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Terryi Schiavo...KILLING LOVE

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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 01:58 PM
Original message
Terryi Schiavo...KILLING LOVE
As long as there is love, there is LIFE. Terri's parents and sister LOVE her. Where there is LOVE, there is LIFE.

Love is an electromagnetic energy...our planet pulses and emits this frequency as do our hearts.

WHAT RIGHT DO WE HAVE TO KILL LOVE??





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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. How about LIBERTY? The love of her parents does not strip her of her
liberty and self determination.

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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. more recent pictures


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filet mignon Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. I agree
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MISSDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sometimes you have to love someone enough
to let them go.
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. So you cannot love anything that's not alive?
Your equation fails.

If her parents truly loved her, they'd not have made public those humiliating and invasive photographs that you seem to enjoy throwing out yet again.

Loving someone means doing what is best for them, not for your own selfish interests, and her parents clearly don't care about what's best for their daughter.

Fortunately, her husband loves her and is doing everything he can to protect and take care of her.

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deek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. photos
Humiliating and invasive? How so?
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shrub chipper Donating Member (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. Do you think that their 'love'
will end when Terri is finally able to breath her last?

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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. She WAS a beautiful woman. Where there is selfishness there is much
sadness. It's not about her anymore. She's left.

A POEM FOR THE GRIEVING...

Do not stand at my grave and weep.
I am not there, I do not sleep.
I am a thousand winds that blow,
I am the diamond glints on snow.
I am the sunlight on ripened grain,
I am the gentle autumn's rain.
When you awaken in the morning's hush,
I am the swift uplifting rush
of quiet birds in circled flight.
I am the stars that shine at night.
Do not stand at my grave and cry,
I am not there, I did not die...


Wouldnt' that be so much better than loving the living dead? :shrug:
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Crankie Avalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. Respectfully, a great deal of misery is brought into the world...
...in the name of "love." "Love" can be deluded. "Love is all you need" is just a silly slogan from a Beatles song. When arriving at judgments, "love" doesn't hold a candle to "justice."
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Modem Butterfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
8. Are you for real?
There's no love, and only the faintest parody of life, left in Terri Schiavo. I'm not entirely sure her parents love her, in the sense of wanting what's best for her. I think they want to keep her around as an animated meat-sack to assuage their guilt and their grief at her loss.

Love is not an electro-magnetic pulse, it's an emotion, like anger, pettiness, and selfishness. Our planet doesn't pulse and emit anything but radiation. Which, come to think of it, might explain her parents' selfish disregard of their daughter.
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tubbacheez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
9. Bad logic. Love and life are connected, but not synonymous.
Life may end separately from love.

Love may end separately from life.

Ending one does not necessarily end the other. The two are independent of each other.

Yes, love may support life. Yes, life can support love. That's the potential connection.

But the two are very different and undeniably separate things.







I love many who do not and cannot live.

And the fact that love remains, even after life has left, is one of the most beautiful things I've ever encountered in my short time here on Earth.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. ???????
:wtf:
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deek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
11. a fellow DUer wrote:
"LOVE is a precious thing. Love needs a target. Terri is the target for her family. Terri cannot balance her checkbook, she may seem useless to the general population, she's certainly useless to her husband (ahem)..but she IS NOT USELESS TO HER PARENTS. Her life has meaning to someone. All of our lives have meaning to someone besides ourselves."

in response to the following essay at our Disability Issues forum:
Terry http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=250&topic_id=744&mesg_id=744
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Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
12. How old are those pictures???
You are being very deceptive.

BTW, she HAS no more 'electromagnetic energy' - her EEG is flat.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. very, very old...if you have seen anything more recent, that is obvious
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Prior to 1990...
She had her bulimic-related heart attack then stroke 15 years ago...any picture that shows her healthy or alert was taken before then.

Most the doctored videos CNNServative and the others run repeatedly were done prior to 2002 and earlier...again extremely deceptive as her condition has continued to regress and this led to the initial decision to pull the tube back in 1996.

