I Found (Suspected Wisconsin Church Killer) Terry Ratzmann's Website

[Flammable Materials]

http://my.execpc.com/~traven/

Picture of the suspect:



I noted that someone from the church who was interviewed said he was into plants. So I did a little investigation and found a post from Terry Ratzmann that had to do with plants. I saw that his email address was at "execpc.com" and knew that personal webspace on that service matches the username portion of the email.

Irony Moment: The link at the top of the page that reads "Random Acts Of ... Photography".

Newsclip Edit: Neighbors said Ratzmann was a devout churchgoer and avid gardener who built his own greenhouse and shared homegrown vegetables with his neighbors. Shane Colwell, who talked to him regularly, called Ratzmann "so calm and so mellow."

"He brought me over a zucchini that was about foot-and-a-half long," Colwell told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. "We ate it for a week."

Colwell said Ratzmann raised trout and designed a system in which he used trout waste to fertilize his greenhouse plants - including tropical plants and Venus flytraps - then recycled the water back to the fish tank. He also built his own garage.

[NMDemDist2]

1. this man looks so kind and mellow

what the hell happened?

[neebob]

48. Sociopaths look like everyone else

Some of them put a lot of time and effort into convincing others they're kind and mellow and go around taking beautiful nature photographs and stuff like that. I was nearly ruined by someone that this guy reminds me of. I fully expect to see him on the news one day.

[hector459]

65. Notice how the MSM is NOT reporting round the clock on this as with the

killings in GA. I haven't even seen a photo of the suspect on any TV news. FOX keeps pretending to give updates on the story and after you hang around for the next three reports they have they mention this incident in passing giving nothing about the details.

Do you think the RW media has been warned not to give too much time to this story since the killer was a church-goer who belonged to the a RW funddie church?

[kcass1954]

69. The GA killer fits the CCM stereotype...

You know - black, on trial for rape, disgruntled with the legal system...

[seabeyond]

2. the last couple years in fundamentalist organization

this is what i have learned. what i see being created. havent been as interested in the woman, but i have been watching the men

there is no reason for this man to have done what he did. he had been fed a violence, all our males are, in such a grossly low energy, negative way. the very worst of who we are as male. this male is what is being honored by the religious and by the right

reading a dobson book, focus on the family. read first couple pages, a letter to his older children. being a mama in love and smart, easily came to the insincerity.

third page out of letter comes to the description of man. and within the first, maybe second paragraph of description the say out loud, in prints and quotes

"man's man"....................wtf i say and put the book down. have been sitting with this the last four, five days.

[seabeyond]

3. lets remember the movie passion a year ago

kids still going to fundie school. i am hearing from them here and there passion,..........i start getting info off the web, the big to do of passion. watching it in real life, my kids and their school and this community and reading about it nation wide, threw me in such a tether two weeks in i went to boys school, just about out of control. sat with sons very fundie beautiful loving teacher, and said wtf

dont yawl even dare to feed my boys this crap

i saw a nazi propagandizing from the fundie leaders, as we were told of the beauty, another wtf

this did something to our men. along with war and hate of middle east, along with beat the female in your, torment rape murder that female in you,..........extending out to creating the whore of woman

been a very interesting trip for males the last year

[aquart]

6. I wish you'd write prose instead of poetry.

This stream of consciousness really obscures what you're trying to say. Which I'd actually like to get.

[seabeyond]

10. i do a really good dr suess in any tale i tell

can take any song and change the words to what i want to say to my children to teach them in fun and song.

when allowing spirit to do the talking, well here it is. then it works itself up to brain and i can say it more clearly.

i have learned this in a spiritual awakening around 2000, and progressed. i couldnt even tell you what a prose is anymore. i use to be the type of person so anal about grammar i took pride in having no green and red squiggleys in an email.

all i have are males in my life. i am the only female. lol lol. has been an interesting trip.

[donsu]

25. I understand your writing and enjoy your comments and style

and yes this religious crap is twisting brains

[notadmblnd]

26. Thanks for confirming.

I thought perhaps I hadn't had enough coffee. I was having difficulty understanding the poster too. I read the post each a couple of times and thought there was something wrong with me.

[seabeyond]

28. why does there have to be anything wrong with you or me? n/t

[notadmblnd]

29. confusion is sign of a possible stroke hon

My mind was totally muddled. I thought something was wrong, I'm sorry if I hurt you.

