What doesn't add up about shooting at car of journalist Sgrena?

[prolesunited]

My thoughts have switched gears on this a couple of times. At first, it seemed to be a set up and then I decided I was wearing my tinfoil hat too tight.

But, now, the facts don't seem to be adding up. The her account of events, the car that was shot is "lost," and now we hear Negroponte's people were involved.

So, what facts do we have in evidence? Where do they lead us? What was the motivation?

Your ideas and links would be appreciated. It's just not making sense to me yet.

[ewagner]

1. Where did you hear

about Negroponte's people being involved?

got a link?

That alone would cause me to reach for the tinfoil......

[prolesunited]

2. This morning

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050310/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_italy_hostage&cid=540&ncid=1480

- U.S. troops who mistakenly killed an Italian intelligence agent last week on the road to Baghdad's airport were part of extra security provided by the U.S. Army to protect U.S. Ambassador John Negroponte, a U.S. official said Thursday.

[madrchsod]

3. everyone in the car knew to much

about war crimes in Iraq. "they" wanted her dead but they missed,now they are doing their best to cover up the problem. there is confusion about this because of the very nature of the incident but what is really important is that the Italian people believe she was a target of the usa and now the thug that runs the country believes it too. no matter what the italians will believe the americans tried to kill everyone in that car. i put my money on the contractors or rummy`s private army..it wasn`t the cia.

[Name removed]

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[InternalDialogue]

5. Well, that settles that! n/t

[Kurovski]

18. LOL n/t

[slaveplanet]

8. It's not weird

If the target(Sgrena) is expendable , the driver is expendable , but the agents aren't to be touched ... It was a hit gone bad, and if they tried to finish them all off it would have made things worse , and they knew it , so they had to abort.

[Bridget Burke]

10. If there's a hitsquad--but there are regular forces around, as well....

The hitsquad only gets one chance. The other soldiers will try to do the right thing.

Every FUCKING one of the apologists here has said that the military ALWAYS gets their man. Where's Osama?

Oh--Berlusconi is another Bush crony. Most of his country hates him for it.

[DoYouEverWonder]

12. Bull, she probably looked dead

with that big Italian guy on top of hear with his brains splattered all over the place. Plus she was bleeding too. I'm sure whoever did it either didn't have a chance to finish the job or thought that she was dead too.

[slaveplanet]

6. go here

for some insight

http://wagnews.blogspot.com/2005/03/sgrena-hit-how-they-did-it-and-why.html

[mimitabby]

7. the car isnt' lost

it's somewhere in Italy. I posted links to the photos of it earlier this week.

[Name removed]

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[Bridget Burke]

11. So--the story is not dead.

Thanks for the assurance that somebody thinks this is a dangerous topic.

We'll continue to discuss it.

[forgethell]

13. This is

what makes me think it's a crock. The military is not inept. Some of its leaders are.

[fed_gov_eye]

14. Then

How could not not kill her after firing 300-400 bullets at the car? She states here it was a rain of bullets:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2005-03-05-iraq_x.htm?csp=34

Must be some inept shooters we have.

[forgethell]

15. Well,

I don't know if she has an agenda, or not. I'll just wait for the investigation's results. But here's the point: If they fired 300/400 bullets at the car, and didn't kill her, it's not because they were inept; it's because they weren't aiming at her. Use your brain, man. It's just not possible. This isn't a Rambo movie.

[fed_gov_eye]

16. Then part II

Who were they aiming for? Seems like a good waste of government funds to waste all that ammo on intimidation.

[mimitabby]

19. are you serious?

ammo appears to be the one thing plentiful in Iraq. Spent and unspent.

[Binka]

24. They Were Aiming For Calipari IMHO

My friend writes for the Socialist paper in Catania (we are in Sicily) and Calipari has some major enemies in the Mafia. He worked some heavy shit involving heroin from Afghanistan a few years back and he has been the chief negotiator in the last three or four hostage situations in Iraq. There is talk here about drugs instead of ransom money, you know give the Iraqis a chance to practice democracy with a bit of entrepreneurship sell the drugs and grow the profits, whatever, but if these drugs were Mafia drugs well you get the picture. Nicola Calipari was a much more powerful and influential man than the US or Italian media are saying. The Mafia is a major reason Berlu sits in the seat of power here in Italy.

Some say Berlu set him up because he KNEW way too much and the entire thing with Guiliana was a set up from the beginning, yes I am talking about the kidnapping as an inside job, and the focus on Guilana is a red herring to keep the heat off Caliparis death.

If you believe that the US did in fact get their man. I kinda do but hey that's just me.

edit: This was meant in response to #16.

[slaveplanet]

25. Is Calipari

a Jesuit? just wondering....

[Binka]

28. His MF Brother Is A Priest At The VATICAN

I don't know about Nicola I'll check. Are you making an Opus Dei connection?

