Ward Churchill is a dick.

[NightOwwl]

Just saw him on Bill Maher. If you are going to express a controversial and (IMO) hateful opionion, you better damned well be prepared to defend your point of view. What a disgusting, distasteful man.

Maher asked him explain the connection between the workers at the Trade Center to the "Little Eichmann's" referenced in his comment. Now, I may not agree with what he said, but I'm willing to listen to how he came to the conclusion that there was a connection between the two.

Well, he did not come off very well (to say the least.) He kept his head down, never made eye contact with the audience, and failed to provide a lucid explanation. Bill Maher tried to get him to focus, but he couldn't complete a sentence. He agreed to be on the show, yet he was unprepared, which leads me to believe didn't think the audience was worthy of an explanation.

[Spider Jerusalem]

1. ...

[libodem]

4. OMG

That is so profound!

[Spider Jerusalem]

5. It was only a subject line...

which became obsolete after the original poster corrected HIS subject line...

[Just Me]

21. 1600 Pennsylvania Ave houses the worst anti-Americanism ever. n/t

[Liberal In Texas]

14. Couldn't have said it better myself.

You have a knack for words.

Keep posting....those dots are so, just, what can I say, minimalist.

[2diagnosis]

2. example, link, quote,

something?

[coloradodem2005]

3. Talk about your divided opinions.

[Spinzonner]

6. So was Nixon

(SNL skit joke)

[kennyg315]

7. Ward Churchill is a dick

While I agree that he was not very impressive on Maher tonight, I have to disagree that this characterizes Churchill in a general sense. I saw him on CSPAN a couple of weeks ago, in a press conference that he gave at the university immediately following the fall out. He was very articulate and soundly defended his position (that has been taken completely out of context). He merely made the point that to label the attacks on the WTC as "senseless" as our pathetic media has done, is to completely miss the point that we were attacked for a reason. While most of us would not hasten to call any reason unjustified (myself included)there was nonetheless a reason for it. He also did a good job of demonstrating how American imperialism and corporate greed have a consequence, in the world (they hate us). I think he could have made that point in a less controversial and offensive manner, but in general I DO agree with the point: if we continue to allow our corporate owned government to suck the blood of the rest of the world in the imperial quest for ever more resources/profits, we should not be surprised that our citizens are more and more in the cross hairs.

[NightOwwl]

8. I agree the attack was not senseless...

and it was in response to government policies that had been in place for many years. It had nothing to do with "hating our freedoms." Even so, I still think the workers in the Trade Center were innocent victims in all of this.

[Jonathan_Hoag]

16. His quote was not taken out of context

The only change he provided in his "explanation" was that he exempted janitors and others with menial jobs from the comparison. Big whooping change.

Look at another quote:
"When I started out it was “U.S. out of Vietnam,” and then that was changed and it became “U.S. out of Indochina,” and then it became “U.S. out of Southern Africa,” and it was “U.S. out of the Caribbean and Central America,” and then it became “U.S. out of the Persian Gulf.” I agreed with every one of those, but ultimately there’s only one way that any of them will be possible and that is: US out of North America, U.S. off the planet, and take Canada with you when you go!"
http://auto_sol.tao.ca/node/view/817

Is that taken out of context too?

Churchill encouraging his students to comit terrorist acts:
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/001588.htm

Again, what posisble contxt can make that an ok statement?

[kennyg315]

17. Re His quote was not taken out of context

I certainly never suggested that Churchill didn't point the finger of blame (for the hatred of Americans), at the policies of our government in it's protection of corporate greed. So your post misses the point entirely that I was making. Churchill has been INTENTIONALLY taken out of context by right wing pundits when they reduce the meaning of his essay to mean that he simply called the individuals who perished in the World Trade Center "Little Eeichmans."

If one has ACTUALLY read the essay, they will see that there is far more to it than merely calling "technocrats" names. The essay reflects Churchill's views that the terrorist attack against the WTC and Pentagon were retaliation against America for what he views as centuries of genocide carried out against peoples (mainly browned skinned or Asian) on multiple continents. His argument is reasoned out and he presents a rationale for his conclusions. He makes the point that just as the German PEOPLE were blamed for their refussal to stop Hitler's death machine, so too are the American people responsbile for the actions of it's government towards the world's people over the past 300 years.

We may not agree with Churchill? On the one hand, I'm not certain that I agree that the German people were able to stop Hitler. Once they realized his true maniachial goals, were they not also impotent to stop him? What if though, they had stopped him at the BGINNING when he espoused hatred for Jews and others that were "different" from the "mainstream" in Germany (sound familiar)? Viewed in this light, I am not as likely to give the German people a pass. NOR, am I likely to give one to our own people for the years of "collateral damage" that has been inflicted against millions upon millions of innocent victims of our war machine. Honesty requires that I consider that Churchill's Native American ancestry may have influenced his perspective in such a manner as to render him biased and bitter. Is he not entitled to such resentment, when one considers what the American "settlers" did to his people?

Ultimately, his essay has generated considerable argument and for some us, introspection. To simply trivialize it to calling 9/11 victims perjoratives is dishonest, or perhaps more accurately, an act of denial. One thing is certain to me, we as Americans are grossly out of touch with the peoples of the world, and how the actions of the government who acts in OUR name effects them.