[seabeyond]

31. i dont take anything personally, had a giggle with the stroke

comment. at that age myself. i get quite a chuckle about it.

[tx_dem41]

33. Seabeyond is just very efficient with her word usage!

:-)

[bloom]

61. Read Ulysses lately?

Isn't Ulysses considered to be like the greatest novel or something.


I suppose if everybody wrote like that.... well - we'd be used to it.


Seems like it helps to go with the flow. Not expect/demand something be other than what it is.

[bobthedrummer]

4. He was living with his mother and sister in New Berlin.

Let's get Jungian now.

[seabeyond]

5. oh lordy

this is taking it to just sad. lots of sad people out there.

we could also go to how bush creates such a world for them, and religion of victim. in church they say pray pray to be forgiven, if you decry your sin, god with take care of you only if you are good enough in his judgement

the economy

the victim and not my fault and i get to be stupid mentality of white house.

i mean and then throw in those damn viagra commercials,..........damn males, i would be pissed if i were you. they all are so fucking with you

all you that just laugh at it all big thumbs up. my husband and two boys are kicking ass too

[bloom]

62. It messes with all of us

if the males buy into the nonsense - well - we live on the same planet.

Creates havoc for everybody.

[diamond14]

7. "He was upset about a sermon from church evangelist, roderick meredith"

Although there was no known motive, Frazier said the man believed responsible for the shootings, Terry Ratzmann, 44, of New Berlin, was suffering from depression and was upset about a taped sermon he had heard a couple of weeks before by one the church's chief evangelists, Roderick C. Meredith.

"He was always a peculiar guy," she said. "But I never pegged him for a murderer."



http://www.jsonline.com/news/wauk/mar05/309035.asp

[Warpy]

16. Well, that explains why all those sermons

on that church website were scrubbed back to November.

I'd wondered about that part.

As for this poor bastard, he's just an example of what I've been saying all along. Give people permission to hate, and they'll oblige. They just didn't seem to manage giving him the target they wanted.

[bobthedrummer]

22. I noticed that too when I went to the website, the weekly sermon was

a blank page when I visited yesterday shortly after the reports started coming in about this terrible shooting incident.

[postulater]

20. What?

[Toots]

8. He has the look of a "militaman"/"survivalist"

Grows his own vegis and everything. I would bet anything this man was scared to death of "Black People" and called himself a true Republican....

[tx_dem41]

9. Sooo, people that grow veggies are militamen/survivalists?

Wow, you learn something new everyday here on DU.

[seabeyond]

11. lol tx hi, in the panhandle of texas myself

with a texan all his life repug from midland. for a decade has grown his peppers and tomatoes and made us salsa. lol lol gun toten huntin, fishin, computer geek dude that voted for kerry. yep

we love our girlie man description, title.

[tx_dem41]

13. You better keep an eye on him, seabeyond!

You never know when those long-suppressed militaman/survivalist tendencies might break out! ;-)

[seabeyond]

17. actually the thoughts did go thru my head

why the conversation above. i thought this is just a dude. geez are all men here now, lol lol and flashed to hubby. but back to nahhhhhh he makes salsa for us, he is my girlie man. he protect me from that man.

[seabeyond]

27. hey btw

you know what this calif has learned with bush as president and the condition of u.s. on rights. i am damn glad my husband can shoot a gun, and hunt for food and knows how to survive. i dont have a clue. lol lol. last five years i have been valueing these skills more and more.

[bobthedrummer]

35. His website is about carnivorous plants, not vegetables.

He traveled a lot and took many pics of carnivorous plants. Check it out for yourself.
:eyes:

[tx_dem41]

36. Sounds like a killer....you had him pegged.

I travel a lot and I have what some might think are weird hobbies. Does that make me a killer?

BTW, I was responding to another poster who only mentioned veggies. So, check it out for yourself.

[bobthedrummer]

38. I don't know. Have you ever taken someone's life would be the question

to ask in that case, wouldn't it?

[tx_dem41]

41. No...the question to ask is why it appears obvious to you...

that having a hobby, traveling a lot, being unmarried, living with your mom and sis, and being a computer programmer makes you a suspect to be a serial killer.

[bobthedrummer]

43. I haven't a clue as to what you are talking about bringing up serial

killers, you have some of them in D/FW or something or do you just like the subject?