Does one need to be alive to love? Does this mean I can no longer love my dearly departed parents and friends?

In my book, love means helping someone in distress allievate the pain and suffering. Terri's parents, while in love with their daughter, have been hood-winked and are the victims of a cruel agenda that will toss them aside once this circus moves on to it's next victim.
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Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. OH, and btw, you CAN'T kill love.
But you can certainly be a hypocrite about it.
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
15. Guess what?
we've got no business in this whatsoever.


according to the Rights afforded her and her husband by the US of A - it was their decision whether to "kill love" or not.



so thank your friendly neighborhood wingnuts for bringing the rest of us into this.
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
16. I still love my grandmother despite her being dead and gone
You can't kill love. But a human being is not love. They are a specific collection of cells that include a brain that creates a mind. Without that mind there is no person there. Without the mind its just a shell. It is not a person. And no matter how much love there is she is not going to wake up and return the love. She has as much love in her as a pet rock.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
17. What right do we have to kill...
him?:


Or the thousands of children like him?

American hypocrisy knows no bounds. This self-righteous 'choose life' bullshit from a country that kills thousands before breakfast is making me puke.

:puke:



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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
49. A-fucking-men!
:thumbsup:
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Batgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
19. my dad
the Bad:
• has dementia
• has been confined to a hospital bed in the living room for going on 3 years
• has little comprehension of what goes on around him
• is cared for by my mother like an infant

the Good:
• isn't in pain
• has little if any awareness of his situation
• is loved dearly by my mother (his wife of 50+ years) and by me and my two brothers

We all pray -- even those of us whose faith ranges from uncertain to none -- that he will be released from the prison that is his body.

When you see someone who's mind is already gone, but their body hasn't quite gotten the message yet, you realize that death isn't the worst thing that can happen to a person.
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
20. Wow.
:smoke:
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
21. How ethical is it to keep a person trapped in the dark in limbo,
for your own selfish needs?
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. I'm wondering where Terri's parents
got the money to continue this fight in the courts. If it were me and mine, I wouldn't have the money to take it to one court. Are they getting enough donations to make it lucrative for them to fight this?
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. Here is where they got the money.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/22/93155/7030

Money Trail in the Schiavo Case: Bioethics for Sale?
by gilgamesh
Tue Mar 22nd, 2005 at 06:31:55 PST


I was doing some googling this morning, looking for some interesting essays or discussions with respect to the moral philosophical aspects of the Terri Schiavo case when I just happened to run into this very interesting, to me anyway, morsel from the blog Bioethics.net


I wan't sure if this might be old news around here or not, but I couldn't remember any mention of these facts in previous diaries or comments that I've come across discussing this whole extroadinary travesty of fundmantal rights and consitutionalism.


It turns out, according to the article, that the fundamentalist virus has even infested the legal and philosophical bioethics community, warping the whole discussion of life and death issues in their favor. How can these bastards be stopped? And when are we going to stop them?


Diaries :: gilgamesh's diary ::


From bioethics.net:


My friend Jon Eisenberg who is a lawyer working on the Schiavo case just published this article. It makes very clear why I flagged the growing influence of right wing conservative foundation influence on bioethics in a previous blog. While some suggest that it is the 'left' which is politicizing our field this article makes it crystal clear where the political push is coming from. It also makes it clear what the nature is of the greatest threat to the integrity and credibility of bioethics-- secret non-disclosed funding of journals, professorships, conferences, and legal cases by arch-conservative foundations. Where are the laments about this source of blatant conflict of interest????
The Terri Schiavo Case: Following the Money

The Recorder
By Jon B. Eisenberg
March 4, 2005

Have you ever wondered who is bankrolling the seemingly endless courtroom effort to keep Terri Schiavo's feeding tube attached?

During the Watergate scandal, investigative reporters Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein were famously advised to "follow the money." In the Schiavo case, the money leads to a consortium of conservative foundations, with $2 billion in total assets, that are funding a legal and public relations war of attrition intended to prolong Terri's life indefinitely in order to further their own faith-based cultural agendas.

