Is it okay to make fun of the Schiavo circus?

[BurtWorm]

[Avalux]

1. I'd say yes to the circus

but no to her. The absurdity of the whole thing begs for it.

[BurtWorm]

3. I probably should have respectfully waited until after the vote was in

to refer to it as a "circus."

:spank:

[deutsey]

5. Right.

The word "tragicomedy" comes to mind.

[jdj]

62. great, now I have that stupid music in my head.

[Just Me]

2. I'm LMAO at the political fallout in spite of the Shiavo tragedy!!!

I CAN'T HELP MYSELF!!!! :bounce:

[FreedomAngel82]

75. And this comes from

the great Bush dynasty. :crazy:

[HockeyMom]

4. The Bug Man, Dr. Frankenstein,

and don't forget, Jeb Clampett too What a cast of characeters. lol

[Liberal Veteran]

6. If you don't laugh at the absurdity of it, you'll end up crying at...

...the sheer stupidity of it.

[FreedomAngel82]

77. You got it

You have to laugh at all the stupid stuff. If these people really had faith in God they should know that even if she was "murdered" she will go to God and the people who "murdered" her would have their justice. Wouldn't you think?

[Walt Starr]

7. Well, look at the clowns in the circus

DeLay
Frist
Bush*
Bush (the smarter)
Rove
The Republican Party
Terry Randall
Alan Keyes
Larry Klayman

and an assorted cast of extreme whavckos, radical clerics, and the religiously insane.

[paineinthearse]

8. Yes, if by "circus" you mean the fundy followers and the media buffoons...

...especially FAUX.

But making fun of TS herself is not cool.

[BurtWorm]

9. What about her parents?

Is it cool to make fun of them (a little)?

[redqueen]

14. I want to say yes... because... well, free speech and all... BUT

I can't help sympathizing with them because they must be in so much pain... so, I would not.

:(

[BurtWorm]

15. I can't help NOT sympathizing with them.

Does that make me a bad person? I sympathize with Michael. I feel somewhat bad for the siblings. I don't know the mother except for the image of her in the video. I think the father--and I say this as a father--is a disgrace. I'm sorry. I don't see a person in pain when I see him. I see someone who is having the time of his life.

[FreedomAngel82]

79. I don't think I've made fun of the parents

I just don't feel any sympathy for them at all. They've brought this on themselves for years and this whole circus too. They could've easily told all these wacko's to go home and leave them in peace, but they didn't. So I don't feel sorry for them but I won't make fun of them. I will make fun of the people trying to bring her water since she'd choke to death (oh the irony).

[deutsey]

18. I haven't been following this all that closely

so I really don't know much about her parents.

My gut tells me, for what it's worth, that making fun of them isn't all that cool. Again, maybe those of you who have followed this more closely could say that they deserve it, but it just seems that they're probably in a lot of anguish right now. I don't see the humor in poking fun of someone going through what they're going through, even if they helped to bring it on themselves.

Point out how they helped bring this on themselves if that's the case, but, I don't know, I just feel that as parents they're in so much pain and confusion right now that I'd be hard pressed to laugh at them.

[BurtWorm]

19. As I was just saying to redqueen:

They don't seem to be in anguish to me. The father in particular has a kind of glee about him.

I'm feeling a lot of anger toward the bloodsucking monks who have latched onto them as "spiritual advisors." These guys have been doing a shitty job, apparently, of preparing the family for the inevitable.

[deutsey]

25. Again, you've watched this more than I have

I know the basics about Terri Schiavo's medical condition, I know the parents and husband disagree on what to do (hence the controversy), I know the GOP is cynically exploiting this situation.

Beyond that, I could not pick anyone of the family members (parents or husband) out of a lineup if my life depended on it.

I still say, even so, that making fun of someone in the parents' situation is bad form. Yell to high heaven how they're also cynically exploiting this situation if that's the case, but even if they are, how is that funny? :shrug:

Humor is, of course, very subjective. Lenny Bruce went on with his show the night of JFK's assassination, which I think was kind of brave, but from what I understand, he wasn't poking fun at the murder in Dallas (how could he?), he poked fun at those who had made their careers ridiculing the Kennedys, which apparently had become a cottage industry for some in the early '60s. There apparently was one comedian in particular who made his living off of ridiculing the Kennedys...Bruce found the humor in wondering what he was going to do for a living now that JFK was gone.