My remarks concern a 45 year old New Berlin male that shot a lot of people at a Living Church of God meeting near my old hometown of Milwaukee. I was born and raised around there so consider me an expert on the urban sociology there. But nothing about serial killers until you brought up that topic.

There's a lot of hysteria going around, hey?

[tx_dem41]

44. And paranoia, as well.

Quite a bit.

[bobthedrummer]

45. Just like the McCarthy witch-hunt era.

Just as planned.

[tx_dem41]

47. Agreed...

we need to go after all the people that travel a lot, have off-beat hobbies, are unmarried, live with their mom and sisters, and are computer programmers. Now that's a true witch-hunt. Inspired by post #30.

[bobthedrummer]

50. What specifically are you trying to say, tx_dem41?

That you like to get in the last word?

[leftofthedial]

46. and vice versa

they're also murderous repukes

I wonder if it matters what kinds of vegetables?

I favor squash, corn, beans, chilis and tomatoes.

[tx_dem41]

49. Oh..."squash"...

you're obviously a troll. C'mon don't be sooo obvious. :)

[leftofthedial]

66. you probably think the world was better off without squash

I, for one, am glad that we conquered the new world preemptively and made the world safe for squash eaters everywhere.

I think we should plant squash in courthouses and classrooms everywhere.

[tx_dem41]

67. Actually, I love squash...

in fact, I love all the vegetables/legumes you mentioned on the list. Just funnin' with ya'.

[Blue_In_AK]

57. I know...put that together with the "beautiful nature photographs"

in the post above, and y'all better be watching out for ME. I'm liable to go off on you at any minute.

[seabeyond]

58. hey if this dude plays a guitar, i am moving out of my house

and divorcing my husband. that is it.

[tx_dem41]

59. Note to self:

Keep a wary eye on Blue_In_AK. :-)

[Blue_In_AK]

64. Be afraid -- be very, VERY afraid... :-)

[leesa]

18. Most everyone grows veggies in Wisconsin, not unique

[Toucano]

12. Good detective work.

Thanks.

[lonestarnot]

14. First impressions are difficult to overcome...would not have wanted to

know this person on first impression. Has the appearance of someone I would not want to associate with for some peculiar reason.

[tx_dem41]

21. May I ask what on his website...

gives you this uneasy feeling. It looks like the website of some "hippie-type" liberal friends of mine, quite honestly.

[lonestarnot]

42. There is suppose to be a picture of him, didn't you see it? Him, he

makes me uneasy...his appearance..should say what was his appearance.

[lonestarnot]

15. Interesting find...thanks for your work. n/t

[leesa]

19. Maybe some of the disturbing behavior that is being generated in

these "churches" will finally be looked at. That might be the upside to this stuff.

[diamond14]

23. "We're not scaremongers" "We love our fellow MAN"

from the Living Church of God website....
http://www.livingcog.org /











THE GREAT FALSE PROPHET

Therefore, this second "Beast" of Revelation 13 is a man who appears to be like Christ—coming with a great show of piety, holiness and goodwill. But his message—when he speaks "like a dragon"—will be a cunning and cleverly deceiving message from Satan the Devil!

[ohio_liberal]

63. The "Beast" of Revelations quote...?

That was associated with the pic of the Pope? The website is loading so slow I can't navigate it.

[diamond14]

24. actually, bush* FUNDS this crap through his 'faith-based initiatives'

providing taxpayer FUNDING for bushite fundi-meetings at SHERATON HOTELS....

this isn't a work-your-way-up from an abandoned storefront....it's the SHERATON HOTEL....

[Judi Lynn]

52. That's a first, as far as I know. I've even been inside storefront fundie

churches. I've heard of OTHER churches opening their doors to congregations for off-day services, or services during other hours. I've heard of theaters, and God-only-knows what else REGULARLY making arrangements to share with church groups needing a space.

This one is a new wrinkle, isn't it? Thanks for posting those very seriously calculated photos. They definitely send messages to reinforce the intended point of view. Very, very strange.

Edited: spelling...

[tx_dem41]

53. There are many churches that meet in hotels ...

in DFW. Many aren't the fundie ones either. And, BTW, you can rent a small meeting room at a Sheraton (or any other hotel) for quite a reasonable rate. Especially during the winter in Wisconsin.

[Judi Lynn]

55. Thanks! Never knew..... n/t

[Flammable Materials]

68. The International Church of Christ rents high-end hotels as well.

They're also a flaky group.