For the past 12 years, Terri's husband, Michael Schiavo, and her parents, Robert and Mary Schindler, have been locked in a bitter dispute over whether to withdraw artificial nutrition and hydration from Terri, whom the courts have determined is in a persistent vegetative state with no hope of recovery. The Schindlers want the doctors to keep Terri alive; Michael does not. Late last year, in Bush v. Schiavo, the Florida Supreme Court ruled that Florida Gov. Jeb Bush violated the constitutional separation of powers when he attempted to overturn a court order to remove Terri's feeding tube. A few weeks ago, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear the case.

I filed an amicus curiae brief in the Florida Supreme Court on behalf of 55 bioethicists and a disability rights organization opposing the governor's action. Two months later I participated in a public debate on the case at Florida State University. Among the participants supporting Gov. Bush's position were Pat Anderson, one of multiple attorneys who have represented the Schindlers, and Wesley Smith and Rita Marker, two activists whose specialty is opposing surrogate removal of life-support from comatose and persistent vegetative state patients. I found myself wondering: "I'm doing this pro bono; are they?"

I did some Internet research and learned that many of the attorneys, activists and organizations working to keep Schiavo on life support all these years have been funded by members of the Philanthropy Roundtable.

The Philanthropy Roundtable is a collection of foundations that have funded conservative causes ranging from abolition of Social Security to anti-tax crusades and United Nations conspiracy theories. The Roundtable members' founders include scions of America's wealthiest families, including Richard Mellon Scaife (heir to the Mellon industrial, oil and banking fortune), Harry Bradley (electronics), Joseph Coors (beer), and the Smith Richardson family (pharmaceutical products).

I found a Web site called mediatransparency.com which tracks funding for these foundations. Using just that Web site and the Schindlers' own site, terrisfight.org, I learned of a network of funding connections between some of the Philanthropy Roundtable's members and various organizations behind the Schindlers, their lawyers and supporters, and the lawyers who represented Gov. Bush in Bush v. Schiavo.

Here are a few examples:

Schindler lawyer Pat Anderson "was paid directly" by the anti-abortion Life Legal Defense Foundation, which "has already spent over $300,000 on this case," according to the foundation's Web site. Much of the support for Life Legal Defense Foundation, in turn, comes from the Alliance Defense Fund, an anti-gay rights group which collected more than $15 million in private donations in 2002 and admits to having spent money on the Schiavo case "in the six figures," according to a recent article in the Palm Beach Post. Mediatransparency.org states that between 1994 and 2002, the Alliance Defense Fund received $142,000 from Philanthropy Roundtable members that include the Lynde & Harry Bradley Foundation and the Richard and Helen DeVos Foundation.

Wesley Smith and Rita Marker also work for organizations that get funding from Roundtable members. Smith is a paid senior fellow with the Discovery Institute, a Seattle-based think tank that advocates the teaching of creationist "intelligent design" theory in public schools. Between 1993 and 1997, the Discovery Institute received $175,000 from the Bradley Foundation. Marker is executive director of the International Task Force on Euthanasia, which lobbies against physician-assisted suicide. In 2001, Marker's organization received $110,390 from the Randolph Foundation, an affiliate of the Smith Richardson family.

Roundtable members also played a role in financing the Bush v. Schiavo litigation.

The Family Research Council, which uses its annual $10 million budget to lobby for prayer in public schools and against gay marriage, filed an amicus curiae brief in Bush v. Schiavo supporting Gov. Bush, at the same time its former president, attorney Kenneth Connor, was representing the governor in that litigation. Between 1992 and 2000, the council received $215,000 from the Bradley Foundation.

Another amicus brief backing Bush was filed by a coalition of disability rights organizations that included the National Organization on Disability and the World Institute on Disability. The former received $810,000 between 1991 and 2002 from the Scaife Family Foundations, the Richard and Helen DeVos Foundation, and the JM Foundation; the latter received $20,000 in 1997 from the JM Foundation.