[slaveplanet]

32. something along those

lines. Faux news played down the funeral bigtime. I suspect not everyone gets a State funeral when they are taken out. Please check for me...thanks

[forgethell]

29. My guess would be

the engine block. But I don't know. That's why I willing to wait for the investigation.

However, I have serious, serious doubts that the government set her up to be shot, or any body else. Too many people would have to know. You know what they say, "Three people can keep a secret, if two of them are dead". Sometimes, even that's not enough.

These conspiracy theories keep us from thinking about the real problems and real solutions. WE are not going to take Bush down before his term ends. We missed our shot. We need to think about 2008.

[2diagnosis]

33. 300-400 warning shots? nt

[Name removed]

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[2diagnosis]

34. Your on to something here,

Sgrena and the Iraqi insurgents both say that the Americans wanted her dead. That's good enough for me, she has no reason to lie.

[Name removed]

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[2diagnosis]

38. what scenario could be characterized as

"in the middle'?

[slaveplanet]

20. Take a look

at the well placed shots , in my link in reply #6, They are anything but inept, and could only be placed in those tires if the shooter(s) was at the side of the road. not head on.

[leftchick]

30. they were negroponte's shooters....

still in training... :eyes:

[Binka]

21. The Car Is Not Here .......I Am In Italy BTW

The photos you posted were taken from La Reppublica newspaper but they were lifted from RAI TG1 (remember you said to another poster you didn't know what that was) I pointed out what RAI TG1 was in a later post, it is Berlu's TV station. It is a propaganda circus and Berlu's private TOKYO ROSE. Those photos are of the vehicle Guiliana was KIDNAPPED in NOT photos of the vehicle she was ambushed in. The vehicle in question is STILL MISSING.

This is a game of smoke and mirrors being played out by Berlu and his media whore minions. Berlu is lying at the behest of his buddy George while the fucktards in the Pentagon decide how to rectify this amazingly sloppy FUBAR assassination.

[slaveplanet]

22. what about this one

[mimitabby]

23. wow

Binka, that's pretty interesting, but this car is not the same one that the freepers were showing (with the crashed front end) the other day.
The case in the Corriere news paper made it seem quite plausible
that this was the right car.
If it isn't, all the more interesting. Please keep us posted.
I can only read the papers (Repubblica and Corriere) for info
and the fact is, even Silvio disagrees with the american story..

[Ms. Clio]

36. The car that the freepers were showing

was damaged in the incident, and belonged to an Iraqi man.



The Yahoo photo caption says:

An Iraqi driver stands near his damaged vehicle at the site of the kidnapping of an Italian journalist outside al-Nahrain University in central Baghdad, February 4, 2005.... Gunmen pulled up alongside her vehicle, forced her driver and an Iraqi journalist with her out of the vehicle at gunpoint and then drove off with Sgrena, the sources said.

http://wagnews.blogspot.com/2005/03/right-wing-bloggers-fake-sgrena-car.html

[prolesunited]

31. Thanks for the interesting insight

Keep us posted and thanks for the info on the cars. It does clear up some confusion.

[Ms. Clio]

37. Binka, do you think the car looks like the one in this photo?

From this site:

http://archive.wn.com/2005/02/08/1400/p/36/131561506a8507.html

[walldude]

39. All reports I've heard said the car was an SUV... n/t

[Ms. Clio]

40. If that is the case, then the vehicle in the La Repubblica photos

must be the kidnap car, as Binka states. I was wondering if this was another shot of the kidnap car, and if it matched the other photos in the La Repubblica photo gallery. It's hard to tell, because the car is cut in half in this shot, but the tires look different, so I don't know what this vehicle is either.

This whole thing sure stinks, though.

[JohnyCanuck]

26. The Sgrena Hit:

Just found this posted in the GD Politics forum.

The Sgrena Hit:
How They Did It, and Why

Evidence of a Precision Ambush

by Fintan Dunne, Editor
BreakForNews.com March 9th, 2005

By combining photo evidence and eyewitness accounts of the Baghdad airport shooting in which Sgrena Guiliani was wounded and Nicola Calipari killed, a compelling picture of a precision ambush emerges.

This analysis is sharpened by also considering the operational constraints upon any planned assassination of the troublesome Italian reporter. Such a killing would have to be palusibly deniable as a "mishap" and would have to avoid the slaughter of three intelligence agents in the vehicle.

That partly explains why Sgrena is still alive. A full-on salvo for a heavy calibre weapon would have left nobody alive in the vehicle. But, while slaying a political journalist is one thing -murdering three intelligence officers of a friendly nation in the process was never going to be an option.


But, the alternative was eminently feasible. It would be possible to selectively target Sgrena inside the vehicle, because the planners would know exactly where she would be seated. Assuming any half-competency in intelligence gathering, it was known the occupants would be an Iraqi driver, three intelligence agents and the target: Guiliana Sgrena.


http://wagnews.blogspot.com/2005/03/sgrena-hit-how-they-did-it-and-why.html

[bloom]

27. See this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1651147#1651170


It puts a lot of the pieces together.