[bobthedrummer]

30. In 2001 he went to Australia, and he was all over the map taking pics-

something is too weird about the carnivorous plant gathering, it's sounds spooky to me all that traveling, unmarried and living with mom and sister, computer programming...:wtf:

[seabeyond]

32. husband likes to travel and take pictures too, STOP it all

you are scaring me, lo lol

[bobthedrummer]

37. You should be scared, this is another Wisconsin Death Trip

media circus like Ed Gein and Jeffery Dahmer only now it's an end times fundie cult with ties to the RW involved. We really have some bizarre characters up here at times.

Senator Joseph McCarthy was from here. NSWPP (neo-nazi) Milwaukee mayoral candidate Art Jones got over 5,000 votes in the seventies. Milwaukee is the most physically racially segregated city in the Mid-West and yet it had two Socialist mayors.

Periodically Wisconsin goes on a Death Trip and this is one of them.
I'm not into the culture of death though.

[tx_dem41]

34. People have hobbies...

I'm not sure why people are finding this so "creepy".

But, then you have him pegged on "computer programming". Obviously the guy is weird. :eyes:

[Judi Lynn]

54. You'd think a man (or woman) would want more breathing space!

If for no other reason but to alter the childhood dynamics which would persist unbroken without changing the pattern.

You'd think he'd start feeling he was dying, living eternally under the eye and wing of his mom, with his sis, as if time itself had frozen.

[bpilgrim]

39. Carnivorous Plants!

creepy

peace

[Judi Lynn]

56. What would a carnivorous plant and a fly have in common

with a thwarted childhood resulting in the child unable to leave home and start his own life, but succumbing, instead to the protection of the parent, the security of old, known alliances at the loss of forging a competant, original, PERSONAL experience of life on his own.

I can't see any similarity, can you? Hmmmmmm.

[Judi Lynn]

40. Their highly esteemed leader was Herbert W. Armstrong.

There's a ton of reference to him on the internet, a lot is simply doctrine, and church info. for their followers, it seems, but this was a very controlling leader.

There's a website for their home schooling members:
http://www.coghomeschool.org/

This is a truly alarming entry:

Was Herbert W. Armstrong the Final Elijah?

HOLD FAST LETTER -March 2001


Dear Teachers in Training:


There are still those who honor Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong today, yet who remain unconvinced he was the prophesied end-time Elijah. Clearly, the Bible says such a man is to come, “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord” (Mal. 4:5). But was Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong the final Elijah, or should we look for another? Verse 6 of Malachi 4 defines the commission of the end-time Elijah as follows: “And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.” The word curse here can be translated utter destruction. Christ makes reference to such destruction in Matthew 24, and in so doing helps to explain the relationship between the fathers and children of Malachi 4. Please take note of Matthew 24:21-22, “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.” The “elect” here, of course, refers to the Christians whom God says He will protect throughout this terrible time because of their faithfulness (Rev. 3:10, Rev 17:14). The children of Malachi 4:6 include these elect Christians. The fathers are the righteous fathers of Israel: Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; but would also include those who have proved faithful to God in Old Testament times, such as Noah, David, and Daniel.


Since the fathers, in their time, repented and accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior, as will have end-time Christians, they will be united with the rest of the 144,000, mentioned in Revelation 14:1, 4, as the Firstfruits of God. Through resurrection and change to spirit, their hearts will be turned to each other. All must accept Christ as their personal Savior (Acts 4:12). Thus, all are united in Christ.


Now there was to be a type of Elijah, who was to precede the First Coming of Jesus. Christ declared that man to be John the Baptist. In Matthew 17, Christ's disciples wanted to know why the scribes said, “that Elias must come first.”
(snip)

Even though the great falling away of II Thessalonians 2 has happened, as prophesied, those who have held fast faithfully still retain those restored truths. We still have them, therefore we don't need another restorer to come. Elijah has come, and his name was Herbert W. Armstrong!
(snip/...)

http://www.gcww.org/herbert_w__armstrong_the_final_elijah.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I don't think it takes a genius to imagine how disoriented and lost these people would have to be by the time a cult could get a good hold on them and convince them that the church leader was described and foretold in a body of writing written well over 2 thousand years ago.

