Don't know what to think about Terri

[ck4829]

I think we should support Terri in some way. I believe that she is clearly suffering and needs relief, she also will not recover, but I would like to see a how she is today before I make a decision.

Sometimes I think if we tried to 'save' Terri we could make a lot of progress. We could use it against DeLay, we could also use the polls by saying a majority of people also voted for Bush in the last election, but that's just me.

[tjdee]

1. She doesn't want to be saved....but I'm thinking about euthanasia...

We don't have to save her. Her husband is her legal guardian. It is his decision, acting on what he said she told him--she doesn't want to be alive like this.

I am rethinking euthanasia though.

[Lars39]

2. Read this first.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3344232&mesg_id=3344232

[Trajan]

4. That is a great thread ....

I do have a suggestion though (for her) ... IF she speaks of the primary brian section, the 'cerebral cortex', then the illustration should be clearly marked 'cerebral cortex' .... it instead shows a number of sub-cortex structures, which we can infer are known collectively as the 'cerebral cortex' .... NOWHERE on that artwork is the term 'Cerebral Cortex' ....

Perhaps Im just splitting hairs for ego's sake: but I know it makes people confused to NOT see the same precise nomenclature on the drawing as in that of the discussion ....

A pet peeve of mine ....

Ok ... Im done bitching ....

[KharmaTrain]

5. Let's Say It Again...

From that post for those who don't feel like clicking through...

Heidi writes:

Terri Schiavo has no cerebral cortex. The part of her cerebral cortex that was once functional has been replaced with Cerebrospinal Fluid. CSF has no dendrites, nerve endings, or nerve impulses. Her brain is gone, except for the brain stem.
.

This is what 19 judges (not counting the federal intrusion) determined, sadly, it can't be more specific than that.

Terri feels nothing...she probably hasn't since 1990 and there's nothing to save. These goons are playing emotions and appears some here on DU still haven't realize that...or are trolls.

I wonder where the leadership of the Democratic party is on this issue...there's no voice speaking out, no leadership while the GOOP media machine plays this for all its worth. Another case in point.

[Sugarbleus]

10. People can disagree on what constitutes quality of life AND NOT

be TROLLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :grr:

Remember a little thing called PRO-CHOICE? Freedom of thought, freedom from persecution for one's beliefs???

[KharmaTrain]

12. Emotions Vs. Reality

Re-read my post, I didn't say all who feel this way are trolls, but many are misled by what's being reported or refuse to consider the large amount of medical evidence in this case.

I've been in the situation where I've had to sign DNRs and pull a feeding tube, I suggest you not tangle with me on the concept of quality of life when it comes to dying and how it affects a person unless you've been down a similar road.

Feel free with your thoughts, express them...and I will defend your right to do so. Believe in whatever you want to and I'll stand with you if someone attempts to attack that belief even if I don't agree with the philosophical or religious context.

However, when it comes to the courts and our social system that all must operate under, I keep my beliefs behind the facts and reality and I suggest you do the same. Allow theology to trump reality and this country is in true peril.

Peace

[Sugarbleus]

15. "Tangle with you??" how lovely...

I HAVE BEEN DOWN THAT ROAD!!!! WE are a whole family with multiple disabled persons among our number. I am one of those members. WE WORK AMONG THE DISABLED COMMUNITY.....YEARS now.

We VALUE Life. We care for those in dire circumstances--a friend recently dead from MS and complications of cancer but his wishes were KNOWN and documented. He refused more treatment and we fully understand--he was in his sixites and had lived his life already. Another close friend is stuck in a "nursing home" with aggressive MS..he IS suffering for lack of research/FDA approved meds that might help him to live on. STUCK IN A NURSING HOME MIND YOU!! Wife left and took the kids. NO ONE is looking after him besides our small community of disabled and able bodied individuals who CARE THAT HE WANTS TO LIVE as long as he can. WE are NOT EAGER to OFF people because they can't balance their check books. We are NOT EAGER to off people who have family members WHO WANT THEM.

WE SEEEEEEEEE the LOUSY care disabled and the sickly poor get in way too many hospitals and under the quackery care of disinterested physicians. WE'VE BEEN THERE. WE ARE THERE. I'm sick to fucking death of the Health Police in this party. :grr:

I"m not against a person's right to die with dignity. When there are individuals who have been abandoned by all family and friends; where they've been left to rot in some institution to be raped and abused while in a so-called PVS, I then say let them go peacefully. But I am against a community of people who claim to be "LIBERAL" but could give a rat's ass how the sick and disabled community are viewing this. Who ASSume they know "what's best" for another. How fucking arrogant!!

I am no religious nut, nor do I like the idea of congress getting involved. I'm worried about the stigma "Vegetable", the "language" being bantied about here in DU of all places!! I worry about the disabled community at large. I'm worried about health care for US.

PEACE??????? Stick it where the sun don't shine. Ya wouldn't know a damn thing about Peace (OR forebearance) if it bit you in the ass.

