theory/explanation in need of amateur or professional DU sociologists

[ragin_acadian]

what is the reasoning behind the surge in popularity with nascar, country music, and wine lately?

the only thing i can figure is that the country music and nascar has become some kind of "club" for white males that might feel threatened or insecure by the constant element of fear they see on tv ("minorities run amock", terrorism, whatever) thus they band together on these two uniquely caucasian (putting it nicely) forms of entertainment.

but the interest in wine is what i can't figure out - just seems too "yurpean" for the xenophobic pre-rich yuppie consumers that turning leaf and all the zinfandel ads you see on tv are being marketed to.

are these three items just coincidental, or maybe cyclical materialism/trendy populuxe, or am i just thinking too much?

[th2techdude]

1. Hmm.......

You should have added SUV's to the mix. Anyhoo, wine's been a popular beverage for years, so it's no surprise that the stuff's getting more popular (remember, studies have shown that white wine can reduce the risk of cancer).

Country music: Yeah. We have Toby Keith to thank for that one.

Nascar: Something that wastes even more fossil fuels every year. This phenomenon is such because despite "left turns all day," this "sport" is quite popular.

You may have hit a bullseye by pointing out the insecurity of bigots though. They're very conservative, and thus are afraid of change, but the world is rapidly changing before their eyes. Their routine is threatened.

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. You're right about NASCAR, but possibly not entirely right about

country music. NASCAR fans, when you get close enough to hear them, do make comments which make it apparent that they like their white island. Comments are generally along the Rush Limbaugh line of anti-minority and all kinds of anecdotes of how they lost their last job to a minority. The key is, that they use the hatefest to bond, which means that all kinds of other misinformation gets trapped in their echo chambers with no one to challenge them.

I'm not enitrely ready to give up on Country music. Yes, there are some songs that are pro-white right-wing ideals and anti-everyone else. But, I have to believe somewhere, the southerners I grew up with and respected, still exist.

As for the wine, find out of it's white or red. If red, it could be due to the benefits to the heart.

[ret5hd]

4. this might help explain nascar...(absolutely hilarious bigot)

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/audio/nascar.php

[ohio_liberal]

18. OMG

That was really something.

[ret5hd]

22. here's to hoping he had an aneurism...

:thumbsup: :nuke: :thumbsup:

[ragin_acadian]

8. i'm not insulting or insinuating anything about long term

consumers of those three things,

but it appears to me that there is a trend emerging because all three have become popular in the last two years or so.

what i'm trying to get at is the reason for their popularity - for instance: SUV popularity is attributed to hummers and the first gulf war, along with the security and feeling of wealth and power status you get from driving one. So then, why has watching cars go in circles gained popularity? Same thing with country music: why/what is the message catching on with consumers? - pre 2000, i probably couldn't have found anyone who would admit that they watched nascar
and listened to country music, so what has changed?

the heart and wine connection has been around for awhile, but i really don't recall wine being advertised on television that much before these last two years.

just some random thoughts. maybe too random.

[Wickerman]

3. Marketing

NASCAR has always (in modern day) been the largest attended live sport - they fought for years to get TV to accept it. Starting about Days of Thunder they aggressively promoted it.

Same with wine, always been a slew of wine drinkers, but with the discovery of of the Cali wines the marketing depts pumped it up.

Country music (or at least what passes for it today)? Inexplicable. Regression to the mean in nationwide IQ scores. :shrug:

Sometimes there isn't a solid sociological explanation - sometiems its just good ol' fashioned marketing. See example GW Bush. He is nothing without a marketing dept.

[ragin_acadian]

9. good point - marketing!

but what i'm trying to get at, is what is the message being marketed? why does it appeal?

you can market something all day long, but if there isn't a need or interest, no one will consume it. so why are these people consuming? what role is this fullfilling in their lives?

[Wickerman]

15. I agree, somewhat

THe whole Ashley Simpson phenom proves different, though. Ram it down our throats enough and we'll buy it.

But, ok, with NASCAR its the whole macho outlaw thing. Everyone is a good ol' boy - you could sit and have a beer with them. Jeff Gordon is hated by many a fan because (among other things) he is more urban than most drivers and didn't actually start in stock cars, he came from open-wheeled cars which is a little different game than NASCAR.

Wine? why does the marketing work? Maybe 'cuz you can feel sophisticated when you drink wine - even at 6$ a bottle.

Hell, who knows. A very interesting set of questions, though.