These connections may be just the tip of the iceberg. I'm no Woodward or Bernstein. I got this information using only the most rudimentary Google skills. I imagine that a thorough search by a seasoned investigator would yield quite a bit more.

With this kind of big bucks behind them, it's no wonder the Schindlers and their allies have been able to keep the legal fight over their daughter going for so long. And it's still not over. Although the U.S. Supreme Court has refused to intervene, the Schindlers' lawyers are now trying to prolong the litigation yet again through a series of post-judgment motions which, regardless of their merit, could yield stays that would continue to forestall the removal of Terri's feeding tube.

Maneuvers within the past few months have included requests for a new trial based on something the Pope said in a speech criticizing the removal of feeding tubes from persistent vegetative state patients, and on a newly minted claim that Terri was deprived of the right to independent court-appointed counsel. Those maneuvers achieved the desired delay but were ultimately unsuccessful. On Feb. 25, the trial judge, George Greer, ordered Terri's feeding tube to be removed March 18.

On Feb. 28, however, the Schindlers struck back by filing 15 written motions and requesting 48 hours of court hearing time. These motions run an extraordinary gamut, from a suggestion that Judge Greer should order Terri and Michael Schiavo be immediately divorced, to a request for "limited media access" to Terri, to a proposal for a 20-hour evidentiary hearing on Terri's "medical/psychiatric/rehabilitative status." The ploy is obvious: still more delay.

There is something wrong here. The Florida courts have ruled repeatedly -- based on her doctors' testimony and evidence of statements she previously made about her end-of-life wishes -- that Terri is in a persistent vegetative state, would not want her life to be prolonged under such circumstances, and should be allowed to die as the courts have determined she would wish. But the conservative foundations, with their massive funding, have turned the Schiavo case into a war of attrition, where delay is victory.

They have met defeat in the U.S. Supreme Court. But they won't give up, and they have the cash it takes to out-gun Michael Schiavo on every front. It is going to take yet more judicial courage to ensure that the rule of law prevails over big money. That will require Judge Greer to reject the latest round of delaying motions, and the Florida Court of Appeal and Supreme Court to back him up.

Of course,this article was published before the recent Congresional and Presidential intervention and before today's ruling. But, if nothing else, it reveals some intriguing details about HOW the right goes about organizing and funding the promotion of its agenda. It seems to be a sort of hierarchical structure: the heavy-duty foundations (with very rich and powerful finaciers), such as the Scaife Foundation,at the top. These foundations then channel their resources through charitabale organiztions which employ wonderful sounding euphemisms like "Philanthropic Convention" to mask their insidious aims. These organiztions,in turn,
finance the right-wing lawyers and pseudo-scientists who testify in particlar cases.
My question is: when is the American left going to learn from these people? Or, at least, realize that the fight is always directed from the bottom but financed from the top, and therefore we should, perhaps, direct our efforts at both elements?



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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
23. If you are going to post pictures post more recent ones.She probably looks
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 02:21 PM by BrklynLiberal
worse than this by now.


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deek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. your point being?
What? She's not "pretty"? Makes the decision to starve her because her life isn't worthwhile easier?
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Modem Butterfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. It's a more accurate representation of her
It doesn't make anything easier or more difficult for those of us watching this whole affair, since we don't really have anything to do. But it is a more accurate representation of Terri's current state. I think posting the very old, very healthy pictures of Terri is an attempt to make people think a healthy woman who just happens to have a brain injury is being allowed to die, and that's simply not the case here.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. No..my point being that you can more accurately see what her
quality of life is..and how she has deteriorated. Her brain is liqiud. She cannot even swallow. Her abilities at this point are less than those of a newborn child, without the potential that they have for growth. In fact, as time goes by more and more of her brain will be replaced by spinal fluid.
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. That is a beautiful picture of Terri and Mrs. S...its a keeper
But Terri is no longer there, she is in limbo, in between here and heaven...let her go home, her parents will be with her soon, if you believe in that sort of thing. It is unethical to keep Terri in limbo artificially-indefinately...and that is what it will come to.

