial freezer purchased by PETA for the purpose of storing euthanized animals before disposal.

[dean_dem]

92. Who said it? This guy, maybe?

"The euthanizing of hundred of pets, stored conveniently in a large freezer in PETA's home office. Talk about hypocrites!"

Oh wait, that was you! Sound familiar?

And don't attack me for saying I haven't seen the video. Unlike some other people on this board, I don't start debating things that I'm unfamiliar with, in this case the video in question. Some people could follow the example when making assumptions about PETA where they have no idea what they are talking about.

So yeah, you choose to believe what you want too.

[TX-RAT]

93. I didn't say " freezer full of dead cats, you did"

I said
"The euthanizing of hundred of pets, stored conveniently in a large freezer in PETA's home office." Yep and thats exactly what it was used for, that was PETA's own admission.

(Unlike some other people on this board, I don't start debating things that I'm unfamiliar with, in this case the video in question)
Thats exactly what your doing. Watch the video and get back with me, otherwise this is a wasted conversation.

[dean_dem]

95. I'm basing my beliefs of PETA's practices on personal experience...

You're basing them on hearsay, half-truths, and some video you saw which may or may not have been true. I heard John Kerry faked his wounds to get his medals, but that doesn't necessarily make it true either. So don't tell me about a wasted conversation. If you have to make up stuff to justify your own lifestyle I could care less. But I will call bullshit when I hear it.

And you don't need to nitpick about a "freezer full of dead cats," you know what I mean. If you want me to replace it with another animal that's fine, it's your lie. Should I say a freezer full of dead Gerbils instead?

[TX-RAT]

108. Say what you want, believe what you want, I don't care.

[flvegan]

96. Let's clear this up, now.

Penn and Teller, far as I can tell, noted PETA's huge freezer bought in 2002. They SPECULATED that it was to keep the animals PETA commissioned to have euthanized, that being the humane alternative to whatever malady those animals had.

They showed the purchase of this freezer from tax returns, then SPUN it into a place to keep the frozen, dead bodies of puppies and kittens that they kill. And guess what...you bought it. Just like the Bushbots, you bought it. P&T should be working for the rethugs, but they're libertarians and wouldn't stand for it, most likely.

Tell you what. I run a rescue for dogs, mostly. I also bought a fridge last year. I've had 3 animals euthanized due to suffering. Go ahead and accuse me of the same thing.

Yeah, talk about hyprocrites.

[dean_dem]

104. Yeah, facts, schmacts.

How dare you bring facts into this thread! PETA are terrorists, dammit!
:crazy:

[BikeWriter]

76. ...and PeTa supports eco-terrorists.

[livinginphotographs]

84. Did you even read the post above regarding this?

Or are you just doing what you normally do, which is jump into any thread that mentions the P-word with ignorant, BS one-liners?

Wait, don't answer. I already know.

[Dastard Stepchild]

28. That's beyond awesome....

I completely want to work in an office with a massive bunny looming over me. It would bring a little ray of sunshine to my work day.
Ohhh.... and I would get to eat in the cafeteria every day, with the large bunny.
Totally rockz!

[Mean Streets]

32. 5 year Vegan

I've been a vegan for about 5 years now and a PeTA member for the same amount of time. I often struggle with other AR activists because of the overwhelming arrogance that seems to surround the movement. I try to live the best life possible and when people ask me, I can tell them it's because of veganism. Leading by example has proven to be the best way to get people to open up their eyes to the crimes commited against animals.

Most of close friends are omnivores and I don't even think about preaching to them. That being said, I think a vegan, or even a vegetarian is a little bit of a better overall person than someone who eats meat and/or dairy. The same way I feel about liberals/progressives as compared to republicans.

[RiDuvessa]

34. I respect your beliefs.

However, I don't see how being vegan makes you a better person. A healthier person perhaps, but not a better person.

My baby sister is a vegetarian, for the same reasons as you, and she also does not preach to the rest of the family or look down upon them.

I myself try to only buy products that don't test on animals. Also try to buy meat where they treat the livestock humanely. (Easier to do since I live in Sicily right now.)

PETA is actually a decent charity with regards to the amount of money spent on admin costs. When I checked on them in the Combined Federal Campaign book, they are listed as having 12 percent of every dollar go to admin costs. Charity Navigator gives them a three star rating.

I think that PETA actually hurts its cause by taking everything to the extreme. No pets, no meat, no animal testing at all. If you eat meat or wear leather, you are evil. The average person looks at a PETA activist and sees a loon. Partially because of how MSM portrays them, and partially because of their own actions. I think PETA needs a new public relations expert.

[livinginphotographs]

38. Can we please put the no pets BS to rest?

"Employees can bring their companion animals – you’ll be gently corrected if you call them “pets” – to work if they live too far away to care for them during the day.

Staff members can often be seen frolicking with their canines at the organization’s dog park along the river during breaks. Tiger, Ginger and Storm, among other cats, live at PETA and have free roam of the building through a system of flap doors cut into certain rooms, including the ladies bathroom."

