Red lake shooter on Prozac.-'The clues were all there' ......

[Wcross]

He was taking the antidepressant Prozac and at least once was hospitalized for suicidal tendencies, said Gayle Downwind, a cultural coordinator at Red Lake Middle School, who taught Weise.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/03/24/MNG7UBU2GT1.DTL&feed=rss.news

Wasn't one of the columbine shooters on medication as well?

[Freddie Stubbs]

1. So, he already had mental problems

The question is, did the medication make him worse, or would have snapped any way? :shrug:

[Mari333]

2. Yep, also Prozac

We live in a society that uses our children as guinea pigs for Pharmaceutical companies. This is the result ..

(Better change your title to the one on the news page)

[rurallib]

3. IIRC they all were

as well as the kid in paducah, and the jonesboro kids, that kid in cnanada a couple years ago. Strange how the old MSM doesn't ever mention that

[atommom]

4. He was, but he had bigger problems that just that. And there were

plenty of warning signs. IMO, he doesn't count as one of those people who "just snapped" because of the medication.

[TahitiNut]

5. Well, it seems to have helped steady his aim.

:eyes:

[rockedthevoteinMA]

6. Well it might not have helped him. I know from experience with

family members that antidepressants such as prozac can cause a manic phase in people if they aren't diagnosed properly. And in this day and age it takes about 15 minutes for the psychiatrists to diagnose someone, then you're stuck with that label for a long long time, until the next crisis.

[insane_cratic_gal]

11. I heard this

Or read about it long ago back when I was in my early 20's (33 now)

Medications like zoloft, Prozac ect .. If in your family history or pedigree you have manic depression or any sort of serious illness that has skipped a generation, taking these medications can cause that dormant gene to light up. How is that possible? I don't' know.. but whatever is in the drug seems to stimulate the recessive gene.

My doctor at the time wanted me to try zoloft for a small bout of depression I was going through. I decided to do some reading, My dad is manic, so when I saw that it can induce Manic episodes. For those who carry the gene are more susceptible to having a full blown manic episode, I decided against it.

Mainly these kids aren't suffering from severe depression, that is biological. What if it's situational, instead of doing the hard work, like regular counseling.. mentoring we are just medicating them because it's easier. Teenage years sucked.. there is no denying it. Teasing, hormones, self pity. these lead to psychological depression not inherited depression, yet we are treating them with severe medications made for full blown Bi polar??

We know he was living with his Grandfather and his girlfriend, which suggests his parents are absent, right there I get a warning sign. Kid who needs to talk, why isn't health insurance, doctors more then willing to pay for meds, but not mentor a child and see them through their problems? Why did he continue to be treated with Prozac with the FDA and congress issued warnings about Prozac and children? They know the risk is there.

who is heading up the corrupted FDA these days? If your kids are on these, be sure to research on your own.

http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/antidepressants/MDD_alldruglist.pdf

[shrike]

14. Yep

Lots of sloppy diagnoses out there. I've taken Prozac for years, and it's a great drug when conditions are right. But it's not for a case of the blues. Major depression is a serious illness, potentially life-threatening. Prozac is a psychotropic drug, meaning it is serious shit. It should not be passed out like candy.

[Donailin]

26. there were congressional hearings on this

but the pharmaceutical companies are still peddling the dope.

Like i say in my profile: "If the American dream is so great, then why are we the number one consumers of prozac and ritalin?"

[UpInArms]

7. related article:

FDA reluctantly supports conclusion that antidepressants cause suicidal thoughts and violent behavior

Wednesday, March 23, 2005

The FDA denied it for years. Now, with the evidence overwhelming skeptics, the agency has admitted antidepressant drugs cause children to think suicidal thoughts. Of course, the FDA won't ban the drugs -- they're too profitable for Big Pharma! Related articles on this topic are also available on the NewsTarget Network, including: FDA censorship, suppression of its own scientists is routine, survey reveals.

...very short newsblurb with imbedded links...

[applegrove]

8. The danger with SSRIs is that what helps you also can hurt you.

You cannot be depressed on SSRI very easily because you cannot fantasize very much at all. You are constantly in the moment. So, there may be sexual side effects (fantasy helps all the way through). And the problem with violence is that if something is in your face bothering you, you do not

1) shut down or loose your working memory as depression does (removes you physically from the stressor)
2) you can not have to compensating fantasy that may calm you down if you go to far one way - intellectually

If you are being harassed and getting angrier because of a situation ..try something other than Prozac (paxil works). Prozac will keep you in the moment and if you are in a situation that is emotionally intense..you gotta stay away, fix it, or try some other pill.

read about it in the New Yorker just in time to pull myself out of taking the pills when I had been harassed to the point I couldn't take it anymore and had to give up my home, my friends and my family and move away. Glad I had the information that anger should never be allowed to build on that pill in particular.

[Merlin]

13. Got a ref. for that NYer piece?

Thanks for your post. Very interesting. I think also that SSRIs can't do their job if subject is taking other substances that are seratonin depressors, such as booze.

[applegrove]

15. That can be a part of it - on prozac for sure.

The article was in the new yorker in 1987,88 Actually a famous article. If you want to google I believe the words she used were "cannot support a fantasy" or something. I do not have time to search today.

[Merlin]

16. Many thanks. I'll look it up.

Although the NYer only came online a couple of years ago. Don't know if they have their archives up yet.

[HuckleB]

19. Huh?

"You cannot fantasize very much at all"? Sorry, but that's not true. If that's a side effect of the particular SSRI someone is on, then that person is on the wrong medication.

[Krupskaya]

9. People, it's not just one thing.

To try to make it one thing is a mistake.

He had just moved up to the isolated and very poor reservation after living in the Cities.

His father had committed suicide after a shootout with police. His mother was in a devastating car accident and is unresponsive on life support.

He was seriously depressed and isolated.

He claimed online he'd been abused.

It's all part of a bigger picture; one that we avoid at our peril.

[kineneb]

17. Doesn't sound like the medicine was the problem

With the details of his personal life, no wonder he was depressed. Also, if the father was a suicide, the child probably was also at risk for similar mental issues. He may have exploded even if he was not medicated. One of the effects of depression is extreme irritation and anger with small things. Add suicidal tendencies to that and ugly things can happen.

Been there, done that, did not get a t-shirt. The docs can talk about depression, I have lived it.

[shrike]

18. Me, too.

It's not for sissies.

[HuckleB]

22. Good post.

The focus on anti-depressants far too often ignores the whole picture.

[gordianot]

10. Every school I know of has several candidates.

Medication including Prozac is fairly common. Taking Prozac or medication does not automatically qualify a student for monitoring. With HIPPA and FERPA in effect many teachers do not have a clue who is taking medication. As far as threats go for violent rampages they crop up from time to time. Of course schools cannot discuss what they are dealing with, but the threats and students with serious concerns are not that rare.

I really think there is a mimic effect, much as what occurs with student suicide. There are students who are persecuted by peers, have many issues. Some administrators handle these situations well others keep their head in the sand.

I am really surprised that more incidents do not occur. Overall schools must do a good job handling these situations given the number of potential candidates.

Also remember schools are a reflection of the culture in which they exist.

[Merlin]

12. Good points all.

Thanks for untying that one, Gordian.

[postulater]

20. Nearly all these type of killers are on antidepressants

There are lots of people with the same type problems who aren't on antidepressants. Do you hear of any of these people killing like this?

Antidepressants are a risk factor for suicide.
<http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/02/050223141638.htm>

I remember reading the Milwaukee Journal after the Dahmer arrest. There was a small article telling about the prescription for antidepressants that was found in his apartment. The reporter tracked down the psychiatrist who wrote it to ask for some background. The psychiatrist had no recollection of having written it, had no records of having written it, and when asked said he often wrote scrips for people with just a phone call when a social worker or other prefessional told him someone needed it. He never even examined Dahmer and he prescribed a drug that interacts with alcohol. Dahmer was a known alcoholic.

Anybody know which one/s Terry Ratzman (who did the hotel shootings a couple weeks ago in Brookfield/Milwaukee) was on?

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. I've been on Prozac, yet I haven't killed anyone. However, kids

that are on anti-depressants ought to be watched. For one thing rage and depression often go hand in hand. If we know they are struggling, we need to help them work through their troubles as best we can, but also keep an eye on whether or not this is a youngster who is liable to turn his inward anger outward.

[savannahana]

23. recommended reading on psychotropics, FDA, big pharma

http://www.breggin.com/

Breggin has bucked Big Pharma & all its corrupt cronies for decades & has been made to pay the price. But he does not give up.

...talk about speaking truth to power: this man's a pioneer, & one of my few heroes.

hope some of you will read & pass the link along

[HuckleB]

24. Just because he fights scumbags, doesn't mean he's honest himself.

"There is no evidence that any of the common psychological or psychiatric disorders have a genetic or biological component."
-- Peter Breggin, M.D.

That statement is all anyone needs to know about Breggin. It doesn't get much more ridiculous than that.

[kineneb]

25. what a load of horseradish

This so-called doc knows nothing. Let me introduce him to my medical records and a copy of the family tree.