bankruptcy bill, good social policy?

[Hamlette]

Seems the people who are complaining about the bankruptcy bill are the same people who say:

credit cards are ripping us off
we consume too much
we have become a greedy nation
corporations are in control.

If people couldn't get too much credit with the resulting too much debt,, and discharge in bankruptcy, maybe they wouldn't be buying so many SUVs. (or whatever

If you saw, as I do regularily, the debts people who are filing for bankruptcy have, you would be less offended by the bankruptcy bill. It appears, from my perspective, that the credit cards were not used "wisely". People obtained credit cards from several institutions, ran up the maximum and just defaulted. That is theft, and I'm not as sympthetic as most of you here are.

Yeah, some people will be hurt by this. I don't have the answer. But if this bill causes people to stop living beyond their means and putting it all on a credit card, we might return to a less greedy, less consumerest society.

My 2 cents.

[Nite Owl]

1. So then why did they

reject all the amendments that would protect people who had medical bills, the elderly and the troops who are out there fighting and risking their lives and losing pay? The bill was not specific, it was a gift to their donars.

[mirandaod]

2. I'd be slightly happier

if some of the loopholes for the rich had been closed - like being able to shelter assets in trusts, etc. Also, I'd be happier if there was some merciful exception left for military families whose breadwinner is on extended duty, or for medical emergencies.

We struggled our way out of debt a few years ago, and now only have one credit card, and pay the full balance every month. We keep ourselves out of trouble that way. But, we've been very, very lucky with health and work. Not everybody is.

[papau]

9. I totally agree-without asset in trust correction rich abuse of bankruptcy

will continue -

but that is not a GOP concern.

[Eric J in MN]

3. You didn't talk about the cost of medical emergencies. (nt)

nt

[Eric J in MN]

4. A judge can already rule against a person who was reckless (nt)

nt

[Warpy]

5. Alas, the studies contradict your anecdotes

and cite the two major reasons for bankruptcy to be unemployment and medical costs. Most people who file for medical bankruptcy (73%) had insurance at the beginning of their illness, but we all know that the insurance companies are in it for profit, not to cure sick people, and the people filing for bankruptcy protection either lost their insurance or had their copays mount up to the point of bankruptcy.

I have little sympathy for people who got credit cards in college and charged up a lifestyle of the rich and famous in their 20s and tried to get out from under in their early 30s by declaring bankruptcy. You're right, that's theft and abuse of the system, and something needed to be done about it.

However, the bill that passed had no provision for people who found themselves in need of bankruptcy protection for circumstances completely out of their control, and for this reason, it's a terrible crime against the people of this country that it passed.

[sandnsea]

6. "those people", ruining society again

:eyes: I swear to god, when will this country stop blaming the victims of corporate economics and start blaming the predators.

[kohodog]

7. There are no restraints on Banks now.

One example: A credit card with a $2300 balance. Over two years the person pays $2000, but due to interest fees, etc at the end of two years the balance is $2600.

The credit card companies should use some discression on who they offer credit to, and interest rates should be capped. I don't feel one bit sorry for the highest profit industry in the country who are abusing people with glee. I'd love to hear the tapes of some of their management meetings. I bet they are worse than the Enron tapes. How can anyone except a greedy cold hearted bastard think it's ok to charge ANYONE 30%+ interest? Bookies aren't that bad.

My wallet is much thinner today. Paid off three cards and cut 'em up.

[mirandaod]

12. pleeeeze, oh, pleeeeze

let there be some tapes and documents, and let there be a whistleblower who can get them out. Amen.

[Extend a Hand]

8. well...

This is another one of those "group" punishments-- All are punished for the misdeeds of a few.

The owners(shareholders) and directors of corporations are still allowed to escape personal responsibility for their financial obligations.

They get away with-- AWWWwww too bad we can't honour the pensions and health insurance obligations like we said...These "creditors" have no recourse.

Let's apply the same standards of personal responsibility to corporations.

[stellanoir]

10. Yet that's only part of the problem.

I've heard that bankruptcy is more often triggered by exorbitant medical bills and divorce than by onerous credit card debt alone.