How many times does this have to be repeated? PETA does not want to break down your door in the middle of the night and liberate your dogs and cats!

And I don't see anything that unreasonable about "no meat, no animal testing."

[Silverhair]

43. What is wrong with the word, "pets"?

For what it is worth, my cat thinks that we are her pets.

Seriously, I have a special disgust for complicated new terms for things that we already have words for. If a PETA person should ever correct me on that, I would simply look at them and repeat my use of the word "pet".

[livinginphotographs]

45. The word "pet" implies ownership.

I don't "own" my human friends, they are simply my companions. The idea is similar in referring to animals as "companion animals" as opposed to pets.

And you're betraying your real motives (antagonizing those with whom you disagree, as opposed to actually discussing your difference of opinion) by mentioning how you'd make sure to repeat your use of the word pet to someone who is offended by it. That's almost as bad as a white person telling a black person that they refuse to refer to them as "African-American."

[Silverhair]

50. Legally, I DO own the animal.

It may annoy you, but it IS a fact, and one that is extremely unlikely to ever change. I keep my cat because she gives us pleasure.

There is also a bit of a health reason too. Stroking a cat has been shown to lower blood pressure. I have tried it, measuring my BP before and after stroking her, and it usually works.

[livinginphotographs]

51. You're right, legally you do.

Once again, it's a question of "should we" vs. "do we."

[Silverhair]

53. Isn't neutering an animal against it's will a violation of it's "rights"?

I am sure that if my cat had been able to speak, she would have opted for not being neutered and having kittens. By spaying her we stopped her DNA from getting into the next cat generation. Biologically, that is the same as killing her. Evolution is through with her now, and she is just waiting to die.

By promoting neutering you are promoting forcing your vision of what you see as best for the animal upon the animal itself, who would definitely have other ideas.

I am sure my tomcat, (Sadly, lost to an accident.) would have strongly voted to keep his tomcatness intact.

In the wild, animals do not live in lives of contemplative fullness. Most die very young, and violently. Or their numbers expand until they are eating all the available food supply and then they starve.

[livinginphotographs]

56. The problem with overpopulation of cats is the fault of humans.

I don't like putting my cat under the knife at all, but it will prevent further suffering.

And just like a young child is not competent to make their own medical decisions, neither is a cat. I don't claim that a cat is equal in intelligence to a human. All I'm saying is that they have the right to be treated with at least a tiny bit of respect. I'm not sure where spaying or neutering is a violation of that.

[Silverhair]

57. But you are talking about rights,

and reproduction would be a primary right.

I also think you have a false image of the lives of wild animals. It is usually short, violent, and full of suffering. If the population of any species is stable, then only two offspring of a mother will survive to become breeding adults. Depending on the species, that can be a LOT of sub-adult deaths.

[livinginphotographs]

59. I agree with you about the life of a wild animal.

And from your description, it's sounds pretty similar to that of an animal that is to be used for food.

[Silverhair]

61. Close. Except that food animals rarely die of starvation.

Death by starvation is also common in the wild. If predators don't keep the numbers in check, then the herbivores will expand until they destroy their own food supply.

In fact, it was first noticed by a famous historical fur trading company in early Canadian history that the furs that were brought in went in a cycle that was 90 degrees out of phase.
1. Few bobcats, moderate amount of rabbits, rabbits increasing
2. Lots of rabbits, bobcats increasing.
3. Lots of bobcats, rabbits rapidly decreasing
4. Few rabbits, bobcats rapidly decreasing.
5. Few of either, but rabbits starting to increase.

At the end of 3, the bobcats are starving to death. Lots of suffering in the wild. Cats & dogs in the concrete jungle are just in a different kind of wild.

[livinginphotographs]

65. There's lots of suffering in the human world as well.

Should the amount of suffering there is determine how much effort we make to reduce our own participation in that suffering?

[Silverhair]

58. A different question for you.

While you may not admit it, even to yourself, PETA's efforts are futile. Even on a very liberal place like DU, you catch a lot of hostility. At a conservative place like FR you would catch total hostility. Further, PETA's positions are so extreme that the average American looks as you as kooks, and even many DUers do to.

You are not going to be able to get any right for animals, people will still eat meat, and they will still keep pets.

How does it feel to be working for a completely lost cause?

[livinginphotographs]

60. "How does it feel to be working for a completely lost cause?"

Maybe you're not meaning to be insulting, but you're certainly coming off that way.

#1 - I don't work for PETA. I have my own issues with PETA for completely different reasons than most people do, but I still support quite a bit of their work. And most of those "extreme" positions seem to be either taken out of context or just mischaracterizations of PETA's positions.

Hundreds of years ago, slavery was considered normal. Now we look back on it as barbaric. Who are you to say that people will never realize that they don't need to torture an animal, rape the environment, and show a complete disregard for common decency just to get something to eat for dinner?

I don't consider it a lost cause. PETA and various other animal rights/welfare groups have had many victories, however small, over the years.

on edit: one more thing. If my cause is so "lost," then why is this thread constantly being kicked?