[ohio_liberal]

17. Not so

There are many drivers now who started in open wheel like Tony Stewart, Robby Gordon, and so on.

[Wickerman]

21. Yes, but Robbie Gordon has relatively little popularity, nor does Tony

and neither has the success. Hard to make a comparison. And, of course, there is the other part of the equation is that neither is seen as urban (for lack of a better word) as Jeff. The large majority of racers still come up through stockers or now trucks. Of 7 active Champs only Gordon and Stewart come from open wheel.

[ohio_liberal]

24. There's a significant difference in time spent

Jeff Gordon started the series full-time in 1993. Tony Stewart left the IRL and come to NASCAR in 1999. Robby Gordon didn't run full-time until 2001. I would argue that Tony Stewart has a significant fan base. You ever been to a race and seen all the orange 20's in the crowd?

[Wickerman]

25. No, never been to a race

but I still believe you are only considering one aspect of the discussion - Jeff, with his supermodel wife and less southern rural lifestyle has gotten alot of heat - he doesn't fit the mold. I have no interest in how pop any of them are except to say that Jeff doesn't fit the mold of a NASCAR boy. Tony has been a better fit - which is my thesis in the discussion anyway.

[ohio_liberal]

27. He's divorced

Brooke Gordon wasn't a supermodel, she was a former Miss Winston who kissed drivers when they won races. Ok, so leaving that all behind--

People don't hate Jeff Gordon because of his racing roots. That means little these days. The list of former open wheel drivers is long, starting with the very popular Ken Schrader. Fans hate Jeff Gordon because he wins, and wins a lot. People hate Rick Hendrick for many reasons, including the fact that he is a convicted criminal. They hate the Hendrick organization because of Rick Hendrick. They hate Jeff Gordon because he's whiny, phony, and races dirty. They hate him because he usurped the throne of Dale Earnhardt.

If it was just a matter of hating west coasters who don't live the southern lifestyle they would surely hate drivers like Kasey Kahne and Kevin Harvick. That isn't the case.

[Wickerman]

28. 'kay

Like I said, not really my argument. Super model, beauty queen, whatever. Arguing about stock car racing isn't really my deal but I can see you are quite passionate and knowledgable. I concede.

Again, popularity of a particular driver was not my point. Of course, for sport to be real popular there MUST be a villian - Gordon plays that role well.

I do, I admit, get a kick out of the Gordon haters. Particularly when it comes to dirty driving and comparisons with Saint Dale. Dale practically invited the term - amazing how a last lap death can exonerate you. Of course, his death actually brought more attention to the sport than any other single issue in the last several.

[ragin_acadian]

32. thanks,

yeah, the macho-ness makes sense, that's been the theme of chimpsters last five years.

[hfojvt]

19. I think the message is the same in all three of them

It is getting drunk, getting drunk, and getting drunk.
Why is getting drunk becoming more popular? Maybe because life has been getting harder - declining wages, loss of job security, loss of benefits, increases in the work week. The declining standard of living for the working class drives some to beer and others to the Bible. Another part of it is bonding - you have your drinking buddies and others have their church friends. The bible study, prayer meeting, Nascar (or wrestling) beer party is a way or excuse to get together with your "friends". Another way is to meet your "friends in low places" - your nearby country music bar.
"Mmmmmm, I love this bar."

[ragin_acadian]

23. wow,

good point. so it's kind of self imposed bread and circuses effect, maybe?

[hfojvt]

30. not totally self imposed

Miller, Budweiser, and Coors are, of course, sponsors of races and concerts, and who builds these speedways?

[H2O Man]

13. Great answer!

I agree 100%. I was going to try to answer in a similar vein, but you did it really well. I'd also say that, while I'm not by any means a "fan" of country music, some of the older stuff was pretty good. If you listen to the lyrics of some of the old Hank Williams songs, they hold up well. There is nothing on the current scene that comes close.

[Wickerman]

16. I really like old Hank

and I like a bunch of alt-country bands. But geez, that crap out of Nashville? Shoot me.