Here is a site you might find worth looking through:

http://www.herbertwarmstrong.com/pain.htm

It's described in this way:

A collection of Facts, Opinions
and Comments from survivors of Armstrongism
and The Worldwide Church of God.
This Page Last Updated 02/21/05 06:52 AM CST

A very provocative section (haven't had time to read it, yet)

"Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web"
by David Robinson
"About the Author" and "Foreword"

(Copyright (c)1980, quoted with permission.)

John Hadden Publishers
P.O. Box 35982
Tulsa, OK 74135
$20 which includes shipping.

Please mention that you are
responding from
The Painful Truth website.
Less than 50 copies remaining.
All proceeds go to David Robinson's widow.
(snip)

http://www.herbertwarmstrong.com/pain_exposed.htm

Here's more which is undoubtedly loaded:

Primary PT Sub-Pages

HWA and Worldwide Church of God Exposed

What About the Bible?

The Age of Reason

Acts of God

Alcoholism and the Worldwide Church of God

Suicide and the Worldwide Church of God

Recommended Books

411, Information Please New 3 Feb 05

Death Notices

Links

Personal Experiences/Article Index

You might have grown up in the WCG if . . .Updated 4 Feb 05

Garner Ted Armstrong and Geraldo Rivera Video Download

Stanley Rader on "Sixty Minutes" with Mike Wallace Audio download
(snip)

http://www.herbertwarmstrong.com/pain.htm

I haven't had time to look for references to Garner Ted Armstrong. He is the son of the founder. You might remember hearing his pompous, loud, condemnatory sermons on the radio! He got in some hellacious trouble of some kind. I didn't ever think to find out what it was, but apparently this was some horrid kind of organization. Looking forward to finding out more about it.

Hope those struggling in psychological bondage to these people will find the means to free themselves A.S.A.P.

Thanks to Flammable Material for the photo, the website, and comments, and for taking the initiative.

[Judi Lynn]

51. This may explain the organization was being run by charlatans...

From a link discussing some trouble befalling the son, himself a huge presence in this curch:

GTA was hunted down in Phoenix and handed a letter of notification. In less than an hour after this letter was given to GTA in Phoenix by the investigator, he was on the phone to Atty. Tim McCoy. It is described by the victims that they were told by the investigator that GTA exhibited scared behavior and tenseness of voice. When the investigator handed the notification to GTA, GTA asked, "What is this about?" The investigator responded with, "Mr. Armstrong, the only thing different between you and Jimmy Swaggart is that we have your butt on video."
(snip)

http://home.datawest.net/esn-recovery/artcls/gta_mas.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Garner Ted Armstrong
(Filed: 17/09/2003)

Garner Ted Armstrong, who died on Monday aged 73, was one of the most successful, but also the most controversial, of American television evangelists.

His folksy radio and television persona, combined with a huge investment in buying airtime, made him a household name in America. During the 1960s and 1970s, he was seen by an estimated 20 million Americans on television every week, and his radio show was transmitted to every continent on about 300 radio stations.

His energetic stance on the issues of the day is typified by recent articles posted on his website. These include: "Sodomite Elected As Bishop In Episcopal Church!" and "Won't It Be Wonderful, When Iraq Becomes Just like America?" He wrote dozens of articles and booklets arguing, among other things, that America and Britain had become the leading powers because the Anglo-Saxons were the true descendants of the tribes of Israel. He warned that a United States of Europe would challenge the United States and would fulfil the Biblical prophesy of "the Beast" which would fight Jesus Christ at His return.

The sanctity of the family was, naturally, a staple theme; and Armstrong specialised in highly charged sermons against our "decadent society", lambasting wife-swapping and adultery (including "spiritual adultery"), and demanding the enforcement of God's laws regarding sex. But his own sexual peccadilloes caused him to be suspended from the various churches he represented on three occasions, and led to a series of damaging scandals which undermined his ministry.
(snip/...)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/09/17/db1702.xml&sSheet=/portal/2003/09/17/ixportal.html

[amazona]

60. how sad, sounds like a great person in many ways

They mention that he was suffering from clinical depression, I would like to know if his prescription was recently changed and he had a bad reaction. This seems to be what happens in so many of these unexplained crimes, like Andrea Yates.

I photograph carnivorous plants and I can assure everyone at DU that I have never mass-murdered any church groups. Photography and plant chasing are pretty benign hobbies.

My heart goes out to the families of the lost and injured. It sounds like a terrible tragedy to all concerned.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72