[Silverhair]

62. You and I are keeping it kicked.

I am posting because I enjoy needling animal rights activists.

However, it occurs to me that there is a situation in which I might have to support animal rights.

Human intelligent animals? Suppose that in a few decades, a lab brings out cats with vocal cords and human intelligence? Now we have an interesting situation. In fact, that concept could be worth a thread by itself.

[livinginphotographs]

66. Well, if you're looking to needle an animal rights activist,

you'll have to look elsewhere. I am by no means an "activist." I just get tired of PETA being vilified by people who rarely have anything constructive to contribute to the issue.

[flvegan]

69. You tell me the same thing.

I mean , c'mon. Abortion will always be an issue, there will always be "Terri Schiavos", the govt will always be corrupt and the leadership of this nation will always pick and choose what suits them and their interests. The working man/woman will always get kicked in the teeth by big corporations, the poor will stay poor and the rich will stay rich.

How does it feel to be working for a completely lost cause?

I hope you see my point.

[RiDuvessa]

63. You may not.

But the average American does see a problem with being labeled evil because they want to eat meat. PETA would have an easier time convincing people of the issues in corporate America's treatment of animals if they weren't so holier-then-thou.

I for one, think that asking everyone to stop eating meat is unreasonable. It's a part of nature for creatures to kill other creatures for sustenance.

[livinginphotographs]

64. The poor wittle feelings of one who supports a cruel and barbaric industry

are of little concern to me. The hurt feelings someone may have by having the cruelty they support pointed out to them is far better than having your trachea ripped out of your throat while you're still alive, or being vaginally or anally electrocuted to make a coat for someone.

[RiDuvessa]

71. Point proven.

Your post is exactly why PETA will never get the general public on its side.

[livinginphotographs]

72. The public is too lazy to educate itself on the industry it supports.

Have you seen that video that PETA shot? If you'd like, I can send you a link.

[flvegan]

70. Oh, boy.

Creatures that kill other creatures for sustenance are so far removed from even remotely validating what we put food animals through, that your post goes beyond being even laughable.

I don't label anyone who eats meat as evil. It's an evil act if you understand the cruelty behind it, an ignorant act if you don't. PETA isn't holier than thou, it's how they've been framed by those that want to see them that way.

[mongo]

112. Not only that

But PETA is one of the extremist organizations that is trotted out to the American public as what the Democrats or liberals stand for.

PETA makes all of us look bad.

[flvegan]

35. “Above all, you have to be kind – and that means to each other,”

Imagine if every company/workplace had that philosophy.

And yes, I know folks that do work for PETA, and they aren't the nutjobs that most folks around here would LIKE to believe that they are.

Hmmm...look, a charity that actually puts most of it's money into programs (their higher paid employees are their veterinarians, lawyers and accountants, I believe). Imagine that. Down here, we have a couple Bible-thumping organizations whose pastors live in multi-million dollar mansions. Go figure.

[MadHound]

47. While not a vegan or vegetarian, I do support PETA and their works

They are a good counterbalance to corporate policies that are cruel to animals and harmful to humans. If it wasn't for the work of PETA and other animal rights groups, humans would be suffering from corporate practices concerning unneeded animal testing, and slaughtering processes that are lethal to humans.

Like any good counterbalance, their POV is sometimes a bit over the top, however it has to be, since the corporate POV is also over the top. Starting to eviserate an animal before it is even dead needs to be stopped, and when PETA comes in and brings this to our awareness, it serves a needed purpose. Same with forcing KFC and McDs to go away from purchasing factory farmed animals, which is a cruel, and potentially dangerous practice.

Would I agree with a world in which PETA's POV absolutely prevailed? No, but neither do I think leaving the matter of animal rights rest solely in the tender care of corporate hands is a good thing either. There has to be a balance in all things, including our food supply. PETA helps provide that balance, and for that, I applaud them.

[Merope215]

74. That's one of the best posts

I've ever read about PETA from an omnivore. I think more people should be drawing attention to what PETA does to benefit humans by going after corporations that treat animals badly. I support much of PETA's agenda because I happen to agree with it as it relates to the animals, but the fact is that what is better for the animals is usually better for the human consumer, too. The abuse of animals is intimately linked with the abuse of people in the interest of the bottom line, and as long as PETA is keeping CEOs awake at night worrying about another boycott, I think everyone at DU should be applauding its work.

Thanks for bringing up that really important point! :toast:

[flvegan]

75. Excellent, excellent, excellent post!!

Thanks for making those points.

[DemExpat]

85. Yes, over-the-top to try to balance the cruel commodification of

fellow sentient beings.

For this reason I too wholeheartedly support PETA's tenacity and attempt to stay in the spotlight in a society that doesn't want to know, doesn't give a shit.

DemEx

[ArtVandaley]

98. This makes me hungry for a steak

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm

[flvegan]

102. How original. Come up with that by yourself, didya?

Jesus, the creativity.

[livinginphotographs]

106. Not surprising that someone who's idea of humor is "Seinfeld"

would proudly display such a weak attempt at humor.

But I guess middle-school doesn't keep you too busy, does it?