Are we EVER going to win anything again? I need to know now because

[efhmc]

I feel my life being chipped away on a daily basis and hope is having a harder and harder time rearing its lovely head?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. No. Just expect the worst.

That way you'll not be disappointed.

[efhmc]

2. I am too old to be an ostrich but I am going to try to learn some new

habits.

[Vinca]

3. I'm old, too. Tell me about the habits.

If I get any more depressed over the way this country is going I'll be nose diving off one of the local bridges.

[efhmc]

4. No internet, no newspapers, no radio, no TV and no looking at

bumper stickers. Gardening, letter writing to friends about recipes and children, listening to books on tape and classical CDs only. Totally immersion in denial. No more precinct chair, no more Dem meetings, no more false hope for Texas and the nation.

[Vinca]

19. Sounds good . . . makes sense . . . but once you're hooked on

giving a damn it's hard to walk away. The past 2 days I've told myself to ignore the nasty computer, don't buy the paper and watch anything but news on television. It worked well, don't you think?

[FreedomAngel82]

25. I know how that is

But since I'm also in college having something to keep my mind busy also helps and sleeping and working on music and things like that. It's good to stay in the know but also take a little time away to re-energize and come back ready for the good fight. :) You don't want to over load yourself.

[concord]

28. Your plan worked for me after the election

For a couple of months, I stayed away from all news sources and got into reading history and philosophy. I rediscovered jigsaw puzzles and good conversation. I nurtured my body and my soul until I was ready to join the fight again.

I am back with a better perspective, more energy & balance, and a renewed determination to see this through, no matter how long it takes.

It's important to walk away and recharge. This fight's been going on for a very long time and will keep going on.

Take a break. Rediscover the joy in life so you know what you're fighting for. Avoid negativity and keep the faith.

Peace.

[efhmc]

32. I actually have been reading more (nonpolitical books, that is) and

starting doing crossword puzzles again. I have real work I am sort of doing now but I need the life support of DU. Where else do I get such good advice and thoughts and liberal ideas? That is why I came here in the beginning (after the election of 2002) and why I will never be able to leave, but sometimes there is just TOO much information.

[concord]

36. I had to leave DU

I hung in as long as I could, but the information overload was here too. I needed a kind of "retreat" from all of it.

It's been nice getting back into it here. I'm impressed with those who've been able to keep it up through it all. It was just costing me too much serenity, and without serenity, my whole life suffers.

The peace and happiness that came during the news blackout was WONDERFUL and is STILL with me, even after being back in the fray for over a month now.

I'm not saying you should leave DU, especially if your soul is fed here, but if on balance it is disrupting your peace of mind, try to step away for a day or two and see what happens. DU is growing and will be here when you get back.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

5. There's no possibility for any consensus in our fractured party

we fracture on women's rights
we fracture on nominees
we fracture on minority rights
we fracture on labor rights
we fracture on the rights of gay people
we fracture on freemarketeering
there is no program
there is no platform
there is no vision with which to align
there is no possibility for consensus
we are as conquered a nation as any other.

Just fucking find joy in surviving because that is all you get IF you get it.

I, personally, find joy in harm coming to the people who were foolish enough to vote for these assholes...no matter what my suffering may be in life, it will always be offset by the fact that it was not brought about by my complicity or permission. I will take great joy, however, in watching people who thought an embryo was more important than their own children's education, healthcare or democracy suffer when they do..and they will.

[efhmc]

33. It seem much more important to those Dems who vote with the

repukes to go with the power than to represent the people.

[bananas]

11. I concur

LOL, Bush hasn't disappointed me yet.

[jimmy47nyc]

6. if we cant defeat DIEBOLD...

we cant win.Next year NYS must comply and allow electronic voting or lose millions in federal money so,with that in mind I worry.Computer geeks are preparing the "06'hack"as we speak.How do we defeat cheats?
:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :hi: :hi: :dem:

[Eric J in MN]

29. New York State can buy opticals-scanners with

one special machine for the handcicapped per polling place.

Minnesota is sticking with optical-scan ballots, and will probalby have one AutoMARK Voting Machine per polling place in 2006.

My article on the AutoMARK:
http://www.moveleft.com/moveleft_essay_2005_01_18_voting_rights_tuesday_i_went_to_a_demonstration_of_the_automark.asp

[efhmc]

37. Surely there is liberal, super duper brain out there with a solution.

Okay, there now did you see that, hope rising again. Will I never learn?