[liberalitch]

5. Stupidity and "Sideways"

well the wine thing can be attributed to the fact that most Americans won't jump on a trend until it's been judged "Okay."
Now Pinot Noir is popular because of the movie.... I don't like it... never did (more of a Cab, merlot or Zin girl... no blends please)

stupidity explains everything else

[BrklynLiberal]

6. Testosterone insecurity by those who feel threatened by anything that

in anyway implies that they are anything less than 101% the most masculine of men in the world. BIG cars, BIG cigars, BIG guns. IT is the root of all those self-loathing men, misogynistic men who are so terrified of ANYTHING that even faintly hints at femininity or {GOD FORBID!} homosexuality. If you check out the 14 points of Fascism, this is one of the prime principles. Men like Roy Cohn and J.Edgar Hoover, Hitler, Rush Limpball(Feminazis), O'Lielly(His felafel fantasies), have cashed in on this fear and loathing of all that is feminine to instill hate and fear in men, and to even drag some ignorant and self-loathing women along with them.(IE Condosleaza, Karen Hughes, Phyllis Schlafly, Dr. Laura and others of that ilk)
Part and parcel of this movement is the attempt to control and minimize the role and rights of women in society.
It is also a basic tenet of the fundamentalist, dominionist view of the world. Men dominate. Women merely serve.
For an interesting example of this, see the thread that was just posted
which contains a question about 2 examples which denigrated women.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3281201

Here is the image they aspire to(Well, the one on the left, NOT the oneon the right!!):

[LeftHander]

7. Media partly to blame...education....

The dumbing down of America has been happening for decades.

Televsion is a great example. it used to offer actual plays, music and other forms of the Arts....it was concieved as a way of bringing the Arts into the living rooms. Now it is mostly crap.

People are afraid and fear causes people to regress. 20 years of right wing talk radio has tottally rotted the middle class.

Music has been formulated and Clear Channel only presents music that comes from Nashville and Disney pop factories.

People are getting more selfish and are being told that progressives, gays, liberals and the educated are a threat to the "American way of life."


The right wing has defined the American way as my way or the highway. With us or against us. They have done a marveloous job of undermining all the advances in social jusctice gained over decades of struggle.

Greed, power and corruption rule America thanks to a slovently selfish, ignorant, bigoted populace. It is no wonder simple forms of entertainment are now vastly popular.

[jandrok]

10. I can maybe speak to the wine popularity issue.....

And I don't think that it's really wrapped up much with the other two. The wine industry has grown by leaps and bounds over the last decade or so because of the highly focused and targeted marketing efforts of the wine industry itself. Concurrent with that, there has been incredible growth in domestic production capacity due to the large number of regional vineyards and wineries that have started making and distributing wine. Imports have also grown as new, less traditional suppliers have entered the market. Witness the wealth of quality wines coming out of Australia and New Zealand.

A lot of effort has also been put into educating consumers and getting them to think of wine as a less "snobby" product and recast it as a healthy and flavorful drink for the masses.

You can usually get a really good bottle of wine for under $10.00 these days. It's no longer a drink for special occasions or parties. Food Network chefs pair wine with every dish they make. Wine magazines have become part of the scenery at checkout stands in supermarkets.

Craft beer is undergoing a similar makeover with the public. The craft beer industry grew at a healthy 7% pace last year, and you will see continued efforts there to expand market share as people discover flavorful alternatives to mass-produced soda-pop beer.

[ultraist]

37. Demographics of wine drinkers

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:DiZKhAdOYykJ:www.winexperience.com/selected%2520demographics%2520of%2520wine%2520drinkers.pdf+demographics+of+wine+drinkers&hl=en

Men 48.0% 19,661 43.4%
Women 52.0% 25,662 56.6%

Age 20-29 16.4%
30-39 22.4%9
40-49 20.3%
60-69 9.8%4,
70 plus 11.7%4

College Grad 14.9%
Post -grad Degree 7.3%5,943 13.1%

Married 57.3%
Own 70.2%
Rent 28.9%

Income Middle class (39k-89k)are the biggest wine drinkers
$40-50k 11.0%
$50-60k 9.6%4
$60-75k 11.1%
$75-100k 10.9%
$100-150k 8.4%
$150 plus 3.6%

I think Nascar is moving more into the middle class, with all of the new marketing. Same for country. Both used to be more of working class blue collar type interests.

[leftofthedial]

11. one glitch in theory one

country music is declining in popularity

CD sales, radio listenership and (for most acts) concert attendance is down. Fewer records are being cut and fewer of the ones that are cut are fully distributed or marketed. Fewer artists are being signed.

I do think the NASCAR phenomenon has a strong tribal bonding component.

Wine is an addictive, pleasurable consumabe. I think these come in and out of popularity cyclically. Beer, wine, spirits, drugs, wine, beer . . . I think the increase in ads represents push marketing by the industry trying to capitalize on a perceived vacuum (declining microbrew sales?) rather than the rise of a new demographic.

