BFEE wants to sell a bunch of F-16s to India AND Pakistan. Good idea?

[Wonk]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0503/22/ldt.01.html

(snip)

Tonight, the White House is considering the allowance of the sale of F-16 fighter jets to two countries it once banned from buying U.S. weapons. India and Pakistan, two of the world's most recent nuclear powers to emerge are now in the market for fighter jets. This could be the most controversial military contract in years and critical to saving thousands of American jobs, as Barbara Starr now reports.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): India and Pakistan, bitter military rivals, both now want to fight fighter aircraft. If they select the F-16, it could mean thousands of jobs and billions of dollars for Lockheed Martin and the American aerospace industry.

The U.S. had banned weapon sales to both India and Pakistan because both tested nuclear weapons. But now, senior Bush administration officials say the White House is actively considering rewarding these vital allies on the war on terror.

(snip)

India wants to buy 125 aircraft, an $8 to $10 billion dollar deal with several international contenders. Russia's MiG-29, Sweden's Gripen, and France's Mirage are all in the running.

As a result, Pakistan is renewing its longstanding request to buy at least two dozen F-16s. But to ensure regional stability, analysts say no U.S. aircraft would be sold with the capability to carry nuclear bombs.

more... (not much though)

HEY! LOOK OVER THERE! TERRI SCHIAVO TERRI SCHIAVO TERRI SCHIAVO!!!! :eyes:

[LeftyMom]

1. Arming both sides of a conflict is a bit too Andrew Undershaft for me. nt

[JanMichael]

14. OMFG! A "Major Barbara" reference!

Very nice, thanks:-)

[evil_orange_cat]

2. I couldn't find that in the link you proved...

Where is the story in the link? I want to quote this on another site.

[Wonk]

4. Scroll down about a third of the page. nt

[evil_orange_cat]

6. okay thx, I'm a retard ROFL

;)

[Swamp Rat]

3. Boo!!!

[proud_dem]

13. Swamp Rat that is a great pic !

[Swamp Rat]

15. dank u. n/t

[HysteryDiagnosis]

5. How else are we going to have

"good targets" in India and Pakistan... (shades of Dumbsfeld) how else are we going to have "countries of interest" who have the ability to deliver WMD with supersonic jets.... how else are we going to keep the wars going if we don't arm everyone and then bitch because we did? I mean, who cares if our schizophrenic foreign policy sucks canal water?

[me b zola]

21. You summed it up pretty well

eom

[etherealtruth]

7. Will they deliver to Kashmir?

[HawkerHurricane]

8. Silly Statement

"As a result, Pakistan is renewing its longstanding request to buy at least two dozen F-16s. But to ensure regional stability, analysts say no U.S. aircraft would be sold with the capability to carry nuclear bombs. "

Any airplane can carry a nuclear bomb, if the bomb doesn't weigh more than the plane can carry. F-16's (Fighting Falcons) can carry medium sized bomb loads; if they can get thier nukes under 3000lbs, they can deliver them.

[TheWraith]

17. Getting nukes under 3,000 Lbs. is supposed to be rather hard, but...

An F-16's maximum payload is about 14,000 pounds. Possibly more, if you're talking the newer Block 40s, but I'm guessing that we're not going to sell them the good stuff.

Out of curiousity, given the rather unstable nature of Pakistans government, does it occur to anyone else that these might be pointed back at us one day?

[HawkerHurricane]

20. Maximum payload...

is how much it carries in total weight, including fuel and all. The 'hardpoints' (places where you attach things to the plane) are limited to 3000lbs (iirc).

And you are right, there's no telling who they'll be used against. I remember being shot at by American made F-4 Phantoms firing American made missiles...
(in the Persian Gulf, during the 1980's... Iran had a lot of American made equipment)

[TheWraith]

23. Right, I was just about to clarify on fuel vs weapons.

I had temporarily forgotten that the standard listed weight is for an *empty* plane.

As I understand it, though, the centerline pylon(s) can hold more than 3000 pounds when used together. Technically two hardpoints, I belive, but if you distribute the weight between then they could be (theoretically) adapted to carry a weapon.