[KharmaTrain]

16. Yes, Peace...Something Needed Here

I had to decide in pulling the feeding tube on my mother three years ago. I'll spare you of the details, but this whole episode has made me relive all the angst I went through during those days.

Obviously you're into flaming games...sorry won't play those here. Just to comment on the non-flaming parts of your post...

The only people who know what's best for an individual is their immediate family and physician. Except in rare occasions, I think the government should stay far away from these issues and spend their time helping the LIVING disabled...something I would hope we both could agree on...as funding to so many of these people have been cut and add that to the growing health care crisis revolving around our aging population and we have far more important issues than one PVS patient involved in a family dispute turned into media circus.

I also am guardian of a mentally handicapped sister and will care for her for the rest of her life. I'm active on the board of the home she lives in and have been around disabled people my entire life...I feel this exposure made me a fuller person as I appreciate how precious what a healthy existance is and marvel at how these people find their own happiness in their own worlds.

Now go ahead and flame and name call and play over-the-top and see how that helps what you cherish most.

Peace

[mondo joe]

19. We assume WHO knows what's best for another?

[Lindacooks]

21. And you can't see the difference between a disabled person

and someone with a flat EEG? She doesn't have a higher brain - she has no comprehension of the world, no ability to feel, think - and the COURTS decided it was HER wish to not be artificially kept alive. Nobody is 'offing' her. Learn the facts before you say anything.

Oh, and don't bother responding to this, because you're on ignore. I don't need your flame bait now, or anytime.

[mondo joe]

17. I kind of thought the point of pro choice was to choose for

ourselves - not others.

[BamaBecky]

11. This is why I have stayed out of this entire saga......n/t

[incapsulated]

3. Oh, boy

This will be a long one, lol.

[Connie_Corleone]

6. It sure will. LOL!

I think I'll just read and enjoy the back and forth from now on.

[Left Is Write]

7. You know what? It's none of our damn business!

It's not our place to "make a decision."

Support for Mrs. Schiavo would include leaving her alone, stopping the media circus, stopping the inappropriate governmental interference, and allowing her to pass with dignity.

[BrklynLiberal]

8. The reason they are DEFINITELY not going to let you see how she

looks today is that you would realize how deteriorated her condition is..and how futile this battle for her "recovery" really is. All they will show you is editted films from four years ago. You can be sure that she is is in much worse shape now than she was then.

[blondeatlast]

9. We do support Mrs. Schiavo...

How can anyone who lacks divine spiritual powers "save" her at this point?

[UTUSN]

13. I'm Sorry, Hope to Be Gentle

Accepting the o.p.'s sincerity, still I'm going to say that the discussion here over the past week has been extensive and exhaustive, so that it is late NOT to know what to think on whatever side.

As for what we should do for Terri SCHIAVO, that would be what we HAVE been doing, standing up for her choice to have a dignified transition.

Our reason for interest in this case fired up when it became POLITICAL, when we noticed the prominence it was getting among our political enemies, when it was being used against some of our core beliefs, this being CIVIL LIBERTIES, CHOICE (both in birth and death), and our legal structure within which these PERSONAL AND FAMILIAL decisions are made.

When the wingnuts performed the all-out assault on democracy over the weekend, THAT was of political interest to us.

Reprising the PARTICULARS OF THE CASE and the PARTICULARS OF HER CONDITION is not the point here. And the attacks on BOTH the parents and the husband are absolutely sickening. Hey---THAT's another way we could help Terri SCHIAVO, by battening down the people who ARE being SCURRILOUS. But just to repeat, now that the husband is SLIMED more and more: He has BEEN UNDER A MICROSCOPE for 7 to 15 years and has NOT been removed as Guardian, which WOULD be done if misconduct towards her were found.

The other fallacious thing being REPEATED ENDLESSLY by the cable yakkers, is that WE DON'T KNOW WHAT SHE WANTED, except for what HE says. This has been DETERMINED by 20 or so COURT FINDINGS. We DO know.

What to think? It's about civil liberties, life decisions that belong to individuals and families WITHOUT government or religious ORGANIZATIONS imposing in authoritarian ways.

[rocktivity]

14. Terri isn't suffering. Her body is.

Terri is not brain damaged but brain dead. There is fluid her where brain used to be, and her brain cannot and will not grow back. She feels nothing, and she does not KNOW that she feels nothing because that part of her died when her brain did. The way to support her is to support her husband's right to put an end to her body's suffering. It is no longer a question of what Terri would have wanted because Terri isn't alive anymore.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Bouncy Ball]

18. Please tell me you are being sarcastic.

How is she "clearly suffering" without any part of her brain that would receive pain signals?

Explain to me how a person missing most of her brain can be "saved?"

[Kinkistyle]

20. In other words you want to politicize her.

Sometimes I think if we tried to 'save' Terri we could make a lot of progress. We could use it against DeLay, we could also use the polls by saying a majority of people also voted for Bush in the last election, but that's just me.

So you want to politicize her and further the indignity in order to get more digs into the repugs? :crazy: