The West Wing with a Republican President?

[dsc]

First for the art imitates life portion Ron Silver, who in real life is a Democrat who has turned Republican, is a consultant who was Democratic and now is Republican.

The interesting thing is Alan Alda's Senator Vinick. He is a Republcan who doesn't go to church. The heart of the episode is his dealing with that so I won't go into it. He winds up with a conservative up and comer as his running mate. I really think they are heading toward Vinick winning. He is both charismatic and into doing the right thing from his perspective.

Even while going Republican, they are getting their digs in at Bush. Vinick is almost the anti Bush. In place of false religiousity we get honest agnosticism. In place of the 24/7 to Hell with governance campaigning, we get a responsible person who works with Democrats. I am not sure I like the idea of a Republican West Wing but it is starting to grow on me a bit.

[deadparrot]

1. I know it's waking me up.

Honestly, I've never seen the Republicans as anything but the party of religious fanaticism. The idea of an agnostic Republican kind of blows my mind.

[cynatnite]

4. Vinick comes off more as a dem than a repub n/t

[deadparrot]

5. In the real world,he probably would be.

At the very least, he'd be extremely anti-Bush.

[GetTheRightVote]

2. I like Martin as pres & democrat, I hope no repub wins on WW

I would be sad to see it change that much.

:kick:

[question everything]

41. After 8 years of a Democrat in the WH I won't be surprised

if they change parties.

But with Republicans control both the W.H. and Congress, they won't have many areas of tension, unless it will be a moderate president and a rabid Congress.

[cynatnite]

3. I got this crazy idea....

Vinick as Pres and Santos as Vice-Pres

It's TV so it could happen

[never_get_over_it]

8. I've been thinking that too

but as a person who has not missed a single episode and owns the DVDs of the first three seasons - I would hate to see a repunk as President. Actually I'm not sure it is even decided that WW will be returning next year. I've heard they are in negotiations to return for only one season and also in negotiations with Martin Sheen to have some role after he leaves the Presidency

We actually got robbed of a year of Bartlett - when the show started they were finishing year one and it has been on six seasons - so we really should be doing the election next year - oh well. I love the show and it won't be the same without Martin Sheen

and btw I freaking hate Ron Silver and when he showed up tonight I screamed at him....

[cynatnite]

11. With Alan Alda as Vinick, I wouldn't mind

He's actually likeable and how the show ended tonight, I really liked it. He's an agnostic republican which has a certain appeal.

It would be an interesting mix if this happens, but it won't be the same as the originals.

I do love Martin Sheen as the Pres. He's been exceptional. I will miss everyone else. Toby, CJ, Josh and Donna. I still miss Sam, too.

Ron Silver pisses me off whenever I see him. I'm with you on that.

[shelley806]

17. Another twist of irony Alan Alda is a Democrat playing a Repug....

n/t

[question everything]

42. and Ron Silver a pug playing a dem... n/t

[Mojambo]

9. I've been tossing that one around for a while

They would have to suspend the laws of political reality to make it happen but it would allow them to keep the star power of both guys.

I don't see it happening though.

Eventually Santos will win it and Smits will stay on.

[never_get_over_it]

14. They suspended political reality

when they ran Hoynes for President - no VP who resigned in disgrace would ever have run for President - so I guess they could do anything they want - they also have run up huge deficits lately under Bartlett and I don't get that - that would be repunk admins that run up huge deficits....

[deadparrot]

25. I think the Republican convention is next week,

and when they showed a momentary clip of the convention, they showed Vinick and his running mate, and I don't think it was Santos.

But who knows?

[bmbmd]

34. You are correct.

It is a fantasy of the never realized Kerry+McCain ticket.

[Not_Giving_Up]

45. I've thought that since the night

they sat down together in the diner after Santos took the "Ethanol Pledge"

[global1]

6. It Would Be Cool If They Left The Decision Up To The Viewers......

NBC should have an Internet vote and let us viewers vote between Jimmy Smits and Alan Alda. What a concept - the viewers picking the direction of the TV show.

[Darth_Ole]

7. Tonight's episode is amazing.

I kinda hope Alan Alda's character wins. I think he's a better acter than Jimmy Smits... Smits isn't presidential, either... The only bad thing about a Vinick win is the cast would be completely overhauled. Of course, I don't think the show should be extended past Bartlett's administration, but that's a whole 'nother matter...

[kris10ep]

10. I completely disagree about Smitts

I think that character would be such a refreshing and interedting change. I really like Jimmy Smitts....much more than Alan Alda in this context.

[Harlequin]

23. Smitts BLEW CHUNKS as a senator in Star Wars...

why would he be any better on West Wing?

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. Oh, it wasn't Smits that fouled up Star wars

It was Star Wars.

If the three prequels teach us anything, it's that the first three movies kinda sucked, too.

[dsc]

30. NYPD Blue and LA Law

watch him in either of those and you'll see his potential. He is quite young though which is a problem for the role of President.

[Harlequin]

31. Right. I was kind of thinking, in retrospect, about that NYPD episode

where he comes back from the dead. The raw stupidity of that TV moment colored his career in my mind. I liked him on NYPD blue, but that's also because the woman who played his wife, wazzername from All My Children, was so beautifully in love.

[WillowTree]

33. Jimmy Smits will be 50 years old in July.

Older than several presidents when they were first elected.

[drew4president]

19. I agree

I've been a huge WW fan since it started. I believe this show has made some of the best arguments for the Dem¡¦s that I've seen. But the bottom line is Alan Alda is a more interesting character and a better actor. It would be heartbreaking to loose Toby, CJ, Josh, Leo, Jed and Charlie. ;)

BTW, I agree with most of Vinicks positions, and I'm democrat.

[alcuno]

22. Welcome to DU! I loved the last line of tonight's show......

I think it was "Those who demand signs of religious faith from their politicians are just begging, begging to be lied to."

[drew4president]

27. Thanks for the welcome

Thanks, I've been a regular reader since the Dem primaries. I don’t really post much, but I enjoy reading along.

http://hammermba.blogspot.com/">HammerMBA

[Harlequin]

38. Niiiice

[ktowntennesseedem]

12. Might just be interesting to see a real Republican portrayed,

a traditional, old-school Republican; one that could paint a stark contrast to the bozo occupying the real West Wing now. With a Dem in office on the show, it's easy for detractors to dismiss it all as hollywood fantasy. But a good moderate Republican in office, it could be the producers way of saying, "this is what a real Republican looks like."

[shelley806]

13. Thanks for the post and update....I missed it tonight; watched cable

on the Schiavo Hypocrisy and it was not good at all for my temper or digestion. I was so mad when I realized I'd missed West Wing!

[Cleita]

15. I wouldn't mind them having a Republican win, but Alda

is being presented as too honorable of a guy. I would want someone like Bush and the rest of the Rovian Nazis to steal an election and then we could have four seasons of exposing them for what they are. That could be fun. Art imitating real life.

[shelley806]

20. That would be GREAT!!! eom

[drthais]

16. I think this is a brilliant strategy.....

turn West WIng into a real-life WhiteHouse drama
in which the Repugs (who are not truthful about what they believe)
come into power on the wings of the disillusioned

I think if WestWIng were to morph into a Repug-President show
it would be striking - and it would speak truth

yes -
I hope this is the plan
to speak to how many of us feel
that our country has been taken over
by those who speak with forked tongues

[cynatnite]

18. But Vinick is nowhere near the asswipe bush is n/t

[Enraged_Ape]

35. I agree. (R)s need to be reminded what (R)s are all about

Remember fiscal responsibility? Remember smaller government? Remember safeguarding our environment, our natural resources, and our forests? Remember ensuring that corporate investments went into the United States FIRST? Remember keeping the government OUT of our personal lives?

These all used to be values the Republicans aligned themselves with, with PRIDE, and not all that long ago. As a Republican, I know I did. Now the party has been hijacked by a bunch of neoconservative fascist crazies who want nothing more or less than to see the U.S. completely destroyed, thus ensuring an ENDLESS supply of dirt-cheap labor for their sickest dreams.

I applaud this move. It's just what these poor, deluded kool-aid quaffers need.

[Tactical Progressive]

21. I'm hoping for Jimmy Smits too

I like Alan Alda, and in real life he's a Progressive, so that sounds good. But I just can't imagine the hypocrisy of a TV show where Republicans deal honestly with the issues of the day with any kind of concern for the best that they can do for America, rather than one where their every single brain cell is focused on getting themselves more power and money at the expense of everyone and everything else in the United States and on earth. That is the only right-wing agenda that could be played to reality.

But that won't happen for the writers of The West Wing. There won't be Cheney-style energy meetings where they give license to their energy industry cohorts to fuck California any way they want. There won't be energy and interior secretaries devoted to dismantling environmental protections any way they can for their corporate masters. There won't be any talk of letting America get attacked by terrorists so that they can militarily occupy oil and gas rich nations. There won't be vice-presidents going to the CIA to phony up intelligence. There won't be Enron Republican-style phone conversations where they snicker about poor 'grandma Millie' getting screwed by their unending desire to gut governmental social policy.

In short, the writers of the West Wing would never portray Republican ideology in anything even close to the real-life savagery that it is. And I don't really need to see a phony, noble, decent, humanistic - in short, dishonest fairy tale about Republicans coming out of the television. As sick as it would make me to watch it, it would be even sicker thinking anyone in America would believe a word of it even for the short time it would survive the ratings plummet.

I like Alan Alda and he plays bad guys really well, but that's not the show that would be written. The show that would be written is not one I'd want to see. The Jimmy Smits character seems so much more interesting anyway, even if Alan Alda is an interesting actor.

[cynatnite]

24. Vinick isn't just a repub, he's also pro-choice

He can't get a VP running mate.

This is how I think it will play out:

Russell and Santos are running neck and neck. Russell wins the Dem nomination. I don't know who Russell would pick for a running mate. Not Hoynes for sure.

Vinick is the repub nominee and can't get a running mate because of his abortion stance. He and Santos met once and they seemed to hit it off.

No one likes Russell. He's an opportunistic jerk and doing well in the polls. Jed can't stand the guy and I don't think he wants to endorse him. Jed and Vinick hit it off as well.

A deal is struck after Santos loses the nomination. Vinick takes Santos on as VP running mate at Jed's recommendation. Bartlett will endorse them both and that will keep Russell out of the WH.

This scenario brings in new players and will also keep some of the favorites. It will make for an interesting next season with a dem VP and a repub Pres. It's never been done and since it's TV, it's okay.

Beside, politics has always made for strange bedfellows.

[T Town Jake]

49. Actually, the "Dem VP" and "repub Pres" thing HAS...

...been done once in American history: the election of 1864 gave the country a re-elected President Abraham Lincoln (R), and Vice-president Andrew Johnson, a Democrat. They ran on a "National Unity" ticket together, if I remember correctly.
Since Johnson was later impeached (though not convicted) by a Republican Congress, it didn't turn out so well, I guess. But still, just sayin'.

[cynatnite]

51. Good info!

Didn't know that.

[K-W]

26. Dont worry, the next episode will make santos look like gold.

They will play out this election drama for all its worth and keep us guessing, unless someone knows something I dont about it.

[applegrove]

29. So does this mean the west wing will have a Repuke in power? Oh - and

if they could be neocons and Hollywood could write scrips to explain all the propaganda... oh that would would be great. But I fear the network executives would be in Guantanamo before the scripts could be written.

[Scout]

32. I loved the ice cream scene

between Jed and Vinnick. Very humanizing scene, and I enjoyed their dialogue.

I'm hoping for a Vinnick/Santos team in the WW.

[Bonhomme Richard]

36. Vinick struck me as more Democrat than most...............

we have in office today.

[erpowers]

37. Santos

It might be Santos who wins the election. I am pretty sure that Vinick will not win the election. Which ever Democrat wins the nomination will be the president. Alan Alda did not sign a long term contract with "The West Wing". I believe Jimmy Smits signed a long term contract. It is possible that Russell will get the nomination and pick Santos as his running mate, but I think Santos will get the nomination. It seems that the White House may use Josh to sabotage Santos in order for Russell to win the nomination. I know on the preview for next week Josh is told he is going to do something for the Prsident. I do not know if that means he will help Santos win or if he will help Russell.

[serryjw]

39. Fear not...this is TV

and they will overturn the 22nd next week so Sheen can come back!

[question everything]

40. Vinick is expressing what Kerry should have said

what Democrats should say when presented with the "religious issues": abortion, stem cells research and now Schiavo.

I almost applauded when he said: those who seek answers to religious questions should go to church.

At the end my spouse commented that anyone who wants to understand what is going on should watch this show. Yes, I replied, but the fundies consider this a "liberal agenda." Yeah, was the reply - any program with a bit of intelligence is a "liberal agenda."

[onenote]

43. gonna have to get rid of the rest of the cast

even if they played it out with Santos (Smits) on the ticket with Vinick (Alda), if they get elected, it would be too unbelievable for CJ, Toby, et al to stick around. Not sure I'm ready for an entire new cast. Of course, in the real world, most of the WH staff would be replaced even if a Dem succeeded a Dem.

onenote

[Gloria]

44. Vinick reminds me of the old "Rockefeller" Republicans...from the

era of Javitz, Brook (remember Sen. Brook, a black Republican from CT...I think his name was Brook), John Lindsay, Charles Percy, etc. etc.

When the nutcases hadn't taken over the party....

If anything, showing a "non-nut Republican" may bring some people back to reality and start questionning what the hell the GOP is doing catering to the far right religious bunch...

[elshiva]

46. Ever read the Demopedia on

Bartlett? Bartlett=Howard Dean!

[Borgnine]

47. It's not going to be Vinick.

But what they're doing is pretty neat, and judging from all the conversations it's been getting, seems to be working. Instead of having the liberal Santos run against another extreme right-wing zealot (like the Bartlet/Ritchie election), they're showing us the ideal Republican (like Bartlet is the ideal Democrat), somebody who's fiscally conservative but actually sane on all the other issues. I think it could go a long way showing people just how extreme the real-life Republicans have gotten.

[I_Make_Mistakes]

50. I actually think 2 scenarios are possible

I think Vinnick (sp?) and a Dem., prob. Santos, is a real possibility. They can expose the RW agenda by having a moderate Republican fighting the RW and working with the Dems. for the good of the country. Remember, Vinnick gave Bartlett more than he wanted and asked to kill time before leaving, so it looked like they had fought tooth and nail?

Also, Santos, could win, it is about time for a non WASP to win. This would allow the show to focus more on domestic and minority issues, healthcare, good education for all, equal opportunity etc.

[cynatnite]

52. It would make for good TV

The only thing I ask is that they get rid of that squeaky sounding chick. That voice gets on my last nerve. :crazy:

[Hamlette]

48. Vinnic is NO republican, I hate that they potray a republican as a

decent person, I haven't seen one of them in real life for decades!

The show has lost its appeal to me...but I admit I watch it now and again, this week's episode pissed me off. How could a republican like Vinnic get vote ONE in the current party?

The show has become more propaganda from the right. "See, some republicans are good people?" Another attempt to show the right as decent people. BS Orwell anyone? Up is down.

[xcmt]

53. What I think will happen.

Given how this show's taken to squeezing every last bit of dramatic effect from all possible storylines since Sorkin left, and how they like to recycle omens and portents from prior episodes (everything involving Josh and his back history and people nearly getting killed, Bartlett describing precisely how Zoey will be kidnapped in the future), this is how I think it'll go down:

Russell wins the Democratic nomination, which sets up a situation where Santos pairs with Vinick, who can't find a VP in the party because of his views on abortion. Vinick/Santos wins in a landslide (because a Russell WW would be the worst show ever). HOWEVER--

Sometime either immediately before or after the inauguration, Vinick is assassinated by a fundy religious right-wing psycho, giving Santos the presidency.

1) This would satisfy the NBC desire to wring drama to its most extreme. Think about the possible tensions created by a Democrat getting the presidency fresh off a Republican landslide election. Plus then you'd have the possibility of staff turnover, constitutional gray areas if it happens before the inauguration, WW Republicans going absolutely ape-shit.

2) The cyclical history of the show almost demands this outcome, after the attempted Bartlett assassination, plus Josh's heavy involvement.

3) It'll help fulfill that odd sense of destiny the West Wing has infused into every Josh storyline. And they can't get rid of Josh or Donna until their relationship is at least partly resolved. It's the best thing the show has going.

4) It provides an easy excuse to retain characters from the Bartlett administration. I could see Josh becoming chief of staff, hiring Donna as press secretary, Will Bailey as communications director. I don't see how CJ or Toby would fit in, but I imagine there'd be some turnover involved as actors move onto other projects. Toby would make a great VP, but I doubt that'd happen, even under this scenario.