[ohio_liberal]

12. The NASCAR "market"

It's growing because it's being very cleverly marketed. It is already saturated in regards to white males. There's little growth to be had there. Females represented the largest growth for a time. Now they're going after the Hispanic market and hosted a Busch series race in Mexico two weeks ago, with the intent to bring in new hispanic fans. You should've seen it....the teams actually hired Hispanic drivers just for this one race so that the fans would fill the stands and watch it on TV. It really worked beautifully. NASCAR also introduced an outreach program to develop the talent of minorities. Part of it's mission is to MARKET NASCAR directly to blacks, hispanics, and females.

I wrote a diary about this on the dKos but sadly I can't link it because the site is down.

On edit: Ah, I think the site is working again. Here's my diary on the dKos. It mainly addresses the lack of diversity in the sport but it does touch on the marketing.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/7/134533/1033

[ultraist]

38. Good points! Demographics of NASCAR fans

http://www.thatsracin.com/mld/thatsracin/sports/special_packages/money/6673107.htm

They are 75 million strong.
About 60 percent are men, 40 percent women.

Nearly 60 percent are 44 years old or younger.

And, perhaps most telling, 42 percent of them earn $50,000 or more a year. (58% are at least middle class)

They are the fans of NASCAR.

NASCAR fans are spread through nearly all age brackets.

In fact, the percentage of fans in three age groups -- 18- 24 (11 percent), 25- 34 (21 percent) and 45-54 (19 percent) -- mirrors those of the U.S. population at large.

The biggest percentage of NASCAR fans - 26 percent – is between 35 and 44, which represents 21 percent of the U.S. population. Nine percent of fans are 65 or older.

When NASCAR first drew national notice it was predominantly a Southern sport and most races were held in the Carolinas, Florida, Georgia and Virginia.

Today, fans are broadly - and surprisingly quite evenly - distributed across the map.

Still, the largest group of fans remains concentrated in the South, roughly 38 percent.

And, not surprisingly, most of the Winston Cup series' races remain in the region, at tracks including those in or near Charlotte, N.C.; Atlanta; Bristol, Tenn.; Richmond, Va.; Daytona Beach, Fla.; Talladega, Ala., and Homestead, Fla.

The second-largest percentage of fans (24 percent) hails from the Midwest, home to some of Winston Cup's newest venues in Indianapolis; Kansas City, Kan., and Joliet, Ill.

The Northeast makes up the third-highest percentage (20 percent) and continues to be home to some of the series' most ardent fans, with tracks in Long Pond, Pa.; Dover, Del.; Loudon, N.H., and Watkins Glen, N.Y.

The West makes up the smallest percentage, at 19 percent, and is clearly the focus of NASCAR's most recent efforts to expand its fan base.

The Winston Cup series has added races in Las Vegas; Sonoma, Calif.; Fontana, Calif., and Phoenix since 1988. In addition, officials announced earlier this season that a second race date would be added at California Speedway in Fontana beginning in 2004.

Perhaps most enticing to sponsors and other advertisers is the sport's attractiveness to families and those families' brand loyalties. Through a detailed study in 2001, NASCAR found that among NASCAR fans, 40 percent have families with children under the age of 18.

****
NASCAR has broadend it's base by putting racetracks in more regions of the country and appealing more to the middle class. It used to be more of a Southern blue collar sport. It's become much more commercialized in recent years.

I think there is also a conservative cultural swing in the Middle class. So, it follows, that products that appeal to conservatives, have a broader appeal.

[Bridget Burke]

14. (Thinking back to Sociology classes....)

Prove there's correlation among these phenomena. And prove these are real phenomena. Where are the figures indicating these "surges" in popularity?

I'm not a big sports fan, but NASCAR has been around a long time. (I always preferred drag racing because it produced better art--but that was long ago.) Where are the numbers concerning its popularity growth? In comparison to other sports? Are other sport more "pure"?

Country music's popularity has been nosediving for years. The idiots who run Nashville have no love for true country music. They only put out what they think will sell but can't even do that right. The soundtrack for "O Brother" sold phenomenally; did Nashville begin releasing singles by Bluegrass & pre-Bluegrass artists? No. Talent-free Hat Acts & Teeny Sluts have been joined by Salutes to the Red White & Blue--the latest attempt to capture a shrinking market.

Wine drinking? How many vineyards sponsor NASCAR vehicles? Martha White (flour) is a new Partner/Sponsor of the Grand Ole Opry--not Murphy Goode Wines (free plug for makers of Liar's Dice Zinfandel!)

Some people like loud, messy sports. Some people like good country music, others like crap. Wine has been drunk for millenia.

[ragin_acadian]

20. i don't have any numbers to prove there is a phenomenon, because

i was inquiring as to why these things are getting popular. here is my reasoning for assuming they are getting popular.

"Nascar dad" - i had never heard this expression till about a year before the '04 election. if someone had said "nascar dad" to me in, say, 1995, i would have laughed until my sides hurt at the imagery it would have conveyed back then. now it seems to denote a segment of the population that has credibility. perfectly respectable people in my area put #3's on the back of their pickup truck, why? i dunno.

country music: where the hell did ashley simpson faith hill, and toby keith come from? never mind, don't answer that. somehow they made it on to a television; having done that, they obviously have a market, otherwise, tee-vee land would not be interested in it, and charmin/GM/ameritrade, etc. are willing to pay for an advertising spot on the program that aired anything to do with the two. i wasn't aware that interest in country music is plummeting. there seems to be more interest in my area than before, i'm hearing it more at stoplights, and more people are wearing cowboy hats. maybe i'm just noticing something completely isolated.

Wine: the grocery stores in the area are remodeling their stores to include more space for specialty wines, fermented grapes may have been around for a millenia, but up until now, winn dixie hasn't felt the need to add more shelving in their store for it. maybe it's because there is a renewed interest in wine.

i'm not implying that the wine is correlated to nascar or country music. just asking if anyone has some explanations.

[ultraist]

40. Country music sales were way up in 2003

excerpt: NYT article 2003
http://www.martystuart.com/ZArt-Misc-NYT-2-16-03.htm

As musicians and executives from the world of country music travel to New York this week for the Grammy Awards, at a time when their national profile and sales are way up, it's a sad and deflating paradox that they won't be hearing country music on New York radio. Mr. Stuart's quandary is one that has been facing them, as well as country fans, since last May, when WYNY-FM (107.1) switched from country to a Top 40 Spanish format, leaving New York without a country music station.

*****
Country music is broadening it's consumer base, as is NASCAR. More radio stations are being established and expanded marketing is being done in more regions. Also, a mainstream genre is developing.

Both NASCAR and Country music are becoming more popular. There is also a cultural conservative swing, thanks to Bush & co. in our society.

[forgethell]

26. "putting it nicely"???

What's wrong with the word "white"?? In fact, what's wrong with "white" people? Is there some way that they are deficient morally, intellectually, etc. from anybody else?

The still are the majority in this country, and as long as we sneer at them, hell, why should they vote for us?

[ragin_acadian]

33. well, i was writing about country music and nascar.

and was thinking "cracker" but decided that "uniquely caucasian" would be more appropriate.

don't get so damn defensive, there's nothing wrong with white.

[forgethell]

34. "cracker".

Would that be the white equivalent of some other words that would be banned in polite society?

[ragin_acadian]

35. not that i am aware of

[ultraist]

39. Cracker Fairs in FL, Graham, the self proclaimed, "proud cracker"

No, it's not a racial slur. Anyone from FL understands this. Whites use term. It was not coined by oppressors to demean an entire race.

[ragin_acadian]

44. Ultraist, thank you so much for all the research in your posts!

i'm still trying to figure out what i'm looking at, but what is odd, is that 58% of the fan base is middle class - what puzzles me is why nascar appeals to them - i understand that it is more commercialized, but the educated middle class should be more resistant/jaded to marketing than say, blue collar types. do they realize that what they are watching is basically distilled advertising going in a circle at 200 mph? do they know, or just not care? what is drawing them to the sport: the speed, the "clique-iness" - hmmm. with a female audience of 40%, could white machismo be the draw?

the move to mainstream for country music that you posted (#40) maybe this could be construed as middle and lower class cultural solidarity in a "country" subculture that praises rural-ism, and discourages interest in education or critical thinking? exemplified by the carefully crafted extreme makeover that our northeastern silverspoon blueblood draft dodging president ran on? maybe the macho solidarity is what is what is attractive to the country fans? just postulating.

the wine statistics (#37) - it looks like the nascar watching middle class might be swilling wine too, huh? that's what i was originally thinking, but was too lazy to look up the statistics - thanks again!

interesting stuff.

are you a FL native?

[Fleshdancer]

29. one theory regarding wine...

maybe people are looking at wine differently since the stories came out that a glass of red wine a day can reduce cholesterol and blood pressure and the antioxidants can help protect against heart disease and different kinds of cancers. Nothin' more fun than getting drunk for your health!