I agree with your take on credit cards and people's greed and over consumption as a great problem in our society.

But yesterday, I got a bill from the local hospital's ER.

In January, my son had ingeniously slammed into a friend on the hockey court and split his upper eyelid. So I took him to the ER for stitches.

We waited around for a couple hours and then he saw the Doctor for far less than 5 minutes. The Doctor determined that he could glue the wound back together. I'd no clue that they now opt for glue over stitches with certain wounds.

I later learned that the glue they used is chemically identical to Krazy Glue. Though I'm sure the pharmaceutical companies charge oodles more for it under a different name.

The bill for 5 minutes of the Doctors' time and a tiny glob of Krazy Glue was. . . .get this. . . $978.00.

Thank goodness it was not more a serious injury but this is blatant robbery and total bull.

No wonder people go bankrupt with more serious injuries or chronic diseases.

The system is an absolute mess and this bill will not help those
in sincere need. It is punitive for those who are really suffering by no fault of their own and advantageous to corporate america.

IMHO

[PA Democrat]

11. Problem is that the minority of bankruptcies are due to credit card abuse

Why are we treating people who are deeply in debt due to misfortune the same as people whose debt is due to their own recklessness?

[against all enemies]

13. Yeah, you're right people shouldn't get sick and then get into debt. The

credit card companies should be able to bleed every last dollar from some sick, single mom. By the way, where's the koolaid at?

[UdoKier]

14. Funny you use the word "theft".

Most statistics say that most bankruptcies involve huge medical bills, not frivolous spending. Defaulting on debt because of inability to pay is not "theft".

Jacking up someone's APR to 20. 25, or 30%, plus a $35 overlimit fee because they went $1 over the limit is theft. The fees and penalties these companies charge can easily take a manageable debt and turn it into a life sentence.


And Card co's never issue a card without looking at a person's credit report. So why do they issue that fifth or sixth card to the guy who has all his cards already maxed out? Where is their responsibility in this? I agree that people shouldn't charge so much, but the zillionaires who own the card companies also have huge stock portfolios in industries that depend on Americans profligate spending on credit cards to turn a profit.

Most of these people who you judge so blithely are of the class that have seen their jobs shipped away, their prospects diminished and their real income stagnate for 20 years, even as the top quartile have seen their incomes skyrocket.

Increase the minimum wage, make the income tax progressive again, penalize companies that outsource overseas and Put a limit of 25% interest on consumer credit, and you will see improvements in their "responsiblity", big-time.

[Deja Q]

16. Thank you. Especially re: corporate responsibility (predatory lending)

Predatory lending and typical any-politician-bought-out thoughtlines; give corporations free reign and make everybody who needs them suffer.

And then you've got the twonks who drank the k00l-aid, blaming them on frivolous spending and all. With the job market and corporations (many of them banks) also offshoring to fire workers who likely use credit cards and have debts, this is unadultered evil.

I'm sick of the little man being persecuted. IT TAKES TWO TO TANGO and some people just don't understand that very simple fact.

[UdoKier]

17. I love how thye tell customers that all this stuff is...

"in the cardholder agreement". Yeah, it's in the 5 pages of 3 pt. type legalese. I'm a reasonably intelligent person, but I can't make head or tails of that crap. These people are evil.

[Deja Q]

15. Here's some wake-up music for you, I hope your radio is turned on:

How quickly do those people get all them credit cards (which banks have no qualms with doing) BECAUSE, DAMN IT, IT'S CALLED CORPORATE RESPONSIBILITY - something they need; not more free reign. They want to be predators and have no sense of ethics whatsoever. Corporate responsibility, and don't you forget it.)

I've been paying back for years and will continue to until I lose my job. There is no reason for my job to go, as I'm a good worker, unless they find a way to offshore or outsource it.

Please shove your spurious morality elsewhere, thank you. Your glib generalizations are as disgusting and prejudicial as those I make. The difference is, I admit I make generalizations and acknowledge they're not right. Can you?

Your 2 cents have been devalued byt he dollar's drop too...