[BurtWorm]

26. I had a thread deleted because I made fun of the idea that

the Schindlers allowed themselves to believe "aaaaaaaa.....WAAAAAAAAA!!!" (which Terri was alleged to have "miraculously" said very recently), meant "I want to live." I suggested an alternative translation might be, "I want someone to just shoot me." Other possible translations leap to mind.

[deutsey]

29. Humor is subjective

I don't see the humor in that, personally; but I don't think it should have been deleted, either. It sounds like something the old National Lampoon might have done, but then again I think their humor could be very callous and hurtful.

I liked the "Vietnamese Baby Book" parody, for example, which might offend some people (it had things like "Baby's first bombing raid", "Baby's first wound", etc., and ended, I think, with the baby's death during a US raid)--at it's heart there was a sense of moral outrage over the US bombing of Vietnam. At least that's what I saw, anyway.

There were other examples of NatLamp humor that I found offensive and very mean-spirited because, to me, they lacked that moral outrage or identification with those suffering. The only example that comes to mind right now was something like "Children's Letters to Himmler" (parodying "Children's Letters to God"), in which kids asked Himmler questions like how were the SS able to stuff Jews into ovens when their mothers could barely fit a pot roast in their oven at home. That's not verbatim, but it's the gist of one of the letters. I didn't (and don't) find that funny, not even in a "aw man, that's cold" kind of way.

[BurtWorm]

30. I remember that Vietnam Baby Book

That was biting, angry satire, which tends to resonate with me. That "Is Nothing Sacred?" issue, form which that came, I think, was very seminal to my sensibilities.

I can't help finding something appallingly funny--in a kind of, if I don't laugh I'll scream sort of way--about the desperation of the Terri must live crowd to turn her every tic into a sign that she's on their side. They just keep finding new ways to hammer at my reflexes.

[deutsey]

32. I can understand where you're coming from

The more I find out about this situation, the more it seems like there is a very thin (maybe even non-existent at this point) line separating the piggish from the pathetic. :hi:

[HamstersFromHell]

56. Sort of reminds me of Monty Python's "Life of Brian"

with the only difference being Terri doesn't even know she's got a deluded mob following every (alleged) movement.

[El Fuego]

10. I'm laughing!

(Disclaimer: I'm making fun of the right-to-life fundie federal case circus, not the tragic situation yada yada.)

I'm actually doing a happy dance because the brothers Bush are such big LOSERS in all this!!! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

LOSERS!!!!!!!:bounce:

[Vanje]

11. Comedy Noir

The Schiavo story has the very bones of dark comedy.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. How can one not? The clown act is especially amusing.

As performed by the likes of the BushClowns, Randall Terry, Keys, Freepers, noted nurses and medical "experts" who claim Terri does backflips in between singing opera arias. And, who can forget the Delay act, complete with alleged "liberal" politicians acting as his straight men?

Come one, come all. Next act will include an army of Angels carting the body to heaven.

[rocktivity]

13. Yes, because it's really the "GOP As Your Own Personal Jesus" circus

President Mightymouse cut his vacation short to help Terri while Baby Sun died in own back yard; Tom Delay looks more monstrous than ever; Bill Frist and the doctor Jeb bought in may have jeopardized their medical licenses by diagnosing via video; Jeb can't interfere any further without breaking federal law; the Democrats looks like the victims of an attempted smear, and public opinion is running against them nearly 7 to 1. So go ahead--enjoy.

Terri died at least seven years ago. What's being fought over is the empty receptacle she left behind--that's the big joke here, not Terry herself. Terri herself is as above it all as the stars.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Mz Pip]

16. Mark Twain

said that out of the greatest tragedies come the greatest comedies - or something to that effect.

Honestly, it's hard not to make fun of Randall Terry. He's positively salivating in his new found fame. And all the rest of those religious nut jobs who give Christianity a bad name - they've got it coming.