[KG]

7. don't look for help from the dem party on important social issues

and you won't be disappointed.

[ArkDem]

8. You must leave now, take what you need, you think will last.

But whatever you wish to keep, you better grab it fast.
Yonder stands your orphan with his gun,
Crying like a fire in the sun.
Look out the saints are comin' through
And it's all over now, Baby Blue.

The highway is for gamblers, better use your sense.
Take what you have gathered from coincidence.
The empty-handed painter from your streets
Is drawing crazy patterns on your sheets.
This sky, too, is folding under you
And it's all over now, Baby Blue.

All your seasick sailors, they are rowing home.
All your reindeer armies, are all going home.
The lover who just walked out your door
Has taken all his blankets from the floor.
The carpet, too, is moving under you
And it's all over now, Baby Blue.

Leave your stepping stones behind, something calls for you.
Forget the dead you've left, they will not follow you.
The vagabond who's rapping at your door
Is standing in the clothes that you once wore.
Strike another match, go start anew
And it's all over now, Baby Blue.

[efhmc]

14. Nice poem/song. Where is it from?

[The River]

24. Bob Dylan nt

[rzemanfl]

35. Now I feel really, really, really old. n/t

[jpgray]

9. Conservatives have been in much worse positions in the past

Look how dominant they've become now. Such change is possible, therefore we need to swing it our way.

[maxsolomon]

10. we will win when EU invades

& the disembodied head of poppy bush is finally killed.

so, about 2173.

[efhmc]

17. Nice to know it will finally happen.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

12. Actually, not until we get our shit together...

We're gonna keep losing.
Duckie

[CBHagman]

13. Yes, we are.

Repeat after Gandhi:

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

Read a wee bit of history. Are you going to let thousands of years of oppression, assassination, slavery, subjugation of women, religious bigotry, and just plain ignorance stop you from working on, say, environmental issues or women's rights just because some clown is crowing about the vote going his way this week?

Don't you think people were depressed when unions were busted, leaders were assassinated, the cops and police dogs fell upon the civil rights marchers, activists were imprisoned, and so forth? If they'd sat around wailing, "Oh, we're always losing!" where would we all be today?

I hate to admit it, but Kipling was right: Triumph and disaster are both imposters. You can't rest on one and wallow in the other.

And please avoid pessimists. There is always someone around who will tell you you won't get the job, your cancer is probably coming back, your stock is going down, your candidate is going to lose, your kids are turning out badly, you'll never meet someone to date/marry, etc., etc. Run like hell if you meet one of them.

:bounce:

[efhmc]

18. Thanks for the words of hope and wisdom. It's hard now but if we don't

fight, it will just be harder for our children and gchildren.

[applegrove]

15. It will be a long, hard slog and you will win again. And that will be

a feeling like no other.

Take up gardening if it is too much. Save your strength and your heart for the election battles to come. The good news is that these asshole stole policy from liberals so it looks like the Repuke policy of destabilizing democracies around the world is sort of over. The bad news is that the tribalism that keeps people out of power is being built in your own country. So don't fall for hating your neighbor.

And be happy you have a soul connected to your body. The others will live anxious lives going from win to win to win to win... never once sitting down somewhere and saying... life is amazing, love is amazing, people are amazing .. how lucky I am. They will never find what they are looking for... you already have.

[concord]

42. "don't fall for hating your neighbor"

I love this!

Great message.

[applegrove]

52. Bumper Sticker?

"Don't Fall for Hating Your Neighbor!"

[concord]

55. Or a good sig line

efhmc isn't reading bumper stickers right now ;)

[wildflower]

16. We've had one win

This is from a previous post. I had heard Bill Scher on the Majority Report and he felt we really needed to get the word out on it.

__________________________________________________________________
"Dems have won 1st legislative victory ("Clear Skies Initiative")"
Posted by wildflower

Spread the word!

They were just talking about it on the Majority Report.

ON EDIT: It was Bill Scher; he said this is the first victory for the Dems since the start of W's second term.

Something to celebrate anyway, especially after the bankruptcy vote.

From http://www.liberaloasis.com :

Another reminder of what Dems can accomplish when they stand together.

Hopefully, the party will do all it can to spike the ball on this first legislative victory in Dubya’s second term, and highlight which party is the defender of the public well-being, and which is the shill for irresponsible corporations.

So far, there doesn’t appear to be any PR effort to crow, not even any posts on official party websites. That can and should change before the week is out.

If Dems can’t properly claim victory when they get the chance, they won’t build a record of accomplishment that will bolster their political capital as it drains the GOP’s.

-wildflower

[HockeyMom]

22. Backlash

I do believe these things run in cycles, even though in a little over half a century that I have been alive, this is the most radical far right we have ever been. They make Nixon look like a boy scout.

But I DO believe that, once the majority of the American public see THEIR everyday lives being affected and smashed by the neocon/fundie agenda, there WILL be a backlash. I just hope we can salvage what remains after they have implemented their agenda.

[efhmc]

34. They seem to be so brainwashed that I don't know how that is going to

happen.

[Johonny]

20. What's gonna be left to win?

Who's gonna want to run this country when these guys are done with it in 4 years.

[efhmc]

21. Interesting thought but I am still willing to be part of that job if we

have the chance.

[FreedomAngel82]

23. Here's what I think

I think it will take a lot of work and a lot of people getting angry at the Bush administration. Also we'll have to get rid of the voting machines. Even with a paper trail people can still hack into the computers and change the outcome and people can still easily dismiss the paper trails. I think it will just take a lot of republicans to rise up and be mad at Bush and for us to get our message out there. Remember the republicans have been waiting for this term for years so they've been planning for everything so I doubt they'll be going down without a fight. It could get ugly. From one of my favorite Jesse Jackson quotes: "Sometimes it gets dark but morning is on the other side. Stick your chest out and hold your head high. Keep hope a live." It might not be exactly right but you get the jist.

[Jesus Saves]

26. Social Security

[rzemanfl]

38. Look at all the crap that is coming in under most people's radar

while the Social Security stalking horse gets all the attention.

A successful fight so one is not robbed by one's own government is not "winning."

[efhmc]

44. To me it is a victory when we protect any right or freedom from the

repukes' gutting knife.

[rzemanfl]

46. We shouldn't have to be protecting something we have been

paying into for years (in my case 41).

[efhmc]

50. Well, you and I and the others here know that but some don't seem to

be getting the message.

[against all enemies]

27. "Did we give up after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?" NO

[Catch22Dem]

30. HAHAHAHA

I use that all the time. I always get some morAn who says, "uh...that was them japs..." I'm wondering what cave they've been living in!

[Lisa]

39. that's perfect! You sound like Bush rallying the troops!

Just like when the Continental Army rebelled against King Louis!

[Orsino]

31. There will be a few more little victories...

...before it all falls apart. Money has already won, and doesn't really care, in the long run, about occasional "wins" by liberals. The outrage it stirs in its stooges over liberal excesses is entirely artificial, but it serves the larger goal: one-party rule compltely subject to the dictates of the yachted class.

[rzemanfl]

40. I have never been so deviod of optimism in my entire fairly

long life. Last night I had a ton of "urgent action" e-mails, I just ignored them, I am tired of urgent calls to action that result in nothing but "we tried" messages in the end. This country probably deserves what it is going to get. I am caring less and less with each preposterous event, Paul Wolfowitz to head the World Bank? Why not? Life has become nothing but a bad dream. Am I the only person who finds themself sleeping more because things suck so bad when I am awake?

[efhmc]

43. Is it restful sleep? If so it may be a great way to avoid much of this

mess?

[rzemanfl]

47. Pretty much, although I have started to have political nightmares.

The other night I dreamt that Roe v. Wade was overruled. At least I hope it was a dream, it was, wasn't it? A bad dream I mean.

[efhmc]

49. Coming closer every day, I fear.

[n2mark]

41. If we walk away

than shrub and his friends win. That is what they want us to do.

Yes, I get depressed with the news and often with DU, but if I give up the neocons win. I can't let them do this to me or to you.

The progressives are doing great work, I can't turn my back on them.

[rzemanfl]

48. Want to try something under the radar? Your turn. n/t

[mordarlar]

45. I fear that we let our chance to stop them pass us by. Now it is a matter

of working to get the truth out to those who simply do not know it and plan for how to handle the worst.

I am studying up on homestead and survival practices. I could feasibly make an on site power supply at this point, grow and can food under difficult circumstances, find or create a safe water supply, smoke meat, create a semi permanent shelter alone. I have been introducing these things to my children over the past year as well. This summer we are planning a survival camping trip. Dramatic? Probably. But be prepared is beginning to look like VERY GOOD ADVICE.