[Jonathan_Hoag]

29. I have read the essay

And I have read it way before the current brou-hah-hah over it. I have also read, or rather suffered through, some of his other writings. In his writings he blatantly exposes his utter hatred for Western World in general and USA in particular.

His quote has not been taken out of context and your explanation underscores it. He welcomed these terrorist attacks because he openly hates US and is hoping for more. He is even encouraging his students to comitt them.

ALso note that Churchill's "Native American ancestry" that you invokeis very spurious indeed. Even if his claims are true he only has 3/16 Indian blood. That means that 13/16 is settler blood. So what did settlers did to "his people" again?

[newyawker99]

18. Hi kennyg315!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[AP]

19. So Ward isn't a dick.

Nobody is a dick for having an opinon and not making eye contact while defending it.

What the OP here is really not explaining is what Ward's defense was. Your post explains it. It's hard to conclude from reading your post that Ward is a dick.

[Just Me]

23. "American imperialism and corporate greed have a consequence,..."

Yes, they do. Well-stated!!!

Welcome to DU!! :hi:

I'm glad you're here.

[Andromeda]

9. He didn't impress me either.

He just kind of mumbled and looked down, only raising his eyes once or twice.

Maybe in a different forum he'd have more to say but I didn't gain any insight at all to the man.

[BlueEyedSon]

10. My guess is that Churchill & the 9/11 survivor guy had a a little

"discussion" backstage.

Yes, Churchill seemed very distracted, unfocused and shook up. The 9/11 guy seemed agitated and on the brink of tears. It made them both very poor interview guests.

For me, what would have nailed his case was if Churchill had said "well, Eichmann did not think he was doing evil, either" (that was basically the 9/11 guy's defense of the elite capitalist tenants of the WTC).

For anyone who watched PBS' "NOW" earlier, with John Perkins (author of "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man: How the U.S. Uses Globalization to Cheat Poor Countries Out of Trillions"), the connection between the millions made by US-based global capitalists at the top of the monetary food chain, US foreign policy, and the suffering it causes around the world is clear.

Asking "why do they hate us?" is not unpatriotic or treason. It is compassionate. It is practical. It is a small step toward understanding (and perhaps influencing) how US government and corporate power projects itself overseas. Most Americans don't know, or care. Although, with the current state of the "news" media and government secrecy it's not really surprising.

[TyeDye75]

11. I agree but

there are bigger dicks to fry than some nut job professor

[Frederik]

12. Dick Cheney comes to mind

[NightOwwl]

13. Most certainly.

He just happened to be in the frying pan at the moment. He'll be forgotten by tomorrow morning, unlike Bush and the other war-mongers.

[no_hypocrisy]

15. Ironic. Bill Maher took the heat and defended himself when he

made the comment that the 9-11 hijackers had the guts to fly the planes into the World Trade Center. That was inflammatory and it was the way he really felt. He could articulate his sentiments. It's a shame that Churchill could not have done the equivalent.

[AP]

20. Good point. Maher said something similarly inflamatory, but people...

...want Ward to lose his 60K/year job, and nobody is complaining that Maher should lose his job, which reaches many many more people than Ward does.

[justgamma]

26. Maher did lose his job at ABC.

They canceled him shortly after those remarks.

[AP]

27. I'm talking about DU'ers--liberals. People here were outraged about Maher

losing that job and cheered when HBO picked him up.

[bpilgrim]

28. excellent point

:toast:

remember them surveys of the HS kids in america where they wanted restrictions and eliminations of free speech imposed by the WH :scared:

peace

[bpilgrim]

22. yeah, if an academic can't compete on a variety show hosted by a comedian

they must be lying or worse :crazy:

peace

[Cocoa]

24. from what little I know of him, I agree

I saw him on C-span speaking in front of an audience of students, and found him completely unconvincing.

I'd been thinking of looking up his book to see the context of his remarks, but after seeing that event, I thought there was probably nothing useful to be gotten from his writings.

[bvar22]

25. Churchill reminded me of myself...

...when someone wakes me from a sound sleep at 4:AM....unable to communicate. It was painful to watch.
Bill Maher DID show his considerable skills in keeping this interview alive (though I feared it would dissolve into a Jerry Springer type embarrassment).

This topic needs examination and discussion in the National Dialog, but it appears that those who fear the truth will be able to close the door on this one, so the monster will remain in the basement.

All Churchill had to do was minimize the "little eichman" statement with a non-apology (I might have been a little hyperbolic there, but you sometimes have to shock people to wake them).

Churchill has made some VALID and NECESSARY points that NEED to be examined!
Does everybody think it was just an accident that these people chose the WORLD TRADE Center to attack??? TWICE????
Are the bureaucrats and accountants working for the predatory Global Corporations
as guilty as the minor German bureaucrats who enabled the 3rd Reich?
I don't think so, but this question needs to be asked!

The Bill Maher Show was preceded by NOW which featured an interview with the author of "Confessions of an Economic Hitman"(John Perkins) where he describes the predatory nature of the World Bank and Global Trade organizations. If you are struggling with Churchill's message, I suggest that you watch the replay of NOW. The connection between Global Capitalism and Why these people HATE US will become clear.