I do feel bad for the parents who seem to have sort of lost it over the years. They have projected so much of what they want to see happen onto Terri that they are blind to the realities of her situation.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Tinoire]

17. No... Never ever a good idea to laugh at people's sincerity or pain

Politically, it would be a terrible mistake on our part- no matter how we personally feel about it.

Laugh at a man's pain and you've made a mortal enemy out of him.

[BurtWorm]

20. Knowing if people are sincere through one's window on the spectacle

is very difficult. Sincere people don't usually have a blast making their story the center of everyone else's lives. In my experience, anyway.

[Tinoire]

36. Depends how desperate they are I think

Today, I'm going to start combing through old news about this because some things just aren't adding up for me.

If you were desperate, would you not be very visible?

[BurtWorm]

40. Desperate for what?

I'm not the kind of person who wants to believe in magic, so I don't think I would ever allow myself to be in the position the Schindlers are in. I would want the straight news from the doctors. I would want to face facts. I don't believe in miracles for other people, so I don't believe in them for myself.

I'm also not the kind of person who wants visibility of my private affairs, so I don't understand the Schindlers' embrace of the media attention.

Can you imagine any situation in which you would go to Congress to ask them to make a special law just for you because the judicial system isn't doing what you want it to do for you? Can you imagine ever feeling that much entitlement to use the people's government as your personal rulemaker?

[Tinoire]

42. Burt, I'd be so loud you'd hear me in your sleep!

But I see it differently.

I don't believe in magic either but facing facts, I know that come things we call miracles on this earth are simply things we don't understand.

I don't think the parents are asking for a special law just for them, they seem more to me to be requesting that her husband be removed as her legal guardian.

Honestly, I can see myself that desperate out of love. I know how protective I was when my little sister was raped. There isn't a step I wouldn't have stood on or a camera I wouldn't have stepped in front of to bring that lying criminal to justice. If I were a parent and I had indication that my daughter was damaged as a result of possible spousal abuse (you read the Village Voice reports right) and the man was acting the way Michael is, refusing to release records, refusing me permission to see my daughter, refusing the staff permission to talk to me, refusing me permission to have a single say in the treatment of my daughter, suddenly remembering she didn't want to be on life support after accepting a $700,000 settlement for her care, moving in with his girlfriend less than a year after the tragedy and fathering two children with her while denying my daughter rehabilitative care,,,, oh yes, I'd be hollering from the top of the Statue of Liberty and LOUD.

Would you really blame me? I wouldn't let me daughter go until I knew in my mind that I had done everything medically possible to rehabilitate her. I really blame Michael Schiavo for that. If she is so dead that he thinks she can't feel anything, what harm is there in respecting the parent's desire to try?

It's a difficult situation any way you look at it.

[BurtWorm]

49. I agree it's a difficult situation.

But, Tinoire, these people have made clear they are not interested in what medicine can do for them or their daughter. They are completely and utterly faith based. They have no legal right to control their daughter's fate. They are pleading that they are a special case. If the exception were to be made for them in this case (which doesn't look likely anymore), what is going to become of a spouse's rights in these circumstances. You may not believe what the courts and the court-appointed guardians have found about the credibility of Michael Schiavo as a guardian and caretaker, but it's *their* findings that matter.

Michael Schiavo, from all I know about him, did "everything medically possible to rehabilitate" his wife before he decided that he could not bring her back to consciousness. It was his right to make the decision. Even believing that she is essentially dead, he cared for her body enough to see to it that in all her years of being bed-ridden, she never developed a pressure sore. That is astonishing. It's also a mark of his sincerity that he has gone through the courts to bring the case to a conclusion when he could well have taken the law into his own hands, if he were that kind of person.

As for Nat Hentoff's and other desperate right-to-lifer's charges againt him, I think they should be ashamed of themselves, but of course they won't be. The principle of right to life matters more to a lot of people in that camp than carefulness with facts and care not to bear false witness. What do they care if they demonize Michael Schiavo if that wins them converts to the Cause?

[Earth_First]

21. I voted no...

but I swayed between voting "No" or "Other". Other being that I choose to ignore the entire diversionary tactics that this media circus creates.

[beam me up scottie]

22. WWSD?

What would Shakespeare do?

[BurtWorm]

24. Find a less tawdry subject

probably.