Death is a part of life. No need to fear it. If you have strong faith, it is but a door to another realm. You only show your hypocrisy by fighting this hard to avoid the unavoidable.
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
25. On the Glenn Beck radio program today
Beck had on a psychiatrist who argues that Mark Schiavo has a classic Scott Peterson/O. J. Simpson personality. There is interview evidence that he controlled and abused Terri. He would check her odometer, alienate her from friends and family, etc. He has EVERY one of the warning sign traits of an abusive mate. Terri's friend has testified that Terri was considering a divorce when she "somehow" was deprived of oxygen to her brain that left her in this state. Let's not forget that doctors also found evidence of broken bones, and her family has revealed that Terri sometimes sported bruises.

Beck replayed a radio phone call from a couple of years ago by the first woman to date Michael Schiavo after the "accident". She said Michael told her that when Terri would hear Michael's voice when he went to visit her, Terri's head would turn toward the door, and that she would cry real tears when he would leave.
This former girlfriend also said Michael stalked her after their breakup, and that he was a cruel and controlling man.


WHY should this man get to make the decision to end her life when there are still doubts as to WHAT REALLY HAPPENED?
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
36. He didn't make this choice, he asked the Court what was best for Terri
They made the ruling, and Michael has no control over it...try reading the facts and stop spreading crap around. Character assassination when all other arguments fail?
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Crankie Avalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
43. Glenn Beck? GLENN BECK???
There's a reputable, truthful source. A guy who is really grounded in reality, along with his fans. :puke:

Sarcasm off.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #25
47. I don't know who the fuck "Glenn Beck" is, but whatever you
heard is a pack of lies.

Please, stop listening to and believing this shit.

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Crankie Avalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. Glenn Beck is a rightwing hate radio thug...
...with all the honesty and regard for truth telling that that ilk usually has.

Frankly, I'm shocked any good faith DU member would cite him in any fashion other than one of contempt.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:38 PM
Original message
How come none of this came up during the 19 court cases before?
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 02:41 PM by BrklynLiberal
Doesn't it strike you as a little weird that all of this is hitting the media now..when the RW fundies are trying to make a case?
How come these people did not testify at the malpractice suit that was brought and won by Michael against the doctor who did not correctly diagnose the bulimia that brought on the heart attack that caused the original brain damage? One would think that the insurance company would have wanted that testimony to come out. How come Michael lived with Terri's parents for the first four years that Terri was under treatment?
How come he has turned down millions to walk away from her?

EDIT:This is a response to that Glen Beck crap...
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
51. Some issues
First of all her condition is one that is deteriorating. The damage to her brain initially was not as bad as it is now. The vast majority of her cerebral cortex has turned to liquid over the years. It is now in such a deteriorated state that there is not enough left to create a mind.

At one time there may have been enough for some semblence of a mind to have existed. But that has long since passed. Where once she may have had enough awareness to react to others and even cry there is now just liquified goop. She is dead. Dead in the only meaningful way we can count. Her mind is gone.

As to how she came to be in this condition she had an eating disorder. Through this she had a heart attack. This caused damage to her brain which placed in her this condition. It was not an accident.

The family despises Mark. They are spreading rumors about him. They are trying every thing and anything to preserve the carcass of their daughter in a saddly mistaken belief that she is still alive. It is a tradgedy and such innuendo about the man that loved her is just adding to it.