'Interesting' would probably be the wrong word for your experience--glad you made it through all right. All the more reason to keep our toys to ourselves.

[HawkerHurricane]

24. Yes, you're right...

I forgot that they could 'link' two hardpoints (the two centerline or the two under each wing) and then carry something heavier than the 'official' 3000lbs. A good machine shop could probably cobble up something that could carry 5000lbs that way... and if you didn't want the plane and had a suicidal pilot, you could have a 'nuclear kamikaze'...

The airplane that attempted to hit us was 'sold' to Iran when they were 'friendly'... and we were propping up the Shah. When they overthrew him, they kept the equipment... and then someone went and sold them parts and missiles which they then turned around and launched at U.S. warships (no hits scored). Thanks, Ollie. Treason is a hanging offense, except to Republicans, than you get to run for Senate.

[Octafish]

18. Cheney already sold them the technology.

http://www.underreported.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1275

Nice people, that BFEE.

[bpilgrim]

9. CNN: Defense firms see globalization benefits

<snip> He said U.S. "sabre-rattling" over the European Union's plan to lift an arms embargo against China could result in a harmful backlash, and could force Britain to look more toward European companies for partnerships than the United States.

Mike Turner, chief executive of Britain's BAE Systems, told the same conference that U.S. security, regulatory and protectionist impediments prevent closer ties between the United States and its closest ally, Britain.

BAE, already the Pentagon's 12th biggest supplier, is in the process of acquiring U.S. defense contractor United Defense Industries (Research), which would elevate it to the No. 8 spot. <snip>

But he said laws requiring U.S. authorities to approve any transfer of information between BAE's U.S. and British operations hampered efforts by the two countries to make their military equipment function better together. <snip>

more...
http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/22/news/fortune500/defense_companies.reut

:hi:

peace

[unhappycamper]

26. re: globalization

[TheWraith]

10. Well, it's not like the Bushes haven't played both sides before. NT

[bluestateguy]

11. Stupid idea

Arming pakistan is a dumb ass idea: a nation who's military is full of Al Qaeda inflitrators and where there is at least a realistic chance of that government being overthrown and replaced by fundamentalists.

Nor should we be arming India either, as that only raises the stakes in the India Pakistan standoff.

[da_chimperor]

12. So does that mean they're selling the nuke-ready kits separately?

:shrug:

[Octafish]

16. It's good for the owners of General Dynamics AND for the BFEE.

As for the rest of the world, it's not so good, especially if Pakistan and India decide to start a nuclear rumble. Who knows? Maybe Israel gets the ziggy. Next thing you know China and Russia get in the act and then America. Pretty soon the only ones living on planet Earth are the members of the BFEE, safe in their underground bunkers, secret jungle hideaways and Swiss mountain redoubts. Oh yeah, the cock-a-roaches, too.

[signmike]

19. It's not as if we'd start a war with, oh...say...Germany and sell

weapons to them during the ordeal, arming and killing on both sides. Oh, wait. Never mind.

On the other hand - I'm confused. We outsource jobs to India. But we sell them airplanes made here? Or will we outsource those jobs. too? Then if Pakistan gets any, they'll have to buy them from ... India? But we won't let them have the angle iron contraption that hangs a nukie underneath - they'll have to figure that part out their own selves. That'll show them.

If everybody in the world has U.S. F-16 fighters, how do they tell the good guys from the bad guys in an air fight? Do the bad guys fly a skull & bones flag or . . . uh. . . oh no, that's US with the S&B!

[flordehinojos]

22. They must be kidding!!!

[HysteryDiagnosis]

25. From your link..... about halfway down....

>>SEN. JAMES INHOFE (R), OKLAHOMA: The weapons China is investing in include cruise missiles, submarines, long-range targets, acquisitions systems, specifically cutting edge satellites, unmanned aerial vehicles, the advance SU-30s and 35s.<<

Anybody know when the terrorists are going to have the hardware and equipment that warrants any nation needing all of this crap??? I thought that perhaps the terrorists were going to take over a rather large democracy that posesses a HUGE military arsenal or something.... I could be wrong, but it is a possibility....

[Wonk]

27. kick