PS: Actually, that's a very interesting question. Worth thinking about. Seriously!

[beam me up scottie]

27. It's always okay to laugh at idiots.

example: I won't laugh at someone's body be it fat, skinny, funny-shaped, etc., however if someone makes themselves up to look like MiMi, it's open season.

[Cocoa]

23. it's mandatory

this circus is what God invented ridicule for.

[Algorem]

28. I heard someone say she's not a vegetable because she can still go to-

bogganing.This was wrong for them to say that.

[BurtWorm]

31. Boy, is that wrong.

That is just so... what's the word...

...wrong.

[Algorem]

33. It perturbed me,I still feel a mild annoyance recalling it.

[BurtWorm]

34. I'll be recalling it to other who I'm sure will also be

mildly annoyed by it.

[Eloriel]

55. What you don't know, Algorem

is that this thread is in direct response to a thread BurtWorm started yesterday which thankfully got completely yanked from DU for its appalling tastelessness. Burt had made fun of Terri herself and I found it quite ugly.

So, stung, I imagine, or perhaps just negatively surprised, he wants to buttress his position on the whole affair. But sadly, he's NOT doing that. The question in this thread is about making fun of the whole affair, whereas HIS "fun" was made at Terri Schiavo's direct expense.

a few weeks ago in a thread on a completely different subject, I shared an observation I had about a few DUers who are also members of another discussion forum. I was roundly chastised for my comments, EVEN THO some of those attacking me were actually validating the very comments they objected to by virtue of their behavior on that very thread. AFAIC, here we have yet another case -- I'll call it Exhibit B.

[BurtWorm]

64. That's not true, Eloriel.

I was not making fun of Terri, or even of the shell that used to be Terri. I was making fun of the appalling tastelessness of the Schindler camp--OF THE SCHINDLER CAMP--trying to turn meaningless sounds from the patient's throat into words justifying their insane attack on the judiciary system.

I'm appalled that so many people don't get this. Appalled! And angry.

[BurtWorm]

71. PS: What YOU probably don't know, Eloriel

is that "aaaaaa......WAAAAAAAA!!!!!!" was my transcription of a Schindler friend's rendering on CNN yesterday morning of the noise Terri Schindler's throat made which she translated as ("a miracle!" she claimed) "I want to live!"

And that's tasteful?! :wtf:

(If you DO know that, I'm utterly baffled that you could give the Schindler camp credit for taste while blithely accusing me of being tasteless.)

[deadparrot]

35. Yes to the circus,

no to the situation that brought it about.

[Jersey Devil]

37. They didn't think my post at freeperland was funny

A photoshopped pic of the Terri Schiavo Grilled Cheese Sandwich that I was offering to them before putting it on EBay.

[beam me up scottie]

38. can we see it???????

please please please?

[nonconformist]

39. Yes. Circuses are meant to entertain, no?

Nobody is making fun of Terri or the very real pain her family is going through.

But come on, the right is imploding! We've earned the right to enjoy that part of this.

And I would be remiss not to add that this is a comedy goldmine.

[bemildred]

41. Other: it is mandatory.

If you take this sort of thing seriously it will make you nuts too.

[Swamp Rat]

43. Yes! I say blast ANYONE you want to!

My family is going through a similar situation right now, and I say FUCK political correctness! I am dealing with loss and impending loss at this very moment, so I find it cathartic to address it AND the Rovian media circus through art. :grr:

[Tinoire]

44. Damn. I did not need to hear that

Sending you pink vibes my friend. Hang in there!

[Swamp Rat]

48. .

:hug:

[Tinoire]

53. :)

:hug: :hug:

You my friend are one of the dearest people I know. I hate knowing you're in emotional pain.

SMOOCH!

[Swamp Rat]

57. thanks

:hug: The waiting is tough. :cry:

[BurtWorm]

50. Your art is wild and beautiful, Swamp Rat!

I'm sorry to hear you're going through that kind of shit. I wish you the best.

:hi:

[Swamp Rat]

58. thanks

But in all honesty, I just vandalise low-res, AP photos. ;)

:kick:

[BurtWorm]

61. That's why it's so beautiful.

AND wild. ;)

[Catchawave]

45. I feel guilty thinking this all is sooooooooooo

"Weekend at Bernies" :silly: Somehow expecting her to make an appearance with dark sunglasses and a big hat on Larry King.