She is dead. Her brain is goo. There is a deceiptful and concerted effort to discredit those that want to let her go. It is sick.
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
28. what's this "we" shit?
"we" ain't killing anybody.

and the woman is already dead. this is a personal matter for the parties concerned.
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
33. give me a fucking break
she died 15 years ago. and nobody is killing anybody. i only hope I am as lucky if i ever am in that state.

fuck that. and frankly, why do YOU care?
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. matcom, I want to learn to talk like you.
People never seem to take my username seriously enough. Good point.
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. don't talk like me
you are too nice and i have a potty mouth :D
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. Because I think he's getting away with murder
and I think the decision should be made by her PARENTS, those who LOVE her, not by the man who has snce fathered a child with another woman.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Operative word there...you "think". You don't know, because you don't
know him...and the travesty of it all is none of us should know about this case.
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. What is a marriage? One that leaves parents and joins with the other and
become one flesh...bibically speaking...Terri is not the property of her parents. They gave her to Michael in matrimony. What god hath joined together let no man put assunder...remember that phrase?

What is Terri a trinket to put up for auction on eBay? What about TERRI? She is in limbo here. A political pawn now days.
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. Dupe
Edited on Wed Mar-23-05 02:38 PM by DearAbby
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #41
52. Oh you are the one with the argument...about the OTHER WOMAN...
Michael should have sliced his wrists too and die with Terri Crowd....OOOOOOOoooo The you play gotta pay crowd eh? Michael took care of his wife, still is, and moved on with his life....Has God placed an ad in the Newspapers for a Judge?


Judge not lest ye be judged.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
34. "Love is an electromagnetic energy"
Hoooo-kay.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
38. Love is an electrochemical reaction within the brain
which means Terri Shiavo cannot feel love because her brain is gone and has been replaced with spinal fluid.

BTW, the electrochemical reaction in the brain we call love is not dissimilar to the reaction when one ingests large quantities of chocolate.
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
39. Your flamebait post
is nothing but new age claptrap, and a complete waste of bandwidth. I feel cheapened for having bothered to respond to it.
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #39
55. Hardly a flame...There are true blue Democrats like me who feel this way
I have always agreed with pretty much 99% of the ideas I have read at this site, so I thought I'd post another democrat's views so you'd know that it is not just right-wingers who feel this way.

And, if her brain is "mush" how is it that she can open her eyes at a doctor's request?

Shouldn't we err on the side of LIFE??

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fleabert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
40. they love her enough to treat her like a doll, disrespect her wishes,
parade her body like a freak show, and I think they are sick.

they need to let go. their daughter died a long time ago, all they have been loving on is the body.
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guinivere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
44. What utter crap..
My dad has been dead since '82. I had to decide. It was time for him to go.
I loved my dad every minute he was here, and I still love my old man. Love for someone doesn't die because they are gone from the earth.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
48. Forcing life on a human being in a vegetative state is NOT love.
Disregarding a human being's wish to be "let go" rather than artificially FORCED alive in such circumstances is NOT love.

Perpetually denying the fact that a court of law spent 7 years to reach the conclusion that a human being in a vegetative state had expressed a desire NOT TO BE ARTIFICIALLY KEPT ALIVE is NOT love.

Constantly making shit up and throwing out obnoxious allegations against others in order to fulfill one's selfish desire to keep another human being's body alive through artificial means in spite of the fact that human being has no freedom, no liberty, no joy, no feeling, no independence, no capacity to BE alive,...is not only NOT love,...it's just plain cruel.

WHERE IS THE LOVE?
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Lone Pawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
50. Logically invalid statement.
So we have Love implies Life.
And we have Kill Life implies Kill Love.

However, my grandfather is clearly dead. I also still love him. That would imply that he is still alive.

Moreover, I loved him at the time of his death. However, you say that where love exists, life exists. Therefore, he obviously could not have died. However, he is dead. Therefore, love does not necessarily imply life.

Moreover, electromagnetic fields are no more equal to love than they are equal to any thought or any feeling. Feelings are comprised of fields. Not the other way around.

Finally, our hearts are incapable of emotion. That's obvious.

Your entire post is worthless and incorrect statements. Ordinarily such poetic flourishes are acceptable, but you're attempting to justify a real-world course of action on theories which hold no truth in the real world.

Finally, if love is, as you claim it is, electromagnetic fields, we could not destroy 'love' if we tried. Until the heat death of the universe, we will have 'love.'
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-05 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
54. Locking
Flamebait.
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