If nothing else it creates a productive area for focus, which helps to keep sane.

[salin]

51. short term - not much... long term - probably a great deal.

These folks are so emboldened that they are no longer acting with any constraints. As such - they are pushing boundary after boundary on issues that turn people away from them. They are now hitting issue after issue that has an impact upon peoples' daily lives. In the short term - the numbers are absolutely against us in Congress (and - obviously - in the exec. branch). Had bush and the house kept doing incremental damage that they could keep spinning - it might just mean the end of the bush team - but those backing them and their cronies in congress still able to spin... and continue their electoral success in congress even if not in the exec. branch. However they are getting more and more offensive... and it will get harder for those who are barely paying attention to just put in on the administration. They are very possibly going to push so hard that they destroy their own party. Remember most Americans are rather moderate on issues. They can only explain away so much.. and now that the laws / policies are likely to touch home in more and more direct ways... the veneer of moderation and rationality which the bushteam and repub congress have been able to spin and maintain through the media will be harder to swallow. They are pushing to the point where cognitive dissonance will be harder to dissuade through pretty media stories/images/rationalizations. In the long term - I predict there will be great hope. The big problem/danger is how much damage they do to our country and society before the big rejection happens.

[OTownGuy]

53. Get our OWN machines!

Why dont we just a Dem version of Diebold? Get our OWN machines and have some Dem hackers switch the votes!!? We should be able to play as dirty as they.

[salin]

58. IMO, we should play as aggressively

but not dip to illegality - lest the entire public become so cynical per democracy that it ceased to exist. Would rather that we are on the other end... ready to pick up the shattered pieces than we are all destroyed in the process.

[w4rma]

54. The Republicans do not bring anything up for a vote without having counted

the votes beforehand. Therefore, we will not win another vote until at least 2006+, except for cases where Dems are able to ambush them.

[oxbow]

56. Part of it is learning how to fight dirty

Not giving up our morals, because that would make us no better than them, but being able to use stealth and subterfuge for instance to get a result.

Here's an idea I had a couple of nights ago in a dream: It is well documented how the Bush admin. manipulated the media in the run up to the war on Iraq. They hired PR firms to get their own pseudo scholars on the major media networks and say that Iraq had WMD's, sponsored terrorism, and anything else the public needed to hear to support the war. They gave these people scholarly sounding titles when they were just neo-con think-tank employees. They found Iraqi's who didn't like Saddam and organized them themselves into a professional-LOOKING resistance effort when no such thing existed. But the public doesn't know about any of this. I have an idea on how to give them a sorely needed lesson on media manipulation though.

If we could enlist someone who is fairly well-known to do exactly what the Bush admin did, but make it transparent enough that someone would eventually find out he was behind it, all the conservative media org's would jump on it, with the rest following suit. Then, with the spotlight on him, he could show that it was all an educational prank, and illustrate how our gov. did and continues to do the same thing to the public. With that great big media microphone on him for one instant, we would have a chance to make a real difference. It would severely injure the illusion that the major media has the most accurate news, as well as the one about how the intelligence failure in Iraq was no-one's fault. As far as I see, making a fake scandal is the only way to get access to the media in today's world. They love to jump on this sort of thing because the public loves scandals, but seldom follow the real news where it leads them.

So what do you think?

[efhmc]

57. How about getting our people to vote with us.

Wouldn't that be a good place to begin?

[mmonk]

59. We're a filibuster away.

Representative government is on the ropes if they go nuclear. They want a Supreme Court that can effectively end progressive government by being a veto power should Dems regain power and enact progressive legislation aim at requiring the states to do anything.

[efhmc]

60. Would you explain that go nuclear reference? I've seen it before

but have no clear idea of how it is being used.

[mmonk]

61. Here's their plan

http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oId=18074

[tom_paine]

62. That's like asking were the Nazis going to let the Social Democrats

back into power in Germany.

Simply put: No. It is not possible. The system is rigged, there is no Free Press in either Nazi Germany or Imperial Amerika with the integrity and independence toinvetsigate. No Law Enforcement with the balls to investigate the actions of THE PARTY in voter malfeasance.

Etc. Etc. Etc.

I do believe you are right about that, though I will be working for the Dems in 2006 and 2008 just in case we are wrong.

But I wouldn't count on it.

[Lost147]

63. No the, soon will come the rize of the machines, and the robots will rule

NT