[BurtWorm]

51. It's very hard not to think of Bernie.

Maureen Dowd said something like that in today's column.

[MrSlayer]

46. If Congress can turn it into a joke, why not the rest of us?

It's not like Darling Terri is going to be offended.

[LibertyorDeath]

47. Larry King says it's okay

"What if they found a miracle cure, Michael, wouldn't you feel TERRIBLE?" Larry King

[sendero]

52. Regardless...

.... of whether the ancillary players in this drama (Congress, the Shindlers, the media) are despicable gutter-slime, at the root of this drama is a woman whose life has been over for a while but will end forever soon.

It is not a situation that I'm going to take any satisfaction from, I'll leave it to the ghouls (Congress, the Shindlers, the media) to debase themselves in that way.

[liberal43110]

54. yes, it's ok

because it's pathetic and completely brought on by the idiots themselves

[panbanger]

59. people using their kids in protests

it's just so sad.

[Skittles]

60. it's hard for me to get past the human tragedy of it all

it all comes back to Terri, once such a vibrant young girl, now completely robbed of her dignity.

[SillyGoose]

63. No - this is a tragic case, no matter what side you look at.

It is a family tragedy that should be given some degree of respect despite the media and the political machine mauling it for their own agenda.

[BurtWorm]

65. It's a democratic tragedy

when theocrats try to legislate the courts into irrelevance.

[SillyGoose]

67. Maybe so, Burt, but still a personal tragedy nonetheless.

Making light of a horrific family crisis should not be comedic fodder for any of us.

[BurtWorm]

69. That seems too kneejerk and safe, from my perspective.

The Schindlers, as many have pointed out here, made this into a circus. They undignified themselves and the tragedy in the process. They've engaged in some ugly tactics. They've behaved horribly. I'm not sure they deserve anyone's sympathy, let alone mine.

[SillyGoose]

70. I understand that argument and I don't dispute it.

Consider this - if someone descends into a pit of slime, are we obligated to follow?

[BurtWorm]

72. I don't view laughing to keep from screaming as descending into the slime.

No one can get get as low from outside this situation as those "poor" people inside it have gone.

[SillyGoose]

76. If you have to laugh about it to keep from screaming about it

then follow your heart. I'm almost at that point myself. I just hope things don't devolve into something disrespectful to either side.

Thanks for asking what we all thought...that was pretty human of you to do, but I would advise to go easy.;-)

[Greylyn58]

66. Yes to the insane circus

but No to the personal sorrow both sides of this family are going through.

I feel for Michael wanting to fulfill his promise to Terri and let her go in peace.

And I feel for the Schindlers who are losing their daughter and are so consumed with their own grief that they can't see how they are being used and manipulated by the "Rapture Rightists" and the Whore Media.

This whole event has all the makings of a Greek Tragedy.

[BurtWorm]

68. I've stopped feeling for the Schindlers.

They're enjoying this too much.

[Greylyn58]

74. Maybe I'm naive

but for the moment I want to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I may change my mind later.

[BurtWorm]

78. You're a better person than I am.

I sometimes wish I could feel simple pity for them, but I find their behavior to be inexcusable. I'm talking mainly of how they've villified Michael Schindler while allowing themselves to be canonized by the insane religious right. Among others of their crimes and misdemeanors in my book.

[Greylyn58]

80. On that point, I will agree with you....n/t

[queeg]

73. you are born, you live, you die.

If you can't laugh at all three then you have ceased to be human. Shit happens in this world, sometimes bad shit happens to good people, thats the way things work.

The only thing seperating humans from the animals is that we can laugh at our foibles.

Yeah this is a tragic curcumstance but thats just it. It's part of life. I have never been to a funeral where there wasn't laughter somewhere.

[Stop_the_War]

81. YES n/t

[SCliberal73]

82. I can't claim originality

for the term, but 'Terripalooza' sums up the circus/carnival atmosphere outside the Florida hospice.

The fundie freakshow deserves mockery. The spectacle they have turned the dying days of a woman in a PVS is obscene.