I'm thinking about the reasons why I love wine and I think part of it is the social pleasure. I love having friends over for dinner, opening a nice bottle of wine (or 3) and talk and have a good time. People don't share a bottle of beer or a cocktail, but you always share a bottle of wine. Another reason is because no two bottles of wine are exactly alike and the more mature my palate becomes, the more fascinating wine is to me. Then again, I'm just a sushi eating, liberal loving freak so what do I know. ;)

[AllegroRondo]

31. my theory on wine

drink popularity goes through cycles. microbrew beer was big in the 90's, then we saw martinis and mixed drinks surge in the early 00's, now wine is coming around. (and coffee is going through a similar up/down trend)

the upcoming generation of drinkers wants something new and different, something their parents DONT drink, but with enough 'retro' to make it cool.

[ultraist]

36. Maybe the people buying wine are not the NASCAR, country music consumers

Why do you think it's all one market? Maybe the wine market is a totally different demographic.

If it's not, it's probably due to the wine in a box, by the gallon, packaging/marketing.

[ragin_acadian]

41. yea, good point.

i should have thought my original post through a little more. still, it is interesting reading people's thoughts on wine.

[Lexingtonian]

42. yep, nostalgia

But it's a chic and trendy and status-conscious nostalgia. It has its own elites and such, and it is about that 85%+ white world these folks remember. And yes, the money matters.

Car racing is popular in the South because it used to be horse racing country. 'Country music' is a wierd hybrid of settler folk tunes (strongly Celtic and Anglosaxon roots to it) with style bits taken from Indian and black forms, gussied up with all the stuff taken from rock and 'Christian music'.

Wine is what people drink when opening beer bottles at the dinner table seems declasse.

Sociologically t's all about the wealthier Left Behind people doing some catching up on the yuppies, who went far ahead of them during the Eighties (but then fell back a certain amount during the Nineties since a lot of that was unsustainable). Complain about 'the yuppies' and then imitate them, that's the ticket.

[amjucsc]

43. I suspect it's mostly the coasts becoming more aware of the middle...

Country music has always been phenomenally popular in the country, especially in the red states (Garth Brooks sold more albums than any other musician/band during the 90s, narrowly edging out the Beatles...) The same goes for NASCAR. In the past Blue staters have mostly ignored these developments, but in the wake of the 2000 election (and perhaps due to other trends) they've become more aware of the horde of people living in between NY and the West Coast. They've always been there, but it's just recently that our radars have begun picking up such things.

I think Wine (and also Cigars) just appeal to Yuppie sentiments. It's a good way to put on airs.

[AP]

45. Years ago, record sales were recorded by having store owners report their

weekly numbers, and IIRC, it wasn't all record stores that reported.

In the '80s, the record industry switched to an automatic system which was much more accurate and included many more stores. The first chart done without the subjective influence of store owners and of the people who decided how to sample the sales was a shocker.

Country albums shot up to the top of the more accurate charts. Country music was incredibly popular all over the country despite it being largely ignored by marketing executives in CA and NY and despite not being pushed in the MSM. The record companies realized that there was gold in those hills and that's when you started to see way more country music syngeries outside of Hee Haw and outside of the south east.

I don't think so much that there's been a surge in popularity of nascar and country music. It has always been popular. I think that marketing of it has surged only because coastal snobbery has given way to economic reality -- there's profit to be made in things that are so popular that people loved them even when they weren't relentlessly plugged by the media. Certainly, the additional marketing probably increases sales, but I bet it's not a surge.

Now, the thing about Zinfandel (which I actually find cheesier than Nascar in terms of people trying to tell you who they are by telling you what they consume -- at least Nascar is entertaining, and Zinfendel isn't even a good-tasting wine) has to do with polarizing people.

When you polarize people, you drive them to (and consolidate them arrround) very predictable patterns of thinking (and consumption). So, when Madison Ave tells some people that they're Nascar and others that they're Zinfandel, it encourages people to rally themselves around those things, maybe even making them buy something they wouldn't otherwise buy just so they can prove they're not at the other pole, and it vacates the unpredictable middle ground, so that nobody wastes money trying to make and market those products. Like, what if you like Rally Car racing and prefer a Shiraz from Australia? No! No! No! You are either Nascar or Zinfandel!

[ragin_acadian]

46. aha, the polarization, that's a good argument maybe for the

"club" mentality explanation for why nascar and country have gotten so popular among the middle class lately - thanks!